ianguygil

I've used it without problems for three years, paying bills and making transfers. SSL encryption is only 128 bit, my other banks offer 256. Maybe not such a big issue as verification by SMS passcode is required to add new accounts to transfer to. Also you get an e-mail on every login.

I am sorry, i also forgot to mention. Our site does support 256 Bit encryption (you can check the Verisign Cert we use to allow us to offer strong encryption outside of the USA). Please check your browser. If it is IE8 it should be fine (earlier versions of IE do not work) and should "step up" to 256 Bit SSL.. I can check on other versions of different browsers to check which will work if you are not on IE

if you have any problems please let me know with a post here on the thread or please PM me. Thanks!'

Ian

Another quick correction, while our site Cert does allow us to offer 256 Bit encryption, we need to change something on the servers to allow it to take effect. I need to check with the product group to see if and when they want to activate. It will at best be in the next release (we work on a release schedule). At this time 128 Bit is still considered to be highly secure and pretty much impossible to break (statistically improbable) but 256 bit is 1 trillion times stronger. So I will get back to you with more details later.

I've used it without problems for three years, paying bills and making transfers. SSL encryption is only 128 bit, my other banks offer 256. Maybe not such a big issue as verification by SMS passcode is required to add new accounts to transfer to. Also you get an e-mail on every login.

I am sorry, i also forgot to mention. Our site does support 256 Bit encryption (you can check the Verisign Cert we use to allow us to offer strong encryption outside of the USA). Please check your browser. If it is IE8 it should be fine (earlier versions of IE do not work) and should "step up" to 256 Bit SSL.. I can check on other versions of different browsers to check which will work if you are not on IE

if you have any problems please let me know with a post here on the thread or please PM me. Thanks!'

Ian

Just a quick note on the market here. I am not going to directly address the babbling about a lack of competition. I have better things to do.

Many of the largest issuers in Thailand are foreign banks, especially on the high end market. Nobody living here can fail to see the Citi credit card ads and specials everywhere. Also HSBC. Not to mention UOB (Singapore), Standard Chartered (UK), TMB (Netherlands) etc. Then there are the new entrants like CIMB from Malaysia. I met with MICROSOFT at All Seasons last night and there is an RMB bank there (also Malaysian). GE Capital was the largest credit card issuer in Thailand until recently when BAY took over GE Money (actually GE took part of BAY in return for transferring the cards).

May recent studies show huge competition in the Thai market and a market reaching saturation for those eligible to receive credit cards.

The regulators were concerned at the growth of this form of unsecured credit a few years ago, which is why they introduced the minimum income requirement. Until then the market was growing very fast at the low end and the indicators were interpreted as becoming a potential bubble. Given the disaster in consumer finance in the US and UK, their intervention seems pretty smart.

I have several studies that I can not post due to copyright, but this seems to be a public report, even though it is a few years old.

http://www.vrl-finan...owing-in-t.aspx

Enjoy!

FYI - the Bank of Thailand (central bank) sets the max.APR which banks may charage for c/card balances.

In some other South East Asian countries the APR is comparable to that of Thailand. If the local banks made more effective use of credit bureau scorecards they may be able to charge a lower the APR for better quality customers, as has happened in more developed economies (what's referred to as risk-adjusted pricing).

Data I reviewed 2 years ago for a major Thai department store credit card showed delinquency (based on account which are more than 30 days past due) then running at 5%.

It is true that the credit card business can be very profitable to banks who under this business well and have strong data analystics capabilities.

The higher risk customers, such as those on smaller incomes, tend to have more revolving card balances (i.e., they just pay the min. mthly payment each month), but these are generally the most profitable customer segment for banks. The min. income of 15,000 baht p/mth is also regulated by the BOT.

It is also much more difficult to collect in Thailand if a card account "goes bad". Which affects the losses written off.

I would note in Philip's post how high interest rates are in the UK. I hope that "Typical 57.8% APR (variable)" must be a typo, but I have seen 30% and higher in the UK. In the US they are also very high at certain banks, although in all developed markets it is possible to find a lower rate and special offers to transfer balances etc.

In Thailand the central bank also closely limits who can get a credit card. They establish the minimum income levels, not just the banks.

So it is a different market in many ways. And people should never simply compare their home country and complain why it does not apply in Thailand (I am absolutely not saying you are doing that, just pointing out that it is different here)

I've had an account with BBL for 25 years and e-banking for several years and pay my bills, and have several transfer payees setup. There were issues before such as IE only and having to go to the bank to fill out a form to add a payee and wait but that has all been upgraded since. Security seems to be improving in areas also. The SMS one time password for adding a payee now requires verifying the account number. Making a transfer, also a SMS of a OTP for security and an e-mail + SMS when accessing your account. Can also use it with your mobile phone.

