jayboy

those calling for a coup who projected 1m protesters and only 12,000 turned up

Did the 80,000 police that the National Police Chief said would be in place turn up? The 23,000 Police Volunteers?

It's one thing for a civilian rally organizer to make false claims (eg. Boonlert's claim or Jatuporn's repeated boasts of a 1,000,000 protesters, as well as million of this and a million of that, or in this topic, Issan Rambo's 200,000 Red Shirts in Bangkok).

It's an altogether different thing for an official representing authority at taxpayers' expense to make the exact same sort of outrageously bogus claims.

.

Huh? Is he completely nuts?He's complaining that there weren't enough police around yesterday, or more specifically the numbers were fewer than the authorities had earlier suggested.Unbelievable and yet if there had been a disaster yesterday and the police had not done their job professionally he would have been crowing.

Watching the news on channel 7 now,see the scum already attacking the police

why are they scum? is it because they attacking police or because they are in the opposition of who you support?

for me they are scum because:

1/ they are attacking the Police who are there to keep order

2/ they are attacking the democratically elected government

enough said

Not scum but more frightened and deluded though there were certainly some violent thugs in the Pitak Siam ranks.Altogether a humiliating defeat for the fascists and their supporters.Two interesting points - firstly the almost complete absence of young people at the rally.Secondly some very clear signals from very influential highly placed sources that they reject the grotesque lie at the centre of Boonlert's platform.Is this the end? No, the yellow shirts and their allies will regroup but it will be difficult for them to make progress..I'm not in the numbers game but the max 30000 total was comically less than the 500000 projected.

And the vast red army of Thai patriots wasn't even mobilised.

Well that is the way to really take the power away from the authorities. Every speech should begin with a plea for peaceful protest.

If they won't fight, what will ptp do?

What will PTP do: Nothing stay in power and fill their pockets.....Maybe from time to time shoot a M79 grenade into the mob....

Look at the former Eastern block....every government was hated but they could stay in power for decades.

If you control police, military, courts and have a system to keep everyone in line than the people have no choices.

The comparison with Eastern Europe is absurd.All civilised countries control the police and army.In Thailand the military tend to be more independent.The courts in Thailand, though far from perfect, do aim at independence.In Thailand unpopular governments, such as the last one, can be voted out.So can this one if it falls out of favour with the Thai people.

Green light supporters have been attacked by Siam Pitak guards in front of the Royal Turf Club.To be far fair to Siam Pitak organisers they have apologised for these thugs behaviour.Some pf the usual suspects still ranting about red shirt violence?

how many buildings did the Siam Pitak burn down in anger?

None.What's your point? As I mentioned it's encouraging Pitak Siam have condemned the disgusting behaviour of their fascist thugs.

Green light supporters have been attacked by Siam Pitak guards in front of the Royal Turf Club.To be far fair to Siam Pitak organisers they have apologised for these thugs behaviour.Some pf the usual suspects still ranting about red shirt violence?

Here were go again. I swear, tanks by Tuesday.

Got a link?

Dont' do links but just google.As I say so far Pitak Siam have been responsible and distanced itself from this filth.

Green light supporters have been attacked by Siam Pitak guards in front of the Royal Turf Club.To be far fair to Siam Pitak organisers they have apologised for these thugs behaviour.Some pf the usual suspects still ranting about red shirt violence?

Interesting that the usual suspects are happy to get personal but don't apparently feel able to address the predicament in which they find themselves, hencing the wriggling and evasion on the matter of a military coup.

Buchholz: are you in favor of a coup to bring down this current government?

What references do you need, to answer this?

A definition for coup?

Or don't you know, who is the current government?

So:

""is it acceptable to you that a retired general calls for a coup against an elected government ??"

THAT general, THIS government...

Comprende?

They (usual suspects) are in a bind so perhaps we shouldn't harp on.They loathe the current government yet know that a new general election would simply return Yingluck, possibly with a bigger majority.In their hearts they would like a military coup but the more intelligent of them know they cannot call for this openly and the few astute ones know it would be probably counter productive (as before) to their cause.

