kriswillems

Marriage really doesn't help you much when you want to stay in Thailand (if you don't have >40K income/month). Although you don't need to apply for a visa every 3 months, you still need to do the border runs.

And you still need to obtain a multiple entry non-immigrant-O visa every 15 month and getting this in Signapore or Malaysia is always becoming harder (signapore is now requiring 400K in a bank account for a multiple entry non-immigrant-O and Malaysia cancelled multiple entry visas in Penang).

If you've more than 40K family income marriage gives you a 1 year extention as long as your have this income. If you fall below 40K the borders runs and visa runs start again.

Married people, fathers with Thai children, it doen't make any difference, they all get a pretty hard time now.

The only group for whom it's really easy to get a 1 year extention are people older than 50, then only need 800K on their own bank account and don't need to be married and even don't need an income.

Please ignore my last reply. I misunderstood your situation. You're actually living with the mother of your child. I though your ex was the mother.

You can probally get a 1 year multiple entry non-immigrant-O visa in Signapore and immmediately return to Thailand with that visa. But I wouldn't get married in a hurry in order to get a visa. Arranging marriage also takes some time and you'll need to get some documents from your home country that need to be translated and stamped.

I totally understand your frustration papakapbaan. I think the new law is unreasonable. It will brake up many young couples who can't meet the 40K/month requirement and it will make life very hard for young fathers with a Thai child.

I would try to contact the mother of the child again and ask her for a permission to go Belgium (on tourist visa). A bit of money might help.

If the child is with a tourist visa in Belgium I would not return anymore to Thailand.

Belgian government is not going to put your child on an airplane back to Thailand even if she's staying illegally in Belgium.

In Belgium you can go to Belgian court try to get full custody.

The mother will probably not protest, because she never looked after the child.

If the mother refuses permission for a tourist visa I would go to court and try to get full custody of the child in Thailand. After that you could take your child to Belgium based on family reunion.

If you fail to get full custody, I would go to live in a place where it's easy to re-enter, maybe close to the airport or the border. You would need to go to a foreign embassy every 3 months, so you'll have to find somebody that can take care of your child about 2 weeks per year.

You didn't do anything wrong and I really don't understand the lack of sympathy of some people on this forum.

Another example (shopping mall):

ห้างสรรพสินค้า

according to thai2english pronouced as:

hâang sàp sĭn-káa

Shouldn't that be: haang sap pha sin kaa?

I have actually only heard it pronounced 'hâang sàp sĭn-káa' just as they write it, but naturally that does not mean this is necessarily correct.

See post 88:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=834906

Their might be 2 ways to pronounce it. My Thai language course also uses the way as described in post 88 in the "Let's learn one word a day" thread.

Another example (shopping mall):

ห้างสรรพสินค้า

according to thai2english pronouced as:

hâang sàp sĭn-káa

Shouldn't that be: haang sap pha sin kaa?

What is annoying about the transliteration/phonetic systems is that every book uses a different system.

You can't learn Thai by just reading one book. I've bought and read many books explaining Thai language to foreigners. Every book uses a different transliteration system and I ended up using the old transliteration system is the new book, resulting in studying the words incorrectly.

Futher on the transliteration systems are not easy to use by non-native English speakers. English has a limited "tone/sound"-set. I'll give just one example, but there are many other examples: To write a long "O", some books write "OR" because it sounds like a long "O" when you pronounce it in English. In many european languages you would pronounce "OR" in a different way, which makes it very hard for non-native English speakers to use transliteration systems. Also many European languages have a long "O" sound, so it's a bit stupid to write a long "O" as "OR", because there's a better alternative.

I think transliteration is useful in the very beginning, but you should avoid using 2 different transliteration systems (and thus limit yourself to one writer). I think the Benjamin Poomsan Becker books are very good, because she offers a whole series of books that use the same transliteration system.

After switching to the Thai writing system I had the feeling my Thai language improved a lot and I found out that I had been remembering many words incorrectly.

This is not the only absurd contrast.

A a single guy of 50 years old that hangs around in bars from the morning until the evening is allowed to get a 1 year extention based on 800K on a bank account without any income requirement.

A married person with children that go to school, with 2 million on his bank account is not allowed to stay unless the family has an income of 40K, which is really hard to get due to the work permit regulations.

