tonbridgebrit

Okay, the above Youtube video is from the South China Morning Post. This is one of Hong Kong's biggest newspapers, and bear in mind that Hong Kong still has freedom of speech and media. After all, all foreign media outlets (the BBC, CNN, etc) are still allowed to report freely in Hong Kong.

In the above news footage, you can see demonstrators/rioters vandalising an MTR station. MTR is Hong Kong's underground. You can also see people setting up a fire at the entrance of an MTR station.


Now, what does this mean ? When a group of demonstraters/rioters turn up outside an army barracks in Hong Kong, IF they do start a fire outside the main entrance of the army barracks, well surely, people feel that it's only normal if the soldiers are tempted to start firing bullets at the those who are starting the fire ? The 'arsonists' ??

57 minutes ago, Opl said:

"'The consequences of being identified can be severe. In Hong Kong, demonstrators charged with rioting face up to 10 years in prison (among their five demands is a halt to characterizing the protests as “riots”). In mainland China, displeasing the government can land one in even more trouble. The Chinese Communist Party is busy exporting its surveillance capabilities to like-minded regimes, while also promoting its authoritarian system as a political model for other nations to follow. '

such efforts are still in their early days. Beijing is just getting started

 

'The country's 1.4 billion population are set to be carefully watched by 626 million CCTV monitors - many having facial-recognition functions - as early as next year, a recent study revealed. '

that's one camera for every two people

 

So China might have the technology regarding surveillance capability. And the Chinese Communist Party is busy exporting the stuff ?

Okay, Britain does not have a like-minded regime. Britain is a democracy, with lots of freedom of speech and lots of freedom of religion. And plenty of sexual freedom, and the right to have as many children as you want.

But London does have a huge amount of knife crime, with young men stabbing each other to death. And drunken violence is always happening in the city centres every Friday night. Throw in the small number of Muslims who might detonate bombs. If China does have the technology for surveillance, then surely, it would be a good idea for Britain to import this technology ? Or if Britain has already got this technology, the surely, Britain should put up a vast number of surveillance cameras ?

I mean, it would make all of us feel more safe, right ?

Okay, from the OP, we have the following.

"The student, Tony Tsang, was shot at close range as he fought an officer with what appeared to be a white pole. He has been charged with rioting, which carries a maximum 10-year sentence, and assaulting an officer. Tsang is in stable condition in hospital.

The shooting enraged protesters who rampaged across the city, throwing petrol bombs, blocking roads and starting fires as police responded with tear gas."


Now, please look at the video from the New York Times, below.

From the above video, it is clear that a group of demonstraters/rioters were attacking the riot police. Basically, the rioter was shot, the riot police officer was acting in self defence. Notice the other riot police officer who was on the floor, being beaten by a few rioters.

And to think, the rioters are enraged by this shooting. They're throwing petrol bombs and starting fires. Let's get real,the rioters are wrong. The ones who are throwing petrol bombs and starting fires, they should be arrested and detained.

4 hours ago, Lemonltr said:

The article said that Maxey was getting 60 baht for his pounds 2 decades ago! . Around 15 years ago it was 75 baht to the pound. Today 37.5 exactly halved. Now, people must, and do, adjust or move but it's very harsh criticism  for not doing prior planning for such an unusually drastic change by the "holier than thou" 

It's not just a case of the pound buying less baht. Yes, half as much, or a one third drop for some people.

It's also a case of how prices in Thailand, in baht, have increased considerably during the last two decades. Barfine at Nana Plaza gogo bars were 500 baht back in 2002, it must be a lot more nowadays. And it was 100 baht per person at them down-market barbeque buffet places in Bangkok, must be about 200 baht nowadays. So, the amount of baht you get for your pound has dropped considerably, and baht prices have moved up considerably. You don't feel so rich nowadays.

Okay, you get a man who has money in the bank and so,  number 6 is not a problem.

But he doesn't have a job, and has no pension. Is it going to be a problem if he leaves out number 8 and 9 ??

3 hours ago, Chazar said:

China -1  democracy -0

Have you seen the video on the post, on the post that was put up just before your post ?

I think you should accept that the rioters are harming the peaceful protests in Hong Kong. There are probably only a few thousand people who are the rioters. The people who are taking part in the peaceful marches might number hundreds of thousands.

So, yes, the democracy movement in Hong Kong should actually remove the rioters first (remove all those who are throwing Molotov cocktails, bricks, etc) and then, and then concentrate on non-violant marches.

How about,  Riot police -1   Rioters -0

And here's more footage. This is from the New York Times. Surely, the New York Times is not going to give a slanted or biased opinion against the demonstrators and rioters ??

