drtreelove

On 12/3/2022 at 9:25 PM, Elkski said:

Fun reading this  thread.  Living in dry Utah doing composting and small gardens for personal use. Started with sorted sandy well  drained soil.  In some plots finally able to do low till.  Lots of work to start with near zero organics.   Seems like composting in Thailand's climate would be so easy.   Interesting to read about to much wood left in bagged compost bags.  Seems to be the norm here.  Most comes from Idaho wood mills and I think there is such a rush to move product they don't wait long enough.  Expanded some new garden area last winter during a Jan warm spell and didn't have compost so had to buy 10 bags from local home store.  Only half a pallet left from the previous year so it had been in the bags at least 9 months and it was much better looking than usual.   These big box stores get truckloads of bagged goods in spring.  They usually block off 1/2 acre of parking lot for the compost and bark goods.  Some of the bark foods are coming from the Midwest and bringing in non local mushrooms.   Wished I was 1/10 as educated on this topic as some of you so I could show wife's mom and sister some things to do on their Si Sa Ket farm.  

Another good resourse for you right next door in Colorado, for products and information.  

BuildASoil: Organic Living Soil, Fertilizers, and Soil Amendments 

I used to buy Bentonite Clay from them for my container potting mixes to increase CEC (cation exchange capacity) in porous substrates. You may consider this for your sandy soil, (along with copious organic matter inputs and biology inoculation). Not affordable for large areas where cover cropping may be a better way, but for a container or raised bed a sack of bentonite clay goes a long  way.  

Off topic and out of country? yes, unless general gardening self-education is considered. Thats one way I keep learning, looking at popular new products and processes, what others are doing and at ingredients.  For example I've studied DTE products and the "guaranteed analysis" pages and learned what their research and regulatory compliance has produced. It helps me to tailor my own soil improvement amendments and for my customers.  The US, along with Australia and some European countries, is light-years ahead of most other countries in research and development, mainstream acceptance and public demand for modern organic farming and gardening, methods and materials for soil improvement and plant health, resulting in high nutrient density food production. 

DTE All Purpose 4-6-2:

18 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think this is it.

 

I’ve pulled the cherry tomato plants out and will plant a different crop.

 

I’m also going to trial the cherry to

 in sterilized soil/compost.

 

I’ve made a sterilizer out of two steel drums, one with a few inches of water in it  sits on a fire, the other is perforated to allow steam to pass and I’ve put a soul and compost mix I there.

Worth a try I think.

Most of the microorganisms in the soil are beneficial, and in fact work to suppress the pathogens (harmful root-rot microbes). Sterilizing the soil will kill off the beneficials and set you up for an ongoing plague of root rot, plant losses and chemcial dependency. 

During a transition period while you are building the beneficial soil biology to optimum levels, you can drench with a biological fungicide for suppression of plant pathogens. 

I think you will find that Sisaket farmers will do-what-they-do and follow local practices. Its hard to influence Thai family traditions, even when you're sure you have a better way; especially remotely. When you move from that winter freeze zone to where you can grow mangos, bananas and papayas, you can do your own thing. My Thai wife couldn't relate to my 5' x 20' biointensive beds, even though they were thriving. So I set her up with a portion of our garden space with traditional rows for her makua, prik, grapao, strawberries and other favorites. 

Home Depot, Lowes and other big box stores may call their products compost, but as you have found its usually just raw organic matter in different forms, most Americans don't know the difference.  Look for a cannabis suppliers shop, like GroGeneration and you may find the real thing. Malibu brand Bu's Blend Biodynamic Compost is pricy but its real compost. Or make your own, when you thaw out in spring. Over there you can get Down To Earth brand blended organic fertilizers like their All Purpose and BioLive and their new biological inoculant product named Soluble Root Zone (or Granular Root Zone). 

For self-education on modern Soil Food Web oriented gardening and composting, YouTube is a beautiful thing.  Check out Matt Powers -The Permaculuture Student channel, he's got it all, and is very good at compiling and communicating the info from his master teachers, Dr Elaine Ingham and John Kempf (Advancing Eco Agriculture) and others.

5 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Where the jury is out for me on compost fertilizers is the price.

They possibly suit smaller area's like raised beds if you really want to go down the organic route.

