drtreelove

On 8/14/2022 at 11:11 PM, Bons said:

Necroing this.

Using Fipronil is not recommended. Its uses are banned for most applications in the EU and some in the US.

 

This is because it spreads easily in water and reaches local wildlife. It's toxic to fish, aquatic invertebrates, bees, rabbits, and some birds.

Wouldn't put that around my kids or small pets.

Thank you! this is good advice.  Fipronil is a highly effective termiticide but should only be used in closed systems, eg., subsurface soil injection systems.  It should not be used in open soil, open air spray applications. 

Permethrin and other pyrethroids (bifenthrin, cypermethrin, alpha-cypermethrin, imiprothrin) are considered "least toxic" and safer than the older generation insecticides (organophosphates, chlorinated hydrocarbons, and carbamates), but pyrethroids are not totally harmless, they can and do present some health hazards and environmental contamination. Use conservatively only as necessary, keep kids and pets away until spray substance dries, and follow Mutt Daeng's wise advise on using PPEs when mixing, handling and spraying.  

Chaindrite Stedfast 30 is bifenthrin active ingredient, one of the more powerful pyrethroids with longer residual effectiveness than most, up to one year. Twice a year applications is probably adequate control for most situations. Chaindrite Crack and Crevice aerosol or Baygon equivalent, is useful for conservative spot spraying with a spout. 

Insecticidal soap, and ant chalk are useful for some situations. 

There are organic program options, botanicals like neem seed oil extract, rosemary and clove and other essential oils, but the problem is that they have limited residual effectiveness (that's why they are organic program compatible, less persistent in the environment) so more frequent applications are needed, like every two weeks.  

Sanitation and exclusion are important components of IPM, integrated pest management.  Clean up pest food sources, don't feed them and they won't come. Close the door, screen the windows, fill cracks and gaps in entry routes. Birds, lizards, cats, snakes, predatory insects, parasitoid mini-wasps and some other critters and microbes are important biological control agents. Don't kill them off with indecriminate pesticide spraying, like with fipronil. 

On 8/17/2022 at 11:50 AM, EricTh said:

What do you mean by aroma'therapy tree? How much did you pay for it?

 

I am thinking of buying a medium size tree that is easy to grow.

aroma therapy tree =  flower fragrance that is intoxicating and healing. 

Cost of small trees is minimal, 150 - 500 baht. Moving up in size to 2 - 3 meters height or so, with a 30cm root ball, something you can handle and plant yourself, maybe 1000 - 1500 baht. Larger than that 2000 and up for a nice specimen with delivery and planting included.

Other medium size flowering trees relatively easy to grow, consider

ton bpeep, Millingtonia hortensis, Indian cork tree,

ton ratchaphruek,  Cassia fistula, golden shower tree. 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:09 PM, kickstart said:

We grew Papaya for some years ,had lots of fruit ,we even provided some to a local SomTam seller ,then for 5 years we could not grow any ,a bit of research found it was a root-born disease,this year we are growing a few but not over good ,it is almost they need growing in a rotation .

As for Tamarin ,forget it ,we have some 50 foot monsters near here we have a few around the place ,one we will have to take the top out and slow it down .

Also, Thai like the sweet Tamarin ,these are normaly found in Petchaboon Provence ,some say ?they do not grow well else where ,we have one grown from seed they are sweet.

Try a Lar-Moot,Thai word, nice fruit,easy to grow .

Soil-borne pathogens and root-rot are predicable and preventable, whether its papaya, or other species like durian that are highly susceptible to fungal and water-mold root decay.  You can't just plant any tree on any site and expect smooth sailing. I miss the redwood forests and oak woodlands of my home in California. But I'm not planting redwoods and oaks here.

(Growers planting durian in din-neow (poorly drained sticky clay rice fields) are going to have a sad and expensive realization in the long term when Phytophthora root rot advances and starts taking out trees).  

For any tree crop, ornamental and shade tree plantings, first comes good growing conditions. For root-rot sensitive trees, choose sites with sandy loam soil that drains well. If you don't have these conditions then maybe you will not be able to grow certain trees into maturity and prime productivity years.  Know what you are planting and what ideal cultural conditions are required.  Plant on high ground or on mounded soil, or top of large furrow rows, so they don't stand in wet soil for lengthy periods of time; thats when root rot sets in. The root crown is often the most susceptible anatomy. Don't "research" devastating plant disease after the fact. Get informed and be pro-active, do the research before you plan and plant. 