I cannot get rid of the feeling that the Government are making an absolute cluster <deleted> out of this entire situation. They have successfully turned what would have been a peaceful, short, trouble free rally into something that could now prove highly problematic. The Government seem intent on garnering an overtly aggressive response and 50 000 police officers is overkill to state the least. The command and control issues will be interesting. It seems the police are drafting in units from all over the country now. 150 police left our town for Bangkok yesterday - 900 km away. There is so much fuss being made by the Government that there are now busloads preparing to travel up from here so that they can join the protest and see what all the fuss is about. I think if the current Government had to deal with anything remotely like the red shirts inflicted on Bangkok for a month or two, they would all implode. It's going to get even more interesting I think as Governmental panic sets in !

I'm confused.On this forum the usual suspects were arguing fervently only yesterday that the government was bent on stirring up violence at the Pitak Siam rally.Now they appear upset that the government is taking steps to ensure that violence will not occur and that the rally will proceed peacefully.I'm not sure they can have it both ways.

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

Is your question serious? Government warn that demonstrators will cause trouble dressed as "red shirts". Real red shirts infiltrate demo and cause trouble. Police wade in and call for help from their 23k volunteers. Lots of demonstrators get hurt. Government say "warned you about this". Have to stop this lot organizing anymore demos because of all this bad behaviour and injuries. Not to be confused with those peaceful rallies organized by those nice red shirt boys. Do you see who might benefit - it's called propoganda; and this is just about as subtle as Goebels, Stalin and Mao.

I guess that events today and sensible government action have made your theory rather threadbare, though frankly it never made much sense.It is the government that is seeking to preserve civil liberties and pre-empt violence.Your theory just doesn't make sense, no matter how many of the usual suspects sign up to it.Anyway we shall soon see.If the rally passes off peacefully, we may expect your retraction?

Some might take a different view.Some might think it would play into the hands of those who hate democracy annd want to "freeze" Thailand.Some might think that it is long established fascist behaviour to attempt to provoke an incident.Some might wonder why a very popular government with a strong mandate would wish to antagonise the military and old elites.A lot of things to wonder about and all conspire to demolish your theory that the PTP would benefit from violence.

As it happens the dinosurs' timing is terrible so I'm fairly sure the rally will pass without incident on this occasion.

I don't think that the government is very popular. And strong mandate? They bought their mandate...

But I think the demonstrations will give a good indication how much the government is hated or not.

I see.Bought their mandate.Thailand eagerly embraces Boonlert,hero of the hour.Time to exit the discussion.

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

Who will benefit? PTP will as it gives them more ammunition to forcibly prevent future protests (excepting by the red shirts, of course)

Some might take a different view.Some might think it would play into the hands of those who hate democracy annd want to "freeze" Thailand.Some might think that it is long established fascist behaviour to attempt to provoke an incident.Some might wonder why a very popular government with a strong mandate would wish to antagonise the military and old elites.A lot of things to wonder about and all conspire to demolish your theory that the PTP would benefit from violence.

As it happens the dinosurs' timing is terrible so I'm fairly sure the rally will pass without incident on this occasion.

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Re-writing history again. It didn't start with PAD 'lawlessness' - it was the BIB demonstrating yet again how not to control a demonstration. Using tear gas canisters as missiles - causing death & injury - was the worst part.

The police totally failed to control the PAD when they occupied the airports and they completely disappeared (under instructions from their desired leader) when asked to do their duty in 2010.

And that is why it is very worrying what sort of balls-up they manage to concoct this time adding their 23,000 'volunteers'. Add to all that Chalerm & you have a recipe for disaster. I hope I'm wrong but the lead-up strongly points to violence, not started by the protesters.

I would have thought that the PAD lawlessness preceded the police action (in fact I know it did) but let someone else argue that out.

As to the impending Pitak Siam rally my guess is that it will pass off peacefully.However the question one has to ask, should any violence occur, is - who will benefit?

