chrisinth

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Yo wrote:

" because after 3 years on ED visa is where this could give issues extending it. "

You moaning, just because you scared to lose your pricviledges... Why not to expect it, if it is legal and issued by a thai embassy ? Because someone - let it be you or the immigration officer has a bad day - just think so ?

I'm not Mr Google and you try to show yourself as the knows it all person... so please justify with some legal sources your rants.... ( a note for yourself: you are not the thai law )

Just because after 3 years it can a fact be an issues to extend the visa, doesn't mean i abused it.

And it's quite clearly written in peoples passport who are tourist and who aren't, question is just who are more than just a tourist as written in their passport.

90 days in/90 days out - 180 days in/180 out is far from a new law and easy to find information about. You want me to google it for you?

¨

What privileges are you talking about that i should lose? Again you're making assumptions, just as you assumed that just because i was aware that extending ED visa after 3 years and decided to change for something else, made me abuse the system. Get your head out of your..... please!

You wan't me to start assuming here? Ok then, i guess you have an issue, because you cannot get a proper visa and work permit for the bar which you have in your lady friends name. I guess you have an issue, because you are one of those who will be affected by this crackdown. Get a proper visa dude..... How is that for assumptions?

"90 days in/90 days out - 180 days in/180 out is far from a new law and easy to find information about. You want me to google it for you?"

Yes please. And before you provide the link, check when the web page was last updated.

Cheers.....................

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You get a double or multiple entry and leave to come right back in its a NO GO as THAT IS BACK TO BACK that means your holiday winters are out and your condo is only useable for 30 days and NOT that lovely multiple entry visa you were issued back home...

You understand that ALL multiple entry visas if used back to back either by land or an airport can now be refused and very possibly will be ... with all your stuff stuck in Thailand and poss your air ticket home or route out of swampy too

If you take extended hols here, say retired and have a condo your now stuffed if you have a family you spend time with for any more than 30 days your stuffed unless you leave and go tour around another country while out here... yea great use of the time when your here to spend your winters or dont get to see family every year so do a 6 weeker or more. How about your family coming to spend the winter with you or a few months on a multiple entry which btw is LEGAL and carries no info on back to back ? they are also stuffed now... think about it you people who think its so great they "enforcing things" they really are messing this one up. ... or maybe you dont have any family who want to spend more than 30 days with you.. alt=rolleyes.gif.pagespeed.ce.hZ59UWKk-s.gif>

Parties over unless your on a work visa or retirement or a married visa...an ED or a package or 30 day max stay... anything else and your winging it.... ive sent this thread and another to all people I know... I suggest you do the same before some get badly caught out and maybe worse, stranded at some border.

If you come in with a multi non-O visa, you will get 90 days not 30.

Unless the rules have changed throughout this thread?

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It is harsh on the kids though.

It is, but still irresponsible to caught up in this crackdown if you have kids in Thailand as foreigner.

You cannot blame the country to actually finally start to enforce the rules/laws. You can only blame the parent who has got himself in visa trouble by doing continuously border running to be able to stay here, even though the law has been quite clear for a long time, that you can maximum be tourist for 180 days per year.

I think you are a few years out of date on the 180 days per year.

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Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

You live in a cave? There are so many people LIVING here on tourists visa's receiving income from Thailand. You never been to a restaurant/bar opened by a farang for his GF or wife? Nothing illegal about that, but they are on TOURIST visa and not really tourists are they? You never met a farang selling or renting property on the side? You never know an English Teacher? You want a link? PLEASE.

No Bill, I don't live in a cave at all.

I know many, many farang that have restaurants/bars ran by their wives/GF's, but don't know one of them on a tourist visa. All are on at a minimum of non-O visa. There is stupid, but to try to do this long term on a tourist visa? FYI, my wife ran a restaurant for almost 13 years while I have been here, so my nose was pretty close to the ground at that time.

"You never met a farang selling or renting property on the side?" Correct, I have never met a farang doing this, even during my years living in Pattaya.

English teachers? I know many but all with work permits. In defence, I don't know how the conversation schools work and the ones I know doing private lessons are breaking labour laws not immigration (as they already have WP's).

"You want a link?" Yes, that is what I asked for in the original post.

Unfortunately (due to the abusive nature of BillR) I have to confirm that he is right. I have met many many people working (mainly teaching) whilst on tourist visas with agencies and language centers paying the bill for their border runs and tourist visas. I am still exposed to the same environment that I have met many of them through but have to admit that this number has reduced over the past 2 years. On the whole they have been the less enjoyable demographic from that environment and do tend to be the ones that always plead poverty whilst clutching a bottle of Chang.

I just wonder what all these agencies and language schools are going to do now. They really can't afford to employ qualified teachers so it'll certainly be interesting to see how these businesses are faring in a few months time.

