tonbridgebrit

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

Which Taiwan people? The ones that agree with white western position?

 

Original island people were subject to genocide by various invaders. Let us not forget that original people were Polynesian related. Dutch came and colonized, and then Chinese invaded and took, then Japanese steal away and then the corrupt Chiang Kia Shek retreated to the island after communist won control of mainland China. Yes, possession now makes a big difference, but mainland China has as much right to control Formosa island as does Taiwan.

 

It is no paradise in Taiwan with long history of military oppression and dictatorship and very bad corruption. Military dictatorship until 30 years ago. For a long time, Taiwan pollution as bad as mainland. It was a country which supplied arms and dealt with brutal dictators around the world for its profit. Please do not glorify the country as some sort of virtuous saint. It is not. Yes it is much better now and every decade makes new progress, but remember that only a short 10 years ago, political opposition was harassed and  physically assaulted. Today, democracy is still not strong - do not  make this country as a champion of freedom because it is not.

 

Interesting post, I agree with some of what you've written, but not all.

You're right, the indigenous people of Taiwan are not Chinese, they're Polynesians.  The vast majority of people in Taiwan today are Chinese, and these Chinese are from, or descended from, two seperate waves that turned up in Taiwan. The first lot went to Taiwan a few hundred years ago, and yes, they stole land and carried out genocide of the indigenous people. And yes, the second wave was made up of Chinese who lost the civil war in China, and fled to Taiwan after World War Two.
You mentioned Chiang Kai-Shek. You're right, he was recognized by America and Britain as the leader of China, and fled to Taiwan after losing the civil war. And yes, he was a dictator of China and Taiwan. There was no freedom of speech for anti-government activists.  Yes, Taiwan was a military dictatorship prior to todays democracy.

Let's look at the other countries who are in the area. It's funny.
South Korea ? They might send ships to patrol the area ?  South Korea are more interested in making sure North Korea don't invade them, they don't want to take part in a fight against China.  Japan ?  They lost World War Two against Britain, America and China. They're not interested in a war.   Vietnam ?  Any war against China needs America's support. So American forces will fight alongside Vietnamese ? It's unlikely. America sent soldiers to fight that Vietnam War against Vietnam. The Viet Cong were the enemy, they took over Vietnam after the Vietnam War. So, today, the communist dictatorship we see in Vietnam fought against the USA. The US government does not actually have a great desire to fight alongside the Vietnamese.
Philipinnes ?  They are a democracy, Duterte is their leader, Duterte is actually far more friendly towards China than America. What about Thailand ? Thailand is waiting for Covid to dissappear, and then welcome back a flood of Chinese tourists. What about India ?  India's more interested in fighting Pakistan over Kashmir. And, on a map, India is bit further away from the South China Sea.  And also, China has created that RCEP.  A new trade zone involving Far East countries. India was invited, but India said no. So, India is the odd one out.

I'm trying to say, that most or all of the countries in the area, are not in a serious position to fight China.

1 minute ago, Salerno said:

 

No, have even pointed out the fact they where ramped up under Trump. What has that got to do with a large multinational fleet having a protracted leisurely sail around the South China Sea now to send a clear message to your boss?

So, we agree that the US navy has been carrying out freedom of navigational missions around the South China Sea. Good. So you're suggesting that countries like Britain, France, Australia, etc should also sail their ships alongside the American ships ?  What about ships from Russia, Iran, Venezuela, etc ?

There's no way Britain will waste tax-payers money by sending warships to the other side of the world, to take part in a 'protracted leisurely sail around the South China Sea'.  It will be cheaper to have British warships sailing along the English Channel, just to satify the racists in Britain who are against them immigrants crossing over from France.

On 1/29/2021 at 8:45 PM, Salerno said:

 

You wrote about "a multinational fleet to do a prolonged freedom of navigation mission in the South China Sea."
I'm only trying to say that, the US navy has been carrying out freedom of navigation missions in the South China Sea for years now. Are you disputing this ?

13 hours ago, WineOh said:

 

One can only hope that this one day comes to pass.

 

Let's set the record straight now.. Is Taiwan officially a part of China or not?

If not then surely any attempt to capture it by the Chinese is an act of war in and of itself, and the international community is obliged to take Taiwan's side in any potential conflict that may ensue? ????

