tonbridgebrit

29 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Pathetic.

Okay, let's allow "Salerno" to answer a few questions.
The demonstraters at the airport have apologised for disrupting flights for two days, and they have left the airport. Apologising for the disruptions, and leaving the airport, have the demonstraters done the correct thing ?
And, the demonstraters must control themselves, and NOT turn up at the airport next week. Disrupting flights next week means that, the demonstraters have shot themselves in the foot. Do we agree ?

Let's have answers to these questions.

6 hours ago, Morch said:

 

And yet, you have no issues expressing totally different views when commenting on action by other countries, in Asia and elsewhere. Also, considering free speech and political freedoms in China are what they are, asserting what "most people in China" think or feel about matters politic is a somewhat dubious affair.

I'm only trying to say this.
The people in Portugal, most of them don't feel bad about how Portugal turned up in South America, and grabbed/stole a big bit of land, and called it Brazil. The government in Portugal has not dished out a brain-washing programme, a brain-washing programme to convince the people that taking over land in South America was okay. The people of Potugal feel okay about taking over Brazil, it is how they feel.

In the same way, most people in China feel that Tibet, Hong Kong and Taiwan, it all belongs to China. It's how they feel, they haven't been brain-washed into thinking this.

Westerners in China know this. When talking to Chinese people in mainland China, people who are friends and fellow members of staff. There's no security cameras or recording equipment there. Them Chinese people in mainland China, a lot of them are "nationalistic, slightly xenophobic, and slightly racist". They're expressing their views, and they know when they was talking, they were not being spied on by the Chinese government.

If you want to criticise Chinese people for being "nationalistic, slightly xenophobic, slightly racist", well, go ahead. Just bear in mind that, that's how they feel, they have not been brain-washed. And a lot of people in Europe are also "slightly xenophobic, slightly racist".

34 minutes ago, Salerno said:

More like a PRC propaganda stooge.

You think that I am a PRC propaganda stooge ???
Do you think it will be a good idea if them kids turn up at the airport next week, and stay there for days and days, stopping flights entering and leaving Hong Kong ?

Them kids are trying to apologise for causing the airport to grind to a halt, for two days. Do you reckon that them kids are wrong to apologise ?

Do you reckon that them kids should actually say "we are happy that we displayed our ability to cause the airport to grind to a halt, we've shown that we can cause Hong Kong to grind to a halt, yes, we can do it, and we're certainly not saying that we are sorry, we are proud of ourselves, we're going to take over the airport again, next week". Is this your opinion ??   ????

4 hours ago, nahkit said:

I think I've said it enough times on here now, so, for the last time, I don't think any company has the right to tell their employees what they do with their own time outside of work, regardless of who is bullying them to do so.

Okay, consider this. A hotel in London, they've got their staff. This hotel caters mainly for foreign tourists. There's a member of staff, it's his day off from work. And he's taking part in a demonstration, that demonstration is supporting "let's ban or massively reduce the number of foreign tourists coming into Britain".  Surely, people staying at the hotel will think it is strange, that such a man is being allowed to work there ?

Or how about a man, who works in the immigration department. His job is to check applications, and decide who should be allowed in. It's his day off from work. And he's taking part in a demonstration, that demonstration is trying to say "say no to foreigners, we want to stop them coming into our country". Should that man, really, be allowed to carry on working as an employee at the immigration department ?

And now we see a man, his job is to control flights coming into and leaving the country. It's his day off. And he's part of a demonstration that is trying to say "stop all flights entering and leaving our place". Surely, on a matter of principle, and other reasons, they should have the right to sack or suspend him. Surely ?

On 8/15/2019 at 8:49 AM, gunderhill said:

you sound like a right drama queen

Okay, if them kids are going to be at the airport, bringing a stop to flights, and they do this every day, for two weeks, do you reckon this will be a very bad thing ? Bad for Hong Kong's economy ?
And if the kids actually say "we will be back next week, for two days, to bring a stop to all flights, but we're not telling you which two days we are going to be here", well, do you reckon that this also bad for Hong Kong ?

So, we all feel that stopping flights entering and leaving Hong Kong is bad, it doesn't do Hong Kong any good. And I call it, a nightmare scenario, and you feel I'm a drama queen. But you do reckon that taking over the airport was a mistake, by the demonstraters ?

Well, the demonstraters are no longer blocking flights. They're actually trying to say that, they are sorry for blocking flights for two days. I think we all should say "apologies accepted, just don't do this again next week".

