jayboy

Comical how the Yingluck/Suu Kyi meeting doesn't compute with the usual suspects.They are either silent or reduced to make some foolish remark as in the quote above.

Fact is that Yingluck has taken a step that Abhisit?Suthep/Kasdit and the rest of that gang wouldn't.Understandable with a little twerp like Kasit or a thug like Suthep, but no excuse for Abhisit who has the same educated and upper middle class background as Suu Kyi, and au fond - though pushed around like a puppet by the unelected elite - shares the same civilised values.

When was the last time a Thai leader (or any politician) visit Suu-Kyi? You make it sound like Abhisit *could* have visited her.

Did he ask? Don't think so - wouldn't have conformed with the wishes HMV aka Thai generals'.Abhisit has many qualities but unfortunately courage is not one of them (embarrassing recollection of his scampering into the barracks like a frightened hamster), which is a pity because that is probably the most important quality for a politician.

Fact is the unelected Thai elites have never supported the aspirations for freedom of the Burmese people (not surprising since they don't really support the aspirations for freedom of the Thai people).

Thaksin was as bad as any of them on the Burma issue.

Who is the Great Female leader you are talking about.... Yinluck has no right to be in the same room as this other Great Woman... its why the meeting only lasted half an hour.. Aun Suu Kyi has something called DIGNITY...... severely lacking in this new Thai Prime Minister... She would not know DIGNITY if it was staring her in the face..

Comical how the Yingluck/Suu Kyi meeting doesn't compute with the usual suspects.They are either silent or reduced to make some foolish remark as in the quote above.

Fact is that Yingluck has taken a step that Abhisit?Suthep/Kasdit and the rest of that gang wouldn't.Understandable with a little twerp like Kasit or a thug like Suthep, but no excuse for Abhisit who has the same educated and upper middle class background as Suu Kyi, and au fond - though pushed around like a puppet by the unelected elite - shares the same civilised values.

Does the current government have anything on the agenda apart from Mr T? Like running the country for the benefit of all citizens of Thailand or is that in the next parliamnet?

Based on the now clear facts that they chose to arrange a new passport for Thaksin during the same period that they could have been doing something other than strutting around in Burberry boots and taking photos of flooding while they completely mismanaged a crisis, you would have to say no, they don't really have any sort of an idea on anything other than

1. giveaways so people will keep liking them and not protest

2. sweeping all political stuff under the rug so that Thaksin can come back*

3. * well except the stuff that the people did against the red shirts...for some reason that's valid and worth persuing...for reconciliation. But the stuff the red shirts did, THaksin's rampant theft, etc etc - that is the bit that needs to be forgotten. For 'reconciliation'

They are as useless as TRT 2 and PPP. Mind you, was anyone expecting anything different?

What stuff did the people do against the redshirts? Didn't they shoot themselves and in any case aren't they all buffaloes in the pay of Thaksin, as the Salims on their social media pages remind us so often (forgetting that most of their quite recent ancestors were sweating it out in Klong Toey or some benighted Swatow rice paddy).

Do I detect a note of frustration (the childish Burberry gag, and they were Chinese knock offs anyway unlike Korn's wife's real Chanel boots) that things aren't quite playing out in the "right' way, and there's some frustration this government is doing rather well, certainly well enough to improve on the last election? Yingluck in particular - hated though she is by many in the Sino Thai middle class - is doing particularly well.I bet the old elite is somewhat pissed off and is thinking hard about timing of a suitable judicial intervention.A coup looks too problematic even for the chimps who organised the last fiasco.

Of course they could cock it up on the Thaksin return issue.Lying by Surapong doesn't help and the amart enemy is still rabid (e.g Prayuth/LM).

By the way Steve what happened to the intelligence and wit? Your last post could have been from one of thev knuckle dragging usual suspects?

PAD are anti-Thaksin and the corruption that he represents and hardly a Democrat splinter group. In fact, the Vote NO campaign most likely had a quite harmful effect. Their voicing of the problems with one man one vote is recognition of one of the major weaknesses of democracy, which depends on an informed and rational populace. It is hardly surprising that they should feel that way when a large section of the voters are prepared to ignore blatant corruption for their personal short term gain even if it damages the nation.

Is it so wrong for the educated "elite" to oppose corruption, vote-buying, violent intimidation, propaganda, nepotism, cronyism, economically unsustainable populist policies, conflicts of interest, and a party dedicated to reinstatement of a blatantly corrupt criminal? If the Democrats are anti-democratic, why did they set up policies to improve the education standards of the poor, and why have they all been negated by PTP?

Comparison of the Myanmar and Thai military is invalid, at least at the moment. Myanmar generals have seized power for their own gain - in Thailand the military are dedicated to a constitutional monarchy, are prepared to take drastic measures to maintain it, and returned the country to democracy quickly with an anti-corruption constitution.

