
jayboy
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Posts posted by jayboy
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You are right Jayboy the truth is slowly emerging.
As I posted way back :
Mr. Polenghi is one of more than 90 deaths that resulted from the political violence in April-May 2010, when the Redshirts occupied central Bangkok to demand a parliamentary dissolution and new election, but were met with military operation directed by then-PM Abhisit Vejjajeeva.
All the deaths RESULTED FROM, got that?
And who started the political violence that led to all these deaths?
Hay, love the way you manage to get in an insult or few with every post.
Clearly there is a larger picture and your interpretation is evident through a long if unconvincing series of posts.But the thread is about something much more specific, namely the killing by the army of an Italian journalist.I can see why you don't wish to address the matter of the court's findings.However as I advised another member don't be afraid of the truth.
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Just like the young nurse who was shot and killed by the army.
And you're going on about believing propaganda!
I don't think the murder of civilians in Wat Pathum has come to trial yet but the view the army was guilty of abuse is very far from propaganda.I appreciate you are rattled by today's court finding but it is always better to embrace the truth.
I have never seen anything like the truth from your posts. Proto Fascists was a real gem.
No court has ruled on the deaths in the Wat but you pre-judge it as murder.
I accept the court's findings, vague as they are. What is sickening is to see the grieving Polengi relatives being used by the red shirts as sort of guinea pigs to add to the DSI's targeting of the opposition..
Another rattled apologist for repression.Slow but surely the truth is emerging.The earlier claims of Suthep on the incident have been exposed as a grotesque lie
The irony is that nobody is suggesting, certainly not me, that elements in the redshirts were free of blame.
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Just like the young nurse who was shot and killed by the army.
And you're going on about believing propaganda!
I don't think the murder of civilians in Wat Pathum has come to trial yet but the view the army was guilty of abuse is very far from propaganda.I appreciate you are rattled by today's court finding but it is always better to embrace the truth.
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It's just you.
Is it just me or is it a happy coincidence that Khunying Porntip was pushed aside one week before this ruling was made?
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My sympathies for his family, he was only trying to do a job
BUT.
The fact is he was in a dangerous live fire zone during an exchange of gunfire between armed protesters and armed soldiers.
Some places call that collateral damage? What do you call it?
Murder
So the army and protestors where murdering each other?
Or do you mean that the army was murdering the protestors and the protestors fired back in self-defense?
No I am simply commenting on the finding of the court this morning, namely the killing by the Thai army of the Italian journalist.
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My sympathies for his family, he was only trying to do a job
BUT.
The fact is he was in a dangerous live fire zone during an exchange of gunfire between armed protesters and armed soldiers.
Some places call that collateral damage? What do you call it?
Murder
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"Skating a bit close to the ice with that last comment, aren't we?"No, I mean the original Thai constitution, which though I am assured closely modelled the English system, managed to avoid having a senate made up of inter-bred hi-so snobs decided on nothing more than primogeniture descendency.
Skating a bit close to the ice with that last comment, aren't we?
Always strikes me as odd that many of the reactionary types on this forum turn
out to be very chippy on matters of class, odd because they give
uncritical support to Thailand's entrenched upper class.Perhaps they
should join their comrades on the red shirt side, paticularly if they
have a big problem with "primogeniture descendency".
Always a good thing to skate close to the ice unless you are a professional.
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Skating on thin ice is best avoided, as is skating too close to the edge.
Point taken
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Sounds right. I always take everything including tabien baan and work permit, just in case they ask for something more.Thanks again Arkady.
So besides TM13, TM22. Certificate of residency, red book, passport, photo's , 5700 bath and myself nothing else is needed ?
Sent from my HTC Desire S
Probably sensible to take everything but I happened to talk to my lawyer's assistant yesterday who has been processing PR renewals for many years.She said in her experience tabien baan and work permit had never been asked for.
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So, foreign countries wouldn't have had a problem with the Dem government, since they came to power through the defection of MPs.Of course there would be no issue if the Democrats won an election.Nor would there be an issue if MPs defected.Foreign countries have no quarrel with Thailand and look if at all possible to get along.However a coup whether from the military or the judiciary would not be welcome.What would they do about it? Probably not a great deal.