Yes, the demonstraters  have seen sense.  Just because you have been given the freedom to disrupt something, well, you might be shooting yourself in the foot, if you actually go ahead and carry out the disruption. The problem is, some of the kids might be acting independently, some of them might be stupid enough to turn up next week, and disrupt flights all over again.

Hello Senior Player. Great to read this. I feel better now. Applying for a SETV should be easier than I thought, after reading this. Thanks.

Yes, Chinese criminals must be removed, and sent back to China.

Actually, I reckon it would be okay if Thailand was to tell China "look, these criminals are Chinese, they're from your country, they did their crimes in China, how about you send your staff to Thailand, and arrest these people, why should Thailand use it's own police force and resources to arrest criminals who did their crimes in China, so, China, you should come here to Thailand, and remove your own criminals".

A good idea, yes.

Okay, from all the above posts, things don't seem that bad.

So, for the Single Entry Tourist Visa, SETV, when applying on the website at the London Embassy, the follwing applies.
Flight ticket, no need to actually pay for it, you just need a quote from the airline, on a sheet of paper.
Accomodation, you only need proof for one or a few days hotel stay, at the beginning of your trip.
Bank statement, you need to show three months statement, with over five hundred pounds in the account.

Well, this all sounds much better. One other question will be, can it all be done on the internet, and by posting all the paperwork and passport to London, and hence, no need to physically turn up at the Thai Embassy at London, not even once ?   ????

I will look at the link provided by "Senior Player". Thanks, Senior Player.

Please let us know how this progresses. I'm getting paranoid !!

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

jesus, I was going to get a SETV from the USA to Thailand in December. 

I think, in the end, it will all be okay. Nobody is going to come up with a system that is so absurd and mad, where you're suppose to provide evidence for where you're staying for the whole fifty or sixty days holiday.

You're going in December. If such nonsense is recquired to get a visa right now, well, by December, they would have seen sense, and remove the madness.

Well, it really is absurd IF they want evidence of accomadation for the whole trip. I can't see how people are actually going to provide this. They're not, surely ??

Mr Trump, how about you go and talk to some of the people in America who are demonstrating against you.

No, Mr Trump, don't do it. I'm only joking. It won't do you any good.
????

5 minutes ago, Traubert said:

60m foreign tourists came to China in 2018. The internal tourist market is colossal too. There are now 72 hour layover visas at no cost in several cities.

 

Seems the Tsunami has started, Cathay and HSBC are the two landmark British businesses in HK. HSBC CEO already resigned, Cathay on the naughty step.

 

All China has to do is turn off the financial tap. They moved everything of note to Shanghai over the last 15 years.

Great to see that lots of people in America and Europe are visiting China. And they're doing it, even though some in the media are deliberately painting a negative picture of China.

Yes, the Great Wall of China, let's go and see it. Via Hong Kong, using Cathay Pacific !!   ????

8 minutes ago, Jack Mountain said:

Reading is not the real world ... start packing ... and find the truth ...

And indeed, "Westerners" who are in China, who know Chinese people in China, they will say that "most people in China do reckon that Tibet, Taiwan, Hong Kong, they are all part of China, China must never be broken into seperate bits".

People outside of China will feel that this is, because of the brain-washing that's been going on in China. But is it ? How many people reckon that it's totally okay for Britain to have the Falklands and Gibraltar ? How many Europeans reckon that the mass theft of land in Canada and Brazil was actually an okay thing to do ? Lets not pretend that people in Europe have been brain-washed. They haven't been. It's just how people feel.

47 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I always wanted to visit china when I was growing up and more as I read about the history, achievements, some of the monuments, etc.  Then when I entered the real world and read about their government it just turned me off. 

I think Beijing (the Chinese government) wants to earn foreign currency by exporting manufactured goods to America and Europe. They're not actually interested in earning foreign currency through tourism.

Now, Thailand is a different kettle of fish. Thailand wants to earn foreign currency via tourism. But even Thailand seems to be trying to drive away tourists who want to stay more than 30 days.  ????

25 minutes ago, nahkit said:

Yes it was their original stand and quite right too.

Do we all accept that China has the right to say  "All those who take part in protests against Beijing and China will no longer be welcome to enter mainland-China, and ALL companies that have policies that we don't like, we ban them from operating in mainland-China ?"

Surely, Beijing should have the freedom to say this, and carry it out ? I mean, if the US government has the freedom and right to ban any company selling stuff to America, if they have the freedom and right to stop any company operating in America, well, surely, China should have the same freedom and right to do this ?