You could say that married people always have the possibility to live in the country of the farang. But very often young married people have no other possibility than living in Thailand because the parents of the Thai partner are living in Thailand and someone needs to take care of them. So, the Thai partner needs to stay in Thailand. The farang is forced to stay in Thailand and make visa runs (which always get harder and always become more expensive) or find a very well paying job with work permit. Something that is probably only possible for a small group of highly educated farangs.

No matter how you look at it, Thai visa rules for young married people are hard and you shouldn't expect an easy life when marrying to a Thai national. Since october 2006 many young married couples are sent to hel_l.

We're planning to move to Thailand in July. I went on a holiday to Thailand in Januari (on a holiday). I arrived by airplane.

My wife called to the customs department before going to Thailand. The lady of the customs department said she could import used personal household stuff until 6 month after she moved back to Thailand. The only condition was that she could prove that she lived more than 1 year in Europe. The lady told her that she wouldn't have to pay any import tax.

Whem we arrived in the new airport we went straight to the customs department to verify this story. The kind and helpfull officer confirmed it and said that she could start moving things 6 months before she would arrive in Thailand until 6 months after she arrived. Even if she would move things by boat/container she wouldn't need to pay any import tax.

PS. my wife is Thai

Sounds rather easy to me, especially in comparison with immigration policies in EU and US.

The immigration policies for married people in the EU are 1 million times better than the rules for farang in Thailand.

My wife immediately got permanent residence in the EU. She doesn't need a visa. She never needed any work permit to work here and she can but land just like I can. She got free education, healthcare and wellfare. She now even has my nationality and can vote here.

The 400K for the one year extention is only valid for people that have used this rules before october 2006, the others need to prove a family income of 40K (3 times higher than average Thai income) and at the same time they are given a hard time to obtain a work permit.

In my opinion Thailand just wants to kick as many foreigners out as they can, starting with the people of which they can't get much money. The fact that young families are being broken-up is none of their worries. Their reasoning is easy: attract old farangs that don't take any Thai job, squeeze the money out of them until they die and send all the others out, totally ignoring any family ties or any respect for human life.

I think these 2 facts prove my point:

For retired single people Thailand has more flexible visa rules than any western country (1 year extention based on 800K on bank account, income not important).

For young married people Thailand has more hard visa rules than any western country (For getting a 1 year extention your bank account is irrelevant, even 3 million won't help you. Your income should be 3 times higher than average and at the same time they make it very hard for you to get a work permit).

Making it more difficult to obtain a multiple-non-immigrant-O visa in signapore is just one more step getting closer towards their goal.

One of the most frustrating parts about studying Thai is that it's so interesting and challenging that I feel bad when I have to move my attention to other subjects, like work. Are there people that manage to improve their Thai language skills by studying less that 10 hours per week (either at home or in a course)? I feel like I need to study at least 20 to 30 hours per week to bring my knowledge to a higher level, which is difficult to combine with my job.

I took the test last year (Dec06) and got 72%, It took me 11 months to get up to standard from taking the speaking 1 course at AAAThai language school in Chidlom in Jan 06 going through all the courses then i took their grade 6 preparation course (3month course) in Sept 06. Altogether i took around 700hrs of group classes. For the first 2 months i took a class in the morning and in the afternoon session (3hrs + 3hrs). Outside the school i tried only to speak in Thai, which was greatly helped by the fact that my Thai girlfriend doesnt speak English.

Great info Tony. I am also curious about the details of the test.

I was actually thinking about the test, because it's very difficult to define any level if you don't have any reference or standard to compare too.

I am married to a Thai. I never speak Thai with my wife. My wife and her family can speak English. I've tried to study Thai by myself without following a course, but although I tried really hard I did not get very far. I have the feeling it was the transliteration system, used in many books, that was blocking me.

5 months ago I started with a Thai course, only 3 yours per week. Although I don't learn much in this course, this course motivates me to study at home and to actually try to talk Thai. Because of the motivation I got in this course I learnt reading and writing Thai by myself. The teacher decided to move me to the second grade, skipping one year (the second grade is still pretty easy).

I understand the whole tone system, I can hear the difference between the tones and I can pronounce the tones correctly, but I've to think very long before I can't actually pronounce a sentence with the correct tone. I can (slowly) read Thai language (without understanstanding everything I read). I can write often used words.

