bifftastic

Mankind has an insatiable urge to consume and destroy everything on his path to oblivion.

And when all is done and there is nothing left to devour, it will turn on itself for the final feast.

well that's cheered me right up! I think I'll eat my own arm now :-)

There's some vicious,cowardly sacks of filth roaming the UK streets who think nothing of putting someone away for good over something as trifling as a family squabble.How did word get out that Davenport wasn't happy with the company his sister was keeping?

Couldn't agree more. Having spent time on a work secondment to a YOI in the the UK, some absolute sacks of shit that did not have any respect for any other person, and would probably never be of any benefit to society. My thoughts on these type of people are probably best kept to myself, as the Liberals who have done such a good job of breaking down the moral fabric of society in the UK would accuse me of being either a racist or a fascist.

This country just gets worse every <deleted>*king day! It seems we have lost our youth to a culture of violience and perceived 'respect' as young men and women are prepared to take someone's life over nothing. the whole 'don't <deleted>*k with me or i'll kill you' thing see's young people sliced up in my city almost every day. Makes me sad to see a once proud country taken over by this idiotic mentality. And when given whatever jail sentence this pr*ck gets he'll probably sneer and swagger down to the holding cells and not give a toss!

Where I live in East London, this problem affects all the youngsters I see, I don't think it's a racial thing I think the problem affects everyone and i don't know what the answers are.

I never thought I'd even think of leaving my country or my beautiful city but every day I become more and more convinced that I have no other option...I can't imagine growing old here with these <deleted>*kwits bowling around doing whatever they like!!

Breaks my heart.

Hope Calum gets well and the wan*er who did this gets the same treatment inside.

When married to a Thai you can get a non-immigrant "O" visa based on that. With your visa you can get a permission to stay in Thailand, for 90 days. These 90 days can be extended with 1 year and every year afterwards if you meet the following requirements:

- you are legaly and defacto married (actualy living together as man and wife)

- you have an income of 40,000 baht a month OR 400,000 baht in a Thai bankaccount for 3 months (the first month it can be there for only 2 months)

Only your income counts, but it can be from abroad.

If you want to work you will need a work permit.

Thanks! I am confused though! You state that an income or a deposit will do, but you add that only an income "counts". Please clarify. Thanks.

What is confusing? Mario said... "Only your income counts, but it can be from abroad."

That means he can't use any income his future wife might have, but, his income could be from some other country than Thailand.

Getting a work permit in Thailand is difficult, but not impossible.

I wish the OP luck because he certainly IS going to need it. You never marry a single woman it Thailand. You marry the whole family. And, if the famiily is poor then you are expected to support them all.

I was under the impression that combined income of 40,000 baht/month is what 'counts' and by 'counts' they mean 'provable income' ie. Thai tax records from your wife or deposits in a Thai bank account from abroad with e certified letter from your embassy showing the income to be bonafide. And plese, do try some punctuation?

Good luck mate, you'll need it :-)

...and I've read the thread and still can't see exactly why this person isn't going to Thailand...the negative things? such as? ok if you read that some guy bought a house in his wife's name and then she threw him out and kept it...don't buy a house..... you read someone got their wallet nicked at the airport...keep your hand on your wallet! etc. etc. etc.

Why is it your not going to Thailand exactly? I'm still not clear as to the reason for the cancellation. Is the OP meant as some kind of advice? For me, the reasons weren't specific enough to be of any use/help to anyone thinking of travelling to Thailand but just a general kind of 'ooooh Thailand is scary and negative I'm not going'

Everywhere I've been in the world, including my own city (London) has scary and negative aspects to it but there is always something to be gained from broadening your experiences.

I like this forum and have got some very useful information and heard some great stories here but in the end I make my own mind up based on a number of different sources of information and my own feelings.

I'm sorry to hear that the OP has decided not to got to Thailand because of what he perceives to be 'all the bad stuff' that is happening, but I'm still not sure exactly what 'all the bad stuff' is.

So,

if anyone is reading this and trying to make a decision as to wether to come to Thailand or not. I would advise them to think for themselves and not get too bogged down by other people's vague feelings of negativity.

Youve just bagged yourself a bargain break to Scotland havent you ?? come on be honest ,,,,,

I never thought of going there. I wonder how that would work out as related to money spent? I spend an average of $5,000 for a 4 week stay in Thailand. I wonder what $5,000 USD would get me for a 4 week stay in Scotland?