According to the website they say they have grown corn well at 1 kilo/m2(compost).

1600 kilo's/rai,53 x 30 kilo bags at 300 per bag = 16,000 baht/rai.

That is expensive food compared to using chemical fertilizer on the same area.

Absolutely true. And commercial growers, especially those not in the specialty organic foods market, are up against the wall with the costs and low returns in most cases. You are right, sack compost is only feasible for small scale home and hobby gardening or maybe deep pockets like the cannabis capitalists. 

No one in their right mind would be buying sack compost for OM building inputs, at retail prices, for one or multiple rai applications. Even with bulk truckload or farm produced compost, that's never been economical organics anyway, to use high volume compost inputs for field crop or commercial orchard OM.  Organic farming that I learned in the early 70s, as well as modern regen ag, utilizes green-manure cover cropping and crop residues for OM maintenance, and low volume compost or compost tea/extracts for Rx biology inoculations. 

6 hours ago, NaiGreg said:

https://thai-organic-compost.com/

 

Anyone familiar with this operation in Mae Taeng? It's close to home.

 

 

Yes I know the Thai-Swiss owned Natural Agriculture and their products.  They deserve some respect for some of the good things about this operation and environmental responsibility.  They started out making their compost with a primary ingredient of ground up teak logging slash,  so that means it was recycled into food production and not burned. That plus elephant dung, other manures and green and brown ingredients made a good mix.  They sell sacks of compost and potting soil and also bulk 6 and 10-wheeler loads for local delivery. 

They use their products on their own 120 acre organic farm and have achieved a 5% organic matter content in some plots. I believe that they have a well established clientele for their organic food products, including some high-end resort restaurants throughout Thailand. A model success story for organic farming. 

Recyling green waste and manures, cooking your own compost will always be more economical than buying sack products at retail prices.  Getting on board with modern regen ag principles and practices, beneficial biology inoculations, cover cropping, livestock integration, minimal tillage and other Redox-favorable practices will be even more economical and highly productive if done right. 

As for the Jack compost. Check it out before buying and see if its what you want. The last time I ordered, a year ago, the product was not fully composted and contained a large percentage of raw wood particles. Jacques was responsive to my concerns and personally delivered some replacement sacks to my home with some better product. My friend also experienced the same disappointment. Hopefully they have improved the processing. 

Compare with the compost from Mae Jo University Farm, or better yet if you can budget for the delivery charges, the 'next level' African night crawler vermicompost from Best Garden State/BiosurgeThailand in Nakhon Pathom. 

Some other good resources in Mae Jo/Sansai area, you may know: 

The ag shop on the main drag (1001) across from MJU campus, between the two pedestrian overcrossings, just south of the Mae Jo Talad. The owner is ag educated and speaks English, but she is mostly chemical grower oriented with a few organics on the shelf.  I use the bat quano, 50 kg for 350 (hard to get exact ingredients but I believe its mostly dried chicken manure with some bat guano.) And she has some goodies like biological fungicides, biological pest control and botanicals, Bt, Azadirachtin concentrate from Thai Neem Co. 

One of the best organic fertility products is hydrolysed fish fertilizer.  I used Neptunes Harvest or Fish On for years in California and this year found a good product in Sansai.  Takumi Fish Amino Fertilizer is available online or at the Maruchubussan Co Ltd facility in Sansai. maruchubussan.co.th. They also have some other interesting products, including a complete cannabis starter kit. 

The way I used the fish fertilizer is as an organic nutrition boost during the growing season.  I would dig and amend my biointensive beds with compost and a soil test based Rx or a general purpose COF.  Once the plantings are up and growing, I apply a liquid fertility mix once a month or so, with compost extract, the fish fertilizer and kelp extract, or variations. 

New book:  Regenerative Soil by Matt Powers (and see his videos on YouTube)

Regenerative Soil - 2nd Edition: The Science and Solutions - HARDCOVER + SIGNED — The Permaculture Student

Just noticed, veggies and avocados.  Small scale home-garden veggies, then maybe raised beds where you can engineer the soil physical properties and fertility, but for a larger operation its expensive to set up and import materials.  Look into my favorite method, "Grow Biointensive" outlined in John Jeavons book "How To Grow More Vegetables... " . Its an evolution from the Biodynamic French Intensive method developed by Allan Chadwick.  I have used this successfully for many years. 