Perhaps marginally relevant is the surprising reality that some African countries, certainly Kenya, are rather advanced in processing payments by mobile phone.This certainly might be an interesting technology for countries like Thailand to look at.

It would certainly be interesting if members were getting ID cards. A photo with the name blacked out would clear up any doubt. We've had one or two members claiming to have been given a national health card when they got PR, but when I asked about this with the issuing authority the answer was a definite "no."

Given that we all have a valid "mai lek prachachon" I don't see why they couldn't in theory issue a Thai ID card.

That would be great and I would be delighted if my extreme scepticism was shown to be groundless.

The other newspaper also mentions that the Constitutional Court has accepted petitions to order Pitak Siam to call off their rally. Petitions were filed by former senator Ruangkrai Leekijwattana, Pheu Thai Party member Singthong Buachum and lawyer Nuengdin Wimuttinant. The petitions cited Section 68 of the constitution.

In another democratic event Surachet Chaikosol, an Ayutthaya-based red shirt leader and adviser to Transport Minister Chatchart Sittipan has paid for and erected some billboards with a nice image of our PM and k. Thaksin. It seems he signed with "my family is red".

A major headache.

BTW the article, mentioned by our esteemed member jayboy, with the ABAC poll which was reported on the 28th of October, doesn't have 94% of the Bangkok respondents being against the Saturday rally. It's more that percentage against a coup. Actually it seems 62.6% thought political rallies were a good and normal practice in a democracy while 37.4% disagreed, reasoning they could bring about unrest.

It would have been useful if you had made it clear that my post mentioning the 94% figure was completely accurate based on the other paper November article (the one I was referring to) which you were kind enough to pm me.

An interesting misunderstanding, dear jayboy. You referred to what someone said about the ABAC poll, I referred to the description of the poll. Just a different approach

I'm not sure there was any misunderstanding or a different approach.I saw a current article in the other paper which I accurately summarised expressing no opinion.(Usual suspects' claims I made it up have been removed).The earlier article you identified was helpful in providing context but I wasn't having a debate (I'm sceptical about ABAC as you know).I was just pointing out there was a relevant article - that's all.

Never heard of this, nor have two friends with longstanding PR, nor has my lawyer.

And?

..therefore suggest there is zero chance of foreigners with PR being provided with ID cards, and the suggestion is without any foundation.Red Book is really a PR holder's ID.Perhaps Camerata or Arkady, always very reliable, would comment.

Thailand not getting enough attention?? Where have the Nation reporters been hiding this month?

We've had the leaders of the two biggest superpowers here in Bangkok meeting with Yingluck, while the Thai Prime Minister was invited too meet with the British Prime minister a few days before that.

Hardly being ignored,is it?

I'm afraid it is a sad comment on the state of Thai journalism, or at least the virulent bias of the English language press.Somehow they have ovelooked that Thailand's diplomatic relations have improved dramatically under this government after the debacle of Abhisit and Kasit in this area.Yingluck has a great deal to be proud of.Again we have the embittered unelected elite and their middle class camp followers enraged that the world acknowledges the strength and legitimacy of a democratically elected Thai government.The English language press acts generally as a mouthpiece for these disgruntled folk.

The article merely states that Yingluk is unable to contribute to any meaningful discussions with other countries'leaders. Prior to becoming PM she has never shown any interest in politics, international relations, history etc.

She has done an excellent job at cutting ribbons but we cannot expect anything more from her.

Fair enough, but possibly you underestimate the difference in international relations that courtesy and a sunny temperament (think Reagan) can make.Imagine how relieved foreign leaders are not having to deal with the deranged Kasit.Look I'm not suggesting she is a foreign affairs whiz but the improvement in foreign relations in her time has been palpable.If she surrounds herself with quality people and remembers she is CEO (and doesn't have to kowtow to Chairman Big Brother).I think her instincts are ok.

Has anyone been given an ID card when their name was entered on the tabien baan?

