loonodingle

I think someone is a Bait NOT a Gait expert... slip of the keyboard hey.

But Mr Hall told the court that the examination by the Norfolk coroner discovered .......... (REMOVED) contradicting the contents of the Thai pathologists report conducted immediately after her death.

The prosecution has alleged that her injuries are consistent ......... (REMOVED)

So whats the deal? Gunshot???

The deal is to imply a lot by saying a little.

My guess is that the very initial pathologist reports did not clearly state rape had been committed but subsequently it did, so it appears Mr. Hall is doing a bit of cherrypicking here.

No Wrong. The Thai pathologist said she was subjected to anal rape but no evidence found to substantiate this. No trace of semen and no injury

And the moon is made of Marsh Mellow.

I have yet to see this "the defendants have a case to answer to" as NOTHING presented by the prosecution was anywhere near convincing enough to obtain a conviction anywhere , well perhaps apart from Thailand !!

The witnesses on both sides were more character references, no disrespect to the outstanding work Andy Hall does, but really what was the point in him being a defence "witness" he wasn't there and wasn't involved with the crime.

Same with several prosecution witnesses!! To say this trial has been bizarre is an understatement!! To say the investigation was thorough and well presented is anything but.

To say the RTP have been honest and sincere and factually correct with their investigation is an out and out falacy zippy and bungle from rainbow have more credibility!! And yet still couple of posters believe this has been the perfect case... I must be confused as this has been far from perfect not even close, not even 10% complete, a travesty really, the victims families must be wondering what the fexk is going on!!

... no disrespect to the outstanding work Andy Hall does, but really what was the point in him being a defence "witness" he wasn't there and wasn't involved with the crime.

I think he could give relevant information on one point. He has been involved with the work of human rights organizations documenting the many complaints of mistreatment of Burmese on Koh Tao at the point the local police there were working to create scapegoats. The fact that so many other Burmese were alleging torture at the same time adds weight to the Burmese kids' claims. Whether the confessions were freely given is still relevant, even when we know events cannot have transpired in the way those confessions described.

I can tell you that without his input those young men would be dead and buried already.

Easy to track her mates down, I'll go find them if you lot chip in for my flight

I already provided there address's to Andy Hall. Thats how they knew the police had already been Interviewed Informally

I thought the great Pm was a man to elimate corruption and protect the innocent ?

Maybe so although they have declared that the eevidence is not valid and there still going on with there Thai cowboy trial

Hey the dirty Thai that did it is laughing and probably has prior sexual crimes or assault charges

How do you feel police officer good... Remember god will not forget you son... There is no shining light for you and Buddha will not assist you... Tell the truth clean your soul before the fire takes you

He already told us how can u be safe in a bikini.. So you know his mind set.

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what uthe court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

Yes all ears do you have anything inbetween?

Back with the insults again are we?

I thnk they are giving you an opportunity to make yourself look educated GB. You not helping your cause though.

There are things about this case you seem to be forgetting. For example full confessions of both the accused after their DNA from a Cigarette Butt matched that of what was found inside of Hannah. Then when their DNA was taken separately and it to matched with Hannah. How odd and strange it is for me to think that 2 accused are questioned in 2 separate locations yet there stories match identically. Agreeing on what Win did on that night in question and also what Lin did.

Then when asked what happened to David Miller's Mobile Phone one of the accused said he found it in David Miller's pants pocket and gave it to a friend to hold. When this friend was questioned, sure enough he had it. He said he became suspicious of it so he destroyed it and threw it behind his living quarters, and where it was found by Police. A Mobile Phone that was surely worth something at least.

Then by their own admission you have the 2 accused on the beach very near the crime scene at or near the time of the murders. Both without alibi's except each other. Both admitting to drinking alcohol their at intoxicating levels. So what the Prosecution starts out with is 2 full Confessions, DNA evidence matching the accused to Hannah, a Mobile Phone that the accused confessed in taking form David Miller's Pants Pocket and giving to a friend, both having the opportunity to commit this crime as both admitted to being on the beach at or near the time of the rape and murder, both without alibis except from each other, and a motive, after the discovery of Hannah being raped before she was murdered.