Thanks DV, for some insight into the tourist visa abuse. My post wasn't a trick one, I am genuinely interested. And I understand that my experience differs greatly from others.

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Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

You have indeed led a very sheltered life here!

There is quite a significant "industry" in Thailand providing transportation and related services to "Visa Runners"; large Buses and smaller Mini Vans are parked at several places in Bangkok (and in other major towns too I am sure) and simply wait for passengers. They are then driven to a particular Border and escorted across, sometimes entertained at a local Casino or Hotel Buffet whilst their paperwork is done then taken back into Thailand, back onto the bus and back to Bangkok (or wherever) the same day with a new Visa Exempt stamp.

There are literally dozens of these vehicles travelling every day, and the vast majority of passengers are Farang - so it's simple to calculate that there are many hundreds of these "Border / Visa Runners" in Bangkok alone.

Patrick

Visa run services was not the issue of my post. My question was about people working on tourist visas as I have seen reference to huge numbers of people in this position.

I know there are many, many people living in Thailand on visa exempt or back to back tourist visas. They have, some of them been doing this for years, each time they leave, they get a valid entry stamp in their passports. The law hasn't changed, just the rules and what parts are now being enforced.

It was a simple question asking for links, that's all.

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Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

You live in a cave? There are so many people LIVING here on tourists visa's receiving income from Thailand. You never been to a restaurant/bar opened by a farang for his GF or wife? Nothing illegal about that, but they are on TOURIST visa and not really tourists are they? You never met a farang selling or renting property on the side? You never know an English Teacher? You want a link? PLEASE.

No Bill, I don't live in a cave at all.

I know many, many farang that have restaurants/bars ran by their wives/GF's, but don't know one of them on a tourist visa. All are on at a minimum of non-O visa. There is stupid, but to try to do this long term on a tourist visa? FYI, my wife ran a restaurant for almost 13 years while I have been here, so my nose was pretty close to the ground at that time.

"You never met a farang selling or renting property on the side?" Correct, I have never met a farang doing this, even during my years living in Pattaya.

English teachers? I know many but all with work permits. In defence, I don't know how the conversation schools work and the ones I know doing private lessons are breaking labour laws not immigration (as they already have WP's).

"You want a link?" Yes, that is what I asked for in the original post.

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Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

I do know folk who teach private for years using tourist visas. They are out there.

Agreed, I know a few as well. But the ones I know are teaching at schools, with work permit and they are breaking labour laws, not immigration laws.

IMHO

Throughout this entire thread, I keep seeing reference to vast numbers of people, in Thailand, working on tourist visas/visa exempt stamps.

Could someone please provide a link to clarify these figures and what areas of work they are taking place?

I have only been living in Thailand for the last 17 years, legally working for the majority of that time, have met with probably thousands of expats here and have never met one (to my knowledge) that has not had the correct visa and work permit.

The only abuse of visa exemption/tourist visas (defined at today's immigration view on the subject) have been taken by people who are having an extended party, or want to stay here for reasons most definitely other than work.

Maybe I have led a very sheltered life here? But I don't think so..........................

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The officers are doing their job by following the rules. In any new set of procedures there will be those that do not comprehend exactly to the letter what is required and the innocent individuals will get their balls chopped off. There has to be a statement from the Embassies and Consulates what the exact rules are. It is beyond belief that in an age looking for transparency the final say is an officer who can determine yes or no to entry. When you allow individuals to act on a whim of their choosing then you give an opportunity for corruption to creep in. Be consistent and let everyone know what is the law in Thailand. I took a days leave to go to Immigaration and then was refused an extension of stay based on teaching though i had a valid work permit and was on a Non O (multiple). You have been teaching for 7 years but you are not in our system. Obviously not for i am on a Non O and do not have to report to immigration i leave the Kingdom every 90 days. No you must got and get the houseowner where you stay to sign this form they must pay x baht i want also to see that you have paid your tax. I said i had to pay the tax and show it to the Labour office before i got my current work permit which expires 31st March 2015. No i want you to show me the receipt. Well went the following friday after taking another days leave and another officer no i don't need this. I looked at the previous officer and she showed no sign of recognition and ended up making the tea for her boss.<deleted>. So i went away with the understanding- why empower staff that do not comprehend the rules.

Why were they classed as legal entries before?

Why did immigration have no problems stamping them in?

Who's in the wrong, immigration or the "tourist?

It is easy to blame one side to be wrong, but in this case it really does take two to tango..........................

Whereas I understand that this thread is based on one border crossing in the South, it appears to either be the writing on the wall, or a misinterpretation of the directive from Bkk.

What I don't understand is why there hasn't been an official statement from immigration. We hear it on TV, but not everyone reads TV.