The biggest problem I have is my lack of a wide vocabulary and experience with understanding, speaking and listening. I seem to be stuck with this problem. Learning 10 new words a day is actually pretty hard because I tend to forget the words I learnt a few days ago. So, that's why the feeling I am stuck.

I have a university degree and I am pretty quick in understanding but I am very bad in languages. I can't even read my native language (Dutch) without faltering.

During my holiday in Thailand I followed a 20 hours private course (with a tutor). I find these private courses to be very intensive. After 2 hours I am exausted. But I learnt a lot that way. Classroom courses are pretty relaxing, because most people seem to be slower than me. I think I could follow a full time classroom course if such a course would be available. The reason I don't want to follow private courses anymore is that most teachers only have experience with teaching Thai at a very basic level. Further on private courses are also much more expensive than classroom courses.

My final goal is to reach Poh.6 level (but I am not sure this is a realistic goal).

Does anyone know any objective test to test your level of Thai language?

How much time does the average farang need to reach poh.6 level (12 years old Thai child) Thai speaking, reading and writing?

Taking into account that this farangs could study full time (in a classroom, not private).

Did anyone on this forum reach this level?

How did you do it?

I can read a bit, write a bit and speak a bit but I seem to be stuck at this level.

My Thai wife doesn't really understand the new rules very well and being Thai she believes there's always a way around the rules. Thai people are used to live in a totally corrupt burocratic system and they believe everything can be fixed with a bit of money and good friends (which most of the times is really true).

But the immigration laws for foreigners are pretty strict and I don't believe there's really a way around them. I am considering a few options:

- my wife has to find a job (or has to be self-employed) which pays 40K/month

- I will try to find a job which pays 40K/month, but I'll need a WP

- My wife employs me and pays me 40K/month, but we'll need to arrange a WP

- I could get very high income from "rent".

- a combination of the things above

- If no solution can be found I'll be doing visa runs and I'll be travelling to signapore or my home country for multiple entry non-immigrant O visas and I'll be doing visa runs every 90 days.

If I compare my legal status in Thailand with the legal status of my wife in my Western European home country I am treated like a dog and my wife like a queen. She has exactly he same rights as me in my home country (even more, she can get special free language education and social integration courses for foreigners).

This thread is great, imma have to book another meeting next week with Khun Krit in Chiang Mai (Sunbelt) to get this going. (Yes I'm a Sunbelt customer, and proud to support them)

I suppose I would need to get my wife to declare income for this year (2006) before Dec 31st. I just had a couple questions that I will list below. My goal here is not to qualify for the 1 year extension of stay, but rather to obtain 2 work permit for me and a family friend who stay here with us. So my plan is:

- Get my wife registered as a sole proprietor

- Declare a 2006 turnover of 1,050,000 THB (700k for my friend, 350k for me)

- Do this before Dec 31st 2006

- Send my friend to Brisbane in Jan 2007 to obtain a 1 Year Multiple Non-O

- Apply for 2 work permit in Jan 2007 with supporting evidence that 2006 turnover was 1,050,000 THB

Questions:

- I understand that a "shop" has an automatic expense write-off of 70%. But what exactly qualifies a shop? Would an Internet shopping cart selling intangible personal property qualify? (World of Warcraft game currency)

- Is there a list that explains the different categories (activities) for automatic write-off expenses and their percentage?

- Did I miss anything?

Thanks!

I can't tell you the numbers, but not all shops are the same. For my wifes shops (selling attributes for buddhist monks/religion) there's a 80% deduction for a noodle shop Sunbelt explaned earlier there's a 70% deduction.

Problem solved. I went there by myself scream nit noy and prove them that its the thai law and they should give me my rights.and to my wife also.

We're on the way..

shixxx thai LOVE THEM!!

I am surprised your approach worked (screaming). May I know in which province you applied for a work permit? In 6 months I need to go through the same process as you.

Yesterday I went to the tax revenu department in Sri Racha. I am a holiday in Thailand now. They claim the income you need to get a 1 visa year extention is turnover or sales, so not net income.

For my wifes business there's an 80% tax deduction (I verified this in the revenu office), so she would need to make a huge turnover to reach the 40,000 baht net income per month. She would need to have a turnover of more than 2 million.