Please watch the above video. Yes, the rioters attacked the riot police, and you can't really condemn the police officer who fired the shot. And notice how most of the comments put up below this Youtube video are supporting the riot police officer who fired the shot.

20 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Why don't people talk about the police office who was nearly beaten to death by the mob a few minutes before ?

 

Sad that a chap was shot, but it's like the journalists who go into lawless war zones, get shot and then society makes them into martyrs...

 

You know what to expect if you enter such a mess, so no point in pointing a finger at anybody, should it be the police or the protesters.

 

it is more then obvious that those HK protestors are instrumentalised by groups of interest either from abroad of within the region.

Thanks for putting this up. I really mean it.

And, about the film footage that we see. If you go to Youtube, you will notice that the Guardian, Telegraph, the Sun, have also put up the same footage. 

But, but with a difference. Once the shot has been fired, the filming camera, as it zooms out, the footage (footage from the Guardian, Telegraph, Sun) is stopped, it means that you can't see the bit with the riot police officer on the floor being beaten.

I think the Guardian is a great newspaper. But on this occasion, even the Guardian has slanted or biased the picture.

And this is the same footage from Aljazeera. To save you time, you can go straight to 51 0r 52 seconds.

Please have a look. It clearly shows a riot officer on the floor, being attacked. You will see, straight after the shot has been fired, the camera zooms out, and you can see from the footage the rioters moving away from the riot officer on the floor. Obviously, the rioters were beating the man on the floor, before the shot was fired.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-49891403

Click on the above link from the BBC, you can see for yourself. Footage of what happened.

Now, if you are a police officer. One of your fellow police officers is on the floor, being attacked by a few people. You've got a gun, what are you going to do ? Surely, the very minimum you will do is bring the gun out.

You will also notice from the BBC footage, one of the rioters was advancing onto the police officer with the gun, the rioter has a metal stick, or whatever stick.

8 hours ago, animalmagic said:

From the HK local news feeds.  From other videos the petrol bomb was thrown later and by someone else.

Thank you for putting up this video. The same video is on the BBC website, but the BBC video has much longer footage.

Okay, watch the above video footage. The bit before the police officer fires the bullet, you will notice a few demonstrators/rioters beating a person. That person is on the floor, and you can just about see, the person is a police officer in riot gear. So, this was a fight, a few demonstrators/rioters are attacking a police officer, the police officer is on the floor, and a rioter moves towards the officer who fired the shot.

The rioters were beating the officer on the floor, before the officer with the gun fired.

5 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10039105/china-set-to-unveil-dongfeng-41-nuke-that-can-strike-us-in-30-minutes-at-70th-anniverary-parade/

 

CHINA has unveiled its “ultimate doomsday weapon” during one of the nation’s biggest military parades.

The terrifying super-nuke took centre stage at a huge arms showcase held in Tiananmen Square, Beijing, to mark 70 years of Communist rule.

We have to bear in mind that America has got far more nukes than China, and America's military hardware is far more advanced than China's.

And we've also got to bear in mind that Russia has a far more powerful military than China. Washington regards Russia as the real enemy, not China. The Cold War, it was all about America against Communist Russia. It was not about being against China. Russia is no longer Communist, the Cold War has simply been replaced with a new Cold War against Russia.

If I was in America, I'd be more worried about nukes from Russia rather than nukes from China. The cocern about China ? Well, there might be a big drop in the amount of Chinese goods in America's shops, due to a trade war between America and China. That's the concern, not Chinese nukes.

6 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

i just read troops have opened fire on protesters. this is breaking news

 

https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1178992105127055361

5 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

https://summit.news/2019/10/01/video-riot-cop-shoots-hong-kong-protester-in-chest-with-live-round/

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3031044/chaos-expected-across-hong-kong-anti-government-protesters

Can you please not put up posts about troops opening fire on protesters. It simply did not happen, but people who put up such posts cause panic. Beijing is not going to take the bait, they're not going to order a shooting that will kill dozens of people.

And yes, one protester/rioter has been injured. Shot in the chest. There's been lots of injuries so far, this is just one of many. Why attempt to sensationalise such news ?

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Why not?

Okay, let's be consistent with our advice to the people of Hong Kong.

We can tell them, to not turn up for any public meetings at all.
Or, we tell them to regard today as normal, and turn up for all meetings and events.

4 minutes ago, tifino said:

the best thing would be for all resident HongKongodonians... is to stay home on the day!

 

... absolutely NO ONE turn up at the psuedo red square parade of Hong Kong

 

For everyone to turn their backs on the mainlanders... is a snub much safer than confrontation

Them people in Hong Kong, yes, stay at home today, the 70th annivesary of the founding of the Peoples' Republic of China.

And also, stay at home, do not turn up for the riots and demonstrations against this 70th birthday.