And a further counter-statement from TAT. If tourist visas are such a problem, where would a genuine "tourist" stand with a double or triple entry tourist visa now? What would happen to said genuine tourist if they visited Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia during their stay in Thailand, re-entering after each trip?

The official stance was on visa exemption stamps, this obviously doesn't appear to be the case as it certainly doesn't end there.

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i stop being suprised here years ago.... alt=whistling.gif> ..buy a legal visa from a THAI consul (WHO HAVE THE POWER TO REFUSE) and then be refused entry at teh border...idiotic to say the least

Surely it is obvious, the incorect facts were stated when applying for the visa, and the immigration officer has just done an excellent job, of correcting what should not have been issued

If you buy insurance and do not declare the facts your premium will probably be accepted but if you claim it will probably be rejected same thing

If the immigration officer at the border is following directives such as a tourist is only allowed here for 30 days as stated in the OP, when a single tourist visa is valid for 60 days, then IMHO, a lot has been lost in interpretation and perhaps the immigration officer is not doing such an excellent job after all.

As an aside, I think it would be very interesting if someone took this to human rights. Someone who has married and has had children here, and has not recognized that he is doing wrong by back to back 30 day entries or back to back tourist visas because previously due to lax enforcement by immigration, he has been approved entry into the kingdom a multitude of times previously.

As many have pointed out, there has been no change to the laws. I wonder how a court would rule on that? Stupid yes, but illegal?

Don't forget, not everyone here is privileged to the updates we receive here on TV, there are a lot of naïve people out there who are not trying to work illegally or abuse the system as they see it (as they have been led to believe).

Just Sayin'..............................

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I think Rolf is trying to get a rise out of the posters. He must be bored in prison today.

Bored in prison.... Well long may he stay there, and one can only hope he gets a visit in the middle of the night by a 150kg inmate called bubba who wants a new "girlfriend" and Rolf may find himself blowing on a digerdoo a lot more than is comfortable

Wonder if he is still singing about two little boys? OK, there was nothing proved that way but still..................

He likely (the bar owner) took a look at you and assessed that that was what you wanted to hear.

Bar public relations at its best........................

In all probability, he is married, or at least living with a Thai. Why would he do that if he hated them so much?

OK, as to the above, if he is recently married or has just met the person he is living with.

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did you mean you worked int mill lad,,
eeee dem wer days
nowt to eat most of time,,,lol

but your right many worked bloody hard for a pitance

Many still do.........................

27 quid a week me for 1st year and then 35 quid a week for 2nd year int mill. 3rd year I double mi dough to 70 quid a week. Yr 1 I had to pay 15 quid a week ont bus jus fot privilege n it took me 1 hour each way to get thia n back ! My old feel used to tell me how lucky I wa cos I dint have to work outside int rain n snow. Donkey jackets n boyts n worked mi way up from thia ! Wouldn't have changed much tho !
Is this on topic ?

Luxury!! And you try telling the kids of today that, they won't believe you......................

Right, back on topic, lets not derail Jake's OP too much.

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did you mean you worked int mill lad,,

eeee dem wer days

nowt to eat most of time,,,lol

but your right many worked bloody hard for a pitance

Many still do.........................

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you should ask this question in the pattaya forum, i am really curious to hear their answer...

They'll probably going to say going to bars, drink, bring a bar girl home, play with her, then sleep all day, then go back to do the same things again the next night and the night after and after...

Excellent, another sly, passive aggressive dig at people in pattaya. Sorry your royal thainess, we're not worthy.

Please do tell what do they do all day? Go to temple and meditate?

That's what I used to do, but that was 15 years ago..................

My temples were spread out a bit then, but most visited were those on Soi Yamoto, Soi Post Office, Soi 8, Beach Road, Pattayaland Soi 2 and occasionally Walking Street.

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.

Reading some of the stuff you post, i would have guessed you are the " what i really do" alt=w00t.gif>

I won`t deny that this is the way it has gone for me over the years.

This has nothing to do with age, because I`m not too old and still fit but social has become one of the most expensive pass times in Thailand over the years and being what I guess applies to many of us, I have to live on a budget. My family and I still live very comfortably but I just cannot afford to do all the wine, women and song activities like I could 10 years ago or more or even 5 years ago. So I have become a more stay at home person not really by choice but more by necessity. So there you have it, I am being honest and open.

I am still waiting for someone to invite me to their sex, rave and rock and roll party, but I think the invite got lost in the post.

" but I just cannot afford to do all the wine, women and song activities like I could 10 years ago"

BJ, when I was at that stage, I gave up singing, it helped for a while..............................