The tax department said that sales (or turnover) of 480,000 baht per year would be sufficient to get the 1 year visa extention. Suntbelt said it should be net income (so the 20% that's left after the deduction)

I am confused.

Hi there

Im a 24year old guy from Sweden.

I met a girl who lives in Sweden on a 1year workpermit. She will go home in the end of february-07 and Im planning to move with her.

She is 27years old, dont have any kids or been married before either.

She lives and works in bkk.

We are engaged since 4months back, and I been with her for 8months.

Is there any better chances for me to seek visa since I have a thaifiance and we are about to get married but not until 2008 since I have to get to know her family and everything.

I talked to the embassy in stockholm, but they only suggest touristvisa, but there must be some otherway or am I wrong?

I dont wanna move down with her and stay 5months on a double entry touristvisa, and then have to go out of thailand for 3months and then go back again..

So what options do I have? Im desperate since I cant imagine to be without her.

*Edit I been reading this forum for a couple of months now but I still feel that I need your guys help!**

Great forum btw

Please help me.

Sincerly, Jonas

If the embassy is offering you a double entry tourist visa you'll probably not be able to get much more. After 6 months you could go to get another 60 days tourist visa in Penang or KL which can be extended to 90 days. You could do this another time making a total of 1 year.

You can only stay 90 days per 180 days in Thailand based on 30-day stamps. Many people belief that tourist visas are not counted and that you can get a new tourisy visa every 90 days, allowing you to stay practically full time in Thailand. There's no need to stay out of Thailand for 90 days. Future will prove if this is correct.

Another option is that you begg at the embassy to get a multiple entry non-immigrant O visa. It's not sure this will help. It did this before my wife and I were married and it didn't help.

Really?

I'll go to Thailand on Sunday and we've to declare some personal housekeeping stuff because we'll move to Thailand next year. My wife called to customs and we don't need to pay import tax but we need to declare the things. How do I do that if there's no form?

The arrival card (TM6) doesn't mention the "criminal activity/drug related activity/medical record" (anymore?). Maybe the old version did? Or does the custom declaration form mention these things? I don't know where I get it from, it might be from a trip to another country.

If there's nothing on the paper or you just fill in that you've no criminal record, you'll be fine.

You don't need a tourist visa if you stay up to 30 days.

When you're in the airplane you've to fill in an immigration form. I think there are questions on this form is about your criminal record or a serious medical problem. Thai immigration might refuse you to enter if you lie or if they think you're a danger for the country (because you've a criminal record).

I don't know any other reason why they might refuse you a 30 days stamp.

2. Average Thai income is <10K

I really can't buy this argument. You come from a country where you sort of were born with a silverspoon in your mouth compared to the "birth right" situation of "average" Thais, and where education is freely avaiable for anyone who bothers to make an effort. Right?

The "average" Thai is a person who never have had a chance (due to poverty) to learn any skills beyond what's offered in elementary school. The only thing they've learnt after that is how to survive on a day-to-day basis doing some sort of "business"... Never knowing wether they'll be out of business next week. Their only "advantage" are that they can stay in Thailand, regardless, without any chance of getting a visa to go somewhere else... And there you come - with your silverspoon background - and complain that your situation is unfair compared to theirs ...

As a minimum, you should compare your situation, not to the "average" Thai, but to those who come from a family that could afford more then elementary school for their offspring. How much do educated Thais make on an average? Have you researched that?

Yes, it's true: Thai authorities most certainly do want something in return for using those precious stamps sitting on their desktops... But - as should be obvious from their exclusion of richness (money in the bank) as sufficient on its own - they do put a meaning into "something" other than money.

What do you have to offer in return, besides leaning back and complain instead of giving it a go?

Yes, Thailand is a tough place to survive - especially if you have to rely on Thai income... But why not take it as an opportunity to learn how to beat obstacles rather than sit idle and complain about unfairness and uncertainty.