Basically I find it works perfectly for me.

Thanks for the feedback. And I totally forgot to mention our Mobile iBanking product. This is a skin on top of iBanking which allows iBanking users to access the vast majority of the functions on a mobile device with a WAP2 Browser. The form factor and the capabilities of each browser determine how it works on each specific device (some browsers handle menus differently etc.). But this is a hugely popular service. I use it to transfer funds and pay bills when I am in the car (being driven, not driving myself). It is secure (same 128-Bit SSL which is the difference between old WAP and WAP2, as WAP used to terminate the encryption in the Telco, which is a no -no for a bank).

Thanks again. Much more new things to come in the coming months.

Well, I absolutely cannot claim to be impartial.

But I can tell you that we use the same product as JP MORGAN, WACHOVIA, and many other US banks. And WESTPAC has just signed to use it. So unlike some other banks we did not write it ourselves and we use the accumulated knowedlge of many large banks in the package, but we did have to customize it a fair bit for the Thai market (not just language).

It is secure, reliable and pretty fast. given the Thai internet connections.

Complaints we have had include the need to support more Browser types. We now support Firefox on MAC. The reason we did not before was to do with the testing cycle, we need to test each version of each Browser and OS combination. Some other banks just open it up and let you use whatver, and the site hangs with some browsers. That is not our style. We limit it to things we know work.

I get a LOT of feedback from happy users. I know there will be some who are not happy, and we encourage people to give us constructive feedback (I will not respond to ranting). We continue to invest in it. To develop it. It is one of our most dynamic channels. We have a lot of new things planned for the near future.

Ian

Can a Brit Pension be paid into BkkBank London,if you allready have 2 Accounts with them here in Thailand,and would the ATM be O.K ?

Sure, please PM me and I will get somebody in the UK (our London branch) to call you and help with the setup. I think you need to deposit it locally in the UK first. But I will get them to check and work it out with you. Once I have your PM I will give you my Bank email so we can correspond in private.

Thanks for the thougts guys

Yes my i24 credit card is my primary UK credit card mechanism for global travel even in Thailand.

There is an annual fee of 275 GBP but it does have other advantages amongst which AMEX is not accepted everywhere!

Yes I did also forget about some of the behind the scenes protection a credit card offers that a debit card does not, especially if things go wrong with a purchase.

Getting cash abroad from a UK perspective (except for me THB) with the demise of Nationwide - is another issue. I certainly will not be using my i24 card for that purpose. And given I pay it off every month, no I do not get hit for big fees!

Taken directly from the site

http://www.barclayca...ta/special.html

I

The Barclaycard i24 concierge service.

You can call on the concierge service at any time of the day or night, wherever you are in the world. Whether it's to book a flight or arrange a dinner party, help with tying your bow tie or negotiating a little local language difficulty, the range of services is simply staggering. And, however often you take advantage, it won't cost you a penny extra.

A high credit limit.

With a credit limit starting at £7,500 which could rise as high as £25,000, your Barclaycard i24 card puts you in charge of what you spend and how you spend it.

Access to airport executive lounges.

Whether you're a frequent flyer or an occasional traveller, it's good to get away from the crowds. Your Priority Pass gives you access to over 500 executive lounges in 275 cities worldwide, with phones, fax, internet and, sometimes, conference facilities.

1% cashback on every purchase.

Barclaycard i24 gives you 1% cashback on everything you buy with your card. There's no limit - you'll carry on earning it, regardless of how much you spend. View cashback award rules.

Travel insurance for you and your family.

There's no need to shop around for travel insurance before you go away. Year-round travel insurance for your entire family is one of the many benefits of Barclaycard i24. It even covers you for many physical sports, including skiing and scuba-diving.

Commission-free foreign exchange.

Barclaycard i24 doesn't charge you when you make purchases abroad. You'll even continue to earn cashback on your spend wherever you go in the world.

Typical 57.8% APR (variable)

I had 3 shirts and a sports jacket from a Canali store in San Francisco stolen from my bags at Suvarnabhumi. They were there when I checked in and everybody agreed the bag was ok when it arrived. We were in first, they take the bags for you on TG. When I got home all 4 items were stolen. My credit card, which I used to buy them, paid me back for all of them. But not until after I had met with the local police at the airport (which took time, a lot of time).

So using credit cards has had huge protections for me. Not to forget the discounts and special deals associated with some cards at certain nice hotel chains, the loyalty programs etc. They more than pay for the fees.

Well, I absolutely cannot claim to be impartial.

But I can tell you that we use the same product as JP MORGAN, WACHOVIA, and many other US banks. And WESTPAC has just signed to use it. So unlike some other banks we did not write it ourselves and we use the accumulated knowedlge of many large banks in the package, but we did have to customize it a fair bit for the Thai market (not just language).

