jayboy

I don't understand why the democrats stick to Abhisit and don't find any stronger person???

Any suggestions in mind?

Actually the problem with Abhisit is not that he is weak but that, despite all his qualities, he is a poor politician and as it turns a rather mean spirited one..At one time the Democrats were a truly national party.I would have thought the challenge would be to adopt well thought out policies (not just facile populism) which had wide support with leadership that appealed to a wide cross section of Thais.

As to Sonthi he is as thick as cold custard, difficult for anyone with any sense to take seriously.And yet there are those who criticise him now (including a comment by Animatic which is probably actionable) who were salivating at the time of criminal coup that he launched.The slightly farcical aspect is that despite the shame and disgrace the coupsters and their not so anonymous backers brought on the country, there are still apparently those who believe the country's political and social difficultues would be cured by military intervention.Worked so well last time.Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain.

So now you say Interpol is not a credible organization.

OK that's it I'm out of here, the patients have taken over the asylum.

But as a parting shot I would just say it's hard to understand how someone would think I was questioning Interpol's credibility as opposed to that of Sirichoke who gave it as a source.

Sirichoke may well have fabricated the Interpol bit to deflect heat from his MoFA source.

Thanks for providing this comic suggestion.One couldn't make this stuff up.

Interpol was never interested because the Thai goverment at the time never requested Interpol to act, it has nothing to do with "policial motivation" at all.

Er, yes it did and was told to get lost.See the link I have posted on this thread.

Again you give totally dishonest and very misleading comment. The paymasters conviction was for abuse of power, an old and very serious law, which is there for good reason to protect the common wealth of all Thais from unscrupulous immoral politicians, nothing whatever to do with politics.

And further the case was heard, he was found guilt and a two year jial sentence imposed during the tenure of a paymaster puppet government.

Before accusing members of dishonesty it's best to be clear about the context.Although your post is rather hard to follow and very poorly expressed, I'm assuming you are making the point that Thaksin had serious charges against him that needed dealing with.I agree.However the point is, and one you seem slow to grasp, is that the pursuit against Thaksin was politically motivated but this is not inconsistent with Thaksin having legitimate charges to explain (though arguably less serious than those which hang over Abhiszit's head).I have already posted a link in this thread demonstrating that Interpol rebuffed the previous government on this matter.As to those who want me to reference Wikileaks please check this out for yourselves.I'm certainly not prepared to cut and paste and probably breach forum rules (for there is much sensitive material) but start with the American Ambassador of the time and take things from there...

whereas Sirichoke meeting Bout is on topic

Most people would assume that clarifying the source of the information was a discredited fantasist was completely on topic.

Foreign Minister Surapong Towichukchaikul said yesterday that he was not aware of Thaksin Shinawatra being detained

Not surprising from the laughably incompetent cousin of Thaksin.

Is this a repeat of his obfuscation and deceptions regarding his efforts to obtain his relative a Japanese visa?

At first indicating it was all at Japan's initiative before the truth emerged that Thaksin himself had directed his younger cousin to obtain it.... followed by the incredulous aspect of Surapong being the gopher that delivered it to him in Dubai.

Nice try to change the subject, ie deflect the lies by the previous administration about Interpol and Thaksin

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1046931

As to Surapong's comment he may well have been unaware of Thaksin's immigration issues in Italy - hardly of earth shattering importance (even if they happened).

Interpol isn't credible - just a profoundly deluded man's fantasy.

What's not credible about it?

Do try and keep up.It's already been explained quite carefully.

...What I simply don't believe however is that Sirichoke had a "friend" in Interpol (who never had an interest in Thaksin anyway) who leaked this information

Then where did it come from?

I think there are two possible sources - someone form Interpol/Italian immigration or someone at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

It might be (actually is, at the moment) only a rumor but it must have a source. How many news of goings on at Florence Immigration counters reach Thailand in general?

It may as you say not have even have been true.However if he was detained briefly your suggestion that MOF provided the info is very plausible.

Interpol isn't credible - just a profoundly deluded man's fantasy.

The leader of the drunken flying monkies that shoot out peoples rectums runs your party and yet you call this man names. Interesting. He's a wanted fugitive from justice and your party tells Interpol he's all hunky dory. Nice.

Interpol never had an interest in Thaksin because the charges against him, whatever validity they had, were clearly politically motivated.(Wikileaks subsequently confirmed this beyond any doubt).The laughably incompetent former Foreign Minister Kasit and apprentice terrorist was economical with the truth in this matter.It is possible that Abhisit, who in contrast has a cool intelligence, seems to have been aware it was pointless to ask for Interpol's help to detain Thaksin.

I'm not sure what to make of your drunken flying monkies analogy.

In the other paper this morning, Yingluck is insisting that she will stay on as PM after the return of the banned 111 cronies of her brother return to politics.

"Time will prove how I can run the country" is how she phrased it.

She did say, however, that any capable individual was welcome to come and work for the government... with her as the leader.

She denied that her brother was making these sorts of decisions for her government.