Next comes good soil and water management.  If you depend on rainfall, and seasonal irrigation is not possible, due to site conditions or budget restrictions then you will have some challenges and serious limitations in tree health, growth, flowering, fruiting and productivity. 

Build soil fertility and don't rely on high NPK, high salt index chemical fertilizers, which are detrimental in the long term.  Build % soil organic matter, benefical soil biology, humus and humic substances as a primary goal. Tree health, productivity and drought resistance will be the result. 

FYI:

"Humic substances play a vital role in soil fertility and
plant nutrition. Plants grown on soils which contain adequate humin, humic adds (HAs), and
fulvic adds (FAs) are less subject to stress, are healthier, produce higher yields; and the
nutritional quality of harvested foods and feeds are superior. The value of humic substances in
soil fertility and plant nutrition relates to the many functions these complex organic compounds
perform as a part of the life cycle on earth. The life death cycle involves a recycling of the
carbon containing structural components of plants and animals through the soil and air and
back into the living plant.

Man became distracted from the importance of organic compound cycling when it was
discovered that soluble acidic based N P K "fertilizers" could stimulate plant growth. Large
industrial concerns took advantage of the N P K discovery to market industrially processed
"fertilizers" from mineral deposits. Continued use of these acidic fertilizers in the absence of
adequate humic substances (in the soil) has caused many serious sociological and ecological
problems. Man needs to reconsider his approach to fertilization techniques by giving higher
priority to soil humus.

Humic substances are a good source of energy for beneficial soil organisms. Humic
substances and non humic (organic) compounds provide the energy and many of the mineral
requirements for soil microorganisms and soil animals. Beneficial soil organisms lack the
photosynthetic apparatus to capture energy from the sun thus must survive on residual carbon
containing substances on or in the soil. Energy stored within the carbon bonds functions to
provide energy for various metabolic reactions within these organisms. Beneficial soil
organisms (algae, yeasts, bacteria, fungi nematodes, mycorrhizae, and small animals) perform
many beneficial functions which influence soil fertility and plant health. For example the
bacteria release organic acids which aid in the solubilization of mineral elements bound in soil.
Bacteria also release complex polysaccharides (sugar based compounds) that help create soil
crumbs (aggregates). Soil crumbs give soil a desirable structure. Other beneficial soil
microorganisms such as the Actinomyces release antibiotics into the soil. These antibiotics are
taken up by the plant to protect it against pests. Antibiotics also function to create desirable
ecological balances of soil organisms on the root surface (rhizoplane) and in soil near the roots
(rhizosphere). Fungi also perform many beneficial functions in soils. For example, mycorrhizae
aid plant roots in the uptake of water and trace elements. Other fungi decompose crop
residues and vegetative matter releasing bound nutrients for other organisms. Many of the
organic compounds released by fungi aid in forming humus and soil crumbs. Beneficial soil
animals create tunnel like channels in the soil. These channels allow the soil to breath, and
exchange gases with the atmosphere. Soil animals also aid in the formation of humus, and
help balance the concentration of soil microorganisms. A healthy fertile soil must contain
sufficient carbon containing compounds to sustain the billions of microscopic life forms
required for a fertile soil and a healthy plant. A living soil is a fertile healthy soil.
Humus functions to improve the soil's water holding capacity."   Dr Robert Pettit

ORGANICMATTERPettit.pdf UN Tropical Organics.pdf

22 hours ago, freedomnow said:

 

Obvious to ask peak size of tree and timescales of growth if buying smaller age ones..I didn't (total noob/idiot on what to buy for garden) and ours has outgrown neighbour ones same planting period by 3x in size in height/width.

 

Bit too near the house....oh dear, what did I do ?

That's a very good point, "Wrong Tree Wrong Place" is first on my list of common tree problems.  Many people make that mistake, even landscape architects/garden designers who should know better. 

https://www.fertileearthlandcare.com/top-ten-tree-problems/

Tweechol Botanic Garden at Horizon Resort

Tweecholbotanicgarden

They have a great palm collection. 