The internal reaction would be the only significant one.
Sent from my shoe phone.
Well that's in the past so we know foreign governments had no problem with the Dems coming to power that way.It was within the rules of the parliamentary system and the grisly details wouldn
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Morality is a different question altogether.But on legitimacy the position of the international community towards Thailand is very clear.
Your naivety borders idiocy if you think that international recognition and support in any way relates to the legitimacy or morality of a government.There are many facets of this struggle for the heart and soul of Thailand, this is one of them. Anonymity is desirable when dealing with a political machine like the criminal Thaksin's, PTP and redshirt alliance. After all it has displayed it willingness to crush any dissidence through litigation, miscommunication, censorship, personal threats, violent measure and even killings.The use of the mask is an advantage in this political climate, it also resonates with the international community. This government is very sensitive to international opinion, after all its depending on this community to fund the growing Thai debt burden. The mask is generally recognise as a symbol of the democratic struggle against a draconian government, as such it identifies the protestors likewise. It gives them international legitimacy and will be a beacon for international support. As we have seen its already having and effect on the criminal Thaksin's political alliance as they feel the need to stymie this movement with threats of questionably legal or moral action.
Overall I feel its a very clever marketing ploy and a relatively safe option.
You are profoundly mistaken about many points, but I will emphasize just one - international legitimacy.The current government enjoys unanimous support overseas:there is not one government that questions it not least because it has an unquestionable democratic mandate.Any government which followed other than through an election victory (ie through a military coup or more likely a trumped up judicial intervention) would become an outcast in the world community.Life would of course go on but the consequences would be appalling.
Western governments on the whole prefer to deal with governments that win general elections.
It doesn't mean that they don't deal with many other forms of appointed governments either. Does anyone think they wouldn't deal with the democrats of they could win an election? If the same thing happened as before with MPs defecting, the world would just get on with it and deal with it.
Of course there would be no issue if the Democrats won an election.Nor would there be an issue if MPs defected.Foreign countries have no quarrel with Thailand and look if at all possible to get along.However a coup whether from the military or the judiciary would not be welcome.What would they do about it? Probably not a great deal.
The internal reaction would be the only significant one.
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Morality is a different question altogether.But on legitimacy the position of the international community towards Thailand is very clear.
Did any country refuse to recognise the Democrat government as the legitimate government of Thailand? What is your point?
No but you have missed the point.Given the excellent democratic credentials of the current government there would be strongly adverse international reaction if it was removed through a coup or judicial activism.But more troubling for the unelected elites would be the angry internal reaction and unpredictable outcome - hence in my personal view the probability is the government will see out its term.
If at the next general election the government is so unpopular as you suggest no doubt the Thai people will be seeking an alternative.
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Your naivety borders idiocy if you think that international recognition and support in any way relates to the legitimacy or morality of a government.There are many facets of this struggle for the heart and soul of Thailand, this is one of them. Anonymity is desirable when dealing with a political machine like the criminal Thaksin's, PTP and redshirt alliance. After all it has displayed it willingness to crush any dissidence through litigation, miscommunication, censorship, personal threats, violent measure and even killings.
The use of the mask is an advantage in this political climate, it also resonates with the international community. This government is very sensitive to international opinion, after all its depending on this community to fund the growing Thai debt burden. The mask is generally recognise as a symbol of the democratic struggle against a draconian government, as such it identifies the protestors likewise. It gives them international legitimacy and will be a beacon for international support. As we have seen its already having and effect on the criminal Thaksin's political alliance as they feel the need to stymie this movement with threats of questionably legal or moral action.
Overall I feel its a very clever marketing ploy and a relatively safe option.
You are profoundly mistaken about many points, but I will emphasize just one - international legitimacy.The current government enjoys unanimous support overseas:there is not one government that questions it not least because it has an unquestionable democratic mandate.Any government which followed other than through an election victory (ie through a military coup or more likely a trumped up judicial intervention) would become an outcast in the world community.Life would of course go on but the consequences would be appalling.
