ZZZ

All about the Chula intensive course:

http://www.arts.chula.ac.th/~asc/itp.html

Pulling up your feet in the sofa is probably not some kind of stunt Hollywood came up with.

Maybe I should not have mentioned "American movies" when I made my comment but most of the movies comes from over there, did not mean to pick on any particular nationality.

Anyway, next time you watch something like Seinfeld or Friends, there is always a sofa around in these series, you will always see someone pull up one or both shod feet in the sofa. The sofa may still "seem clean" but after walking around outside stepping in garbage juice, dog piss and various globs of phlegm it's not as clean as it seems

You will invariably touch the sofa with your hands and to then, like in Friends, sit there and eat doughnuts is not very nice

Like many others said it's not a Thai thing, it's just common sense.

It's disgusting watching, mainly American, movies where people sit in a sofa or a bed with their dirty shoes on or bring in all sorts of filth that is deposited on the carpeting.

The question is where do you set the limit??

What is full time? An expat here on a one year contract?? Should you get the privilege after have living here for a certain time?? Should retirees have the privilige as they support the local economy???Should it be for people with Thai residence visa??

And how should all this be controlled??

I have given serious though to your questions and have come up with a proposed solution. (This is your turn to criticize and tell me why this wouldn't work or how it is not fair, but please also feel free to offer solutions as well)

1. I believe that the Thai govenment has already set the limits of who they consider a tourist and who they consider a local. Those that qualify for VAT refund are tourists, those that don't must then be locals?

If this same standard is used then it would create a very fair and consistant position. If any other standard is used then you will face a problem with inconsistancy

- Some one may qualify as a tourist and a refund of VAT and Local prices for parks (this would be unfair)

-or-

- Someone may be considered a local for VAT puposes but not a local for admission to parks

2. This should not be hard to implement as the training program and trained individuals already exist, they may need to just expand the number of people. The requirements would be the same, the only difference will be what benefits you are eligible depending on which side of the line you fall.

Just because you don't qualify for VAT refund does not make you a "local" and a "local" is not the same as a citizen. By being a citizen of Thailand you are a part owner of the country's national parks and get access at a discounted price.

To not qualify for VAT you need to stay in Thailand for more than 180 days in a year, you could do that on tourist visas. I don't think it's fair that someone who only stay more than six month in the country should pay the same as the owners of the parks who also have to contribute a lifetime of taxes to the parks.

To implement your scheme you need to carry your passport around, you are supposed to anyway but most people don' t.

I doubt very much that the people working at the national parks could easily check someones passport and determine if that person had been in Thailand for less or more than 180 days, even trained immigration officers have problems doing this, you also need to be able to read english to do this and will be a problem.

The by far most simple and fair way of doing this is the way it's done now, Thai ID card discounted price, no Thai ID card foreigner price.

The questions you ask in your above post are the ones that need to be dabated, but the first step is to agree that perphaps the Thai - non Thai pricing that mostly only gets inforced with non asian foreigners is not the fairest policy.

Nothing to agree about here, I have never seen this happen. Whenever I have seen Chinese, Korean or Japanese tourist enter they have paid the foreign price. Sure the odd one will illegally slip trough but the vast majority don't.

At the moment a Thai ID card is the only way to do this, fair or not.

It's comparing apples with bananas again talking about school fees. There are private, state and government schools of all varieties with different rules and regulations.

That is true, but I was answer the claims of other posters that US citizens pay less than foreigners. There are no universities in the US that could have this type policy, it would never stand up in the courts.

Another problem with using US for comparison is that the different states are fairly autonomous. If you want to use US for comparison with Thailand you pretty much need to look at the different states as different countries where the people in each state is a citizen of that state. Then you will see that citizens of a state has benefits in that state that out of state people don't have, same as citizens of Thailand have benefits that non citizens don't have.

But they are not citizens they are residents these two words are not synonyms. You do not need to be a citizen to be a resident and being a citizen does not automatically make you a resident. It is also a non race/nationality based system wich is fair for all.

And for the racist thing the fact that Thai citizens of ANY skin color (race) pay the local price, foreigners of ANY skin color (race) pay a different price completely proves that this practice is not racist.

