ianguygil

I am pretty confident that all the things I have said and proven and demonstrable.

The variables for all to consider are the amount of the transfer, the frequency of the transfer, their cash position (how far in advance they can fund), their proximity to one of these non-Pool ATMs you mention, and how much they view their time is worth to get to such an ATM if it is not just around the corner. Each person can then make their own decisions. And if they decide to use a Bangkok Bank ATM the 150 Baht fee will apply as with all ATM Pool machines. And if they decide to use our funds transfer services in the USA, UK, Japan, South Korea or Israel they can save on the normal SWIFT transfer fees, and the fees are clearly stated on our site.

I have no idea of your specifics, and as you are not our customer I really can not help you

All contacts via PM are always welcome and treated in a confidential manner. I prove first I am with the Bank then I refer internally to other parties to resolve any issues, or explain what happened if other banks are involved as is often the case.

Good luck.

I am an exec in Bangkok Bank. I have made this clear in this forum and in this very thread

I contribute to this forum not to get more business, that is not my role, it is to try to extend a helping hand to people (mainly foreigners) who may have questions about or problems with our services. And I do this in my own time, on lunch breaks or when I get home.

And when I do get involved I always deal with the specifics of the issues offline for reasons of confidentiality. If people want to post the details of this on the forum this is their choice.

As I have said many times, it depends on the specifics of the individual. It depends how much is transferred and how often. I happen to know more about PKRV as he had an issue before that I helped to explain. And in his case (and I was responding to him) he is definitely doing what I would recommend. He is a customer, and I will not get into his specifics, but his case makes moving funds as he does both the most cost effective and the best use of his time.

So I am not wrong in what I said in my response to him. Which was clearly addressed to him.

In your case, the amount you transfer and the frequency of the transfer may differ (your mileage may differ as we say). And you may live closer to one of these ATMs which are not part of the ATM Pool.

Having both American and British citizenship, and having worked in both US and UK banks before Bangkok bank, I can be insulted on both sides if you want

When I said the issuing bank controls the overall limit per day, that is the bank in your home country who issues the ATM card or Credit Card.

Thai bank ATMs do have an overall limit per foreign card to control risk. So if somebody gets hold of a card and somehow the PIN, possibly using the old skimming and video the keypad routine, they can only get so much cash per day. But crooks like that often go day by day until they can empty out the account. Which is why banks offer SMS and email alerts for many services and why banks are progressively moving to Chip and PIN to prevent skimming

So as I said, the ATM limit is based on the number of banknotes and the largest denomination the machine has. If it is a 20-note ATM and there are only 100 Baht bills left, the maximum withdrawal will be 2,000 Baht. 500 Baht bills gives you 10,000 and so on.

And the overall limit I quoted is for a Bangkok Bank Premier card, which can be up to 500,000 THB per day.

Many more US banks are on the ACH either as members of participants than use CashEdge. In fact CashEdge works with NACHA who run the ACH as a product which works with ACH rather than around it. And in the US most Bill Payments use CheckFree, not ACH or CashEdge. I know that CashEdge is trying to get into the P2P payment space, moving their old Web based product to the Mobile world. But for a fair sized payment most banks will use ACH as the fee (to them) is pennies not dollars.

PKRV, nice to see you on here again.

The limitation is the number of bills the ATM can dispense and push out of the slot without the risk of jamming. On most new ATMs it is 20, on some it is 25. So as the largest denomination of a banknote here is 1,000 THB, the maximum amount per withdrawal is normally 20,000 THB, and at times 25,000.

The limit on the daily withdrawals is set by the issuing bank normally. In our case our highest limit is I believe 500,000 THB per day (which is a lot I know). This can be lowered by the cardholder by requesting a lower limit.

Your suggestion of moving funds once internationally (every 6 months or so) then using a local card for day to day withdrawals is definitely the most cost effective. And it is what I would definitely suggest. However, it does depend on the cashflow of each individual as some may not have the available funds to transfer 6 months of living expenses in advance.

Anyway, nice to see you on here again. Please do keep in touch.

So this is my absolute last post on this subject, as I do this in between meetings and other work here.

Bank charges in Thailand are highly regulated, much more so that in most western countries (US, UK etc.). So you will often find almost no difference in charges between banks (that is not true for interest rates except for the maximum interest rate). As a reaction to the financial crisis in the West I know that they are also regulating charges and conditions more closely.

Anti trust and price fixing is a concept which is applied differently around the world, and even in the US there are major exemptions.

I have no idea how this charge was first implemented and how quickly each bank adopted it. But just because most major banks did the same thing did not mean it was pre arranged. It could be just follow the leader.