10 hours ago, Thailand said:

Tend to think there is an awful lot of orchestration of the riots from the mainland to make it worse so they can try to claim the high ground.

However, at the end of the the day the protestors are on a loser, Hong Kong belongs to China and that is not going to change and the U.K.!US etc are not coming to the rescue.

Taiwan on the other hand is another one altogether and the US will be providing support for their upcoming conflict with the mainland once HK has been suppressed.

The riots in Hong Kong are partly orchestrated from the mainland ????

So the rioters you see throwing Molotov cocktails and bricks might be supported by Beijing, Beijing has infiltrated the riots, to make the rioters look bad ? Well, if that is the case, why can't the rioters/demonstraters look at all those who are throwing petrol bombs and bricks, and attack them ???


What about Taiwan ? You really think Washington will declare World War Three on China because some Chinese in Taiwan want to declare independence ? That's not true. If America does have a war against China, it's not because of Taiwan or Tibet, or Hong Kong. It's because Washington wants to clear the trade deficit and debt with China, that's why their might be a war between America and China.
And don't forget about history. Britain fought two wars against China back in the 1800s, the Opium Wars. It was all about exporting goods/opium to China. It's all about trade.

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah. I'm avoiding Chinese restaurants today. Unbridled nationalism puts me off my food. 

Do you really think that people avoiding Chinese restaurants and take-aways in America and Europe is going to hurt the Beijing regime ? Off-course it will not.

You've got to bear in mind that them Chinese you see in California. Most of them are actually born in California, harming them people is not going to hurt the Beijing  government. And them Chinese you see in Orange County, they're actually a bunch of Vietnamese born in Orange County. It's their parents and/or their grandparents who were born in Vietnam. Why go and boycott their Chinese take-away food shops ? It's absurd.

And here we see some delicious Wonton noodles. I've been to Hong Kong, Hong Kong is a gastronomical delight. And yes, in my opinion, Wonton noodles are better in Hong Kong than in London or Manchester.

A bowl of Wonton noodles and a beer, it's a great meal.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-18/hong-kong-hotel-workers-go-on-unpaid-leave-as-tourists-shun-city?fbclid=IwAR2d5Vu7oAURLOrHODm5EeQMGYlzS6befhulFRQb1WdqraCDLOkxI8CQxPw

Okay, the media are no longer putting Hong Kong onto the front-page, Hong Kong is no longer headline news. That's because the media have noticed that people in Britain and America are tired and bored of looking at news about the Hong Kong protests. But the protests are still there, and some people are paying the penalty for these riots/demonstrations.


Hong Kong's tourism industry has been hit hard. From the above article from Bloomberg, "Protests in Hong Kong are driving away visitors, and the city’s hotel workers are paying the price. About 77% of people working in hotels have been asked to take unpaid leave of up to three days while 46% expect their monthly income to be reduced".

Yes, Hong Kong's hotel workers are one of the groups of people who are suffering from all this. People who are not in Hong Kong simply don't see the economic damage being done to Hong Kong.

And also from the article "Tourists from mainland China are especially wary that they could be targeted by protesters."  What the rioters should do, is make it clear that they are only against the Beijing government, they're not against the mainland Chinese tourists. Basically, everybody in Hong Kong still wants to see Hong Kong function as normal. Nobody actually wants to see tourists cancelling their holidays and trips to Hong Kong. The demonstraters themselves accept that yes, the demonstrations will take place, but they certainly do not want the demonstrations to disrupt normal life. Nobody wants to see a reduction in the number of tourists in Hong Kong.


So, if you're thinking about going to Hong Kong for a holiday or visit, go ahead, do it, do not cancel or postpone your trip. Hong Kong wants your tourism revenue.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-hongkong-protests/hong-kong-horse-races-fireworks-abandoned-amid-protest-threat-idUKKBN1W30SL?il=0

Things are going from bad to worse. Hong Kong might collapse.
From the above article from Reuters "Hong Kong’s Jockey Club cancelled all races planned for Wednesday after pro-democracy protesters said they would target the Happy Valley racecourse where a horse part-owned by a pro-China lawmaker was due to run."

People might think that this is funny, but it isn't. Horse-racing in Hong Kong is massive, vast numbers of people bet lots of money on horses. The total money taken from the bets is vast. How big is horse-racing in Hong Kong ? Well, consider Premier League Football (as in, soccer) in England. How serious is it, if Premier League football matches are scrapped because of safety concerns ? I mean, civil unrest in England would have to be pretty serious for Premier League football matches to be cancelled.

Okay, a solution to the problem. The demonstraters are going to riot at the race-course because one of the horses is part-owned by a pro-China lawmaker. How about this ? All horses that run must be neutral towards this civil unrest ?  It's not an ideal solution, but the horses must be allowed to race, no matter what anybody says.