Dream on. LOL

The reason why I asked is that I got my name put on the tabien baan yesterday. The tesabaan wanted to issue me with an ID card but they couldn't because the machine was broken. However, they took my telephone number and said they would call me when it was mended.

Thaiowl: Don't listen to all the sceptics here. You are right, there is a software glitch preventing them issuing ID cards to foreigners with PR.

You will get your ID card soon.

Never heard of this, nor have two friends with longstanding PR, nor has my lawyer.

National intelligence agencies are at the service and direction of governments everywhere.Does the CIA consider itself impartial? Does MI6? Does SVR (successor to KGB)?

As to the Siam Pitak rally there are obviously some decent well meaning followers, although in my view misguided.But there are some dangerous and malevolent elements in its aptly named dinosaur leadership.The current government is not disputing Siam Pitak's right to hold the rally given that Thailand is a free society.But it seems entirely reasonable given the appalling record of the last few years beginning with the PAD lawlessness on the streets that the government through the national intelligence agencies should monitor the assembly to ensure that things don't get out of hand.Indeed they would be neglecting their duties if they didn't.

Thailand not getting enough attention?? Where have the Nation reporters been hiding this month?

We've had the leaders of the two biggest superpowers here in Bangkok meeting with Yingluck, while the Thai Prime Minister was invited too meet with the British Prime minister a few days before that.

Hardly being ignored,is it?

I'm afraid it is a sad comment on the state of Thai journalism, or at least the virulent bias of the English language press.Somehow they have ovelooked that Thailand's diplomatic relations have improved dramatically under this government after the debacle of Abhisit and Kasit in this area.Yingluck has a great deal to be proud of.Again we have the embittered unelected elite and their middle class camp followers enraged that the world acknowledges the strength and legitimacy of a democratically elected Thai government.The English language press acts generally as a mouthpiece for these disgruntled folk.

The other newspaper also mentions that the Constitutional Court has accepted petitions to order Pitak Siam to call off their rally. Petitions were filed by former senator Ruangkrai Leekijwattana, Pheu Thai Party member Singthong Buachum and lawyer Nuengdin Wimuttinant. The petitions cited Section 68 of the constitution.

In another democratic event Surachet Chaikosol, an Ayutthaya-based red shirt leader and adviser to Transport Minister Chatchart Sittipan has paid for and erected some billboards with a nice image of our PM and k. Thaksin. It seems he signed with "my family is red".

A major headache.

BTW the article, mentioned by our esteemed member jayboy, with the ABAC poll which was reported on the 28th of October, doesn't have 94% of the Bangkok respondents being against the Saturday rally. It's more that percentage against a coup. Actually it seems 62.6% thought political rallies were a good and normal practice in a democracy while 37.4% disagreed, reasoning they could bring about unrest.

It would have been useful if you had made it clear that my post mentioning the 94% figure was completely accurate based on the other paper November article (the one I was referring to) which you were kind enough to pm me.

The other paper reports an ABAC poll stating 94% Bangkokians object to the forthcoming Siam Pitak rally.

If you ever watched Yes Minister/PM you should know that poll always get the results desired. By framing the questions the right way, the answers can be steered as easily as sheep by a trained dog.

"Are you in favour of the upcoming political rally likely to cause traffic chaos, interfere with public transport, and which could erupt into violence that may lead to civil war?"

I have sympathy for your view and am generally sceptical about ABAC polls, their weaknesses often compounded by poor reporting in the English language newspapers.

They, in the absence of polls with a track record and sound methodology, remain a useful pointer not much else.

As for the 94% figure my earlier post was an entirely accurate summary of the other paper report (though perhaps inevitably I was accused of making it up).I made no claim on the accuracy of that report.My gut instinct in fact is that support for the rally is much higher than the low number the 94% figure suggests.

The other paper reports an ABAC poll stating 94% Bangkokians object to the forthcoming Siam Pitak rally.

What evidence can you provide to support your statement that Prem is not apolitical?

It's not often that comments on Thai Visa leave me speechless, but this one had me struggling for breath like a landed goldfish.