ห้องประชุม สัมมนา จัดเลี้ยง ทีมบิวดิ้ง ที่ Horizon Village & Resort , Chiang Mai

On Hwy 118 (CM - Doi Saket - Chiang Rai) on the left, about 6km past the 121 outer ring road. 

The adjacent hotel has a decent buffet breakfast and lunch too.  

20 hours ago, DeaconJohn said:

@drtreelove

   Thanks so much for your helpful and informative posts.

Our second daughter bought a small fruit farm in Saraphi a few years ago as an investment.

Originally part of the lumyai orchards out there, we have diversified it with numerous other types of fruit trees and flowering plants.

We recently had a Thai style farmhouse built out of used teak and are spending more and more time at what is becoming a little Garden of Eden.

   

Your Garden of Eden sounds nice. Saraphi climate and soil has some good qualities, and some of the best trees and gardens I've seen in CM.  To insure plant health, longevity and resistance to pests and diseases, consider going full route on progressive soil improvement in line with the incredible emerging science and practices being made known through the Regenerative Agriculture movement.  There is a revolution in ag and horticulture going on. (See Kiss The Ground, Soil Food Web School, Advancing Eco Agriculture and other resources. There is a Regenerative Agriculture discussion on the Farming In Thailand forum, which has a lot of links to YouTube videos and reading materials.) 

2 hours ago, Dean1953 said:

Thanks Dr tree love.  I have no problem buying smaller trees. I won’t be moving back permanently to my house until the summer or fall of 2026, after my son graduates from high school.  I’d prefer to have mature trees by then in my yard.  Hopefully, I’ve got planting coconut trees out of my system.  I have a 50% rate of failure on them.  I’ll post pictures of my yard when I get there on 3 September.  I have no set plan for type of trees, so any suggestions would be helpful.  I do have a sprinkler system for the yard to take care of trees during the dry periods. My neighbor will check on it and knows how to set it.  I’ll be there for 2 months and will do what I can to help the trees along.  Thanks!

I'm concerned and wondering why the failures with coconut palms.  I'm always puzzled when I hear something like that, It shouldn't be that way. I have a personal record of near 100% success with planting thousands of trees in landscapes and reforestation programs. Its all about appropriate species selection for the site, compatible plantings and irrigation, and growing condtions, good preparation, proper handling and planting technique, mulching and follow up with soil and water managment (not too much or too little). 

Local laborers tend to brutalize trees in the transporting and transplanting, and don't take responsibility for results. A lot of that is due to property owners looking for cheap plants and services.  In my early career I was a foreman of a tree moving crew and the company I worked for guaranteed transplant health and survival for a year with a maintenance contract, so we had to take our professionalism seriously. 

New transplants, no matter how well they are handled have undergone extreme physiological stress and can be very vulnerable to any water deficit/drought stress, and can be highly susceptible to plant pests and diseases. So extra attention to follow up management, frequent monitoring,  and early intervention for any problems is essential. 

Coconut palms need good water management while a new root system is established, and they can be attacked by coconut rhinoceros beetle and red palm weevil which are killer pests. 

The tree suppliers near San Kamphaeng Hot Springs that you may be referring to are located in Mae On district near Huai Bok lake, near the intersection of roads 1317 and 4042.  

You can get there from San Kamphaeng on 1317, or from 118 past Doi Saket town, right on 3005, sign for Mae On. 

The attached photos have some signs with phone numbers.  There are all sizes of trees and shrubs.  The bigger trees are all traumatized, stubbed back in the tops and dug with extremely small root balls. Let the buyer beware.  I didn't get prices. 

From a recent discussion on the Farming forum:

I've use Dear Hearing Center in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Chonburi.  Go to the main office in Bangkok if you can, they are the most complete with tech and repair services on site, the other branches do testing and orders, but send the work to the main office:

326/3-4 Sukhothai Road, Suanjitralda, Dusit, Bangkok 10300
Tel: 02 – 668 – 1300 Fax : 02 – 668 – 1304
Email: [email protected] 

But there are other branches throughout Thailand: 

OUR BRANCH — DEAR HEARING

I recently made an expensive mistake and drowned a Signia in-ear device (over $2000. in the US.) by putting it through the clothes washer and dryer.  The Dear branch in Chiang Mai provided replacement with a Widex device for 35,000, testing, smartphone app and all.  The service was professional and efficient, perfect fit first time, and the quality of the device is the best I've had.  (I'm saving up to replace the other side, which survived the washer and dryer to some extent, but with some loss of clarity.) 