No comment needed since you have just articulated the main elements of the PAD platform - dishonest (as though the elite is not up to its armpits in corruption), hypocritical, reactionary,militaristic, anti democratic and in most Thais' view electorally toxic.

Certainly don't disagree with you regarding PAD, though they so splintered these days they don't even consider Kasit one of them....as such I'm also struggling these days to necessarily equate PAD with the Dems. Others will continue to do so, I'm sure.

In terms of my words, light hearted to be sure, my main thought is that PTP wouldn't mind a rubber stamp parliament. Whether that is from a military overlord or a strong PT executive committee makes little difference to me. Perhaps I should have said "Thai democracy with Singaporean characteristics", but then even that would require a certain respect for institutions and the independence of them which I don't feel PT have, and at least the Dems presend to respect. Which is a start.

Actually if you meant "Thai democracy with Singaporean characteristics" I think you would be right on the money.That was always one of Thaksin's early aims and one of the reasons I felt uncomfortable with him from the start.

As to respect for institutions, by which I take it you primarily mean the courts, I think (excuse the expression) the jury is out.Haven't all parties seen the judicial system as a way of rubber stamping political objectives?

So you say, but I can't help but thinking that PT would prefer a move towards 'Thai democracy with Burmese characteristics' if they had the chance. They just have to be able to pull the strings.

Doesn't really make any sense at all.

The Democrats are the Thai military's political party of choice.The Democrat splinter group PAD argued against the concept of a free democracy in which every person had equal value.The elite, mostly Democrat supporters,probably does in its heart believe in "Thai democracy with Burmese characteristics" and is of course implacably opposed to the PTP.

There are plenty of reasons for opposing the PTP but your line doesn't stack up.I don't incidentally think the Democrat leadership - Abhidsit,Korn even Suthep, want any such thing either.Still any old piece of nonsense will do for the Salims if it serves its purpose.

"Ms Yingluck said Ms Suu Kyi has fought for democracy in Myanmar and Thai people also wanted to see the continued development of democracy in Thailand".

The ultimate insult to Ms Suu Kyi to mention these two people in the same sentence. Suu Kyi is fighting to free Burma of the same circumstances the Shinawarta clan is trying to enslave the Thai people with. Absolutely pathetic.

So you say.However it appears Suu Kyi thinks differently since she openly welcomed Yingluck's victory earlier this year, given its unquestioned democratic mandate.(I doubt whether she has much time for Thaksin who was never helpful in line with Thailand's ruling class generally.)But Suu Kyi also has reason to dislike a corrupt and politicised military though as a well mannered and highly educated woman, she does not rant.

Forgive me but I prefer to accept Suu Kyi's position.

Again, it doesn't matter who he kicked as this isn't an isolated incident. To try to make it about the 'kickee' is just a misdirection - but somewhat to be expected.

OK my last word on this subject since it's becoming tedious.

Actually the background of the "kickee" (Member of Parliament assaulted) does matter because that's partly what the thread is about.

Nobody, certainly not me, is defending Karun's record.

I don't aim to enlighten the reactionary faction but for normal forum members the unsavoury background of the "kickee' is , if not the only factor, a significant and relevant one.

Another example of the usual suspects censoring or only providing half truths because the reality doesn't conform with their preconceived narrative.

So now we have the constant apologist saying that assault and libel is a public service?

I think it is clear that Karun is a loose gun, a troublemaker, a nutcase and more. That he 'happens' to kick a person of equal low level once, unless you are going to claim his wife, the guard at Suvanaphumi and others are also not worthy of your respect as fellow humans, doesn't excuse him.

Even a blind hen can find a cord at times. Doesn't make her less blind. Or Karun less of a loose cannon. Or criminal.

I don't disagree with your view on Karun, and certainly I haven't defended his bad behaviour.I'm slightly surprised that you suggest I have (because though our politics differ you struck me as someone basically sane).

"Giving someone a kicking" is apart from those with severe sense of humour failure a phrase not usually taken literally.If it offends, naturally I retract it.

My only point in posting was to comment on the elephant in the room (note to Buchholz - not an actual elephant:it's a figure of speech) namely the self censorship involved in avoiding any comment on the nasty quasi fascist politics of the "kickee", too extreme for both Abhisit and even Suthep.

What isn't laughable to me is that your assailing a man who was on the receiving end of violence is very much akin to the rationale of a rape victim deserving what she got... or in Karun's case, his wife deserving to be smacked around by him.

Is Somkiat married to Karun? Sorry I didn't know.