Again this is not the case, in practice you get one price for Asians and another for those with white skin. I have an Asian American friend who has NEVER paid the foreigner price. He just stands quitly next to his Thai wife and as long as no one hears him speak he gets the Asian price. This is not the exception but rather the rule, at least in practice. But even if it was strictly enforced it would still not make it fair, it would just increase the number of people who were beeing treated unfairly. Also there was a report that a Thai citizen who was a westerner was not allowed to pay the Thai price, it is not hard to picture that conversation--You are Farang!! Even with PR or a Thai ID I am guessing it is still not definite thing that you would get the Thai price.

Just say that a national park in US had the policy of giving US citizens a discount and charge all foreigners a higher price. Would you consider that racist?? If you don't call this racist there is no way you can call the Thai practice racist as this is exactly what they are doing.

Yes I would believe that this was equally unfair because the reason for giving the discount is the fact that as a Resident your tax dollars go towards the upkeep of the park. That is why it is set up in a way that ALL RESIDENTS get reduced prices rather based on citizenship.

I would also be very surprised if it was not labled as racist and a lawsuit was not filed immediately claiming just that. I would also be surprised if that lawsuit was not successful.

It may appear racist for the shortsighted as it seems like one race get in for a lower price while another race have to pay more, but this is just a coincidence, got nothing to do with racism.

If a policy was written in a way that the drafters were not intending to be racist but in practice of that policy is enforced in a matter that is racist I would argue that it is in fact a racist policy.

So if it doesn't have anything to do with racism then what does it have to with?

I can understand the argument of the US parks saying that tax dollars are used for upkeep of the parks so residents should get lower prices.

What I don't understand, is the reason why you believe Thai citizens should receive a lower entrance fee than foreigners that live here fulltime and whose tax dollars go towards the upkeep of these facilities as well.

I want to understand the justification for this, it just seems to be the creation of an excusionary policy aimed at a minority group.

I understand your argument that foreigners living here full time should pay the Thai price.

The question is where do you set the limit??

What is full time? An expat here on a one year contract?? Should you get the privilege after have living here for a certain time?? Should retirees have the privilige as they support the local economy???Should it be for people with Thai residence visa??

And how should all this be controlled??

Do you see my point? Using citizenship all you need is to ask for the Thai ID card that all Thai citizen have to carry and you know what fee to pay.

Like I said before nothing is fair and you can not always please everyone.

Agree completely that "Charging different price for different colour is STUPID!"

It's also STUPID to not understand the difference between charging for citizenship and charging for skin color.

Thai citizens of ANY skin color pay the local price, foreigners of ANY skin color pay a different price.

I think you are arguing it was not meant to be racist, but in practice it actually is racist.

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and I think you completely mis understand the systems in countries in the west... they are specifically designed to remove any and all requirements of citizenship/nationality/race from everything. All of the requirements are based on a generic set of requirements for residency.

Anyone can fulfill these requirements regardless of there nationality and US citizens can also be excluded if they do not meet the requirements:

Examples:

1. A Thai person goes to live in the US in the State he plans study. He lives there for one year and becomes resident (this does not have anything to do with visa status, it just means you can prove you lived there for a year)

He then applys for University showing proof that he has lived in the State for at least one year before applying for University - he will get charged the resident rate.

2. My daughter, a US citizen, finishes high school in Thailand and wishes to study in the US. She applys for Universty and is accepted. She would be declared an international student and pay the international rate because she is NOT A RESIDENT

You pay the exact same amount and have to meet the exact same residency requirements as my US Citizen daughter. The only reason you pay more than the average US citizen is because the average US citizen lives in the US.

You would also pay the same amount more compared to Thai citizens who have lived in the US for a year before they applied to University (even if they were living in the US illegally for one year on a 3 month tourist visa).

It's comparing apples with bananas again talking about school fees. There are private, state and government schools of all varieties with different rules and regulations.

Another problem with using US for comparison is that the different states are fairly autonomous. If you want to use US for comparison with Thailand you pretty much need to look at the different states as different countries where the people in each state is a citizen of that state. Then you will see that citizens of a state has benefits in that state that out of state people don't have, same as citizens of Thailand have benefits that non citizens don't have.