For avocados, there's good reason that you don't see many plantings of avodaco orchards in Changmai. It can be done but you will have some serious work to with soil preparation, mounding of planting sites, drainage and soil borne pathogens management to prevent Phytophthora crown rot. This is a long term investment and you must do it right or you could lose it all. 

9 minutes ago, drtreelove said:

 

 

 

 

By the way, regarding the original post, if you want to hire tractor work, my friend just had an operator disc at his farm in Sansai, I can maybe get you a reference. Kickstart has offered some good experience-based info on the limitations with rototiller use, but if you want to shop for a machine, I would go first to Sriyont near Wat Ket. 

MJU soil science dept does soil tests and will give you some data, but in my opinion, the range of chemistry that they analyse is liimited and omits some important information. And they don't offer much in the way of an interpretation and Rx amendments.  I haven't used them for a few years since I learned a better approach, but I have farmer friends who have and as far as I know they are still in the dark ages of soil management with SLAN system (Sufficiency Level of Applied Nutrients, which is based on chemical company funded education and the chemical agronomy model, as opposed to modern soil fertility, organic, soil food web/regenerative agriculture). If you know people there, ask about their current approach and if they consider and test for soil biology populations and make recommendations for organic methods and materials, if you are interested in that.

MJU does have some good resources, I live near there and previously managed mango and lamyai orchards with a lot of consulting with MJU ag and pomology ajarns, as well as CMU which also has good resources.  The current MJU cannabis and vermi-compost facility has high quality bulk compost and worm castings. I also use their red-wiggler worm compost effluent as a liquid fertility input. 

What you do with your one rai depends a lot on your intentions and expectations, and your budget of course, and if you have ablility to irrigate or not. If its a hobby farm or a long term farm development project and you can put some money into soil preparation, you can get some amazing results.  If you are desparate to plant a cash crop, that is one thing, or if you can take a year to start to build the soil fertility with cover cropping and organic matter inputs then that's another appproach. 

We're still getting some rain, yesterday afernoon/evening was great, but we can't count on that continuing. If you can irrigate, you can seed a cover crop now, but if not, you would need to wait for the next monsoon season.

Are you interested in organic methods and materials, or doesn't that matter to you?  If so, there is a lot of new and emerging science, principles and practices that have evolved in the last 10 years.  Check out the discussion on regenerative agriculture in this forum, with a lot of references for reading materials and videos. 

Also, it will likely loosen up some as you get a couple hundred starts and some hours on it. 

Not about the oil or the timing. It's a bigger saw and higher compression than you are used to, its all about your  technique.  Be sure to engage the decompression button every time, and be prepared to release the handle and not try to hang onto it. 

Consider that it may be too much saw for you.  Maybe let your son The Hulk use that one and rebuild your Husky for yourself.  

Drones only spray from the top down, which doesn't get important coverage of the underside leaf surfaces. Drone  spraying is okay for field crops and chemical pesticides that kill everything in the vicinity. 

But with an organic program using biopesticides, like botanical insect pest repllents and biological fungicides, and especially foliar fertilizers, the primary target surface should be lower leaf surfaces.  

I spray from the bottom up through the canopy. Some spray will blow up through and settle back down on the upper surfaces, but then I back off and mist over the upper surfaces too. Use a light spreader-sticker.  Also, hard to find here, but if applying foliar fertilizer, use a nano-particle fulvic acid adjuvant as a translaminar carrier, otherwise foliar ferts get very little absorption through the stomata and leaf surfaces. 

I prefer a hydraulic tank sprayer and dragging spray hose, and avoiding repeated mixing, but a backpack is useful for the type of job you describe.  A simple backpack sprayer is adequate in the short term until your trees are bigger and you need more pressure and height for full coverage. 

I prefer hand-pump backpacks over motorized,  because I often sprayed all day with hilly terrain and the weight is more of a factor than any pump action fatigue.  

I haven't been in the  market here in Thailand in recent years, but there should be good Japanese, Thaiwanese or Korean design backpack sprayers available, I'll look into it at two shops I know in Chiang Mai when I get back there next week. Limsakdakul and Sriyont.  