You should look at history.  China and Taiwan were in the same country prior to the 1890s. Japan took Taiwan in the 1890s.
Prior to 1945, China's name was Republic of China. Between 1945 and 1949, China and Taiwan were both in Republic of China. After 1949, China became Peoples' Republic of China. Taiwan carried on being Republic of China.

There can only be one China, there will never be two Chinas. USA recognizes that. USA recognised Taiwan as China prior to the 1970s. USA recognised China as China after the early 70s. And indeed, the United Nations don't recognize Taiwan as a country, hence Taiwan hasn't got a seat at the UN.

14 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

Perhaps time for a multinational fleet to do a prolonged freedom of navigation mission in the South China Sea.

 

What are you talking about ?  The US fleet is already carrying out freedom of navigation missions in the South China Sea. Every ship carrying cargo has got freedom of navigation in the South China Sea.

52 minutes ago, placnx said:

NATO seems to be involved in Afghanistan. Taiwan is of much greater strategic value to the North Atlantic alliance.

So NATO is getting involved ?  Not because a load of Chinese in Republic of China (Taiwan) want independence. It's because the island of Taiwan is of 'strategic value' ?

13 hours ago, PatOngo said:

You've been bleating the same bull for 79 years, since 1949, you know you'll get your butt kicked if you try!

 

And if Mao had of invaded Taiwan in 1948, the whole world would of had no reason to intervene. It would have been part of China's civil war.

Yeah, Mao made a mistake. He should have invaded Taiwan prior to declaring China's new name as Peoples' Republic of China, in 1949.

That would have prevented any nonsense talk about NATO fighting World War Three to defend them Chinese in Taiwan.

12 hours ago, rabas said:

I reckon most people understand the good and the bad of the CCP, especially mainland Chinese. I doubt many anywhere want the likes of the CCP leading mankind. You are not able to imagine a better government?

 

As for what they think, a long time scientist friend in Beijing says some believe it may have been CCP monkey business gone awry. They're know who got hit hardest and who got off easy.

Hello there.
Okay, you want to talk about 'monkey business gone awry' ?? Exactly what conspiracy theory are you trying to say ?

Okay, let's look at the official version of events.  The Covid bug started in Wuhan, China, and it spread. It spread from Wuhan to other parts of China, and it spread from Wuhan and other parts of China to places outside of China. The opinion being that the Beijing government was late in telling the world, and late in ordering a mass lockdown on Wuhan and other parts of China. They could have ordered a mass lockdown onto Wuhan earlier, but they didn't. The bug was allowed to spread in China and outside of China.

The bug is now all over the world. Why is the bug almost non-existent in Wuhan and the rest of China ?   How comes the bug is still very much in America and Europe. Why is that ? What strategy has Beijing done, to cause a situation where Covid is almost non-existent in China ?  What do you believe ?

Is it because the Beijing government has carried out thorough lockdowns across China, and this has removed the Covid bug ? I think this is the case. And the reason why the bug still exists in Europe, Britain and America is because, because, because the lockdowns have not been done, or lockdowns are not thorough enough. Or maybe because people simply don't follow the lockdown rules and go to the beach ?


What conspiracy theory are we talking about ? Was the bug allowed to leave Wuhan and spread in China in a SMALL way, and at the same time, it was released outside of China (released into Italy, America, Brazil, Britain ) in a secret and MASSIVE way ?  Was the bug released into Europe in a massive way back in March ?  And Europe is still suffering from the massive release ? And it was released in a small way in China in the months prior to March, that's why it was much easier for China to clear the bug ?  Do people believe this ?

Whatever it is that people believe, well, we've got to try and explain why the bug is almost non-existent in China, but is still very much present in America, Britain and Europe. What's your view regarding an explanation for this ?
Thanks.

On 12/18/2020 at 7:12 PM, car720 said:

not really.  Even the Chinese will tell you that the CCP are evil. That is what this is all about.  An evil regime, not an evil race of people, though after countless years of living in fear, most Chinese are reluctant to leave themselves open to anything.

Them Chinese who are in Taiwan and Hong Kong, some of them reckon that the CCP are evil. But how many of them Chinese in mainland China reckon that the CCP is evil ?