All is quiet for near a week even after a visit from the Legal Counsel and members of the Myanmar Embassy but this Media attention has brought out some high profile Defense Team willing to work pro-bono. Then suddenly everything changes. This confessions become forced confession under torture, when nobody has come forward and admitted any such occurrence. The Translator was not competent and yet the 2 accused fully understood they signed a confession. That they did not understand that they signed permission to collect DNA Sample from them when a simple visit to the Justice of the Peace would have forced them to anyway, even if they had to be tied to a chair.

Then this Mobile Phone they first admitted getting from David Miller's Pant Pocket changes to, It becomes a Mobile Phone they found on the beach that night, in the dark, when they admitted they didn't see anyone else their. The witness changed his testimony to. He no longer destroyed it and got rid of it because he became suspicious of it, he now destroyed it and got rid of it because it didn't work. Who would destroy and expensive Mobile Phone given to him by a friend to hold, and without their permission I will never know.

Even the clothes and shoe(s) found at the crime scene that didn't belong to Hannah or David and that the accused said they were never their. They knew that this would be surely be tested for DNA, but that didn't matter as they already had an explanation for that to. They went swimming and although they did not see anyone, their clothes and shoes were stolen. So if the DNA turned out to be theirs well, the murderers must have planted them their to accuse them. For two guys with very little to next to none formal education, they sure got their ducks in a row in a hurry.

How many more times are people going to continue making this false statement that everything is lost. Just a couple of weeks ago almost everyone here was claiming that Hannah's clothes was lost. Then Dr. Pornthip questions why her clothes weren't DNA Tested. The clothes everyone said was missing. She also question why the blood in the sand wasn't tested either. Little did she know at this time that a few weeks earlier the Defense Lawyer was happy they could get this sandy blood for retesting. How can you retest something that was never tested before? How would you know any of this if there was no documentation on this DNA, which everyone keeps saying it doesn't exist?

Then you have the hoe. Dr. Pornthip's Lab finding DNA on this hoe, which was known to have been moved from the crime scene, and in which anyone could have touched it afterwards, saying they found DNA on it. Then alleged by the Media Dr. Pornthip telling the Police they need to get to the bottom of who these people are. Since when does the Forensic Expert tell the Police in any country how to handle an investigation?

But no need to do that as the Defense quickly found out or knew who's DNA it was anyway. The Forensic Lab guy, working for Dr. Pornthip claims it belongs to Hannah and David. Go Figure? Just another one of those strange coincidences. How they got Hannah's DNA and also Davids remains a mystery which the media doesn't seem to want to find out.

Which brings me to my last point in all this DNA from the Prosecution that many claim was tainted, destroyed, corrupt, lost, not documented, and so on. I don't think anyone here knows for sure what is left. We do know from the Prosecution Forensic Team said that all DNA was Replicated. Now this will draw many to explain this in over 1,000 Words why this is no damned good, but I only have One Logical question concerning this.

If Replicated DNA is no damned good then why do Forensic Labs Replicate it in the first place? Surely, if it can't be used again as many claim, they would not bother with this. But then from people who think that the entire Police Force from the Lowest Man on the street to the Highest General, and the entire Forensic Lab, would all lie and put to innocent men to their death for no good reason, what would you expect.

I hope you read that last link here from this case in which the Media say (by-the-way) even with David and Hannah's DNA on the hoe, surely David couldn't have done this otherwise he would be a suspect. Right! Then people here have the nerve to call me Defender of the RTP and that you stand up here for justice for Hannah and David.

Yeah! I am sure you all think you do. .

My opinion. Garbage.

I couldn't even bring myself to read it Stephen....

I block him and AleG, but when they are quoted their post is visible, but this one was so full of bullshit that I just partially read it, I wanted to answer it point by point, to not let mistakes and lies like that unanswered, but I gave up and now the post is far... unless we quote it, then it resurfaces, which we just did.... Three times in a row...

I seem to have missed the info about the coroner report given to GB was it a private message (if so, could I get it too?) or public on this thread, strange that it didn't create any discussion.

Don't feel bad Fab99 as I never got that either.

Just another rumor started here by the regulars.

Do u believe the rubbish you write. Have you no scruples.

You spouted off the coroner had broken the law etc etc she shoukd be this and that. So Madaussie suggested yiu write to her to find out whats going on. You refused so he wrote to her and pasted the letter and reply. Fab just couldn't be bothered to read backwards in the thread.