My suggestions, worked for me many years ago.

1. Will power.  Just decide to do it and stick with your resolve. If you fall down, get up again and keep going. 

2. Exercise. If you take up jogging, swimming or other aerobic activity, your desire to smoke will be quickly diminished when you start hitting the track or pool.  

3. TCM (traditional Chinese medicine).  A good herbal Rx will balance energies and help you make better decisions on what you put in your body and other health and lifestyle choices. 

4. Acupuncture. There are specific points that are used as well as general treatment that goes along with herbal therapy. 

The core problem it appears, is wrong tree, wrong place. The planting of large growing trees under utility lines requires crown reduction pruning.  Deferred maintenance necessitates extreme reduction cuts (topping) to achieve the line-clearance. 

There are alternatives in pruning style and standards of workmanship.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/prunetree.pdf

https://www.treesaregood.org/treeowner

THAI_-_PRUNING_GUIDE.pdf

On 10/20/2022 at 5:58 PM, JAFO said:

Amen to that.  I regularly see them rake the trimmings or leaves all up against the trunk so they rot and termites and bugs attack the tree and usually either kill it or it creates fungus and diseases that cause it to grow poorly. Proper arborists are very hard to come by here. Not a bad thing, Just what it is.

 

 

Certified arborists and tree workers are becoming possible to find in Thailand with the development of the Thai Arboriculture Association (on Facebook) and their certification program.  TAA member tree services are available in Bangkok and Chiang Mai at this time, no members in Pattaya, but some Bangkok tree services will go there.  

Most local tree cutters don't have a clue about proper pruning cuts and tree health care.  You will get what you pay for. 

On 10/20/2022 at 5:10 PM, Crossy said:

I would certainly clean up any splintered ends with a nice sharp saw.

 

Madam has some mysterious stuff she paints on the cut ends which apparently prevents fungus. I'll try and find out what it is.

 

Topical fungicide, biological or chemical may may provide some short term barrier effect if applied immediately after the cut is made, before infections occur, but they degrade within a few weeks and do not provide much residual effectiveness unless reappied monthly. There are many substances that have been used and tested for this purpose, from folk remedies to highly researched science based alternatives. The most common conclusion is not to paint, it is more important to make a clean cut with a sanitized tool, and to make the cut at  the branch collar or at a proper angle to the branch bark ridge, in order to promote rapid wound closure.  

My question is, will this cause any kind of detriment to the trees, like allowing diseases to enter etc?

Yes. see attachments

Why Topping Hurts Trees.pdf Why Topping Hurts Trees_thai.pdf

Our Electrolux dishwasher has been working flawlessly for a year.  We bought it at Power Buy near Computer Plaza. The unit is good, but they did an inferior, sloppy job on installation of the drain, which I had to redo myself. No biggy.  But I have come to prefer Saha Panich for appliances, service and parts, from sales persons to installers to service and the parts department upstairs they have proved to be the best at customer service and technical expertise. 

Be aware, as you may know, these convenience appliances are high usage and add up on the electricity bill.  And a dishwasher takes special detergent, rock salt and rinse-aid solution to perform well with a hard water source. 

My 1961 model dishwasher is okay when she feels like it, and I don't mind doing my share, but the Electrolux is handy when we have a big family dinner or let a mountain of dishes build up.  And they come out sprarkling clean. 

23 hours ago, opporna said:

@drtreelove Thanks for your reply. It's not easy to take pictures, but I've tried.

This is in the back of the house which doesn't have road access. The owner of the land the tree is on would of course be responsible in my home country, but I think that is a pipe dream here. From the front of the house, it looks like this:

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

On 10/20/2022 at 5:46 AM, opporna said:

 

I have put out an inquiry to the TAA organization leaders (and to the Urban Tree Care company) for a referral to a tree service in Pattaya area for an estimate. Sorry, I only know Nong Nooch Botanical Garden tree crew there, you could contact them for an estimate, but they are not oriented to this type of tree work as far as I know, mostly big tree moving and removals with crane assist. 