On 8/10/2022 at 6:23 PM, KannikaP said:

Makro have 4 x Organic Granny Smiths, perfect for Crumble with an 'added' ingredient between the apple & the crumble. Mmmmmmm.

By the way, who the 4uck was Granny Smith?

Same 4 pack of GS apples at Lotus Ruam Chok yesterday.  They don't taste full flavor, obviously not high nutrient density (per taste buds not refractometer) , and barely ripened, harvested too early as is necessary for long distance imports.

Some prefer Pippins for apple pie. 

Granny Smith, I think she was neighbor of Aunt Jemima, who washed with Dr Bronner castile soap, who bought his boots from Doc Martin. 

As you may know, there are different species of worms, and of termites, and different ideal habitat and food sources for each. And there are different methods of composting and soil management.  

If your soil, as in the open soil of your garden or landscape, is "packed with earthworms", and you have not introduced them, then they are probably the native worms, and you are probably doing something right, or you inherited organic matter rich soil that favors native earthworm habitat. If that is the case, then I would think that you do not need an outside source, just keep up with mulching and/or green manuring to maintain OM 3% or more if possible, which is hard to do in the tropics, but not impossible. 

But it appears that you are also discussing a different issue, worm composting.  This uses specific species of worms like red wigglers that digest raw plant and animal waste like your kitchen garbage, in a containerized environment, not in open soil. Or African night crawlers like Biosuge/Best Garden State use, that can digest larger volumes of well mananged finished compost or mixed organic matter ingredients.  

I'm not an expert in worm composting, but I love using vermicompost and think its one of the best soil fertility inputs available.  I have visited the Biosurge/BGS facility in Nakhon Pathom and used their product. I also buy worm castings and effluent from a large vermicompost facility connected to a cannabis grow at Mae Jo University Farm here in Chiang Mai. My NZ expat friend with an organic farm has been using red wiggler vermicompost and the liquid effluent for many years. He has a multi layer container set up with a faucet at the bottom layer for draining off the nutrient dense and beneficial-biology-rich effluent.  He recently bought a couple of kilos of red wigglers from the MJU facility, to start new batch. 

Chosing the right kind of worms and learning the correct management methods and materials is vital for quality of the product and avoidance of odors, flys, rodents and other pests. I believe you can find a lot of information online and through Youtube videos. Maybe other memebers here have more experience than I do and can contribute some practical information.

As for termites, what you describe is a curious phenomenon to me.  I have done composting in several locations, for my own gardens and landscapes, mango and longan orchards, and for my customers, and not had this problem.  I don't know termites that well, but the common subterranean termites, from my experience, don't usually go to living tissues of trees or to small chunks of wood or finer composting materials. They go to deadwood, stubs or heartwood-cavities on standing trees, logs or larger wood masses on the ground or buried.  They do need moist soil for their subterranean nests, so they may have been taking advantage of the moisture from the compost pile and not necessarily feeding on the compost materials

Ants will nest in compost piles that are not in a hot-composting stage. Could it be a mistaken identity with an ant colony and not termites?  

Consider Ton Bpeep, Millingtonia hortensis  (tree jasmine or Indian cork tree). 

Medium size evergreen tree, small leaves, gorgeous and highly fragrant when in full bloom. 

But to be frank, from the photos, I am concerned with your garden not being suitable for any tree other than a small-medium size palm, on more than 5 to 10 year plan.  The wall, hardscape, and extremely restricted area for a tree to develop an extensive root zone, does not represent good growing conditions and ability to manage soil fertility and appropriate watering. (Which could have something to do with the existing tree being so sparse and in decline.) And then there is the risk of root encroachment and damage to the planter wall and gravel bed, which even roots from a small or medium tree will do in time. 