In all seriousness I don't think you are making much sense.You can go off on a wife beating diversion if you like but that's not what the thread is about.If you object to Somkiat's grimy background (take it up with Abhisit who shares my position) being revealed so be it.That's part of the to and fro of a free forum.

And I don't have a brief for Karun so please don't suggest otherwise.And as a polite word of advice don't be relentlessly uncritical of wrong doers just because they share your extreme right wing views.You would be taken more seriously if you were a little more flexible.

I disagree with most of what you have to say but if someone else felt likewise and thought you deserved a kicking over it I certaintly wouldn't see that as a public service. I'd see it as assault and I'll bet you'd change your view and see it that way too.

If I was was a unreconstructed PAD ideologue I would deserve a kicking.Actually Karun probably does too - he looks to be a creep too.I just am amused at the way the usual suspects censor out anything that doesn't conform with their ideology, and then expect to be taken seriously.

Your attacking, of all people the recipient of this violence, Somkiat, further clarifies for others.

Just sharing the disdain of the man, a notorious PAD creep, voiced by Abhisit and Suthep.Abhisit actually suggested he should leave the Democrat Party.

Odd you somehow didn't find the time to mention this, and now become agitated because I pointed it out.Or on the other hand perhaps not so odd because it doesn't fit in with your "narrative" of events.

For the record and to clarify through the smoke, it is Karun that has been found guilty of both assault and libel.

Er, I think we know that since that is what the Nation's article was about.

My contribution was simply to note we are talking about, in the person of Somkiat, a reactionary of the first order - whom Abhisit and even Suthep disdain - poisoning the Democrats' good name.Some people - not you of course - might think this is an interesting and relevant point, and that Karun in giving him a kicking, if that is indeed what he did, was rendering a valuable public service.

Clean record? CLEAN RECORD? He just came out of probation for being sentenced for a criminal offense and he is getting another mere probation for having a CLEAN RECORD?

Granted no-one should go to jail for defamation - but the reason given for it here is typical of these cases.

And being an MP shouldn't count in his favour.

It is staggering.

The guy's record is atrocious.... by any standard.

.

In this silly display of outrage by the usual suspects, they somehow forgot to mention that Somkiat Pongpaibul is a notorious PAD leader who has been repudiated by both Abhisit and, believe it or not, Suthep.I have no idea what Karun Hosakul is alleged to have said but by any reasonable standard the awful little quasi fascist Somkiat, too appalling and extreme even for the Democrat Party, certainly deserves a kicking.

Is it "Make a wish day" in farangland?

It's a profoundly silly observation also not least because the Thai economy is not encumbered by significant debt.

With the democrats, the chant was "We do not need outside help, let us solve our issues". This was when Thailand had a Warmongering PM and had clashes breaking out every now and again.

Now, with PTP the chant goes "ASEAN must help mediate". This when the border area is quiet with no clashes and with the current government preferring peaceful diplomacy to blood lust.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this.

There's little doubt now over a wide range of foreign policy issues, this government is doing rather well notwithstanding a rather lacklustre foreign minister.

Of course it probably looks better simply in contrast to the deplorable record of the last government with the wretched and incompetent Kasit in charge, in hock to a military and right wing extremist agenda.

If a holder of a PR wishes to travel abroad he/she would have to get a re-entry in his passport and PR. This ensures that upon your return to Thailand you can continue your stay in the country on this PR visa. If you apply for a single or multiple depends on how often you plan to travel. Important to know is that the re-entry is valid for a maximum of one year.

There is no need to delay the process until just before travel. If you have your passport stamped with a re-entry say on the second of December you could leave Thailand anytime and return until the first of December next year. If you do not have a valid re-entry they would stamp you a tourist visa in your passport when you return.

Thanks for this

Claiming the charges are politically motivated is just plain stupid. If you want to pretend that he's pure as the driven snow please don't ask anyone to credit you with intelligence.

I will reply to only one of the latest set of responses (though this one is the most absurd) because they all really make just the same point, namely to deny the charges were politically motivated.But we actually know from Wikileaks and other sources that key figures (I choose the words carefully) were determined to "get" Thaksin.I have already made it clear that the charges and convictions may well be legitimate but that, as even the slowest minds should be able to grasp, is a different matter.In the scheme of Thai politicians' wrongdoings they are however relatively trivial.

I will respond further if there are intelligent challenges.

As I said, the motivation is immaterial, he was convicted by a court of law in Thailand and the government must live with that.

Well actually I'm afraid that's not true.The political motivation in the attempt to convict Thaksin is very material indeed, and in most courts - if proven - would get him off the hook.

As to Siripon's related point, I agree the charges can be both legitimate and politically motivated.The two are not mutually exclusive.The significance is that if political motivation can be proved it would make it very difficult to convict in most countries (but who knows in Thailand).