And as Jim said, the number of ATMs in Thailand is just breathtaking compared to most countries, developed or developing. I met with some World Bank consultants about Mobile Commerce around the start of the year and their first comments to me were how amazed they were with the number of ATMs and how modern they are. These clearly benefit the Thai public as a whole, it is more convenient for them and they do not have to go far to get access to direct banking services. And as I said the ATM Pool (which is cooperation, not anti-trust) allows Thai card holders to use another banks ATM on the ATM Pool up to 3 times a month with no charge.

Signing off now Not sure if my next meeting will me more fun though

As I said I am not going to debate the fees. And to be honest I do not have any information as to how the 150 Baht fee decisions were made. If you have concerns you should probably contact your bank or Thai regulators who could answer your questions. It makes no sense for me to provide my opinion. But continually comparing it to the US, which is a different market, and runs under a different set of regulations, is not really valid.

So as I said, I will answer specific questions about our service. And I will help to resolve any problems for customers using our service.

The system here is designed to ensure that there is not a major unbanked population. Given that this is a developing country, it is essential that the banking system is inclusive. So all the major Thai banks tend to have large numbers of accounts with low balances so the needs of the vast majority of the population are met for cheap, convenient and cost effective banking. Actually, the amount of foreign ownership in banks here is far higher than in the USA. Also, the unbanked population in the USA is huge and is growing as many people are pushed out of the formal banking system and have to rely on check cashing services which take huge fees from people who are already poor.

Anyway, my point here is not to debate but just to answer any specific questions.

It should definitely work. Please go in to the nearest branch if you still can not get it to work. They will stand with you and take you through the steps. If you need more help please PM me. Thanks

Without getting too far in to the question of fees, Thai banks tend to not impose minimum account balance fees as exist in the USA, UK and many other countries (I worked both for US and UK banks before). Access to ATMs are also free for Thai card holders (even foreigners) and you can even use another bank's ATMs 3 times a month for free as long as the are part of the ATM Pool. So you need to look at the big picture for bank charges. Although I understand that the focus here has been on the charge for the non-Thai ATM cards.

I think the important thing here is for everybody to have the information of the options available to them, and to make their decisions based on their specific situation, how much money they move and how often. Where they live. I do warn people about using relatively unknown intermediaries to move funds (I see people talk about some FX shops I have never heard of). Please all remember that if you give somebody your money and you don't know who they are, it is possible it will never arrive on the other end.

Good luck.

Exactly, the funds are in a holding account between your US Bangkok and Bangkok Bank in New York. There is no need for the customer to open an account with us in New York, and as I have stated our consumer accounts in New York are not FDIC insured.

So paying from your US bank to us via ACH, the getting access to the funds via our thousands of ATMs in Thailand is a very convenient option. I see many people here have strong opnions that they have found a more cost effective way, and the amount of the actual savings clearly depends on the frequency and amount of the transfers. And the value placed on the time taken to go to one of these ATMs which are not part of the ATM Pool in Thailand.

I do agree that finding a US bank which will refund the costs of the local Thai ATM charges for ATMs in the ATM Pool is a reasonable way of cutting your costs. I also use SCHWAB in the US, and they have definitely always provided me with excellent service there, but I have never used their ATM card here in Thailand, even though I live here.

Please PM me if you have any specific questions about your transactions at Bangkok Bank and I will get somebody from our contact center to help you out.

Good luck,.

I believe that WIN/7 HOME is about 1,400 Baht in Thailand. Maybe less.

The most cost effective way to get WINDOWS is to get it preloaded on the PC as an OEM version. That is much cheaper but you can not load it onto another machine if you dump the netbook.

Copying a version from another machine is not just illegal, but you won't be able to use it properly as it will have already been activated. So many things you could get for free, like the Security Essentials antivirus and antimalware software, will not work.

If you get a bootleg/pirate copy it often comes with malware and trojans. So please just pay the money (to any vendor, not just MICROSOFT) and do without all the headaches.

WIN/7 HOME does not have the glass effects so the video card should not be such an issue. More RAM is always good, more important than the CPU normally.

Good luck.

I have been pretty open in this forum in the past that I work for Bangkok Bank.

We are not perfect, but we are always happy to receive feedback and strive to do better. If any of you have problems or concerns please contact me via PM. I will then deal with your issues in a confidential manner via email. It is up to you to decide what you publish on this forum as to the problem and our response. I personally find this forum to be valuable and have helped a few members directly. Customer feedback is one of the best resources we have to help us to improve. So please feel free to PM me and I will do what I can to try to help.

Good luck

Ian

I stand corrected.

It is strange. The first time I used the service they made a big point in the Consular section (which is where they do this) of telling me that I had to go in person and that my wife (who is Japanese) could not go without me.

Our documents are always for use in the US for various properties and investments.

Just shows I should look up the rules and not listen to the people who do the job. And argue if they do not comply to the rules.

I always use the US Embassy for this. It is only available to US Citizens and Permanent Residents. The costs are on the site or give them a call.