It is secure, reliable and pretty fast. given the Thai internet connections.

Complaints we have had include the need to support more Browser types. We now support Firefox on MAC. The reason we did not before was to do with the testing cycle, we need to test each version of each Browser and OS combination. Some other banks just open it up and let you use whatver, and the site hangs with some browsers. That is not our style. We limit it to things we know work.

I get a LOT of feedback from happy users. I know there will be some who are not happy, and we encourage people to give us constructive feedback (I will not respond to ranting). We continue to invest in it. To develop it. It is one of our most dynamic channels. We have a lot of new things planned for the near future.

Ian

I can actually add a bit more - Message from SMILE

Thanks for keeping us up to date with your travel plans, I've made a note of this on your card so that our Fraud Prevention team are aware.

Please note that the £250 daily cash limit still applies to ATM withdrawals and this limit will vary with exchange rates.

For using your card to buy things in shops while you're overseas, there's a 2.75% commission charge on every purchase. This is for converting the foreign amount into pounds and is included in the total transaction when it shows on your statement.

When you use your card to buy currency or travellers cheques or to draw money from a cash machine abroad, as well as the 2.75% charge you'll also be charged a Visa fee.

- Debit cards 2.0% (minimum £2.00)

- Credit cards 3.0% (minimum £3.00)

This charge will show separately on your statement as 'Visa Charge'.

For more information about these charges, please see the credit card tariff and the terms and conditions online

Philip,

One key item I forgot to mention is why banks charge such fees. There is virtually no "spread" on a credit card or debit card transaction. So the banks are in effect doing the transactions for free if they charge no percentage. For all other FX there is a "spread", as a old REUTERS guy like you knows too well. So the fee gives the spread. I covered the whole FX thing in a separate thread a while ago:

http://www.thaivisa....68#entry3880468

Also, the markups I quoted for stores and restaurants of 50% - 100% was on the low side. In the west it is even more, except for sales. My friend here has stores selling imported Italian clothes in Thailand. Markup is a standard 300%+. That is how they can give a discount of 30% to their "best" customers and stil make a profit, as the rent on many stores in the high end malls are 1 million Baht and up per month (many like EMPORIUM require 20 year leases). Watches, perfume, high end goods all command 200% to 500%. Such is life....

I hope this makes sense. Please just view it as the "spread". Just as if you were going to an FX booth.

Ian

Hi guys,

I was sort of pondering - and let's not talk credit cards for the moment, just debit cards because I can compare apples with apples, and additionally credit cards may become a bit of a dodo for me in the future - as why bother if you pay them off every month anyway.

I suddenly realised that actually I need to reconsider my 'two local cards'. My UK smile card and my Thai BBL card.

The next trip to Bangkok is probably going to include a short hop/excursion to Hong Kong.

I am not exactly sure which direct debit card to use in Hong Kong.

Have any expat/Farangs used their BBL cards in earnest across the globe and what are the consequences - acceptability, airlines, rates etc...

Philip,

i know you have ruled out the discussion of credit cards, but I need to include them in this answer. I never use a debit card when traveling. Not because of the charges. I use a credit card and pay it off every month in full. It gives me certain protections when purchasing goods or services over and above other products. As I travel frequently (monthly) and to a wide range of countries, I have found this to be the best approach. While I understand this involves a percentage charge, given the service provided and the large amount of travel I do, I find it to be a reasonable charge. Everybody should keep it in perspective. You normally pay 50% or 100% markups for goods or services (shops, restaurants). 2.5% - 3% is not that bad for moving money around the world, and the protections which come with many high end credit cards.

My approach is to pick up cash when I get to Suvarnabhumi for the target country (I always have Euro, Yen, USD and GBP in my travel wallet as these are the most frequently used currencies for me). I get enough for things like taxi, pubs, tips and a cushion "just in case". Then I use credit cards for everything I can. I do end up with little envelopes of various weird currencies from business trips (Malaysian Ringit, Lao Kip, Indo Rupiah, Vietnam Dong, Swedish Kronor (spelling?) but in general these are places I will visit again.

So that's my approach. I understand I may travel on business much more than most and I am based here. But I find this works pretty seamlessly for me.

BTW, I always keep 50 GBP, 100 USD, 10,000 JPY and 100 EUR in my wallet in a small pocket for the "shit hits the fan" moments. One such happened to me in Manila when the Manila Penninsula hotel limo broke down in a non-savory part of town. And I needed to get out of there. FAST, all dressed up in my banker suit

and am a retired licensed CPA -- I still live on ACHed money to my BB account, and use their ATM card -- even tho' JFC keeps reminding me (legitimately) I'm losing some money. I guess reading the daily stock reports on my investments, or FX reports, what I'm losing in obtaining baht over here gets lost in the shadow.