Are the Chinese in China aware that the bug is still killing loads of people in America and Europe ?  Are the Chinese in China thankfull that their country has gone back to being normal ? Do they believe that their country has gone back to being normal because of the response done by their government ?  I think the answer to all three questions is, is yes.

On 12/19/2020 at 3:18 AM, Kinnock said:

 

And the conclusion we be that it was brought in to China by a foeigner, and the Chinese Government will be congratulated for their swift actions ...... again.

Okay, about the bit saying that the bug was taken into China by a foreigner, we know that didn't happen.

But congratulating the Chinese government for their swift action in removing the bug ?  I think we should do that, and try to see how they managed to do it.  The bug is still killing loads of people in America, Britain and Europe. Why is that ?  Why has the bug disappeared in China ? How is it that life has gone back to being normal in China ? Let's try to copy what the Chinese government has done. Let's try and learn from them. It might reduce the number of deaths in Britain.

On 12/19/2020 at 2:55 AM, Enzian said:

This has to be one of the best jokes of the year. Only a year-plus short. 

Next the Chinese will tell the Australians See, we did what you asked for, give us your commodities for discount.

Well, what do you suggest Australia should do ?  Do you think Australia will be stupid enough to say "look, China, you started this virus, we don't want to sell our coal and iron ore to you".

8 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

Well, Mr Birmingham might be in for a big surprise with his hope, that "a trade deal signed yesterday would improve Australia's strained relations with China".

Hope and China in the same sentence does not work, Excellency, but as the saying goes "Hope will die last". Meanwhile get ready to discover new markets for your wines as the Chinese said "Njet" to that part of the trade agreement just the other day. 

Making absurd comments that imply criticising China's handling of the CoronaVirus is causing Beijing to partially block Australian wine entering China. Is it surprising that Beijing is angry when the Australian government makes negative comments about China ? Off-course not.

China can increase their imports of coal and iron ore from places like Indonesia and Brazil, if they did this, then Australia will feel the pain. Australian exports of wine are not a big deal compared to the exports of coal and iron ore. And throw in them Chinese tourists, and Chinese buying real estate in Australia. It generates huge revenue for Australia. Got to hope them Chinese will return to Australia once the CoronaVirus thing is over.

21 hours ago, mfd101 said:

I think the Vietnamese and Taiwanese might have a different view of their giant neighbour.

So you reckon Vietnam and Taiwan don't like China ?

The Vietnamese had the choice to NOT be in this massive free trade zone, but they chose to jump in.  What about Taiwan ?  Taiwan is a democracy, with a democratically elected government. Taiwan has the freedom to build a wall between itself and China. The freedom to stop goods and tourists from mainland China entering Taiwan. But Taiwan would never be stupid enough to do this. Them Chinese in Taiwan want economic growth just as much as them Chinese in mainland China want economic growth.

Is the Beijing government cruel ?  Look, if Beijing  actually wanted to hurt Vietnam and Taiwan, they could easily do to Vietnam and Taiwan what America has been doing (or was doing)  to Cuba and Iran, for decades. Beijing can very easily destroy Vietnam and Taiwan's economy by simply reducing trade and reducing the number of tourists going to those places. As in carry out a trade embargo.

26 minutes ago, car720 said:

Probably but we are a proud country with a proud history and I don't like having leaders that are so sycophantic.  They have the nuts to stand up to the Chinese so why not the yanks?

So you reckon Australia should stand up to America as well as China ???   Yes, a reasonable comment to make.

On 11/11/2020 at 5:56 AM, car720 said:

true....the Australian government, no matter which one or when, is back to kissing the American butt.

Yes. But kissing America's butt with Biden in charge is far better than kissing it with Trump in charge. Do you feel this way ?  I certainly do.

9 hours ago, Damual Travesty said:

I will stop at the first line. I am a retired Navy CPO. I would be proud to have children in the navy. Unfortunately mine is prevented from joining.  You brought up family, you brought up honor. You a have been alowed unfortunately to make such a post. I don't know you. That is a good thing.

So you would be proud to have your children in the navy, but they are prevented from joining ?  Look, if people join the navy and America fights a war against China, then, all lives lost are a waste.

You're lucky that your children are prevented from joining.