Interesting that a few months ago the standard mantra among the usual suspects (once their fantasies about frivolous legal challenges to the PM were dashed) was that Yingluck was just a cypher who would be cast aside one the banned PTP politicians became available again.They are very quiet about this now which I suppose is their way of recognising Yingluck's comparitive success in the job.

Let's not forget that Sirichoke Sopha, a close aide to Abhisit, visited Viktor Bout in prison to ask whether he had any information linking Thaksin and a cargo plane carrying weapons from North Korea that was seized by the Thai authorities in Bangkok in December 2009.The general conclusion was that Sirichoke was a profoundly foolish man living in a fantasy world, and there was at least a question to be asked on the monkey's relation with his organ grinder.

It's possible Thaksin had a discussion with Italian immigration officers.I have no idea but its plausible.What I simply don't believe however is that Sirichoke had a "friend" in Interpol (who never had an interest in Thaksin anyway) who leaked this information

She has certainly learned how to Duck and Dive,and make it appear to be Delegating.

she's at her ducking and diving best.... again

The prime minister declined to express her opinion about the way to rebuild national reconciliation given the matter is under the responsibility of the House committee on national reconciliation.

March 22, 2012

http://www.thailando...?DataID=1053772

.

I would have thought that was a perfectly reasonable response in the circumstances.

Of course any suggestion that the PM is doing reasonably well - which most reasonable people agree - enrages the haters.I note even the stale canard about the Burberry boots - actually cheap Chinese knock offs ( It was Korn's PAD loving wife who wore the genuine Chanel boots!) has been irrelevantly dragged out again.

Sounds to me like an attempt to white wash Thaksin.

Are you suggesting that awkward facts be buried if they threaten to to undermine your rather one dimensional narrative of recent Thai history?

Superficially, I think most of the world probably doesn't know yet that Yingluck is Thailand's Sarah Palin because how many people outside Thailand watch her painfully poor performances?

The comparison is so lame.Palin, whatever one thinks of her and unlike Yingluck, is an electrifying political performer.Yingluck, whatever one thinks of her and unlike Palin, won a commanding general election victory.

Does she have a Masters Degree from a native English speaking university?

No? Then I wouldn't expect much in the way of her English speaking skills.

Logically, if one is in possession of such a degree, it's expected that a higher level of English language ability goes along with it.

It's not that difficult a concept to follow.

The possession of a degree at a third tier US college has little to do with her English language capability.I'm hazarding a guess that even the native English speakers at KSU are not exactly speaking the English of Lincoln, Shakespeare or Poe.In any event with the exception of expensively overseas educated Thais (often from the age of nine or ten, Korn, Abhisit etc)) the standard of the elite's English is generally abysmal.Yingluck is no different from most - even using the benchmark of a shoddy US college peer group.

There are world leaders who have never been near an English language speaking university who have perfect command of the English language - think almost every prominent Scandinavian or Dutch leader.

The haters harp on about Yingluck embarrassing Thailand but this is a concern confined mainly to Thailand.Overseas as far as one can tell Yingluck makes rather a good impression, possibly because in addition to her personal qualities she represents a governement legitimately elected with a genuine popular mandate.The haters don't really have an easy target at the moment since by most accounts the government is doing rather well.So they concentrate on superficial matters.

That isn't a sufficiently rigorous academic curriculum for any accreditaion body of which I am aware.

And as regards the rigorous academic curricula you claim familiarity with, do they include the ability to spell the word "accreditation" correctly?

Where I do criticize her is that she continues to lead people to believe she earned a Master's Degree from an American university and that just isn't possible given her lack of English language ability. So that's got to be a lie, which any other world leader would have had to resign over.

So what was her degree at KSU if it wasn't a Master's Degree? Are you suggesting it was a different degree or that perhaps she didn't graduate at all? If you say she is being dishonest about this matter, you had better have some pretty good evidence.

I wonder if Amsterdam / CalgaryII was involved in this report.

That's an intelligent comment.

The last sentence might have been a little unclear. I didn't mean it in regards to her Thai language abilities but rather her public administration skills (irregardless of whether she's managing in Thai or English). I hope you're right about this not being an ongoing issue. I would truly love to see some forward-thinking, eloquent politicians in Thailand. God knows the Kingdom needs them now more than ever.

Oddly enough Yingluck's Thai as well as her English speaking ability is the subject of much frenzied discussion, usually hate filled, on the social media by the unpleasanter end of urbanite Bangkok.An educated native English speaker can often draw wry satisfaction that these diatribes are often riddled with errors in spelling, grammar and syntax.Rather akin to the infamous yellow shirt placard "REDS ARE NOT EDUCATE PEEPLE".I think critics of Yingluck's Thai speaking ability -though typically they are usually not very precise about it - are referring to her provincial mannerisms not her capability (since she is obviously a native speaker).If they were logical they would apply the same criticism to Chuan whose English is worse than that of Yingluck and is even more of a provincial.