$5000 USD would get you all the smack and fried mars bars you can handle :-)

sorry I got lost....you put your wallet in the bag, put the bag next to you while u eat, then an old guy points out your wallet is on the floor? either your bag got pilfered by gnomes or something is missing from your story bro

Exactly! I can only assume that some light fingered git somehow got into my bag between the ATM and S&P, then the honest thief followed me into said eatery and threw my wallet down on the floor next to me (sans cash). This is conjecture on my part, unless you are right about the gnomes.

I don't think I've ever heard the term "honest thief" before. Seems like a bit of a contradiction in terms. LOL

Why would anybody who was involved in robbing you take the chance of getting caught by following you to where you're eating and give you back your wallet by throwing it on the floor?

doubt the term 'honest theif' is really applicable, more like 'theif who doesn't want to get caught with someone elses credit cards' just take the cash and ditch the wallet.

Sorry to hear about this OP I think you were lucky to get the cards/wallet back, maybe it was the old guy? Or he was handed the wallet by his mates who nicked it off you in the 1st place?

Last time there was an alcohol ban in samui my g/f and her mate managed to have a few beers on the beach but her mate got a bit ummm 'unsteady on her feet' and the police saw them walikng her home and asked how come she was drunk when there was no alcohol allowed? They told them she was still drunk from the day before and they said 'oh that's ok then' LOL

Does anyone know why there is an alcohol ban for elections? Are elections in Samui historically blighted by alcohol induced rioting or something?

Just curious

That book is crap - full of wrong facts.

lol 'wrong facts'

what an excellent concept....'yes that may well be a fact but it's a wrong fact' LOL

Hapens in London more and more these days, really winds me up, specially on the roads when people drive past the queue you're in and push in further down GRRRR! worst i reckon is the underground, saw it on the skytrain in BKK too...people trying to get on before other people have got off! not just rude but really <deleted>*king stupid too! when I'm getting off a train and there are people standing in front of the door i'm exiting from i just pretend they're not there and walk through them...then apologise profusely...and point out that i expected them not to stand there as that's where people get off the train!

I'm not sure if it's a cultural thing or if people worldwide are just less aware or bothered about other people and maybe the world is becoming a less courteous place! It is also possible that this same conversation could have happend in any given culture at any given point in history....'things are not what they used to be...people these days are so rude!'

Nice to hear other people's views on this though :-)

Hmmm only 1??? ok I'm tempted to go with Stella Artois because it's my regular pint of choice but there will, no doubt, be some occasions when heaving a pint of wife beater around would not be appropriate! So.... I'll go with a Champagne...a rose....like....Billecart Salmon Brut...about £80 a bottle :-) I can just see myself squeezing through a crowded dancefloor with a couple of bottles of that and a few glasses in me hand :-) also works at a nice restaurant, a picnic, a nice cold glass after work, a quick lunch...yep I reckon it would cover just about any eventuality, so that's my choice.

Could we all meet up with our respective 'lifetimes drinks' for a party once a year where we get to sample each others choices?

I would say avoid the expensive tourist-oriented massage places near Silom entirely along with the 5-star hotel spas - a massage near where I live (which is still near train transport) only costs 150B/hr & is perfectly fine; but harder for tourists to find perhaps.

Who doesn't tip after a massage?

1) The girls get about 70-90 baht for an hour of massaging

2) They spent 12+ hours a day at work and apart from 3 or 4 hours when they have a customer - they only get paid when they have a customer

all they do is sit, it is phenomenally boring work

3) Then they have to massage sweaty people who have been walking around (without using baby powder!) all day!

4) Their income isn't secure, some days they don't get any customers and therefore make no money

... so tip!