I'm thinking if the prosecution is going to keep dickin around and not release full documentation for a clear and open analysis by the defense...it might be about time to reveal that coroner's report from the UK. It seems like the prosecution are in the final 10 seconds of a basketball game...they have the ball and are passing it around to run out the clock.

Sounds like a good idea but apparently the UK agreed with Thailand that the report would not be made public,, so we will never know what is in it. All we know from the UK press is that the forensic team in the UK have some "serious" issues about the Thai pathologist report and that they felt it was their duty to present to the court in Thailand.

It was definitely suggested it would help the case of the defence, but we will probably never know.

I know some of it but was scolded for mentioning maybe this and maybe that.. So I deleted it. It will come out in the inquest anyway. They cant keep it quiet forever. Freedoms in the UK allow people to know the truth at some point.

People in the UK should be furnished with the truth now, not some point in the future. If I was planning on a holiday to Koh Tao I would want to be reassured by the UK Government that they had done everything possible in their power to ensure that they were 100% confident that the evil people that committed the horrendous crimes on their citizens only a year ago were not still free to repeat their deeds. What benefit is it to anyone to withhold such vital information?

Why, business interests between the two countries of course! Why do you think the UK Police went over, did nuthin and then went back and told the families all was well with the investigation. And they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so!!

I think I read 160 million pounds of weapons inmlast few years and they also need the RTP on their side to pick up UK criminals. Its about u scratch by back and will scratch yours.

Coroners Response

-------- Original message --------

From: Norfolk Coroner

Date:23/09/2015 13:56 (GMT+00:00)

To: ------------

Subject: RE: Hannah Witheridge

Dear ------------------

I must advise that evidence which is relevant to the inquest will be heard at the inquest and at present. A date for the inquest has not yet been fixed, but the matter will be reviewed briefly on 15 October 2015, when the Coroner will decide whether a date can/should then be fixed for inquest.

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Tracey

Tracey Mills-Phillips

Coroners Support Officer

Norfolk Coroners Office

01603 663302

Thefe u go Crabby.

Thank you -- and as per the document I posted earlier, from the above response --

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Well your proven correct then. At least they responded in a short while. Will be interesting to see how much evidence is released.

Coroners Response

-------- Original message --------

From: Norfolk Coroner

Date:23/09/2015 13:56 (GMT+00:00)

To: ------------

Subject: RE: Hannah Witheridge

Dear ------------------

I must advise that evidence which is relevant to the inquest will be heard at the inquest and at present. A date for the inquest has not yet been fixed, but the matter will be reviewed briefly on 15 October 2015, when the Coroner will decide whether a date can/should then be fixed for inquest.

The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to inquest proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Tracey

Tracey Mills-Phillips

Coroners Support Officer

Norfolk Coroners Office

01603 663302

Thefe u go Crabby.

I am waiting for the explanation of how David was killed with a hoe without getting any of his blood on it.

Damn good point

A new investigation under that scenario will probably a dead end, there will be no DNA evidence (hypothetically having already been discredited), it will be a very empty slate that, as you mention, would only please the alternative theory crowd because they'll have an empty canvass on which to draw their own ideas.

It's been a year since the murders, the alternative crowd has produced exactly zero evidence to support a case against anyone else and that is not bound to change, regardless of the outcome of the case; the only real evidence available is the one that the police has assembled. By taking the knee jerk and prejudiced stance of completely discrediting the RTP work the end result will be, as I mentioned before, that the baby is going to go out with the bath water.

This not about pleasing one crowd or another, its about justice for the victims and their families.

There are serious issues with the case put forward by the prosecution that do not, in my opinion prove that they are guilty beyond reasonable doubt. There are claims of purgery which seem well founded by a police officer, missing paperwork and what seem to be obstacles put in the way of the defence (why only 6 days to present defence in comparison the the prosecutions 12 days?)

What I want to see is either the prosecution answer the questions and put to bed all of the doubts, therefore proving the B2 guilt OR the defence squashing the prosecutions case because it is simply unproven and untrue.

You seem to be completely oblivious to the problems with the prosecutions case. The fact is Neither you or I know for sure, but I will try and keep an open mind and see what happens whilst you blindly ignore the huge elephants in the room.

I'm well aware of the problems with the prosecution, also that the coverage of the proceedings have been overwhelmingly biased in favour of the defense.