If you do decide to plant a medium size tree in the place of the existing tree, I would recommend that you install a root barrier inside the planter perimeter, 1.5 - 2 ft (45 - 60 cm) deep, rigid plastic composite or reinforced concrete/ferro-cement, to deflect lateral root growth, and give your hardscapes a few years without damage. 

BTW, in my opinion, I don't see much of a Japanese garden theme, except maybe the gravel bed having some resemblance to a Zen sand or gravel garden. If you could find a niwa-ki stylized pine or topiary tree, and add a water feature, then that may give some semblace to a Japanese garden feeling, and would preserve your hardscape. But you wouldn't get any shade value. 

Mine is just one remote opinion, I'm not there and don't know your available resources.  Post your decisions and results please. Don

Build the soil and they will come. Don't build the soil and they will not survive. Favorable habitat is everything. Soil rich in organic matter content, cover cropped, shaded, mulched and without harsh chemical inputs is good habitat for earthworms. 

Order 1/4" screened vermicompost from Biosurge Thailand through Best Garden State on FB. (Nakhon Pathom, west of Bangkok)

Organic Fertilizer Worm Winner Vermicompost from Thailand (biosurgethailand.com)

"Our Vermicompost is screened to a large size of 1/4 inch- this means that there will be many worm eggs and juvenile worms in the final product..."

I used this vermicompost last year, and at first I thought it wasn't effective, I didnt' see worms right away. But then after 3 or 4 months of building soil organic matter and mulching, plant growth and root exudates that help build soil structure, the latent worm population began to grow.  

BTW, eat high high-nutrient-density organic veggies, not the worms. You will shine and everybody will love you. 

Thank you for contributing to the organic sub-forum, I thought it was completely dead. 

Don

New book, by master regen ag educator John Kempf: 

Quality Agriculture: Conversations about Regenerative Agronomy with Innovative Scientists and Growers

https://a.co/d/7meT3Ht

"An increasing number of farmers and scientists believe the foundational ideas of mainstream agronomy are incomplete and unsound. Conventional crop production ignores biology in favor of chemical interventions, leading farmers to buy inputs they don’t need. Fertilizer recommendations keep going up, pest pressure becomes more intense, pesticide applications are needed more often, and soil health continues to degrade. However, innovative growers and researchers are beginning to think differently about production agriculture systems. They have developed practices that regenerate soil and plant health and that deliver much better results than mainstream methods. Using these principles, growers are able to decrease fertilizer applications, reduce disease and insect pressure, hold more water in the soil, improve soil health, and grow crops that are more resilient to climatic extremes, increasing farm profitability immediately. As a leading agronomist and teacher, John Kempf has implemented regenerative agricultural systems on millions of acres across many different crop types and growing regions with his team at Advancing Eco Agriculture. In Quality Agriculture, John interviews a group of growers, consultants, and scientists who describe how to think and farm differently in order to produce exceptional results in the field. Their remarkable insights will challenge you, encourage you, and inspire gratitude and joy for the rewards of working with natural systems."

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1734844507/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_XDN32E955ZH43K3A8YVF_0

Doi Suthep-Pui National Park (thainationalparks.com)

"The main attractions of the park are; Wat Phra That Doi Suthep, Doi Pui Mountain, waterfalls, viewpoints and trails. The national park is one of the best in the country for hiking thanks to its “endless” trails throughout the park from all directions and elevations. Cycling is also very popular."

The Terracotta Garden At Lamphun สวนไม้ไทยพ่อเลี้ยงหมื่น - Home | Facebook

and another Terracotts Garden Arts Garden in CM that I haven't been to.

The Secret Terracotta Arts Garden in Chiang Mai - Tieland to Thailand

18 hours ago, arithai12 said:

OP, not sure if you want pointers to sports actitivities, or "attractions" like just walking in a park.

If you include both, the list is very long.

 

About the 700y that you mention, it is kind of dead in the daytime (hot) apart from the pool. Which is old and often not too clean, but includes not just a 50m pool but also a 5m deep diving pit. Changing rooms and showers/toilets below are a bit run down, but ok. It's 30B for member, 60B non-members. The building also has an open air (covered) gym.