Baby powder??? is that a euphamisim? or do you really cover yourself with baby powder before you start sweating? mmmm that must be lovely when it all congeals

The 'gone native' guy sitting at a cheap crappy noodle stall happily looking smugly up at other farang as they file past

Miserable, cynical female farangs giving 'that' look as you walk past with your Thai partner

Losers trying to pass themselves as English teachers (you know who you are)

The <deleted> shouting in awful bargirl Thai while I'm trying to play a game of pool

The same guy saying "dalling" and "I go with you" jokingly at regular Thai girls

The farang thug (increasingly getting common this) behaving in an aggressive friendly or friendly aggressive way towards other drinkers

The farang on the small nonaircon green bus...get a f**king life will you

The disillusioned sorry-arsed red leather faced sex tourist with no ticket home propping up a bar on Soi Cowboy or anywhere in Pattaya

The old queers who have retired in Pattaya trying to live a 'normal' life in and around Pattaya, who have nothing to do but cruise Sunni Plaza

Ditto sad straight losers above who strut around with their dog-faced ex-bargirls in tow

Anyone trying to live a 'normal' life in Pattaya

Expats who still believe that Pattaya is home to Thai culture, because they haven't been anywhere else but Isarn

The group of drunk good ol' boy tourists on the train trading obscene gogobar stories with each other as if nobody in hearing range could possibly understand what they're talking about (myself included). I'm sure a number of the Thais must also understand and be offended.

Koh Samui is the new Torremilinos by the look of things recently

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sounds to me like you should piss off back to where you came from. Perfectland by the sound of it

It was called AlmostPerfectLand before he left, now it's perfect.

I think that you might want to (or should) get your spelling ability up to snuff before you make any new posts

Are you really talkimg about the place where they have some airplanes landing and taking off or is it some place where people with dyslexia want to write about, just to get a few posts up

if it's spellchecking you're after....it's 'talking' not talkimg and 'aeroplanes' not airplanes. These are actual English words as well not transliterations from Thai. I'll admit that Americans regularly mis-spell many words and have standardised such mis-spelling and claim it to be correct but the language is called English after all is said and done so if you want to pick up on people's spelling where would you like to start?

Anywhere in the mountains away from the lowlifes

Just to be clear, are you saying you DON'T like the mountains because there are no 'lowlifes'?

The thread starts....Thailand fever...have you read it? and then there are some posts that start with...

I haven't read this book but....

wierdos!

Hi I am new to these forums and found it whilst I was trying to get a grasp of the whole farang-thai relationship.

Ok let me break down the situation for you guys and hopefully someone can give me some advice as to what to do.

Firstly im a young guy in his early 20's and was recently in Phuket for my 2nd time. Now im a pretty clued on kind of guy but I am just really confused about this whole situation.

I met a girl in a bar during my stays there, she is 20 and very nice. We danced, we drank, we kissed.. her older sister (mid 20's) asked me when I was leaving if i was taking her back to my hotel. Now because I am new to the whole situation I was taken aback and declined, more so because I was rooming with a female relative so as you can imagine it would have been impossible. I freaked out a bit because from her demeanor and the way she acted she DID NOT seem like a stereotypical prosititute. I replied with, "I am not paying for anything", and her older sister laughed and said "no no you werent going to, its not like that". The girl (younger sister) seemed to like me very much, more than one would presume if you were after someone for money. Now I met with these girls again the next 3 nights at the same bar.

The second night in particular was strange because I turned up 2 hours after our predetermined time and she was still waiting for me albeit not happy at the start .

Her older sister stated that she had many "customer but she wait only for you", in broken english which again freaked me out. We danced kissed etc and myself and my female relative walked her and her older sister back to their hotel. The older sister seemed to open up a bit, saying that yes she sometimes goes to bed with foreign men for money but she doesnt like it. Told me how much she got paid, spoke to me about her distaste for thai men and that she wanted to meet a nice foreigner to take care of her and her child. She has a daughter showed us photos etc. It was a pretty in depth conversation for us not knowing them very well. The younger sister said she had never been with a man for money unlike her sister and that she had no job and got money off her sister. They were in phuket to get some money and live in a town in the North east of the country. I had arranged to see her during the day and she asked if her sister could come with her, im not sure if that has any significance but im including it incase it does!

I have kept in contact with her over the last couple of weeks and I have already penciled in that I will be back to Phuket in January. She calls my mobile almost daily, sends me messages and emails on a daily basis. My friends and family think I am gonna get taken for a ride and are making sure I dont fall for this girl! She never asked for money off me even when I offered to give her some (testing the water). My question to you guys is how would I be able to know if I am going to get played. I dont want to get my feelings hurt, nor do I want to hurt hers. I also dont want to miss out on the opportunity of knowing if this girl is actually legit. She said that night she saw me in the club was the first time she had been there.