Jim - An amusing set of thoughts - Yes the FX side is an entirely different matter, not much I can do about GBP (it's down the toilet) but on a welcome note THB is doing well. I have hedged (my bets).

And indeed FX movements are critical to consider for any Expat/Farang especially over the long term.

Philip,

As we have discussed, yours is a most reasonable approach. While I understand that many may not have the cash flow to do it, moving funds periodically and using the local accounts in each country is definitely the approach I would recommend for somebody in your situation.

I am happy it was easy to find the charges on our website bangkokbank.com (while I have not actually checked to see if the references were correct). We strive to make the site easy to use, and easy to search in both English and Thai. As with any responsible bank we ensure our fees and conditions are explained to customers when they apply for the products, and are easy to find on the website, or in our branches. We welcome any recommendations on how we can improve our services and website. And you have already provided some valuable input on the way our UK services are worded. I am still working with the group to improve that description.

Posted 2010-07-30 01:04

Let me try to clarify so I do not use "banker speak"

A customer of UK Bank A whose debit card is tied to the VISA network goes to Thai Bank B and withdraws 20,000 THB from their ATM. Thai Bank B adds 150 THB to the total (which is now 20,150 THB) and debits the amount via the VISA network from UK Bank A at the prevailing rate for the day which for simplicity we will say is 50 THB = 1 GBP.

UK Bank A will debit 403 GPB (20,150/50) plus their charges. If we assume they charge 2% plus 2 GBP (I have no idea of the charges in the UK, I know HALIFAX did not used to apply charges in the other direction). So the total debit in GBP would be 403+8.06+2, giving 413.06. So the "effective" exchange rate to the customer is 20,000 (what they got in THB) / 413.06 = 48.42, less than the FX rate provided by VISA which is 50.

If a customer of UK Bank C went to the same Thai Bank B, did the same transaction, but UK Bank C did not levy charges, they would actually get an effective exchange rate of 49.63 (rounded) which is 20,000/403, but the actual FX rate used is still 50 for both banks. The difference in the effective exchange rate is due to charges which are set by each bank

In either case, Thai Bank B would get the same amount from UK Bank A and UK Bank B and this is based on the VISA FX rate in effect

I hope this makes sense. And I hope this helps. I rushed to do this as I am in a meeting listening. So please excuse any errors.

Good luck.

This post has been edited by ianguygil: 2010-07-30 01:20

Meanwhile, for the rest of us back on Planet Earth..........................

I posted the above as part of a thread in July when I was in California on a business trip. I hope this explains better how both fees (set by each bank) and the FX rate (set by the network) affect the cost of the THB you receive, and the amount of the debit you will see on your account in your home country.

While this example applies to the UK, the same calculations can apply to the USA, OZ, Canada etc.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask questions or point out errors. As it said I was writing this while in a meeting on my laptop

Good luck,.

Ian

http://www.thaivisa....-on-28-july-10/

Ohh Ian.. you've cut me to the quick!!!

I guess you really only want to spend your time here telling people how they can give their hard earned money to your employer...instead of actually saving it for their own use...

By the way Ian, since I assume you do know something at least about Bangkok Bank's procedures....

Does BKK Bank really charge its own account holders a 2.5% foreign currency fee when they use their B1st Visa debit cards to either make purchases or withdraw cash abroad (outside Thailand)???

*When making payments or withdrawing cash overseas with your Be1st Visa Debit card, the amounts will be converted to Thai Baht, based on Visa's normal exchange rates. A conversion charge will be added, but will not exceed 2.5% of the exchange rate applied.

http://www.bangkokba...es/default.aspx

John

Thank you for your interest in Bangkok Bank

I only spend my own time to answer questions for reasonable people.

For product information, please contact your local branch or call our Contact Center on 1333. They can answer your questions. Thanks

No, not at all.

I am happy to spend my time answering questions and helping with problems where I can. It is fine if we do not come out ahead in all comparisons. That is definitely not my point.

But I will not spend time answering people on some kind of religious campaign as has been pointed out about you by other members of this thread. Whatever I say you bend it around to the bad banker routine, and to your narrow view of the world.

So I wish you the best in living your life on this and so many other forums. And in expressing your frustrations at life in general on these.

I honestly have work I need to do, and I will definitely not respond directly in future to your inane and emotional rants. But your behavior will also not force me off the thread.

Enjoy standing in line wherever you go :jap:

By the way Ian, since I assume you do know something at least about Bangkok Bank's procedures....

Does BKK Bank really charge its own account holders a 2.5% foreign currency fee when they use their B1st Visa debit cards to either make purchases or withdraw cash abroad (outside Thailand)???

*When making payments or withdrawing cash overseas with your Be1st Visa Debit card, the amounts will be converted to Thai Baht, based on Visa's normal exchange rates. A conversion charge will be added, but will not exceed 2.5% of the exchange rate applied.

http://www.bangkokba...es/default.aspx

John

Thank you for your interest in Bangkok Bank

I only spend my own time to answer questions for reasonable people.