By the way, are the horses from main-land China ? Are the horses born and raised in Hong Kong ? The parents of the horses, are they born and raised in Hong Kong ? Are the horses imported from Ireland ? And the jockeys, where are they from ?

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

I suspect PRC provocateurs among the protesters.

 

 

What, the men we see who are preparing petrol bombs, and they're tearing roads up to get bricks and stones, they want to throw stuff at the police. These men are PRC provocateurs among the protesters ?
Surely not ?

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The difference is that you are gloating. You're perfectly alright with seeing more people being brought under China's tight rule. The sad fact is that no one is unlikely to effectively intervene on HK's people behalf. That's an observation, which you choose to celebrate.

 

Considering the number of posts you've made calling "the world" to do this or that, the above position is peculiar. Or were your previous posts deceptive?

 

Yes. No protestors died so far (as far as I'm aware). Now if they tried the same thing while fully under China's control, how would that work out? You can't (well, you obviously try) have the cake and eat it too - decide which argument you're making.

 

"Now if they tried the same thing while fully under China's control, how would that work out ?"  .

Okay, if these demonstrations/riots were taking place in China, the Chinese government would not allow it to happen. It would not be tolerated, as soon as it happens, riot police would move in and clear/arrest as many of them as possible.

So, that's China. What about Hong Kong ? These demonstrations have disrupted traffic in Hong Kong, and they've caused a big reduction in the number of tourists entering Hong Kong. When are the rioters going to stop ?

Why has Beijing tolerated this ?
Because if Beijing did carry out a crackdown, if Beijing gives orders for mass arrests, detain people, have some of them transported to China if there isn't enough space in detention centres in Hong Kong, if Beijing does this, it will end the riots, but it will make Beijing 'look bad' on the world's media. That's why Beijing has not ordered a mass crackdown.

So, we are seeing a situation where the riots will continue. Beijing is not going to take the bait, Beijing is not going to make the mistake of ending the riots very quickly in a forceful way. The riots will continue. Tourists will continue to avoid Hong Kong, foreign companies might pull out of Hong Kong because their operations are being disrupted by the riots. A lot of foreign companies have a major office in Hong Kong, but they still make a lot of revenue from China. They might simply close their Hong Kong office down, and relocate the office to, to, to China itself. Remember, the reason for closing down their Hong Kong office is not because China won't grant democracy to Hong Kong, it's because the riots are disrupting their operations.


And all this, the riots, they will continue, because Beijing won't crack-down hard, because we all know that the international media will make Beijing look bad if a strong crack-down takes place.
I'm only trying to say, allowing these riots to continue, it's harming Hong Kong.

On 9/15/2019 at 6:39 PM, Scot123 said:

Some really stupid remarks on here and some racist remarks (yes that card works both ways). First as someone who actually served there with the British Army let's just get one thing straight "Hong Kong residents rioted in the streets because they did not want British rule" plus comparing Hong Kong to the Falklands is just unbelievably stupid. Hong Kong wasn't invaded by a foreign power and our armed forces were not engaged in battle same as the Falklands. The islanders never wanted to leave the yoke of GB in fact they are very proud to be British again I was down there on op corporate. Britain is not in a state, Britain is still one of the biggest economies in the world and the 4th most powerful military. The way people talk about us as if we are some tin pot wonabee and the sad thing is a lot of these derogatory comments come from Brits. Nobody forces you to carry a British Passport just hand it back to the embassy in Bangkok if you hate Britain so much (got that from the posters who say if you don't like it leave and your a guest...). 

We love our nation, and just because we are pointing out that we are in a bit of a mess over Brexit, well, that don't mean to say that we hate Britain. People are only trying to say that we should concentrate on sorting out our own house first. Britain is not a tin pot wanabee but it is declining, let's try and reverse that.

Can we use the word 'irony' when looking at this ? Britain is trying to leave Europe, and this attempt to leave Europe is not doing Britain any good. Britain is trying to avoid a disastrous exit out of Europe. And Hong Kong ? Those demonstrators want Hong Kong to leave China. Are those demonstrators trying to get Hong Kong to follow in the disastrous footsteps of leaving a massive trading neighbour ?

I didn't see the posts comparing the Falklands to Hong Kong. The people in the Falklands are mainly British people, their recent ancestors left Britain and went there. Them people in Hong Kong, they're not British. They're Chinese living in Hong Kong. They've got very little to do with Britain. Their connection with Britain is, is that they are living in a place that was previously a British Empire place.
It's like saying, people in Hong Kong, and people in India, their connection with Britain is the same. Are them people in India, are they British ? Surely not ? What's Britain's responsibilty towards India today ? Surely, very little ?