The rest of 700y includes lots of facilities, from badminton to basketball to petanque to indoor courts. There was a 400m athletics track but they started renovating it during Covid, not sure what's the status now.

Come 5-6pm, the most popular activity is jogging/running along the 2km course, be prepared for lots of people especially at weekends. Cycling is possible but not ideal since they have many speed bumpers.

There is also a long (~5km?) reserved path which extends outside the 700y complex, with designated lanes for bycicles and joggers. Unfortunately most people don't get it and mix one with the other, and often scooters use it too.

Evening there are lots of food/drink/accessories small stands.

Any and all, there's lots to do and see outdoors, I just wanted to share some of the things I enjoy and hope others do too.  Something other than bars and restaurants and shopping experiences. 

Regarding 700yr pool, its been clean everytime I've been there, as recently as last Saturday. Only one or two other swimmers.  

The weight room an old universal machines are well on their way to broken down and out of service, many dumbells have disappeared just in the last few months.  The A/C treadmill and other machines room on the other side I haven't used recently. Its only open in the afternoon.

The newer 50m pool at Mae Jo University is open, clean and cool with a full roof overhead. 50 baht.

The bike/jog/MC path you describe runs parallel to the canal and leads all the way up to Huay Tung Tao lake park, which is another great outdoor resource. ( New bridge construction in progress at entry road).

On the right side of the entry road, just past the temple, there is a parking lot for the free 4km bike/hike paved pathway circut.  The lake park itself has an entry fee, I'm not sure of current prices. Besides the road around the lake with numerous pullouts, mini-parks and restaurants, at the far north end next to the forestry checkpoint at the road up the mountain (or end point to the mountain bike downhill) , there is a trailhead to a nice 2km hike to a waterfall. 

Hangout Like a Local at Huay Tung Tao Lake in Chiang Mai - Tieland to Thailand

Old cycling article written for Chiang Mai Mail in 2003.  

Some info is still good, but some is out of date. I'm not sure if the book referenced is still available.  I haven't been on some of the Doi Pui cross country and downhill trails for a few years, conditions may have changed. 

Mt Biking with Don Lee.pdf

References for low or no cost outdoor activities, exercise and attractions.  Comments, contributions, updates with current conditions welcome. 

700th Anniversary Stadium - Wikipedia

50 meter swimming pool, tennis courts, jogging, cycling and other facilities. 

700th Anniversary of Chiang Mai Sports Complex.pdf

On 7/19/2022 at 12:19 PM, djayz said:

What would that be?

Azadirachtin concentrate/neem seed oil extract, wood vinegar and lemongrass (leaf decoction/tea)

The Aza concentrates available in Thailand are really low in active ingredient, like this one from Thai Neem at 0.1%, so its minimally effective and the reason that most growers will experience failed treatments and say that organic biopesticides don't work (as well as lack of 1 to 2 week interval repeats). Some preventive action as repellent and reproductive disruptor properties is the best you'll get.  Botanicals work, you just have to know what to use and how to use it and what expectations to have or not have. They cannot be seen as a stand alone substitute for hard chemistry insecticide. They are effective if used as part of a comprehensive IPM program. Integrated Pest Management or I like to say Intelligent Plant Management) which includes soil fertility and water managment. 

Neemix from Certis USA is 4% a.i., AzaSol is 6% a.i. and will actually get some contact and translaminar knock down depending on the pest, host plant, timing of treatment. (In California when providing PHC (plant health care) for cannibis growers (legal, medicinal dispensary contract growers and hemp researchers), I used 70% neem oil during vegetative stage and swiched to AzaSol for flowering stage for control of budworms, spider mites etc, because its water soluble and doesn't leave an oily residue on the product. 

70% neem oil is not available here but is very popular in the US. Its very low in Aza, but overall is a good preventive hort oil with some of the complex neem chemistry that acts as an arthropod pest repellent. 

You can mix with wood vinegar, but be careful of this because high concentrations will burn foliage. 

Some Thai organic greens growers use a lite wood vinegar tank mix and soak a bunch of ta-kite/lemongrass leaves with it for a couple of days, and spray weekly to keep the caterpillars away. 

Taking it to another level. 

https://regenorganic.org/