For product information, please contact your local branch or call our Contact Center on 1333. They can answer your questions. Thanks

And, for the record, E*Trade didn't "reimburse" the 1% network fees to its account holders. It simply never passed them along. E*Trade did and does reimburse the 150 baht Thai bank ATM fees..

Jeez. Semantics aside, E*Trade gives (or did) good deals to ex-pats. How you can (or did) take full advantage of one (the 1% not-passed-on-fee-that-functions-identically-to-a-reimbursement), while not the other (because it's for the occasional tourist) is a nonsensical argument.

Jim,

I am responding to you so I can stay on this thread, but I have no issue with what you have said.

I am sure you and others on this site understand that SCHWAB and other banks who refund fees do so because they have made a deliberate decision not to invest in a huge ATM infrastructure (although they have have a small network). For those banks who do invest is a hugely expensive undertaking. There is the cost of each ATM which is many thousands of dollars, the cost for the location where each ATM is installed which is often rented, the cost of the security infrastructure, physical and logical to protect the ATM, the cost of the ATM Switch to "run" the machines and process the transactions, and the cost of power and continually servicing the machines to make sure they have cash and deposit slips, and ink and are working properly (wow, long sentence, my English teacher would be horrified ).

These companies who do not have their own ATM network may change their terms once there is an increase the ATM fees imposed by those banks who have made this huge investment.

In the case of SCHWAB, the are not a "direct bank", they actually have a few hundred "branches" even if they call them something else, so they are not a "1 branch wonder" like some (all banks need at least 1 physical branch in the USA to get a banking license).

So nobody should rely on any of these "no fee" or "refund all fees" arrangements. They change based on the market conditions, and the costs imposed by the ATM newtorks. One of my best friends heads the PULSE network in the USA, and that market is definitely in flux. The ATM networks are becoming the core of many mobile commerce initiatives, and companies like DISCOVER are partnering with the major cell phone providers to process their payments. So the alliances and partnerships are sometimes bewildering.

So the point of this post is that SCHWAB make a business decision based on what they feel is cheapest for them, and with the use of cash dropping so quickly, partly because of debit cards (and party because people have less cash) you can expect some major changes in the future. SCHWAB has a huge disclaimer that this can all change at a moments notice, and everybody should respect that and expect change.

Ian, I guess I'm not surprised you would make the suggestion below.... But I wouldn't agree with it...

I seriously doubt Schwab adopted the international ATM fees refund policy on their accounts with the idea that account holders would be living abroad and repeatedly incurring reimbursable ATM fees... especially the sky-high nearly $5 variety charged by the Thai banks "robbery pool" scheme. I would guess instead that Schwab's international ATM fees refund policy is geared more toward business travelers or tourists who might periodically incur such fees.

As such, and as a responsible account holder, I would not want to "abuse" the privilege associated with the account. And I would not want to engage in the kind of ATM behavior that would cause Schwab to either a) revoke the fees policy for a particular user's account, which I believe they reserve the right to do in the case of abuse, or b] to scrap the policy across the board for everyone.

So, as long as there are viable non-fee-charging ATMs available in Thailand such as the AEON ones, if they're available to a person, my view is it would be the responsible approach to use them so as to not "abuse" the account privilege offered by Schwab or other similar accounts.

Of course, the better approach would be for the Thai banks to adopt a REASONABLE, JUSTIFIABLE fee policy for foreign card ATM withdrawals, which most people including myself would have no problem with. But I think we've seen no sign that your employer or the others are inclined to do that, preferring instead to soak tourists and ex-pats who use foreign cards with what probably is one of the highest fees of its kind (fee charged by home country banks for users of cards from other countries) in the world...

So as to "shake the cage" again on this subject of ATM charges.......

I have SCHWAB as I have said several times before, in fact I have had an account with them since they were owned by BofA back in the 80s' until Mr. Schwab bought them back (smart man). But I have never used their ATM card in Thailand as I work for Bangkok Bank.

As SCHWAB will refund all ATM fees worldwide, it seems to be that a very reasonable approach for a SCHWAB account holder while in Thailand would be to go to the ATM which is most convenient for them, be it a Bangkok Bank ATM or any other ATM in the ATM Pool (we have more than 7,000 ATMs, so I assume the whole ATM Pool is more than 20,000 machines). As any fee will be refunded by SCHWAB, why go to the trouble of finding a non-Pool ATM to avoid the charge?

I know they may "miss" the 150 Baht charge and you may need to send them a message to get it, but that could be easier than treking around to fine such a non-Pool machine.