And for the racist thing the fact that Thai citizens of ANY skin color (race) pay the local price, foreigners of ANY skin color (race) pay a different price completely proves that this practice is not racist.

Just say that a national park in US had the policy of giving US citizens a discount and charge all foreigners a higher price. Would you consider that racist?? If you don't call this racist there is no way you can call the Thai practice racist as this is exactly what they are doing.

It may appear racist for the shortsighted as it seems like one race get in for a lower price while another race have to pay more, but this is just a coincidence, got nothing to do with racism.

Driving licence or not you are a foreigner. Accept that. You were sold the correct ticket, like it or not (not in your case).

Would that mean the same as to accept racism???

If I have to pay more than others because of my skin, I leave - always.

I'd like to see a park in Europe charging different (higher) prices for africans or asians.

As for the argument "remember you are a guest in this country!" , this has got to be one of the stupidest quotes i know, and it pops up constantly in all kinds of topics!

- Would you guys say the same thing if some nobrain-gov. started fiddling with say, nuclear weapons?

We all live on planet earth and all have a equal duty to point out stupid or dangerous bahavior!

Charging different price for different colour is STUPID!

Agree completely that "Charging different price for different colour is STUPID!"

It's also STUPID to not understand the difference between charging for citizenship and charging for skin color.

Thai citizens of ANY skin color pay the local price, foreigners of ANY skin color pay a different price.

Wrong. I live next to Korat Zoo. Big sign: farang price an not farang price. Japanese pay "NOT farang" price!!! Last i checked Japanese and Thais did't have the same citizenship. Good friend with thai citizenship, white skin : farang price. Big argument (in thai), result : we went home.

So you base your argument on 1 or 2 anomalies. The vast majority of cases is citizen Thai price, foreigner foreign price. There is bound to be the odd case of misinterpretation of the rules by some staff at these places.

At some venues tour organizers have negotiated local price for their customers as they are bringing in a steady flow of visitors.

Driving licence or not you are a foreigner. Accept that. You were sold the correct ticket, like it or not (not in your case).

Would that mean the same as to accept racism???

If I have to pay more than others because of my skin, I leave - always.

I'd like to see a park in Europe charging different (higher) prices for africans or asians.

As for the argument "remember you are a guest in this country!" , this has got to be one of the stupidest quotes i know, and it pops up constantly in all kinds of topics!

- Would you guys say the same thing if some nobrain-gov. started fiddling with say, nuclear weapons?

We all live on planet earth and all have a equal duty to point out stupid or dangerous bahavior!

Charging different price for different colour is STUPID!

Agree completely that "Charging different price for different colour is STUPID!"

It's also STUPID to not understand the difference between charging for citizenship and charging for skin color.

Thai citizens of ANY skin color pay the local price, foreigners of ANY skin color pay a different price.

You obviously have not visited Koh Samet during a Thai public holiday period. I would not recommend it as it is difficult to get any accommodation at all because it is fully booked up by Thais. I know a Thai (my partner) who got into a tourist site in Nepal (sorry, not India) free of charge because they thought he was a local, whereas I was stopped and had to pay. You have also obviously not visited some of the inland national parks in Thailand - eg. Kaeng Tana, to which my original message refers (although I could name others if you wish) - the vast majority of visitors are Thai, with only a sprinkling of farangs.

I've been to Koh Samet during public holidays and yes there are a lot of Thais there then for 1 or 2 days, there are still a lot of foreigners there and for the remaining 5-6 days of that week the vast majority are foreigners.

That someone illegally sneak in at a lower price is not really to be condoned but it happens.

If you read my earlier posts I said that the more remote parks could as well be same price for all as it will make no big difference. Then again as there are very few foreigners there it will only affect a few people and it's easier to have the same policy for all parks. The more remote parks also have a lower entrance fee compared to the island parks like Koh Samet.

the amount of water that your body needs in a day is affected by the amount that you sweat , so for those of us who sweat alot, 6-8 glasses of water is not nearly enough. There is no right and wrong concerning water, it's better to drink more than risk dehydration

Correct, you could sit in front of a computer in an air conditioned office one day and only need 1 liter of water, next day you could be out in the heat running a marathon needing to drink 5-6 liters of water.