What should I say to her? Is 5 months too long to hold onto something that was built in 4 nights? Please help me out... this farang is confused

Ok you've got some research to do mate!

Thing is, she may have some 'customers' but don't necesarily let that put you off! If you like her and she likes you then you need to establish that honesty is the best policy. go see her again and enjoy yourself :-)

In the mean time try and find out as much as you can about Thailand and everything that happens there.

Some people will tell you you're going to be taken for a ride but if you understand how the game works you can't get burned, just the same as it is in your home contry.

Try and understand how these girls life has been and what has motivated them to end up in a bar in phuket. Get your head around the idea that there may well be other guys in the picture as well but that doesn't have to mean she doesn't have feelings for you.

Read as much as you can and try and get your head around it all.

there will be people on here that tell you they wouldn't touch a bargirl for longer than a couple of hours but you have to make your own mind up, you are both young so just enjoy your self mate. Sounds like she's a lot of fun and she's interested in you as well.

tell me, have you sent her any money?

if you do start doing that then only do it like you would if she was here, like to buy her something for her birthday or send her some flowers or something, don't get into the whole sending her half your wages every month and have her tell you ' honey i not work bar same same like other lady only sell drink and wait for you'

Make sure you get the whole truth and that you can get your head around it.

She might not understand that you value the truth so highly, but talk to her gently and if you can get an honest relationship going then great!

Be ready for the idea that she may well be working in the bar and has customers like the other girls do. It's just a fact of life. Doesn't make her a bad person, just makes her a bar girl.

Hope it goes well and you get some thing out of it, when i say get some thing out of it i mean a beautiful Thai girl who treats you well when you're there and makes you feel good.

Good luck mate :-)

my wife hasnt spoken to her family for 4 weeks now,,she rang yestrday only to be told that her father lost or borrowed someone 15000 baht (silly old fkr )!!!!!!! and is left the family now with no money,,our 2 sons are over there and we need get money to them today very quickly as the eldest sister who takes care of them has said they have no money for food or school etc,,,

i know i can send it via western union to siam commercial bank in kra nuen town khon kaen ,,but heres the problem....i cannot spell my wifes sisters name,,my wife has written it for me in english but i dont think she has spelt it properly,,her name from wot i can make out is -praguy nawasrima ? if i go into my bank and give this name but the thai bank on the other side does not understand it will they with hold the money because its not the name of her sister on her id card ? im trying to explain and its difficult so please exuse if i havent made it clear.....

or is it a case of just getting a number from my bank in uk,,,sending the money to siam commercial ,,getting my wife to call her sister and give her sister the number and a secret password....

trying to deal with her family is not easy,,they dont even know how to open an account as i tried to explain to my wife to tel them to do this....putting my bloody head away all this crap..

get someone who is there to sms you the name from the ID card the person collecting the money will show. Use western union as it's available in minutes. They need your name and the amount plus the ID card with the same name on it. If they can't sms get them to take a photo close up of the card and mms that to you. You will get an sms telling you you've got a photo message and to go to your phone companies website to view it.

Banks are a rip off, mine charged me 9 quid...which isn't too much, but then the beneficiaries bank charged her 700 baht as well! and it took 5 days!

western union charge £4.90 for anything under £50 and i think it doubles for up to £100 not sure about the next step up in charges but I've always found them reliable and if they've got no food then £50 should get them by till something else can be arranged?

Hope you get it sorted out

Now i got new apartment to live with my own and concentrate with my work,but sometime just feel lonely,my mom knew about this and she said up to me if i'm not happy with this marry life

i know you feel lonely sometimes but this guy is not good for you or for anyone!

your broken heart will mend and i hope you can be happy in the future.

I hope you don't think all farang man are same like this one!

side angle hmm how to rotate these?

You have to rotate the image before you upload it. Any photo editing software will do it, even Vista can do it (right click on your photo file, choose rotate).

Here you go

Nice, how big is this mansion?

looks much better this way up :-)

Funny, that know-it-all comment about needing to have a degree to get a work permit. That's absolutely not true. You need to have a degree OR EQUIVALENT qualification. That EQUIVALENT qualification can simply be experience that is appropriate for the position. And of course, it's fairly easy to fabricate overseas experience.