On a normal day I go through the following:

05:30 - Alarm clock (and alarms on two mobiles) goes off (akin to an air raid warning)

06:00 - After shower, shave, etc, ready for caffeine & nicotine kick-start followed by a half hour mellow period

06:30 - Lift arrives, off to work

07:00 - Open up the office, check the servers, get rid of the spam mail from all accounts that has got through

08:00 - Coffee again

10:00 - Coffee again

12:00 - Lunch break, crossword time

13:00 - Back to the grind

14:30 - Coffee again

16:30 - Home time

17:30 - Walk the dogs (3 - 5 km everyday), come home and collapse, recover & stagger to the shower

19:00 - Dinner time

21:00 - Walk the dogs, off leash

23:59 - Make sure the alarms are set for the next day's adventure

It gets a bit tense when I'm away from the office.........................

You have to remember that it hasn't been law for that long that people have to wear helmets. Besides, if the two people in the accident weren't wearing full facial helmets, then it wouldn't have stopped them receiving the injuries they did.

Not so sure about the OP title either, Life is cheap in Thailand. Maybe it is just me, but i always reckoned that if you took out a contract on someone it would be cheaper here than in "1st world countries".

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if they can afford a house, they should be able to afford 400,000 in the bank. And if the are working illegally, they are not wanted in Thailand. Just as they are not wanted in any other country. Nothing to do with Thailand shouting itself in the foot, etc.

They are certainly wanted by their students and the parents of their students....

Finance for a house and car are easy enough. Getting 400k in cash and locking it up for 2 months every year, not so much.

Drifting for a second Mario, if they are illegal, ie, working without a work permit, how are they getting finance?

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People on a Non O visa will be able to go,enter freely without any hindrance whatsoever. Why because if you are married they cannot refuse you to visit family..... by law this is.

It's about time they are cracking down on border runners with just a single tourist visa. Who knows, maybe we will see better teachers. alt=clap2.gif>

Bit naive and insensitive, not to mention very smug was your last paragragh. If this crackdown really does get enforced like they are saying it is not just the wrong un's and people working here illegally tha it will affect. It will/could also affect decent honest people like offshore workers who visit here say every 2 or 3 months for holiday or family reasons. This could go way beyond affecting just the border runners/cheap charlies., etc.

I doubt it will affect oil workers or anyother kind of workers who are outside the country(making their money) for more than 180 days a year as they are not tax liable. I dont think they have any problem with these guys.

They'll have a problem with them trying to access Thailand six times a year on visa-exempt.

There's going to be a lot of explaining to do at the airport for a lot of these guys.

I don't think there will be any problem for them doing this at all. At least coming into the country anyway.

Where they will have problems, at least the ones who are in a rotation that isn't 28/28, ie, the ones that will have more than 30 days on their off-time and will have to account for any period over 30 days in country to immigration. Off course for the ones that are married, they can get a 60 day extension on the visa exempt, but not all are married.

And for those married here, before anyone starts that they should have a dependency visa based on marriage, it isn't necessarily the best option for them. To renew the extension, they have to be in country within a 30 day period of the renewal date. On rotation, this is not a given and in most cases difficult to change rotation dates to ensure they are in country for that time. A multi-entry non-O would in cases like this, would be the correct option for them. What was immigration thinking when they made the multi entry available in the first place?

A lot of people posting here think that all rotation work is based around 30 days on, 30 days off. This isn't the case. Not all country's Labour laws state that offshore workers are restricted to 28 days offshore (as in the case in Thailand) and not all O&G workers work offshore.

As for the other multitude of rotation fields that are out there, well........................

Pessimistic Optimist just about covers it for me.........................

Always hope for everything to work out for the best, but don't underestimate the power of Sod's law.

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3500B for gas to Korat???

Get a bus.

I can get from Khon Kaen to Bkk in my car for 900 Baht.

Any woman that says, "up to you" more than one a year is a money-grabbing ex pro. - dump her before she dumps you.


Does she have a job?

She had to pay her friend to take us. He also slept the night at her mom's house. I thought 3,500 baht was too much as well.

As well as being cheap, I think you might be a little simple to.

Simply from under the bridge me thinks.......................

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OP, do you consider yourself a genius on Thailand because you are here at the minute?

I know people who visit Thailand from the UK who have in all likeliness forgotten more about this country than you will ever acquire regardless of how long you have been here.

They once told me about buffalos, ladyboys and why girls wear numbers in night-time entertainment venues. Their knowledge of temples was somewhat vague, but there you go. I remembered most.........................

did you ever meet NO.42 in sabai land,you know the one in the baby pink outfit? or was it 24?.

patts.1980"s she learnt me a lot about Thailand,30 yrs and still don't know nuffing.well just a bit.

You are teasing aren't you?

You do know that both 42 & 24 were/are blokes...............................