It's just those problems are only peripheral to my main reasons to believe there is a case against the two defendants.

The prime DNA evidence has gone uncontested in regards to the actual validity of the results and as far as I have seen the suspicious actions and circumstances of the defendants on the day of the murders and afterwards have also not been cleared up.

Very hard to contest something when its used up or lost wouldn't you say.. Very convenient I must say.

No, it's exactly the same as before; the prosecution never claimed DNA from the defendants was found on the hoe. The only thing that has come from the independent testing of it is that it was, indeed, the murder weapon; so nothing new.

Meanwhile the actual DNA evidence the prosecution is basing their case on is being contested only indirectly by trying to discredit the process that yielded the results, instead of the actual results themselves; which I don't think carries much weight because it's not possible to by mistake or accident arrive at two DNA profiles matching the defendants.

The only thing that would produce a match is a deliberate faking of the results after the two defendants were arrested, and until they can provide any sort of evidence for such thing, IMO, the DNA evidence still stands.

OK but how do you explain her DNA on the handle?

This is new

Maybe she fended off one blow and skin cells attached to the handle, maybe she didn't and she was simply hit by the handle in addition to the head of the hoe, maybe she grabbed it when being attacked, maybe it was used to restrain her and pressed against her body, maybe it was left over her body for some time, plenty of possible explanations.

Thats alot of maybe's for you AleG.

Maybe you would have expected the B2 DNA to be on the weapon. Oh know you told us last week it had been washed off. My apologies I just remembered.

the scene is looking different

No, it's exactly the same as before; the prosecution never claimed DNA from the defendants was found on the hoe. The only thing that has come from the independent testing of it is that it was, indeed, the murder weapon; so nothing new.

Meanwhile the actual DNA evidence the prosecution is basing their case on is being contested only indirectly by trying to discredit the process that yielded the results, instead of the actual results themselves; which I don't think carries much weight because it's not possible to by mistake or accident arrive at two DNA profiles matching the defendants.

The only thing that would produce a match is a deliberate faking of the results after the two defendants were arrested, and until they can provide any sort of evidence for such thing, IMO, the DNA evidence still stands.

I Guess if u r using the 25 percent threshold as convincing to convict the B2 then your story holds water. Like a colander.

Probably about time we went into recess hey mods... next date is the 22nd September.

Some people need to jump of the merry go round.

Per my calculation K. Loon the silence lasted 1 hour and 45 minutes.

I know some people have no respect.

Probably about time we went into recess hey mods... next date is the 22nd September.

Some people need to jump of the merry go round.

Perhaps as around this time 1 year Hannah and David passed on from this world we should all be respectful and honour them as decent people who brought joy to their families and friends. Both of them were working towards a career and had taken time out for a break and some fun and sun in Thailand.

Hannah was at University training to be a speech therapist, tragically she has no voice to speak now but we can speak out for her. To seek justice and to bring pressure to ensure that the law doesnt give up and finds the killers. They deserve the ultimate punishment for their wicked crime.

Lets make a promise to ensure justice is served and today have some extra respect in their memory.

Today isn't a day for bickering over evidence and opinions. But a day to remember David and Hannah.

May they Rest In Peace...

"The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroners report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration."

Well I hope that crucial evidence like this will be made public if these poor guys are locked up.

Ohhh it will all come out. Dont forget the inquest will take place in the UK for David and Hannah. Its public and they cant hide facts so no matter what it WILL be Public Knowledge.

There just holding back until the 22nd Sept and more specialist from the Thai Forensic Institute carryon their evidence. Its not over with Pornthip. Rather she was the warm up act.

Thumbs up for Dr Pornthip, looks like a typical loony scientist but proved her honesty, technical skills, knowledge and impartiality at the trial for the sake of real justice.

Golden Rule in Life..

"Don't Judge A Book By Its Cover"

Some of the worlds Genius's don't look like it..

Stephen-Hawkings-Black-Hole-Only-Exists-in-His-Own-Life.jpg

Or Rapists and Murders either.

Very rare I agree with your thinking GB but here I do...

one day a rapist next day a student going to college for example.

or one day a murderer 1 hour later putti g his uniform on or running his bar. You never know do u..

Thanks for highlighting the depth of knowledge you have in this case

2) The Mobile Phone purportedly belonging to David.