I agree the election result is not relevant to the court proceedings.It simply provides context and (yawn) demolishes the feeble Ronnie Biggs bar talk.

It's a ridiculous concept. It'd be like if the UK government had told Ronnie Biggs to pop along to the embassy in Brazil to pick up his passport. Oh and while you're there, have a cuppa with the ambassador.

Yeah, it's just like that.Or at least it would be if the charges against Biggs were primarily politically motivated and a party representing his supporters had just won a very comfortable election victory in the UK.

Of course Thaksin has to deal with the charges against him but save the bar talk for its appropriate place and give forum members some allowance for intelligence.

I wonder if anyone familiar with PR could kindly help with the following question.

I understand each year the PR holder has to go to Immigration to get endorsements for passport and certificate of residence IF he wishes to travel abroad.In the passport this would be shown as a multiple entry visa valid for one year.

If the visa had to be utilised before (say) 30 June but the PR holder didn't need to travel until (say) September could the process at Immigration be delayed until just before the date of travel?

Why don't you start separate thread on Korn's wife and the Democratic spokewoman?

Two reasons

1.Both are connected by the same hate filled and frankly somewhat bonkers mindset

2.Can't be bothered

I have no feelings one way or the other about Korn but I'm pretty dam_n sure I wouldn't get on with his wife.

An extract from her interview with the Nation published 12th December last year. If you think I'm cherry picking read the full article here

http://www.asiaone.c...212-252300.html .......................................it doesn't get any better.

For some reason the Nation lists the article but the link doesn't work (for me at least).

"Anytime I'm free, I log on to Facebook."

She adds that she's never approached anyone on Facebook and accepts a friend request only when she's sure the person does not have psychological problems or a tendency towards violent behaviour. (Do people list these traits under "hobbies"?)

"I 'unfriended' a friend of 40 years on Facebook as lots of her friends are red shirts who post extremely harsh criticisms of the government. I'd rather not see their posts," she says. (A bit harsh herself there, 40 years of friendship down the drain, Thida must have been devastated )

"The rally in the Rajprasong area affected people greatly. People could not hang out so they spent more time on Facebook. (So that's why they sent the army in)

Some posted complaints as to why the government did not act against the protesters. I passed the complaints on to Korn. But we realised that these were part of a plan to provoke and force the government to take action so they could accuse the government of using violence," she says. (More disgruntled Facebook users - obviously Red Shirts this time as part of their cunning plan)

You are right.His wife is an embarrassment and on a point of detail if Korn ever aims for the highest office he will have to explain away his earlier PAD enthusiasm.Having said that the crazy hate filled ideas of his wife are not uncommon among the Thai upper and upper middle class.They often dress it up as loyalty to the supreme institution but in reality it's pure class politics, selfishness and fear of the unknown - made toxic by (sometimes) ethnic tension and that odd upper class Thai brand of hysteria when confronted by opposition from what they consider to be their inferiors.Even now Korn is happily marketing the Nazi style Good Web initiative when the LM farce of Ah Kong is winning some unlikely converts for that law's complete abolition.

Incidentally isn't weird that the insane Mallika (Democrat spokeswitch) and her campaign against impure thoughts and threat to close down Facebook/Youtube goes completely uncommented on this forum - when it is the talk of the town.There are some deranged people out there.

Sigh! What a pity more of our MPs couldn't argue their case as eloquently as this, no shouting, no BS finger pointing, no abrasion, I parricularly agree with this;

The problem was simply that Pheu Thai and the red shirts were not yet used to the fact that they were in power, with esponsibilities, rather than the radical political movement they had been in the three prior years.

now compare this man's way of being a well behaved opposition to that of Chalerm and Jatuporn and decide which is less detrimental to the future of our leadership.

I'm an admirer of Korn but I certainly don't agree that the article is not highly politicised.There are a number of areas in the article particularly the latter part which are debatable.Not relevant to go into details now perhapsd but there is plenty of evidence to suggest the Democrats were not always "constructive" and above party politicking in the crisis.Still it is, as one would expect, a well written piece and I think perfectly legitimate for an opposition leader - and a number of points are well made.Democracy is a rough and tumble game and the ruling government must be prepared to take hard criticism.

So what's your stand on freedom of speech?

It's not a question of freedom of speech which I support wholeheartedly.

It's a matter of approach - bullying, hectoring, obtuse - whenever the yellow narrative is challenged.It's only a few people involved however.

Having said that my comment on re-reading looks somewhat pompous, so apologies for that.It's really born out of frustration that someone of Nick Nostitz's calibre is treated so appallingly on the forum, usually by those manifestly less well informed, less articulate and always with a axe to grind.