I'm 55 with a pregnant Thai wife and running a business, based on an investment of the bare minimum size. I do have a decent amount of dough in various pension funds, but none of them will become avaiable until I'm 65. So - having decided to make Thailand my home (for good and worse) I can't but do my best to make it here. My business is on the streetlevel with about a million Thai competitors within a radius of 1 KM. Last year the business made well enough to pay me a salary of 40K (last year the husband had to make that amount on his own - this years lawchange an improvement) plus a salary to my wife of 5K (because that's a WP-requirement in Chiang Mai) ... I'm not a smart business guy (never been anything but a measly employee until Thailand gave me an opportunity) ... So, how do I beat the Thais sufficiently to survive? ... The answer is: By offering some services that requires skills (not much skills compared to countrymen, but skills the competition never have had the chance to aquire) ... How much money did I need to start up? ... Answer: less than two years saving off an "average" income in my European homecountry.

So, on the buttom line, it really takes very little to make a living here: All you need is at least a few cash and at least a few skills... And just a tiny bit of backbone... Yes, I know: They might refuse even my visa extension next year. But, then again I might get killed 10 times in traffic accidents long before that ... Isn't life in Thailand exiting??? ...

Cyberstar,

If I was talking about an average Thai income <10K, I was talking about the Thai partner, not about the foreign partner. The foreign partner needs to make >30K and for that you need good qualifications (labour will not do).

I believe you've the correct and only possible attitude to survive as a foreigner in Thailand. I've saved some money and I'll find a job there. I am an expert in my field (electronics/software) and I have knowledge and experience most Thai people don't have. My wife (or her family) is not poor. I will survive.

But there are also many foreigners that don't have the advantages I have, or that live on the country side. The new visa rules almost make life impossible for those couples. Do these people not have the right to stay together? No matter how you look at it, Thai visa rules for young married couples are inhumane compared to the visa rules of most countries.

PS. You'll not loose your 1 year extention if you've 800K in the bank because you're older than 50. I would almost wish I was already 50

while i may sound harsh, i personally find it a bit hard to understand why a "young" person would "waste" his personal resources trying to establish a life in this country, while those from this country are establishing themselves by getting educated and earning money in the same countries that some of us have left and decry.Thailand is where you spend your money, not where you earn it, excepting of course, specialized skills.

I think most of the young married couples are trying to start a life in Thailand because they see that their partner is much more happy in Thailand. Most of us have seen Thailand. We know all tourist places. We're not staying in Thailand for the tourist attractions, nor for the weather. We're thinking about Thailand as the country where we want to work and live and see our children grow up.

Living in a rich country is not the same as being happy. Happiness can't be measured by the richness of a country. Happiness means the people around you are happy, if that is in Thailand, then Thailand is the place where we shall try to live.

Most young married couples are not married for money or to find a way to escape from Thailand. If a Thai girl want to escape from her country and get rich she better marries an old rich guy, not a young guy that still needs to build his life. So most Thai people married with young foreign partners never had the intention to leave Thailand, they just fell in love with the wrong person. And their relation is just being put under serious pressure because the absurd and very strict visa regulations (for young married couples).

My wife has a university degree from a good Thai university. This degree has little value in europe but reasonable value in Thailand. Thailand is where her family lives. Why would she like to live in Europe?

Dear sunbelt,

Few days a go u sent these rules in the forum..

Could you please send the link (IN THAI) of the rules/thai law below?

Means,thai law website which its there or thai document support it?

"Article 6. Regarding considering issuing the work permit under Article 4 to foreigners who apply for permission to work for a natural person employer who is not one having the character under Article 5, permission may be granted according to the following criteria:

(1) Foreigners working for an employer earning an income from business operation in the past year cycle or from the current year: for every Seven hundred thousand baht earned by the employer, one foreign employee may be employed but no more than maximum three foreign employee may be employed.

(2) Foreigners working for an employer who has paid taxes to the government in the past year cycle: one foreign employee may be employed for every fifty thousand baht income tax the employer paid. Maximum foreign employee hired may not exceed 3 persons.

(3) Foreigners working for an employer having Thai employees: one person may be permitted for every four Thai employees, the maximum being three persons.

Article 7. The criterion under paragraph one shall be reduced by one half in the case where the permit applicant alien has a Thai spouse in a lawfully registered marriage and in open cohabitation.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com "

Here you can find the work permit regulations in Thai:

http://www.kittilaw.com/thai/workpermit.htm

But be aware, every province interpretes the rules in their own way.

It might be better to get some legal assistance.