Okay, from the OP "Kurt Tong, the former U.S. consul general in Hong Kong, said it was difficult to craft responses that did not hurt Hong Kong or the United States more than they hurt China. "

This comment is hilarious. So, the strategy is to do something that will hurt China more than it hurts Hong Kong or the USA.

And indeed, there's almost nothing that can achieve this goal.
What is the main reason for Hong Kong being a prosperous place ? Okay, companies in Hong Kong buy/import goods that are made in mainland China. The goods are then re-exported/re-routed to America,Europe and the rest of the world. This generates a profit for the Hong Kong company involved. Hong Kong companies also import goods from America and the rest of the world, and then they re-export/re-route the goods into mainland China. This also generates a profit.

So, being a trading post for mainland China. And this was happening prior to 1997, and happens today. This is the rock on which Hong Kong's economy is built on. And now what ? Is America going to slap serious taxes and quotas on goods moving from Hong Kong to America ? Is the US government going to restrict US goods leaving America for Hong Kong ?  It's absurd to carry out these ideas.


What next ?  How about the US government will restrict the American exports of soy beans and other food products to  China ?  Yeah, go and hit American farmers ?  How about the US government gives a lecture to the Australians ? Tell Australia to massively reduce it's exports of coal and iron ore to China ? How about telling Thailand to reduce the number of Chinese tourists entering Thailand ? The last option is even more absurd than the other two options.

9 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

Right on target.  The haters don’t realize they play right into CCP’s hands.  And instead of holding CCP to task on HK, on Mekong depletion, on South China Sea and Spratly Islands, and the Belt & Road financial trap—it always degenerates to their despise of the current administration.  Look at the big picture, folks.

You're raising the issue of the Spratly Islands. Well, the case of the Paracel Islands is the same.

Now, you guys do realise what's actually happening ? Okay, it's this. China claims ownership of the islands, and Vietnam also claims ownership, and Philipinnes also claims some of the islands.

Now, the important thing is, where does Washington (as in, the US government) stand on this ?  Washington is staying neutral on this. As in, the US government is NOT saying "we're supporting Vietnam's claim on the islands" .  And the US government is also NOT saying "we back China's claim, on ownership of the islands" .
Why is the USA staying neutral with regards to who owns the islands ? It's because, America knows that China's claims are just as reasonable as Vietnam's claims. And that's bearing in mind that islands like the Falklands and Diego Garcia are owned by nations that are very far away from the islands.

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

You're "outraged". Alright. Now, about that recent Chinese move regarding HK...?

Okay, about China's move regarding Hong Kong.
 

Let's look at the overall picture.  Last year, for months and months, Hong Kong was brought to a standstill by the demonsrtrations, and a load of people threw petrol bombs and bricks at the Hong Kong police. Anybody can actually criticise Beijing for allowing the riots to continue over such a long period. As in, Beijing should have clamped down on the violence in a bigger way, and sooner.

Notice the hypocrisy of some of the anti-China brigade.  As in, in the USA, BLM do mass protests, and when bricks and petrol bombs are thrown, well, people demand serious action from the US government. But in Hong Kong, rioters throw bricks and petrol bombs, and when riot police arrest a few of them, well, that's called 'police brutality' .  How many bricks and petrol bombs have been thrown in America ?  How many bricks and petrol bombs did Hong Kong police have thrown at them ? A lot more than in the USA.

So, Beijing clamping down on the rioters/demonstraters is not actually surprising. By the way, the Hong Kong riots have been  far less energetic in 2020, compared to 2019. Why is that ? Well, yes, the Covid bug has caused a lot of Hong Kong people to not take part. But there is speculation regarding another reason. The Hong Kong guys you see wearing metal helmets, and throwing bricks and petrol bombs, they're (supposedly) mainly a bunch of 'paid for' rioters. And basically, their wages have not been paid in the last few months. That's why they've mainly stopped their rioting.

Let's look at the overall picture. Hong Kong's economy is basically dependent on mainland China. Surely, we all know this ?  As in, goods are made in China, Hong Kong companies import/buy those goods and then re-export/re-route the goods to America and the rest of the world. Hong Kong also imports goods from the rest of the world, and re-exports/re-routes the goods to mainland China. It's best for Hong Kong that they simply stop these riots and demonstrations. And that's bearing in mind that the riots where mainly done by the 'paid for' rioters.