The thing is that the body has ways of telling you when you need to drink, you feel thirsty, dark urine, headaches, cramps. There is no real way of the body telling you not to drink even if to much water can be far more serious than to little.

The simple reason there is no warning that you drink to much is that there is no natural way you can drink to much. If you only drink when you are thirsty you will probably only be able to drink about half to 1 liter and then you will not be thirsty anymore therefore not drink anymore so no overdose of water.

The problem nowadays is the all the media pressure that you should drink as much as possible this creates an unnatural drinking habit where many force themselfes to drink far to much.

To much water will result in a very high osmotic pressure that will damage cells. There will also be a change in the electrical properties of your body fluids that could interfere with the electric impulses that are used to trigger many bodily functions such as your heart beat. These things could cause very sudden and very serious complications such as seizures and heart attacks.

To little water is also serious but it's normally a much slower process and the body will tell you what the problem is.

To compare US national parks with national parks in Thailand is like comparing apples with bananas.

Most parks in US probably have 99% US visitors so a dual scheme based on citizenship would make no sense at all, it would probably be more costly to administer than what they would gain on it. That is why they base their disguised discount schemes for local residents with discount coupons or yearly/life discount cards.

Parks in Thailand such as Koh Samet rely mainly on foreign visitors and the amount they take in from them make a big difference in the total revenue.

It may not be fair, there are Thai millionaires and farangs living on a shoestring, but it's a very easy to run system as all Thais have a Thai ID card.

I don't agree at all that the main punters for most National Parks in Thailand are foreign tourists. I've been to many around Thailand, and the main customers are Thai - especially in Thai holiday periods. Farangs are always in the tiny majority. The extra cash given by foreigner prices are relatively small compared to that from Thais. The park attendants also never seem to ask for proof of citizenship - so asians that look like Thais will get in at the Thai rate, like I've seen in India, for example.

If you read my post you will see that I said "Parks in Thailand such as Koh Samet". If you go to Koh Samet you will see that the vast majority of visitors are foreign, same for many of the island parks down south.

I doubt very much that Thais will get in at Thai rates in India

Like you say the skin is a major organ, actually the largest in our body and it will be kept healthy by an adequate intake of water.

But, another way for the skin to keep healthy is to excrete substances through glands in the skin, some waste some to keep the skin healthy. By frequent use of "moisturizers" and other cosmetics this function will be blocked and there will be problems with the skin. This is usually self treated with even more gunk applied to the face.

Initially these applications may give a short term affect of healthy skin but in the long term it's just bad, apart from bad skin you will also absorb all sorts of toxins that will give you other problems.

A mild soap once a day and just plain water splashed on the face several times a day will keep the skin healthy.

To compare US national parks with national parks in Thailand is like comparing apples with bananas.

Most parks in US probably have 99% US visitors so a dual scheme based on citizenship would make no sense at all, it would probably be more costly to administer than what they would gain on it. That is why they base their disguised discount schemes for local residents with discount coupons or yearly/life discount cards.

Parks in Thailand such as Koh Samet rely mainly on foreign visitors and the amount they take in from them make a big difference in the total revenue.

It may not be fair, there are Thai millionaires and farangs living on a shoestring, but it's a very easy to run system as all Thais have a Thai ID card.

There is a bike rental business at the beach road end of Soi Pattayaland 2, they must have at least 30 big road bikes (CBR's R1's etc) The BIB decided that they were taking up too much space (which they were probably) so they impounded the lot of them. The fee to have them returned to her was reportedly in the region of 30,000 THB per bike! Wallop.

Well done, hope they clear up the rest of Beach Rd and Walking street the same way.

These bike rentals should only be allowed to keep 4-5 bikes in these locations, the rest should be parked somewhere where they are of no nuisance to the general public. They could keep a photo catalog at the location to show customers their full range of bikes.