Morality is a different question altogether.But on legitimacy the position of the international community towards Thailand is very clear.
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Poor logic.A better example is the use of the swastika since this often crops up in Thailand.It cannot be detached from its Nazi link any more than Guy Fawkes can be detached from attempted regicide.It is true however that many Thais have no understanding of the historical connotations but there is a world of difference between ditzy Chiangmai teenagers(a recent swastika use example) and the so called "educate" people with their Guy Fawkes masks.However they should be allowed to demonstrate and wear what masks they like - they can't hide their malice and their deep stupidity.All this historical arguments are pointless, the people behind this campaign make it clear what is the source of the image and what is the meaning they intend to convey from it.
What some people here are doing is akin to argue with a Christian that by wearing a crucifix they are condoning the brutality of the ancient Romans. In other words cherry picking a historical moment related to a particular symbol to ascribe to it connotations not intended by the person using that symbol.
Another more recent example would be to assume that every person you see wearing a Che T-Shirt is a communist revolutionary. Symbols can transcend their origins or acquire new meanings in the course of history, so instead of arguing over irrelevant historical details try to see what this people message is.
Is it a "Guy Fawkes" mask or a "V for Vendetta" mask? Most people (not just Thais) would relate the mask to the movie, and not know anything about Guy Fawkes.
That's a rather odd thing to say since Guy Fawkes and the gunpowder plot is referenced throughout the movie.
In any case most educated people both inside and outside Thailand would understand the Guy Fawkes connection.As previously noted however the fatuous "educate" element who look down on most of their fellow citizens probably haven't the faintest idea.
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All this historical arguments are pointless, the people behind this campaign make it clear what is the source of the image and what is the meaning they intend to convey from it.
What some people here are doing is akin to argue with a Christian that by wearing a crucifix they are condoning the brutality of the ancient Romans. In other words cherry picking a historical moment related to a particular symbol to ascribe to it connotations not intended by the person using that symbol.
Another more recent example would be to assume that every person you see wearing a Che T-Shirt is a communist revolutionary. Symbols can transcend their origins or acquire new meanings in the course of history, so instead of arguing over irrelevant historical details try to see what this people message is.
Poor logic.A better example is the use of the swastika since this often crops up in Thailand.It cannot be detached from its Nazi link any more than Guy Fawkes can be detached from attempted regicide.It is true however that many Thais have no understanding of the historical connotations but there is a world of difference between ditzy Chiangmai teenagers(a recent swastika use example) and the so called "educate" people with their Guy Fawkes masks.However they should be allowed to demonstrate and wear what masks they like - they can't hide their malice and their deep stupidity.
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There are many facets of this struggle for the heart and soul of Thailand, this is one of them. Anonymity is desirable when dealing with a political machine like the criminal Thaksin's, PTP and redshirt alliance. After all it has displayed it willingness to crush any dissidence through litigation, miscommunication, censorship, personal threats, violent measure and even killings.
The use of the mask is an advantage in this political climate, it also resonates with the international community. This government is very sensitive to international opinion, after all its depending on this community to fund the growing Thai debt burden. The mask is generally recognise as a symbol of the democratic struggle against a draconian government, as such it identifies the protestors likewise. It gives them international legitimacy and will be a beacon for international support. As we have seen its already having and effect on the criminal Thaksin's political alliance as they feel the need to stymie this movement with threats of questionably legal or moral action.
Overall I feel its a very clever marketing ploy and a relatively safe option.
You are profoundly mistaken about many points, but I will emphasize just one - international legitimacy.The current government enjoys unanimous support overseas:there is not one government that questions it not least because it has an unquestionable democratic mandate.Any government which followed other than through an election victory (ie through a military coup or more likely a trumped up judicial intervention) would become an outcast in the world community.Life would of course go on but the consequences would be appalling.
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Strangely twisted article with Kavi displaying his usual inability to think clearly.
Why?