Every time I see this brought up I always see that the most important part of this is always missing. Let's go back down memory lane here at start at the beginning.

Police knew from talking to David's friends and family that David Mobile Phone was missing, but they chose not to disclose this to the public. Probably in hopes of catching the murderer with it red handed. That means that David did not tell his friends, including Chris, who last saw him that night around 1 am, that he lost his phone. So there is a very good likelihood he had it on him when he left and ended up at the AC bar at 1:30 am.

So why is it that since the Police knew the Mobile Phone was missing almost on the day of the murders that it was not discovered for 2 weeks later? How did they know where to look even?

It is because after the confessions (forced or otherwise) the accused were asked about David's Mobile Phone. It is then alleged that one of the accused (Win I think) told them he had given this to a friend. When this friend was approached by police he told them he discarded this smashed up phone as he became suspicious of it, but other reports say they did it because it didn't work on the Island. Either way he showed them where he discarded it and thus leading to the discovery of this Mobile Phone.

Once the accused retracted their confession they later claimed they found this Mobile Phone on the Beach. Keep in mind that by then the Prosecution had a witness saying they gave it to him. But how plausible is that? Let's see!

If David did lose his Mobile Phone on the beach it had to have been that night as he never reported missing to his friends. Since David was seen on CCTV at a different bar, when it was closed, and a 7-11 later, and before he went to the AC Bar, he did not take the beach path to get their as there are no CCTV Cameras their, as we all know. So he would have had to have lost his phone somewhere along the beach from the AC Bar to the Rocks, and somewhere close the the 2 accused for them to find it in the dark.

So how is it that both of the accused claimed they did not see them. Even if they were swimming how far out in the ocean and away from the shore can 2 guys who are 5 feet tall go? To not notice someone walk by maybe only yards away, with all there clothes their and a guitar hid in the bush someplace. Or sitting on the log playing the guitar and someone walking by would almost have to trip over them.

If they did find the Mobile Phone on the beach how is it they knew it was David Miller's Mobile Phone when asked by the Police, and was directed to its location, and yet they claim they never saw anyone? Why would you give something so valuable to a friend without compensation and for no known good reason to do so, other than possibly trying to hide you had it? Wouldn't trying to sell it and send money home make more sense, if it was found and not stolen? Why would you destroy a Mobile Phone just because it didn't work for you first time. Why would David walk around with a Mobile Phone that wasn't working their?

Sorry but it is no very plausible to me they found it.

Now the next and final point.

As I said before, it beggars belief that the police would just happen to pick two scapegoats that just happened to had found that phone on that night.

It also seems very, shall we say, odd that the people clamoring for the truth don't seem to be interested in getting to the bottom of that issue.

Be glad it wasn't you they picked to become a scapegoat. Remember, you mean nothing to the locals either. And if you were here looking for truth, about 3000 of your posts wouldn't exist.

If I was there looking for the truth, I would start by following a certain fellow around with a gimpy walk and retrieve some DNA from him - which I suspect has already happened that will be compared with the RTP's DNA samples after the trial is over. You may have heard of the term "private investigator" before - often former police officers from countries with first world experience in major crimes.

Would agree with all that

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Exactly that I think. If the defence takes us every day a particular object on which no dna 2B, we are not out of the woods. The only tangible deduction is that the police did not disguised these parts to conviction contrary to what one says loudly here.

We can easily bet that they will now do the same with clothing non-presented by the prosecution. Then they will challenge the process of DNA levies that match and it will be judges to decide.

We can also accept that they use so weak arguments because they don't have more convincing and therefore that the two accused are guilty. Let us now see if this trial reserve us a surprise ...

We can also accept that they use so weak arguments because they don't have more convincing and therefore that the two accused are guilty

Talk about weak arguments......

The prosecution's case is weak, extremely weak. The only "evidence" they seem to have is a retracted confession (undoubtedly obtained under torture), the presence of the suspects not far from the crime scene (willingly offered up by the defence, as it does not prove or even point to certain guilt), a handphone purportedly belonging to David found near the B2's residence (not on them or in their room) and a claimed DNA match (but as yet, no confirmation of whether this in fact matches the sperm). The prosecution's defenders on TV have also not put forward any compelling evidence as to the B2's guilt.

And yet, you seem certain of their guilt. Strange.