You can use the web card issued by Kasikorn bank, also a debitcard but can be used for web purchases. Actually it's not really a card but they give you a number, cvv and expiry date so it can be used for web purchases and PayPal. Other banks may have the same thing.

check this out. It's an extreme example for sure but illustrates the stupidity of the flushing concept.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10...in-damaged.html

If the link doesn't work, it's basically self explanatory- you see the body needs 'impurities' and this poor woman suffered an extreme sodium deficiency.

3 cups of water wouldn't do this, and is in fact a good idea, but it won't make you more beautiful or handsome.

You are correct in a way, it depends on your frame of reference. Very large amounts of water will not do you any good, excess drinking of water will not turn you into cosmetics model over night, all correct.

The thing is that water will flush your body from impurities.

Your metabolism, kidneys and liver will remove impurities if they function properly. For these systems to work they need a certain amount of water. If you do not get enough water your body will not be able to remove the impurities and this will affect your entire body, including your skin. So water will flush your system and give you healthy skin but it's just a matter of getting enough NOT more is better.

Drinking water in the morning, an hour before you eat anything, will have some added benefits. As your body is dehydrated after a nights sleep the water you drink will be distributed to where you need it and much of this will be to your skin from where you have lost most of the water during the night, this will give you better skin.

If you skip the water in the morning and only drink with food in your stomach much of the water will go to your metabolism and your skin will suffer. Also if you drink in the morning your skin will be better re hydrated and better prepared to take the punishment of your working day, better prepared will mean less damage and a better skin.

You mentioned before that 6-8 glasses per day is not correct, I agree with that.

The 6-8 glasses per day originated from a recommendation from the US National Research Council that was adopted by doctors and widely publicized as the definitive recommendation on water intake.

The recommendation was correct but the problem was that the last sentence in the recommendation was never publicized, this is what the original recommendation looked like:

"A suitable allowance of water for adults is 2.5 liters daily in most instances. An ordinary standard for diverse persons is 1 milliliter for each calorie of food. Most of this quantity is contained in prepared foods."

Note the last sentence!!

Most people living in temperate climate and not doing any physical work will probably only need about 1 liter of water (liquids) per day, apart from what they get through their food.

How much you should drink depends on many things so this amount could vary enormously on the situation. The thing is to little or to much could be very dangerous.

If you drink to little you will get thirsty, urine will be dark, headaches, cramps. If you drink to much there may be no signs until it's to late.

If you are thirsty or have any signs of dehydration drink, if not don't drink

I saw them in action yesterday afternoon, about 1:00 PM, at the entrance to Soi Diamond on 2nd Road. They were heaving a bike up onto the back of a red pickup truck fitted with police warning lights. I wondered what that was all about.

Can someone please explain what the difference is between the red/white and yellow/white striped areas? Thanks.

Red and White markings:

This is a no parking zone - cars may not park here at any time

Yellow and White markings:

Indicates a short-term parking space only, usually no more than five minutes. These markings also indicate a bus stop. It is not advisable to park here

Although I agree with you on some points ZZZ, my real point was if you have paid the price and met the criteria of residency, why shouldn't you expect to be treated the same? If not what is the real benefit of residency?

I agree that if you have a Thai permanent residency it would be reasonable that you should pay the Thai price.

The problem is that, as far as I know, the regulations (for national parks) say one price for Thai citizens and another for others, permanent residence permit does not make you a citizen.

What I think they should do is to have the same price for everyone at national parks as the foreign revenue makes a very small difference. The exception should be for parks like Koh Samet where the revenue from foreigners is substantial and should remain as it is. I would also like to see them use some of this revenue to clean up the place and put some pressure on the inhabitants to take care of it but that is a different story.

Still, quite often you get in at Thai price with a local drivers license but you never know, if it works it works if not just smile and pay, the poor sod in the booth did not make the rules and do not deserve any bollocking.

As for what the real benefit of residency is, you tell me

I'm pretty sure that most people don't go that way just to save a few dollars at national parks

Most in life is not fair, it's full of compromises. With rules and regulations there will always be a small minority that will draw the short stick, sometimes you sometimes someone else.