From the Daily Mail last week in the UK. This should reinforce the need for all to ensure their computers are patched and protected with antivirus/antimalware software. This is a problem worldwide and it can affect any computer platform and browser. So please act responsibly and defensively. If you do, you will be fine.

"Hackers clean out 3000 bank accounts in UK

AGENCIES, Aug 12, 2010, 02.15am IST

The scam was carried out by using a computer virus — described by experts as the most dangerous malware programme ever created — that emptied the bank accounts while showing customers fake statements, the Daily Mail reported. Internet security firm M86 Security, which discovered the scam, said the hackers stole a total of £675,000 from the unnamed British bank.

"We've never seen such a sophisticated and dangerous threat. Always check your balance and have a good idea of what it is," the security firm said. The latest virus is a variant of the Zeus trojan banking virus which first emerged 3 years ago and is called Zeus v3.

Researchers at M86 Security said the virus attacked the systems when victims were browsing the net. It swiped the online banking ID of the customers and hijacked their online banking accounts.

The malware was designed to attack only those accounts which had substantial balance, it said.

Bank sites that offer two-factor authentication, such as one-time passcodes and ID tokens, are ineffective because the malware has taken over the browser after the victim has logged into the banking site, Bradley Anstis, vice president of technology strategy at M86 Security, told CNET.

Meanwhile, British high street banks do not believe they have become victims of the cyber criminals. A spokesman for HSBC said, "There are millions of viruses and other malicious software. We urge people to take basic measure to protect themselves from virus attacks. Any customer who is a victim of fraud will be reimbursed by HSBC."

However, M86 said it believed one high street bank was breached and failed to act quickly after warnings last month. More than 100,000 PCs in Britain have been infected with other forms of the trojan virus. According to Financial Fraud Action UK, about £59.7 million was lost to online banking fraud last year. Another £440 million was lost to credit card fraud. "

The mini branches in the shopping malls (TESCO LOTUS, CARREFOUR) will be open. But the head offices and the main branches are not.

Good luck.

We have a full branch there. There is a counter at the front which consumers can access if you take the lift up to our floor. But you are correct that the main focus of the branch is Wholesale, not Consumer, but some Consumer products are offered. Please note that our accounts are no FDIC insured in the USA.

To all members who read this thread, I am not planning on adding any more on what happened now that much of the misinformation provided in the media has been addressed. If you have any questions or comments you want me to respond to, please send me a PM and I will get a notification. I will then respond to all (on topic) posts. Thank you.

Please see these 2 links for staying safe online from our website

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Online%20Banking/For%20Personal/iBanking/Pages/Default.aspx

http://www.bangkokbank.com/online%20banking/for%20personal/ibanking/security/pages/securitytips.aspx

I apologise for the delay. I had a dinner I needed to attend. Now back to this.

Yes, Kaspersky is among the products we list on BangkokBank.Com and is a perfectly reputable product. It scores well on detection of most types of malware. Please ensure you configure it properly, make it a defensive measure and put up with any additional resource consumption. But Kaspersky is normally one of the fastest products which is one of the major strengths. Please set it to auto update and to check regularly.

Good luck and stay safe online.

Again, thank you to the moderator for bringing us back on topic and back to planet earth:D

If any of the ThaiVisa community are running unlicensed versions of operating systems, I strongly encourage you to turn off your computers, go to the nearest authorized resellers and purchase a licensed copy. Please install it, update it with the latest software updates and configure it properly. Be defensive.

Please also make sure your AntiVirus software is licensed (even if it is a free copy it needs a license) and is updated automatically. Please configure it defensively. Please then run a full scan of your computer and makes sure you do not have any viruses, trojans or other malicious code.

And please do what you can to keep your computers clean and to make sure they stay that way. Thank you. Please do not download files from sites you cannot trust (certain torrent sites etc.) and please do not use pirate versions of software. It comes with hidden "extras" often which is one of the ways pirates make money. Don't support them! It is illegal, immoral and it is one of the ways you get Trojans!

if you have any questions or comments please feel free to post or to PM me. I will check again later tonight.

Good luck.

Ian

Agreed. Thanks

Thanks for the post. Yes, you are correct, iBanking would not be vulnerable to a network scan. All traffic is encrypted from the browser to the server using 128-bit SSL. So the network is safe (if you own the network at home). The problem is if a Trojan is on the computer (desktop) or if the network has a man in the middle setup to pretend to be our site. Which is why you should never do banking for any bank from a network you do not trust, regardless of tokens, certificates and OTP. The only way to do this is what is called 2-way SSL which requires certificates on both sides, and that even has vulnerabilities in some cases. Finally, as I said, this problem with Trojans is not password harvesting. It is classic man in the middle. I will not get into how we know this, but we do. There is no doubt it came from the computers of actual bank customers, no somewhere else who has captured the passwords. And as I said, password harvesting is very easily prevented with 2-way firewalls which are standard in modern computers.