I assume that you want to clean, thin and reduce and shape the foliar crown of the tree to achieve clearance from the roof and allow air and light circulation to a patio or backyard living area, while maintaining the natural form and beauty of the tree.  And that you don't want an oversize hat-rack of bare stub-cuts. If so, ask for moderate crown reduction, crown cleaning, crown thinning and shaping using ISA Standards with maximum 25% foliage removal.  (Best Management Practices of the International Society of Arboriculture).  An educated certfied arborist will know what you mean. 

Even if your landlord would assume responsibility for tree maintenance pruning, they would likely hire a cheap local machete hacking job that reduced the tree to stubs. So if you care, and have funds for a professional job, it will be worth it to preserve your living enviroment.  

The attached list of TAA arborists does not have company locations.  I have recommended Nontri, and Friends of Trees for a similar pruning job for an expat friend in Bangkok.  Nontri bid 8000 baht, but Khun Oraya and crew of Friends did a satisfactory job for 4,500. Besides the technical climbing/pruning time, travel time, clean up and disposal are all considerations in cost. 

47 minutes ago, opporna said:

I still haven't found anyone, and I'm hoping someone has a good lead. Thanks in advance.

I do some tree care consulting and make referrals for tree work, mostly Chiang Mai and sometimes Bangkok.  I don't have a ready referral for Pattaya but I can try to help find someone for you.  I recommend certified arborists/tree workers from the TAA (Thai Arboriculture Association).  Urban Tree Care, previously mentioned by the Cowboy, is a Bangkok member but I don't know them. You can check to see if they go to Pattaya. 

Choosing a tree service that is right for the job and is affordable, depends on the location and the nature of the tree and the job.  If you post or PM a photo or two, and a description of what you want/expect to achieve it would help. Most people  are looking for cheap, crude work and you get what you pay for.  If you know the diffference, love your tree and know that quality professionalism sometimes costs a little more, then you are not as likely to have your tree mutilated and result in long term health and structural problems. Don

20 hours ago, Formaleins said:

Thanks, so can the bar/chain combination be swapped or not?

My opinion: only if you are absolutely sure it is a match, and I don't think you will find that it is for certain.  The 0.050 drive links will likely slop around in the 0.063 spocket. It may work, but a perfect fit is better.  IMO there is no great risk, but it may wear out your sprocket faster than it should.  That decision is best made with manufacturers specs, or an experienced saw shop tech/mechanic in logging country. 

I'm not a chainsaw mechanic, just an experienced tree worker and accident-free chainsaw operator for over 50 years. You will get better expert advice from a dealer or a specialized users forum. Like this:

Bar driver link gauge 0.050 vs 0.058 | Outdoor Power Equipment Forum (opeforum.com)

Your new Stihl saw is a money-maker and a serious investment. If you really need the second bar and chain, why not take the guess work out of it and just fork out for a compatible 3/8 x 0.063 bar and chain?  You can make the hundred bucks back in a day, can't you?  What are you doing, logging, milling?  Not in Thailand I assume. 

9 hours ago, Formaleins said:

From what I can gather, as long as the pitch is the same, then the bar / chain combination can be swapped out as long as the gauge of the bar matches the chain. 

Not necessarily. It depends on the type of sprocket. The drive link profile and gauge must match the sprocket too, especially with a closed, grooved type of sprocket as opposed to older type of open sprockets. If the gauge doesn't match then it will run sloppy and create excessive wear. 

9 hours ago, Formaleins said:

 

The other question is, would there be a chance that using the smaller gauge chain on the much more powerful (5.4 HP) that the chain might snap?

No. Drive link gauge is not likely a factor in strength. Breakage would depend more on quality of the chain and wear and tear during its working life. I you have beat it up, pinched it in cuts and bent the connecting links, and/or hit rocks, and/or the auto-oiler has not been fully functional for lubrication then be afraid. Don't take a chance, a broken chain can tear you up ugly. Got chaps?

On 9/26/2022 at 9:31 PM, Maybole said:

To clarify, the new shoots are coming from the centre of the old stumps. Will they bear fruit in the future?

I've never allowed that regrowth from the center to mature, I keep cutting it out until it gives up, in order to favor selected off-shoots, which are always dependable. I'm not sure, but I've assumed that the re-growth would not produce or would be inadequate.  Hopefully someone will be able to answer your question.