Histavia

5 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

deaths from other illnesses left untreated as a reaction to the pandemic, plus normal fluctuations

OK - this is a rather naive approach to the figures. It isn't know what deaths are caused by lack of treatment - what do think that figure would be like in Thailand?? In the UK it is not considered to be statistically significant.

As for "fluctuations" - these are a normal factor in gathering statistics regardless of the year.

So in fact these are not likely to seriously impinge on the overall picture.

basically they are just the result of people looking round for something to support an erroneous and baseless conclusion they want to put forward.

2 hours ago, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

I meant that prople talking about mass testing and the need for that in Thailand. They managed well the first wave, and will do it again without.

It is experience of many countries that the 2nd wave is bigger than theorist......and who knows, there may be a third.  so far Thailand has et off very lightly with Covid. Why is not so obvious..... It may be management, or a strict military regime, climate or just good luck. 

One thing that is certain if Covid showed up in similar numbers to the West, the healthcare system in Thailand would not cope....in fat the level at which it would collapse has not been identified ...... Testing is the best defence - and organising mass testing is again a difficult task for any country. Remember the vaccines will probably not have significant effect until the end of this year.

46 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Not really. When you consider the UK counts all deaths 28 days after a positive Covid test (even if the person fell off a ladder) we don't know the true number of actual Covid deaths. Also all those people who died from other causes because they didn't receive the care they needed will have added to the excess death rate. This is highlighted in the report linked by the OP. 

 

 

 

THat's not actually right. The main way is by checking EXCESS deaths and for comparison deaths per 100k of population.furhermore UK has only just started mass testing. 

3 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

this will put paid to the Conspiracy Theorists claims -

This is unfortunately not true. It is impossible for fools to change their mind. It is the opposite of critical thinking and skepitcality. Once a conspiracy idea has been formulated, no logic, evidence or argument can change it

9 hours ago, GaryAdriaenssens said:

One could start wondering what's really going on here worldwide..... Do our so-called "leaders" really know what they're doing ? Have real doubts about that.

So ...what do you suggest?

3 hours ago, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

@David gilbert As you started another thread: I just wonder how many would test positive if mass testing as in uk were carried out? There doesn't seem to be any in Chonburi unless you go to hospital and pay 6,500 bht

This is a quite useless question, that was asked a lot during the first wave of Covid in Thailand. They managed that with flying colors, and everyone asked the same as you are doing now. Let´s just hope they can steer us clear from this second wave. They managed the first week after new year travel without any thing that lifts the eyebrows. Only one week left to see if they got lucky.

Until this week there has been no mass testing in the UK

On 1/5/2021 at 10:39 AM, WuhanVagabond said:

It's not like the world's population has magically stopped having regular colds and flu because of the Chinese virus;

No other illnesses haven't stopped, but the precautions for Covid also affect the numbers of transmissions for colds and flu.

The key statistics are excess deaths and hospitalisation figures

On 1/11/2021 at 2:15 AM, GeorgeCross said:

oooooh, i love a bit of tourism doom porn in the morning!

 

 

"doom porn" - what do you mean by that?

23 hours ago, techietraveller84 said:

I don't suggest a conclusion. I just had no idea how deadly Thailand's roads were. Apologies for my ignorance, & for offending your sensibilities.

A lot of posts on Covid make the mistake of comparing the stats with RTI stats, which is a false comparison. There is no valid conclusion to be drawn. 

8 hours ago, techietraveller84 said:

It's kind of shocking to realize that traffic accidents have had a much bigger affect on Thai public health than COVID.

This is a spurious comparison. 

Traffic accidents are a long term constant...Covid is a potentially exponentially increasing threat. In UK the effect is now out of control and well exceeds road deaths.

However if you compare the two, what conclusion do you suggest?

PS Road casualties  cost Thailand trillions of baht every year, but Covid has completely decimated the Thai tourist industry which is 20% of the GDP in a matter of months.

On 1/7/2021 at 2:26 AM, BobBKK said:

I'm convinced the two-way U-Turns are a major cause. I wish they had data on where these accidents are - I have never seen such dangerous places in 50 years driving ANYWERE. No one can see anything and people take huge risks - even when not drunk.