John

Wow, You can even define what is ok and what is abusive. And you can define what SCHWAB would think is reasonable and what is not. What a guy. You really are a "legend in your own mind"

Enjoy your ramblings. I need to go to a meeting.:jap:

So as to "shake the cage" again on this subject of ATM charges.......

I have SCHWAB as I have said several times before, in fact I have had an account with them since they were owned by BofA back in the 80s' until Mr. Schwab bought them back (smart man). But I have never used their ATM card in Thailand as I work for Bangkok Bank.

As SCHWAB will refund all ATM fees worldwide, it seems to be that a very reasonable approach for a SCHWAB account holder while in Thailand would be to go to the ATM which is most convenient for them, be it a Bangkok Bank ATM or any other ATM in the ATM Pool (we have more than 7,000 ATMs, so I assume the whole ATM Pool is more than 20,000 machines). As any fee will be refunded by SCHWAB, why go to the trouble of finding a non-Pool ATM to avoid the charge?

I know they may "miss" the 150 Baht charge and you may need to send them a message to get it, but that could be easier than treking around to fine such a non-Pool machine.

...

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

Ian,

I will be opening a Bangkok Bank account in January (next trip to LOS) and use New York branch ABA routing number solely as an emergency backup option should I ever have problems with ATM's in the future. I am currently with TMB and have the VISA Electron card linked to my savings account. I have never explored credit cards in LOS but I understand it is also difficult for foreigners to get a new car loan. This is a secured loan and so I don't understand the reluctance by Thai banks. But I want to buy a new car when I retire in LOS and is it possbile to get a loan through Bangkok Bank? Didn't want to hijack this thread so please PM me if you think best, and Thanks!

Bob, sent you a PM. Let's deal with this outside the forum for privacy. You can decide to post or not post whatever you want after we talk.

Ian

Bob, I sent the PM again. If not received please send me your email and I will get in touch with you from a Bank ID

...

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

Ian,

I will be opening a Bangkok Bank account in January (next trip to LOS) and use New York branch ABA routing number solely as an emergency backup option should I ever have problems with ATM's in the future. I am currently with TMB and have the VISA Electron card linked to my savings account. I have never explored credit cards in LOS but I understand it is also difficult for foreigners to get a new car loan. This is a secured loan and so I don't understand the reluctance by Thai banks. But I want to buy a new car when I retire in LOS and is it possbile to get a loan through Bangkok Bank? Didn't want to hijack this thread so please PM me if you think best, and Thanks!

Bob, sent you a PM. Let's deal with this outside the forum for privacy. You can decide to post or not post whatever you want after we talk.

Ian

Here are a couple of other sites that may be of use:

1: The Thai Bankers Association - this page links to the Knowledge Base which includes several valuable links

http://www.tba.or.th/knowledgebase.htm

2: The Bank of Thailand - This one is useful so you can see the actual laws which govern Foreign Exchange etc.

http://www.bot.or.th...BOTDefault.aspx

Good luck.

Hi Ian, Not a problem.

Just got back from Nationwide.

To paint the picture the guy did say we are just a branch I will have to make some phone calls - Watching one side of the conversation and the screens Nationwide have access to, but not its clients - and I noted it did say on one screen you do not give this phone number out to clients - some valuable information appeared. (And BTW there was a lot of security handshaking as well.)

Essentially Nationwide use HSBC and they will quote a GBPTHB= rate that is valid up until 1pm UK time. it happened to be 46.495 whereas BBL's rate, a short while later, (a five minute walk) was 47.23 and World first 47.385 (but that is only indicative). What would happen if I ticked the 'pay all the other end fees' could not be explained by Nationwide.

My own personal UK position is that I do have a BBL account, I no longer need to transfer exact amounts, and times for transfer are not critical either.

I can get around the BBL Thai end fee of 500 THB by converting and shopping around and indeed getting a slightly better rate, plus a next day delivery type service.

However for the moment, and all things change, using BBL London is not a bad option - I think however that you guys are really missing out on quite a few tricks - not a subject for this forum though - another time - Philip.

Philip,

Thanks a lot for taking your time to clarify this.

The problem with the THB is that it is not a major trading currency. So while it may be dear to the hearts of many of us who live here, or who plan to live here, and while it is the core of all Thai banks, it is not something the offshore banks in places like London want to get into. So that is why I always tell people NEVER to change their cash into THB at a currency exchange outside of Thailand, and ALWAYS to change their money back in Thailand to their home currency before they leave here (unless they plan to hold onto it for later).

Thanks again. We value your business and I always appreciate the positive feedback. We are definitely not perfect and customer feedback is our best source to help us improve.

IAn

I am going to Thailand soon, and need a lot of Baht to buy a car etc. Is it better to bring cash Euro money and exchange that, or deposit the money on my Euro bank account

and transfer it to my Thai bank account?