In this case we are talking about a few dollars every now and then and if you want to spoil a day for family and kids by electing to boycott venues because someone else get in at a few dollars less than you, it's up to you.

If you like the venue and the price ok for you enjoy it, what others pay makes no difference what so ever for your personal situation. No matter what you do or buy there will always be someone else getting a better deal for one reason or another. Life is to short to worry about things like this

Water is good for the whole body in the morning. During a nights sleep we loose a lot of water. Much of this loss is through the skin because of sweating or because we sleep in dry air conditioned environment, we also exhale a lot of moisture breathing. Most people are dehydrated after a nights sleep, more so if there was some alcohol had the night before.

Drinking a lot of water the first thing when you wake up is the best you do. Just look at all the other creatures on the planet, the first thing they do in the morning is to find water and drink.

Splashing water on your face several times during the day and letting the skin absorb it is also very good and will keep your skin moisturized. Why spend money on "moisturizers" when you have concentrated moisture for free on tap??

Most "moisturizers" do not add any moisture at all, just chemicals (some dangerous) that make your skin feel good.

I wonder if this will affect all the moto taxi stands and rental bikes illegally parked all along Beach Rd

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

You totally miss the point,it does not matter Thailand is cheap,many foreigner are living here and working here,they pay tax like thai people do,so it is just a ripp off,thais think all foreigner are rich people so they can ripp them off whereever they want,im german,what do u think if u go to the zoo in berlin,and they would hv a pricelist saying non germans pay 10times more than germans?u think thats the right thing?in europe we give discounts for groups,kids,older people,jobless and so on,but we dont give discounts because they are europeans,black,white or green people,i think many of thaivisa members stay to long in Thailand already and adopted the thai thinking,it's a good thing to understand the thais,but u should not forget what is right or wrong,it has nothing to do u r a cheap charly or not,and please don't come with"if u don't like it here,go home"

Dual pricing is just as common in tourist places in the west as in Thailand it's just done in different ways. Some offer a yearly pass slightly more expensive than a one time entry, a one time tourist would not buy this but the local resident would benefit greatly from this. Some offer discount cards for locals. Very often there will be no evidence of these discount schemes so the normal tourist will not be aware that dual pricing exists.

The reason for doing it this way is that in the west it is often impossible to tell if someone is a foreigner or not, there are not many places with national ID cards and you normally don't carry a passport around.

In Thailand it is done in a different way as it's fairy easy to tell if someone is a foreigner just by looking at them and if there is any doubt all Thai have to carry their ID card at all times so citizenship can always be easily verified.

In a way I can understand that some people confuses this with racism as in Thailand often tourists and locals happens to be different races, while in the west most are pretty much the same race.

The thing is that in both cases dual pricing is there to give the local population a discount to encourage them to visit the places as much as possible.

Part of the problem is that Thailand is one of the cheapest nice countries to stay in the world and consequently attracts some of the world's cheapest Westerners demanding to be housed and fed and entertained for the same price as a Thai labourer. There really is no solution but the realistic expectation that the Westerner's demands will occasionally be unmet and he will get frustrated and start crying like a small child.

I think that is an incredibly simplistic reply and one that I find a little offensive. It is often the case that people make this kind of remark without any sort of data to back it up. Personally I am fully employed and paid very well working outside of the kingdom 6 months a year, All of my Friends here are (or would be considered) fairly affluent by the standards of their mother country. Part of the problem is that people come here and see some westerners who obviously are not well off and also see that some westerners complain and then lump almost everyone into the "whining cheap Charlie" bracket.

Regardless of the dozens of posts stating "other countries practice dual pricing", the fact is that here it is done soley by your ethnicity and as such is a racist practice. This sort of blanket overcharging would not be allowed in many western countries, as the bleeding heart Politically correct crowd, would be taking people to court over racist policies.

regards

Freddie

I find it incredibly simplistic to label an entire nation as racist without backing it up with any sort of data.

Get your facts right. The dual prizing in Thailand is based on citizenship. Any Thai citizen, weather he is of Indian, Khmer, Burmese, Chinese, Malay, Thai or farang origin, will pay the Thai price. To try and twist this to being racist is just wrong