The u-turns are dreadful. But they are just a single example of one particular aspect of road safety. What they highlight in Thailand is the dreadful road design and engineering.  Even newer roads are badly designed....the older u-turns are being phased out but they are simply a way of saving money in construction. They are a cheaper way of making junctions without resorting to complicated bridges and roundabouts  

On motorways they now filter off to the left to go over a bridge, but this is still not really a satisfactory solution as the lanes are usually poorly delineated and signed. A straightforward elevated  intersection and roundabout is far safer.

It is worth bearing in mind that Thailand only has around 300 km of real motorway....most of the other big roads are little more than poorly surfaced speedway... too straight and too many lanes, ill defined edges and insufficient barriers with no lane discipline enforceable.

If Thailand is to address road safety, just dealing with one item here and there will have no significant effect on the death toll or crash and injury rates. They have to simultaneously address EVERY aspect of road safety. 

Calling Thai drivers idiots etc just shows how little the people doing so understand about road safety.

Every country has idiot drivers just watch youtube..... the difference is made when a government decides to set up systems that protect idiots from themselves. It is also worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of accidents aren't actually caused by the raving idiots, but (93%) by normal people just making a slight human error, which, because of the driving environment in Thailand, is far more likely to result in death or serious injury..   

It is difficult to find reliable stats in Thailand but if you dig around, you'll find that the number of crashes is not much bigger than even in EU countries. . But the numbers of deaths are 10 times higher or more.

On 1/8/2021 at 6:33 PM, Nout said:

The security forces shot a middle aged white women dead at this demo.

The security forces did nothing during the summer of BLM and ANTIFA looting, arson and rioting.

I think you need to review what actually happened and the forces displayed at the Capitol when the BLM demonstrators turned up. The security had various meetings and warnings before the event - these are all well documented.

However still still understand the logic that states the sins of one in any way justify the sins of another.

21 hours ago, scammed said:

in sweden in winter time, there are no vulnerable road users on the road,

and since its winter almost all year around, very few bother to buy a motorcycle so there arent many on the roads in summer either.

 

is it plausible that this statistic will differ between sweden and thailand ?

Yes there are........I think you are having trouble understanding these stats. ..and who vulnerable road users are. It includes pedestrians for a start.

Of course the  percentage (and numbers) of "vulnerable" injuries varies from country to country. You obviously haven't seen the copious international stats about this. May I suggest you look at the WHO figures...in their website?

I repeat, the term "vulnerable road user" is an internationally recognised category.. 

It doesnt just include motorcycles either ....as I pointed out earlier

BTW - the percentage of vulnerable road users for Sweden comes to around 40%.

Unlike Thailand, Sweden invented and adopted the "Safe System" for road safety and now are aiming to achieve ZERO road deaths.

46 minutes ago, scammed said:

in what country ? that should be specific to nation regarding how many scooters vs cars etc

Come on! Road safety is an international science with definite terms.

the WHO and almost all safety organisations refer to "vulnerable road users"

this is defined as pedestrians (and by-standers) 2 wheels vehicles and there-whelled vehicles.Of course its not specific to numbers it is a term applied to specific types of road users.

Here is the EU definition

Vulnerable Road Users (VRU) are defined in the ITS Directive as "non-motorised road users, such as pedestrians and cyclists as well as motor-cyclists and persons with disabilities or reduced mobility and orientation"

the problem is that people don't have an accurate perception of what road safety is and how it is analysed and dealt with. Terms like vulnerable road user are basic to the understanding of road safety.

27 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Nope. 

 

But I would contend that, had they cared about the tens of thousands of ordinary citizens terrorized by these guys over the past 6 months, most of the ringleaders would have been in prison already and wouldn't have been in DC to instigate the worst of the acts.

 

As in most protests turned ugly, I suspect the majority were there to exercise their 1st amendment rights to peacefully protest what they perceive (rightly or wrongly) as a stolen election. 

 

It'll be interesting to see over the next weeks and months who's behind the hijacking that sent this protest off the rails.  Maybe it was just Trump.  But there's a lot of investigating to do.