Thanks for any help

Swift it to your Thai Bank account, if you change cash you'll get the sight bill rate along with Traveller Cheque rate they aren't good & some banks will charge to deposit cash into a foreign currency account so getting the TT rate that way won't save you any.

The typical funds exchange:

- Gets the Notes buying rate when exchanging cash.

- Gets the Sight Bill buying rate when exchanging traveler cheques.

- Gets the TT buying rate frrom the Thai bank when wiring/SWIFTing/ACHing money. Almost always better to wire the funds in your home currency and let the Thai bank automatically exchange the funds at their TT buying rate versus letting the sending bank convert to baht before sending as that usually results in a 1 to 3% lower exchange rate (nice little profit made at your expense by the sending bank)...send in home currency and let the Thai bank exchange automatically at the TT buying rate.

Don't think the OP was talking about transferring home country currency into a foreign currency account. For medium to large sums of currency exchange wiring funds and getting the TT rate is the best way to go/get the most bang per buck/euro/pound. Cheers.

All correct, I will just add a few items and will provide a link to our service at Bangkok Bank at the end for those transferring from the UK.

The rates you see on this site, or on any bank site are all "indicative" which means they were correct at a point in time during that day and are approximately the rate you will receive (I am not sure where this site is sourced from, many source a frame from BangkokBank.com, mainly newspaper sites such as the Bangkok Post etc.). Most retail transfers for consumers are given the "street rate" which is set periodically during the day. The frequency of the rate is based on the volatility of the currency that day. In times of high volatility it can be many times per day, on other days it can be once or twice.

The rates are always set by the treasury in each bank. This is one of their primary activities. The FX Traders are in the Treasury.

As stated, the TT (Telegraphic Transfer) Rate is used for SWIFT or other types of international wires. You would get the "buy" rate as you are asking to sell your home currency (GBP, USD, AUD etc.) for the Baht. So you are selling that currency in question and the Bank is buying the foreign currency. Which explains the Buy side from the Bank perspective as we are setting the rate, and you are coming to us and asking us to buy it and sell you Baht.

If you have a larger amount, probably more than 50,000 USD, you an approach a bank and ask for a FX deal rather than taking the street rate. That can be spot, or forward, but in some locations forwards are not available to consumers. In this case the bank will fix a rate for you so there is no risk. If it is a forward it locks you in and protects you against currency risk. But if your currency goes up you lose out.

The reasons banknotes get a worse rate is that there is manual processing involved and the funds are locked up until we can sell those banknotes on.

The different between the Buy and Sell rates for a currency pair is the "spread' and that is how the banks make money on buying and selling currencies. As commercial operations banks need to make a profit on services. I am sure all understand that.

I do hope this demystifies things. I know "banker speak" can be kind of confusing. We create our own world....

For the original posted who wanted to send funds from the UK to Thailand, you can do via our Bangkok Bank branch in London (right next to the Gherkin) and send the funds to us via BACS which will be cheaper in general than a normal SWIFT payment. The link for that is here

http://www.bangkokba...0from%20uk.aspx

Please PM me if you have specific questions. i am writing this quickly over lunch at my desk so I trust I have not make major errors. Thanks

Good luck.

Hi Ian - you know you are in a difficult position, the advice you give to me - UK based - is spot on - It obviously does not translate to the other countries BBL has a correspondent bank presence in, or indeed in other peoples circumstances – however you have always openly acknowledged this.

For me it has truly been a roller coaster of a ride with transfers to Thailand. We - UK - generally actually convert to THB at the UK end for the transaction.

I used worldfirst

Better rates than BBL but you paid the UK transfer and optionally the Thai fees - this was critical as at the time as I was purchasing a condominium (and you know what you also really need to know what you are doing on property purchases in Thailand - Freehold condos in Bangkok near the BTS or MTR for Farangs!). Exact amounts were required for TAX issues and I did not have a Thai Bank account to assit at the time.

What happened next? - The onshore offshore issue. Even the esteemed dr naam, for whom I have a huge amount of respect, did not quite grasp what was happening - Its all on the pinned thread on this section of the forum

So then it came down to AMEX card, (and that is not as bad as it looks in the UK I get back 1.5% on everything I put on it) and a UK GBP final payment via Nationwide to the develpers account at SCB - not err an exact amount - but dealt with by all concerened. The implications for that transfer were on 10m THB I could have been hit for 10% tax due to the emergency.

I have stabilised with a Thai BBL bank account - And you know what, another reason for this is to establish a personal credit history in Thailand as I move to operate here - IMO CRITICAL STUFF- as I accidently now seem to have serious assets here - It was not planned, but they are now of deep significance to me.