Having said all that Yingluck is obviously not a long term prospect and lacks the qualities really needed for an effective PM (though easily superior to an old incompetent codger like Surayud).At the moment I can't see a leader of quality on either side.I had hopes of Korn (still do actually) but his record in opposition is patchy and there is a whiff of the Mitt Romney about him (along with a political extremist wife).

Yingluck should not speak in front of international audiences. I love that this article addresses the obvious problem of the "face-saving"/reinforcement issue. Thais bring a whole new meaning to the term "lackey", but that's more of an aside. Yingluck's administration demonstrated clearly that she is NOT in control when the floods happened. There were so many mouths spewing incomprehensible nonsense that government incompetence became as much a concern for the public as actual flooding. But there have been other instances as well, such as when Yingluck tried to tell the public that she wasn't aware of her own Foreign Ministry's plans to provide her brother with a passport (even if that's a bold-faced lie, it just shows how stupid they think the public is/how stupid they think they can be and get away with it). The fact is that successive Thai governments don't stand up to international scrutiny at all. This isn't just Yingluck; it's the entire system and it's been this way for a decade, at least. Thailand has essentially disconnected from global economic and political progress and integration. Thais are scrambling to prepare for the 2015 ASEAN integration because the citizens of other ASEAN nations have shown themselves to be much more aggressive and willing to learn. Bold, adventurous, confident, well-educated ASEAN investors will likely trounce their Thai equivalents in the global race towards prosperity. Thai academics and officials already know this and there have been numerous articles touching on the issue. Ultimately, Thai cultural pride (they were not colonized, something they really, really want everyone to know) and complacency have left the country with a government that reflects it's populace: oblivious and unskilled. Most Thais, it's been demonstrated, cannot find their own country on a map.

The Thai government is chock-full of proxies, puppets and known criminals. The international community knows this. Take a look at Yingluck's meetings with foreign officials in Davos: she met with no one of importance. It's very easy to see why. No serious government official, with little time and huge challenges before him or her, would sit down with someone who so clearly doesn't have her cards in order. There is every reason to believe that her brother would have to rubber stamp anything she happened to agree upon. She is so clearly incapable of leading a country and government (and that's not completely her fault; Thai political culture isn't merely a topic for study, it's a disaster) that it wouldn't truly make sense to spend any time discussing anything with her. When I stand her up next to Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (Indonesian PM; great interview with Charlie Rose), Barack Obama, Wen Jintao, Angela Merkel, or even Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, I can immediately make sense of the fact that Yingluck attracts little attention from foreign diplomats at major international political gatherings. She isn't a PM/President like any of them are (they all are leaders and are truly looking out for the long-term health of their respective countries). She can barely manage things in her own language, let alone in English.

I'm not sure about the last sentence other than a Thai social distinction (sophisticated urban as opposed to unsophisticated provincial).But overall this was an intelligent, well informed and rather devastating post obviously with some clear hits that someone like myself who is broadly sympathetic to Yingluck would have to consider very carefully.The small band of haters who are always in evidence to make witless remarks (and sometimes offensively sexist) remarks about the PM could learn something from this more incisive approach which is much more effective.

I have two comments about Yingluck's foreign reception.She has an advantage in the way she presents herself - well mannered, courteous and sympathetic.Secondly and much more importantly she unlike Abhisit has a clear electoral mandate.I understand what is said about the second tier people she saw in Switzerland, but I don't think this will be an ongoing issue.

For those still uninitiated after years and years of posting their vitriole on the internet, a review of the article refers to NNT as the source, with the Pattaya Mail simply republishing it.

In regards to Abhisit, please cite any reference he made with similarly ridiculous bluster on the issue, such as

Thaksin declares the country 'drug-free area'

or

PM pledges to eradicate drug sales

I have excised your personal abuse and will respond only on the substantive points.

I commented that Abhisit in 2009 launched an anti drugs initiative which has much in common with that of the present government.I did not compare with Thaksin, indeed went out of my way to stress his drugs war was illegal and morally reprehensible.

If you think that referencing through the Pattaya Mail is appropriate (ie that any educated person would endorse), I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise.

One has to be amused at the silliness of someone who references the Pattaya Mail as an authoritative source, not exactly a journal of record.

Turning to the thread subject matter as opposed to obsessive slander of the PM, the reality is that all recent Thai governments have recognised the drug menace and instituted or stepped up measures to control it.For example in April 2009 Abhisit instituted a programme very similar to that being proposed by Yingluck.The devil of course is in the detail and both Yingluck and Abhisit have made it clear that there will not be a repetition of the murderous and illegal aspects of the drugs war instituted by Thaksin.For some however the scourge of drugs in Thailand and the misery it causes was always secondary to its use as a political weapon.I certainly agree however the illegal drugs war is the greatest charge against Thaksin.It was never pursued because not only was it supported by the unelected elites (and to be fair by the Thai people as a whole) but also because many of them were incriminated.

Last I checked, there was no elected government in power at the time of the coup.

It's amazing that this tired canard still has legs - as thought the purpose opf the coup was not to eject Thaksin.Not even the coup leaders argue this brain dead proposition.