I'm not saying it's easy but I've gotten work permits for MANY foreigners over the years and in my current company there are two such farangs. One is myself, so I'm always amused at hearing this line trotted out. I've gotten my work permits and permanent residence over the years without any official raising my lack of a degree. Of course it's easier if you have a history of work permits; it's easier if you're a director; it's easier if you are joining a BOI company and so on. But I've secured work permits for employees who have had very little in the way of relevant experience.

The real hurdle is the HR department. Across Asia a degree is seen as a minimum requirement, but you can argue equivalent experience and that can be seen as an advantage because you are less likely to move on.

Nice to see the other typical Thaivisa chestnuts being rolled out too. "You'll lose all your money if you start a business". "Never invest more in Thailand than you can afford to walk away from" "To make a small fortune in Thailand... start with a large one".

I wonder? Do posters who write such crap think they are qualified because they have lost their own money in some such schemes? Or they are qualified to comment because their long experience in snarking on forums?

There are lots of successful farang owned businesses in Thailand and more than a few are owned and operated by farang businessmen without degrees...

Nice to see something other than 'Thais will all rip you off and all your money will be gone'

glad you've done well :-)

can i have a job please? lol

I have not read the book so my opion about it may not be completely accurate. But from what you described it sounds like the author is not giving the full picture of Thailand. What you described is very much what one would expect if you marry a poor Isaan girl. In essence, if you marry outside your social class then these demands and ways of thinking are typical. However, that is not fair to put all of Thai people into that category. If a poor Thai man marries a poor Thai girl, all the rules change. If a middle-class marries a middle class, it changes again. The expectations above don't apply.

The author may have lived here longer than me, but I think the author's view is based on his/her own experience. I have a different one. I have lived in Thailand and got tired of the money conversations, sad stories, and paying for her and all her friends, and calling back her missed calls because I was not important enough to spend a few baht on a telephone call.

I started to focus on the same type social class of women I would back home. And behold, it is so refreshing to be with someone who doesn't want money, is independent, and actually pays for dinner sometimes. I think the book is focused on the middle class foreigner -to- poor uneducated Thai relationship. Thai men don't date outside their social class. The reasons are exactly as you described in the book.

I guess if you want to deal with those headaches, that's up to you.

I've read the book and it doesn't just talk about poor isaan bar girls, it mentions the changing views in Thai society, slowly changing! but concentrates on cultural differences and general views that people who grow up in a certain culture deem to be inate in everyone, and tries to adress the fact that they are not the same in cultures that have developed indeppendently for thousands of years.

In my opinion, and it does say this in the book, everyone is different irrespective of social class, and any relationship needs understanding and discussion for it to work. I think the book will spark off many of those discussions between people in a relationship and for that it is very worthwhile. It should be fairly obvious to everyone that a book will not solve all your problems but if it gets you talking about them then I think it' a good thing.

As for sticking with your own 'social class' well, when i met my g/f who is poor with 2 kids to support, she took her last 400baht from the ATM and gave it to me. I'm working class myself and yes, I will be sticking to 'my own class' ie people who are genuine and don't care where you come from, what you do for a living or what they've heard about 'people like you'. Can't abide a snob!

That all reads very scary and to think i actually chose to live here

Does is? It all seems very 'everyday stuff' - maybe I've been in LOS too long, but if you went back 10, 20 or 30 years would it be any different here? Wouldn't it have been equal or worse for most of that time in Cambodia / Laos / Indonesia / Philippines / Vietnam / Malaysia even & China... S.E.Asia isn't Basingstoke or Bracknell.

Basingstoke can get pretty scary sometimes!

It can be viewed as quite normal to help support your g/f and show you love her by being generous, without having to be asked.

Because in the west we don't necesarily do that, although it's nice to buy the missus something from time to time, she will often do the same in return, so some Thai ladies think they have to make allowances for our lack of understanding of this whole, money/love thing.

Then there are others who just take the p*ss and ask for a salary!

I think the advice on buying some new trainers then using them to run as fast as you can is quite sound. Then again, you have to make your own mind up and I think you need to have a conversation with her about the difference between your values and hers. if you make it clear to her that this arrangement, if done in your country, would be seen as an unusual arrangement because relationships are based on love and not money and that a 'kept woman' is like a mia noi or second wife/mistress and is not very far removed from having your own private prostitute and she understands that and still wants a salary then I reckon you know what to do!