As a show of good will for your thoughts and help I will pop up to the Hampstead branch of Nationwide and take a good look at the forms. But as I have no need to test this service - and yes the UK expression is 'Test The Market' - I can only concluded from what I see -but I am no slouch

Will get back to you - Philip

Philip,

Please do not go to too much trouble on this, although I know NATIONWIDE as the largest building society in the UK has 700+ branches so you do not have to go far (for non-limeys, building societies are mutual organziations like credit unions in the USA) . Unlike Metro Bank which has just 2 branches as of today both in London, with 2 more opening this year.

If you want to make sure that funds are sent directly, you can ask them to put "do not convert" in the SWIFT message. Buf if the bank in question does not have a correspondent relationship with the Bank holding the account in Thailand (us in your case) it will have to go through an intermediary anyway. And that will incur charges both for the processing and the domestic clearing.

As for the credit history in Thailand, that is more and more important, as more companies share information via the NCB (National Credit Bureau). Again, that is a cooperative venture, nothing to do with antitrust, and unlike the US it is free for consumers to get their status whenever they want, in fact it is mailed twice a year to your home address.

I hear many foreigners complaining that it is hard to get a credit card here, but that is true in any country if there is not an easy means of recourse should a customer decide not to pay. People like you with assets in Thailand can often find it not such a headache to get local credit cards, so please contact me offline should that ever be of interest. Thanks

Ian

As long as you keep handing out bad banking advice, I'm going to keep providing the facts that correct you....

No bitterness at all.... Just disappointment at someone who seems to have so little regard for other people's money.

And, I do think it's fair to say, the banking industry isn't particularly renowned for it's commitment to consumer interest or consumer protections...

You're the one making it personal....

Oh, poor John, did big bad banker Ian pick on you??

You continually misquote me and take comments out of context. You insult me as one of the bad guy bankers, when actually I spend my own time trying to help with problems. And your fantasy world has some non-existent conspiracy and US anti-trust laws applying in Thailand. Great reporting skiils, rigorous research. I can tell you honed those over the years.

As I said many times, I am happy you have found a way which works for you. And it is great that you have the time to spend on this forum and taking the trip to your local ATM. I will definitely stay on this forum responding to the comments of others. But not to all posters, if you know what I mean.

Enjoy, :jap:

This for me has been a great thread as we explore the strategies in play. And of course the wind ups between the tea drinkers (brits) and the colonials (yanks)

Hi - jfchandler - One thing I sort of didn't get is that you say yes you do have a rental bill, I am guessing it is non trivial.

You obviously have to get this to Thailand and I am guessing you must have some sort of Thai banking presence. Surely you are already absorbing the costs of transferring for rental, just as I do for condo maintenance electricity etc.

Why don't you just add your cash needs to the rent transfer? It does look like the US guys get a much better deal than we tea drinkers do.

I did look at https://www.metrobankonline.co.uk/ It simply has passed its expiry date for my needs, but thanks.

Well although I know my UK use of BBL incurs 20 GBP and 500 THB plus a 7 working day (with all the FX implications) end to end transit v.s SWIFTS 20 GBP fee (via Nationwide) 500 THB fee and pretty much next day delivery - There is some mileage in my actions, mostly convenience, but I suspect many will not see this.

I am guessing as a retail bank BBL will want volume via their UK operation but they may still be gearing up and essentially using people like myself to test drive. There is no risk in this but certainly use of BBL London will not appeal to many people, IMO its needs more incentivising.

Philip

One thing you may want to check with your bank in the UK is if the 20 GBP charge is the total charge you will be facing with a SWIFT payment, or if this is just their side of the charge. As you know, and as I mentioned in a prior post, the default is "charges to beneficiary" with SWIFT. So if you sent 10,000 GBP, and they debit you 10,020 GBP, the intermediary banks and the beneficiary bank may also levy charges. So the amount you receive may well be lower not just due to the FX rate, but also due to charges deducted.

One of the moderators on this site who received funds from Australia posted that he had a bad FX rate with us. When I looked into it (after he contacted me via PM) it ended up that his bank in Australia, while one of our correspondents, decided to send the funds to Citibank in Thailand, who then sent the funds to us via BahtNet a day or so later. So not only were his funds delayed, but he faced a pretty hefty charge for the processing at Citi and the Bahtnet transfer.

So what is advertised may be true on the NATIONWIDE side, but it is not all of the charges that you face.

As you know, SWIFT payments rely on a web of correspondent relationships, which is banks having accounts with each other. It is not a clearing system like FEDWIRE or BACS. So each bank involved, each hop, has the right to charge something for their services. As in any service industry.

You may want to ask NATIONWIDE for a clear statement of the charges you would face if you used their direct service for SWIFT, end to end. I have, however, routed your question to our GPSD group and the product people to see if our offer is as compelling as we hope it is.

Enjoy your weekend. I just got back from meetings, then a funeral for the mother of one of my staff who died suddenly. Busy day.....