 

I think what we can take away form this "demo" - is that they weren't black and the security forces did nothing.

most protests don't "turn ugly"

3 minutes ago, Paradise Pete said:

Correct. The only thing that is not clear is if he pardons himself. If so, then perhaps the new AG will be more likely to bring charges in order to test that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(And of course a presidential pardon will not protect him from state charges such as NY seems to be planning. He'd need the NY governor to do it, and good luck with that.)

Pence could pardon him as acting President. But impeachment can continue regardless of whether or not he's in office.

I have to say, init is unlike Trump to miscalculate - as it seems he has here - unless he realised his later u-turn or retraction speech would be enough to get him off the hook. Let's hope it doesn't...Pence seems to be retreating back into the Trump camp already....

On 1/6/2021 at 5:11 AM, scammed said:

probably 99% of those that died was not inside a vehicle,

but pedestrians/motorcyclists/bicyclists/pedestrians

the usual figure for the category "vulnerable road users" (to which you are referring) is around 80%

3 hours ago, Nout said:

There has been months of rioting, looting, burning, arson, even killing by leftist and liberals. And a full four years of 'resistance' to the democratic process by middle class millennial Marxists and media luvvies. Their hypocrisy is nauseating. Three people died in the demonstration including one woman shot dead by police. But not a murmur from the media. Wrong colour..wrong politics.  But my guess is we are going to see a lot more such demonstrations and 'resistance' from the conservative elements in the USA...Its just starting.

so your argument is that if someone does something you don't approve of, you can do it too?

15 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

Trump could pardon them.
 

If Trump resigns or is removed under amendment 25, than Pence could pardon him!

23 hours ago, elgenon said:

Would the high temperature destroy the nutritional

benefits?

what d' you expect if you drink liquid made from a dead hen?

On 1/1/2021 at 11:25 PM, onebir said:

But the results don't hold up under meta-review, apparently.

The only problem with that "paper" is that "mental fatigue" isn't actually a thing!

The stuff is concentrated chicken stock with a lot of salt.

"Brand's Essence of Chicken (BEC) is produced via a water extraction process from chicken meat for several hours under high-temperature, followed by centrifugation to remove fat and cholesterol, vacuum concentration to 3- to 4-fold, sterilization by high temperature and pressure before bottling." i.e. Chicken stock. 

I guessit's the Thai equivalent of Bovril 

9 hours ago, Loiner said:

And your point is?

 

Are you trying to imply something about a member of a billionaire family (not personally richest in the world), compared to a middle class couple becoming very rich after a career in high political office?

All people in politics are rich.

8 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Boris was predominantly pro Brexit , he just wrote  few articles in favour of some E.U policies over the years .

LIKE THIS?

"Britain is a great nation, a global force for good. It is surely a boon for the world and for Europe that she should be ­intimately engaged in the EU."

article for The Daily Telegraph was written two days before his shock announcement that he would campaign to leave.

"Shut your eyes. Hold your breath. Think of Britain. Think of the rest of the EU. Think of the future. Think of the desire of your children and your grandchildren to live and work in other European countries; to sell things there, to make friends and perhaps to find partners there.

Ask yourself: despite all the defects and disappointments of this exercise - do you really, truly, definitely want Britain to pull out of the EU ? Now? This is a big thing to do, and there is certainly a strong political-philosophical imperative leading us to the door."

Even on the day of the referendum he insisted that UK would continue to be part of European Union, in almost all aspects.

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Tony Blair net worth $30m or $60m, depending on which website. 

Either way it’s unusually rich for a (not Thai) prime minister, even if his wife was ripping off the legal aid system for ‘umane rites’ and migrants. 

Rishi Sunak - Chancellor is part of a billionaire family - one of the richest in the world.

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So? The Johnson family were split regarding Brexit. Some members supported Remaining.

 

As were many other families and friends.

 

Are you suggesting adults can't be free to make their own minds up?

Boris was split on his own - he wrote extensively on why the UK should remain in the EU.

I suspect his only concern with Brexit was which way would allow him to become PM.