3) A Claimed DNA Match with yet no confirmation of whether it in fact matches the sperm?

The Claimed DNA found inside of Hannah is alleged to be sperm and matches the 2 Accused DNA. The has been written several places for a year now. But since sperm was mentioned lets talk about that only.

Hannah was Raped and Sodomized! This came out in the investigation very early on. You don't need a sperm sample to prove that. Wearing a Condom does not clear you of rape charges. There are many other ways to tell this, including torn tissue. This has never been and issue of argument up to this point by anyone on either the Prosecutor or Defense Teams. .

Proof seems to be a very popular word here that people like to use a lot. How many times have we heard that the DNA presented by the Prosecution is only backed by their word and no other documented proof. Then the next line they write how Dr. Pornthip is saying the that change of custody was incomplete on the Prosecutors DNA Evidence and that these documents were edited as the dates are not right.

Now how in the hell can you have no documents as proof but at the same time having the defense team and witness questioning that documented proof?

The DNA Evidence presented by the Prosecution and Forensic Witnesses came with Documents such as change of custody. Whether this was incomplete or not remains to be seen

Oh! I never did see in the Testimony from Dr. Pornthip where she claimed the DNA found inside Hannah was not sperm. Did you? I never even saw where she suggested it could be something else. So I am not sure where you got this information from to begin your statement..

Thats alot of bold statements GB.

You may well have to eat your words on some of it when the UK autopsy is disclosed. To much reliance on old news.

As for Pornthip well she never examined Hannah Or David which is why she cant comment precisely on the findings however the uk experts will.... you watch.

Perhaps a Ohh I apologise I was wrong will be in order.

So the defense strategy is to nitpick the procedures of forensic analysis that led to the DNA match, the problem with that is that it's not possible to go "oopsie, false positive!" with a DNA analysis, no mistake is going to produce a DNA match for not just one, but two persons.

The only thing that would give a false match is deliberately faking the results, since A ) they don't seem to have any evidence of that and B ) they refused to do a retest of those results it all amounts to insinuations; let's see how the judge weights those insinuations against the actual results from the analysis

Exactly that I think. If the defence takes us every day a particular object on which no dna 2B, we are not out of the woods. The only tangible deduction is that the police did not disguised these parts to conviction contrary to what one says loudly here.

We can easily bet that they will now do the same with clothing non-presented by the prosecution. Then they will challenge the process of DNA levies that match and it will be judges to decide.

We can also accept that they use so weak arguments because they don't have more convincing and therefore that the two accused are guilty. Let us now see if this trial reserve us a surprise ...

Well yes, it's not something that supports the theory of the two men being victims of a conspiracy; if that would be the case it would had been very easy for one of the conspirators to rub some samples from the defendants on the hoe (or other evidence provided for retesting) before handing it over, no?

It's not as if crazier things have been suggested to have happened regarding this case.

However it makes the excuse for not wanting to retest the DNA samples from the autopsy less believable, if they think they could be tampered with then the same standard would had been used for the other items, which the defense appears to hold as reliable.

If I'm not mistaken the next hearings will have the two defendants testifying; that would be interesting because there's something very unusual about this case that I haven't seen anyone noticing. Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo are very much a mystery, besides being Burmese from Rakhine and that they worked in Koh Tao for a couple years there's practically nothing else to be known about them. I don't know if the police did a background investigation on them, and normally the press would be digging up the lives of the suspects, but in this case? Nothing.

Two simple boys, gumagon boys from Burma trying to esacpe the horrible dirt floor persecuted poverty they live in and trying to get a quid to help mummy and daddy.

Thats my take on it after having visited and stayed in Burma a few times.

I second that. In the wrong place at the wrong time. They made it all fit best as possible.

I said that already MadAussie..

The Biggest problem is this goes so high up the chain of command. Its not a local issue now it National and how they manage the outcome concerns me.

Will it be a case of no matter the case they are guilty or will it be possible to get a not guilty on overwhelming inconsistencies? Lack of evidence etc etc etc.

Theres some people who no matter what you tell them are so set in there agenda they will not loose face. Some even post on here.

Me well I am open minded I dont where blinkers. So far I have grave concerns that they are scapegoats. The fact that theres no independent corroboration on evidence verification leaves the case in tatters. Its turning out to be like a Thai TV soap. So ridiculous you want to laugh if it wasnt so serious.