When I talk to my g/f she says things like 'oh honey now i bollow money my friend 500baht! not hab to pay back' off i go to western union and drop her 1500baht, she's very pleased because a) she didn't ask me directly for money and b ) because i'm understanding of her extended network of friends that all help each other out and she can help her mates out, pay back the 500baht and keep the interdependency going so she will be able to borrow again from her friend and c) i'm not seen as being stingy and can show her that I think about her needs, don't want her to lose face if her mate needs the 500 back, and help her if I can.

Also I feel good because I'm helping her, and i feel that she's not taking the p*ss. If I haven't got it to give her i say something like 'oh honey me too i borrow £50 from my friend because I don't get paid till next week' it's always nice to be the first one to chip in with ('honey! motorcar hab ploblem!!!') then we talk about how tight things are at the moment and everything's ok, pay day i will probably drop her 1000baht then sms the transaction number and tell her to go buy something for herself, if i'm flush i might splash out a bit but only in the same way i would do with a girl here in the UK, make a bit of a show and buy her something or take her shopping.

Every relationship is different and there is definitely a different view in Thailand about b/f giving g/f money as generosity is a way of showing her you care about her.

Some of them take the p*ss and stretch the lack of understanding on your part about this 'phenomenon' and you will need to find out if your g/f is taking the p*ss or not and make your own mind up. Some girls in the UK take the p*ss too, up to you to find out. Also, if you 'flashed the cash' too much when you were with her she may think you're loaded and feel entitled to the status of being kept by you and she might think that you will get a lot of prestige from the whole deal. She is probably wrong in thinking that but i really think you need to have a proper honest conversation with her about how this makes you feel.

Then go buy the trainers :-)

Maybe a small point but embassies always go through applicants' bank records. Even if she is being paid in cash, it's worth telling her to deposit the cash in her bank account. Evidence of the same or similar amount being deposited at the end of the month gives a better impression that she has a regular income in Thailand. My gf has never been asked for pay slips or tax records by the UK, US or other farang embassies in Bkk - just the company letter and I guess that, if the monthly deposits match up with the salary, they don't need to ask for anything more. They also like to see seasoned money. Therefore wiring her one or two hundred thousand baht 6 - 12 months before the application will do a lot more good than depositing the money day before. assuming you can trust her to keep the money that long and not use for a series of unforeseen family emergencies. Mine was once asked by the Australian embassy for evidence of relationship in the form of a photo album of past trips together. This was particularly annoying as we had only travelled as a couple and there was not usually any one else to take pictures of us together. We managed to scrape something together to satisfy those Ozzie idiots but their ridiculous delay made us miss our flight. When we made it to Sydney we took loads of shots together in front of the bridge and with kangaroos for next time. My friend is married to a Singaporean and told me she can travel virtually anywhere without a visa.

Thanks for your info, very useful :-)

Most of her cash is paid into her bank and then transfered to her sister in Chiang Rai to help support her children so I'm guessing there will be records of that?

As far as transferring 100,000 baht 6 months before she comes here.... I was going to sponsor her visit, pay for her ticket and show funds available to me to pay for all her expenses while she was here not give her more money than she's ever seen in one place before and see if she can keep hold of it with two kids to support and a network of friends who always always always help each other out. I think, in my case anyway, that would not be fair on her and would just be asking for trouble.

I do understand about seasoned money and the possibility of me showing long-term support for her, but that's not how our relationship works. i do want her to come and visit me in the UK but I'm hoping that it can be done based on the reality of the situation and that we can show the ECO that it is a genuine relationship of two independant individuals who have no intent to abuse the immigration system by her staying here on a holiday visa.

I have read many threads in many places and there seem to be many different opinions as to how to go about this.

I am hoping that honesty will pay off in the long-run as she genuinely does not want to come and live here. Who knows? maybe she'll love it and want to stay but, somehow, I doubt it.

Oh the thing about the photo's is so true!!! we both have photos of each other but none of the two of us!!! I'll be putting that right in ...just under three weeks :-)

Anyway, thanks to the last poster and to everyone who has helped with their input so far :-)

any more advice will also be welcome :-)

Biff

there are many places on Ram Intra, also an American Rib place, that might have a TV.

Also Kaset Navamin is very popular.

I download the footie and watch the next day.

cheers Beano, I'll check it out.

if you want to watch Sp*rs getting into the top 5 your best bet is to find somewhere that shows re-runs of when Martin Jol was there :-P