Because Myanmar has been out in the cold for decades.Thailand never has been
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No, I mean the original Thai constitution, which though I am assured closely modelled the English system, managed to avoid having a senate made up of inter-bred hi-so snobs decided on nothing more than primogeniture descendency.
Skating a bit close to the ice with that last comment, aren't we?
Always strikes me as odd that many of the reactionary types on this forum turn
out to be very chippy on matters of class, odd because they give
uncritical support to Thailand's entrenched upper class.Perhaps they
should join their comrades on the red shirt side, paticularly if they
have a big problem with "primogeniture descendency".
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You assume I don't like it? Wrong , I don't like your condescending attitude that Thais should know of some obscure 400 year-old piece of English history before they use a protest concept from a recent movie.
Guy Fawkes is hardly obscure.
However even if the cultural reference is only to the V for Vendetta movie (which I have seen) it still betrays asinine stupidity and lack of understanding - given the subject matter and context of the movie - on the part of those extreme right wing reactionaries who are so quick to condemn "uneducate" people.Ignorant tossers.
I have to agree that those who condemn people for their lack of education are "tossers" - that was the point that I was making.
I don't condemn people for their lack of education, far from it - especially since intelligence isn't limited to the well educated.
I do condemn those who preen endlessly about their intelligence and moral superiority (like the fascists we are discussing), when the truth is they are both stupid and self centred.
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You assume I don't like it? Wrong , I don't like your condescending attitude that Thais should know of some obscure 400 year-old piece of English history before they use a protest concept from a recent movie.
Guy Fawkes is hardly obscure.
However even if the cultural reference is only to the V for Vendetta movie (which I have seen) it still betrays asinine stupidity and lack of understanding - given the subject matter and context of the movie - on the part of those extreme right wing reactionaries who are so quick to condemn "uneducate" people.Ignorant tossers.
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Why would they have any interest in the ancient history of a distant, small country which has very little influence on Thailand?
Possibly because the parliamentary system which is a central element of the Thai constitution is modelled on the example of that distant island, the parliament that Guy Fawkes attempted to blow up.
Strangely enough, at the time the Thai constitution was written there were quite a few other parliamentary democracies around, and while there a few similarities to the English system of 1600, there are just as many dissimilarities. Should "educated" thais be required to learn the history of all, starting with the ancient Greeks? Or is your criticism due to your anglocentric view of the world?
BTW Thai education policy makers might be reluctant to include incidents of attempted regicide.
I'm afraid whether you like it or not - and you clearly don't - all parliamentary systems including that of Thailand are modelled to a greater or lesser extent on the British one.That's why the British parliament is known as the Mother of Parliaments.It doesn't mean that each country doesn't adopt characteristics from other models or tailor to take account of local considerations - but the basic model is British.
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Why would they have any interest in the ancient history of a distant, small country which has very little influence on Thailand?
Possibly because the parliamentary system which is a central element of the Thai constitution is modelled on the example of that distant island, the parliament that Guy Fawkes attempted to blow up.
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Interesting choice of Guy Fawkes by these proto fascists.Obviously they have not bothered to study history, or they would have seen that Guy Fawkes' historic objective was not really consistent with their professed aims.Not a very impressive initiative from these "educate" people, precisely the ones that criticise the PM for her poor English when they are unable to string an accurate sentence together.
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A rather informative and relevant post has had a large portion of its content removed due to fair use. If the poster has a link to the article, I am sure there are a lot of people who would benefit from reading it.
Sorry for that.
I would think that the following is the article Robby Nz was refering to.
Article includes the British Nobel Prize winner Sir Peter Medawar as a Muslim.He wasn't - had a British mother and a Lebanese Christian father
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Anyone like me depressed and bored by the bar talk comments on this thread? Feel like a dose of intelligence and sanity ? Then read Simon Jenkins's views:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-echo-chamber-mass-hysteria
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Thai Troops Likely Shot Italian Journalist Fabio Polenghi: Inquest
in Thailand News
Posted
He's baaaaack! Arisman again.