Surely, Cathay Pacific would simply not survive as a company, if Beijing was to NOT allow it to operate in mainland China ?

Do they actually ask for proof of accomadation for the whole 60 days ? Surely, not ?

Will it work, if you show accomadation for a couple of days at the start of your 60 day holiday, and tell them that you plan to travel around Thailand for the rest of the 60 days, and that you haven't yet booked the accomadation ?

Looking at the link and website provided above.
So, for a SETV, Single Entry Tourist Visa, you've got to provide three things.  Travel booking confirmation (surely, this means flight in and out of Thailand) , and proof of accomadation, and financial evidence (copy of bank statement, or whatever) .

These three things were not needed previously, when applying for the SETV.
And what about backpackers turning up in Thailand, and they want to stay for about 55 days ? A lot of them, want to turn up in Bangkok, head to where the backpacker hostels are, and look for a bed. And if the hostel is full, well, simply walk about thirty metres, and see if there is room at that next hostel. That's what some backpackers want to do. They simply don't want to book and pay for a few days accomadation, print out the paper, and show this paper, as proof of their accomadation.

All this is simply making the whole thing a bit more tricky than previously. And about bank statements. So you're suppose to provide a copy of your bank statement ?  And your address, bank account number, and balance, full name, can all clearly be seen by the staff there ?

52 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

Wind it in pal, re  read it Im calling CHINA  vile  scumbags  for  putting pressure on Cathay Pacific

Well, whether it's Beijing telling Cathay Pacific to do this, or Cathay themselves are doing it, I still think it's a good idea for "staff who want to stop flights leaving and entering Hong Kong, they should be removed".

I just simply won't feel safe, knowing that I'm on an aeroplane, and some of the staff controlling the plane are supporting those who want to stop the plane.

Anyway, the kids at the airport are leaving, and flights are going back to being normal. Let's hope that them demonstrators don't head back to the airport on Thursday. The small number of demonstrators that are still there, are trying to say "sorry" to the tourists ?


Okay, the nightmare scenario is this. The bulk of the demonstrators are going to say "we will be back, next week, and stop all flights for a couple of days, BUT, we're not going to tell you which two days we are going to be at the airport".  That really will be a nightmare. I mean, if you are travelling through Hong Kong, next week, so, they're going to stop flights for two days, but we don't know which two days. That means we have to avoid Hong Kong for the whole of next week, because we don't know which two days will have no flights.

And if they do this, every week, for four weeks, then what ??  Disaster.

1 hour ago, keemapoot said:

There is some truth to what you say, but I doubt all those tanks and humvees were assembled in that stadium practicing for a monster truck demolition derby.

 

 

Okay, IF Beijing orders soldiers in Shenzen to cross the border, and those soldiers are going to remove the kids at the airport, then yes, I think Beijing is doing something that is absurd. Beijing will be harming itself.

But we agree, right, that Beijing can very easily give orders for the riot police who are already at the airport, give THEM orders to remove the kids.  And yes, there's a huge difference between "riot police who are already there, removing the demonstrators, AND, mainland Chinese soldiers removing the demonstrators".

Riot police removing the demonstrators will harm Beijing's image, but Chinese soldiers doing it, will be catastrophic for Beijing's image. We have to bear in mind, the whole thing is a PR war, a public relations war.


And indeed, the people who are the "real power" behind these demonstrations, they've put these kids into the airport. The kids are the bait, will Beijing take the bait ? Will Beijing use it's soldiers to do a massacre at the airport ? If Beijing does, then yes, it means Beijing has taken the bait. A massacre at the airport, or a violant removal of the demonstrators, the real power behind all this will have achieved their goal. They will be allowed to say to the media "look, Beijing is a monster, Beijing has done this huge crime".

But Beijing are not stupid. The demonsrators have done their protest at the airport. Beijing has not taken the bait, the demonstrators know that they have just simply angered a load of foreign tourists and travellers. That's all they've done. They know that, and that's why, hopefully, they will leave the airport. They are actually leaving the airport. What have they achieved ? Very little, I think.

4 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Shenzhen, China just across the border. Satellite imagery shows Chinese military vehicles congregating near Hong Kong's border. From CNN

 

 

3 hours ago, keemapoot said:

Yeah, they hid all the vehicles in the ShenZhen sports arena, wisely not wanting anyone to see them. I guess this was plan b, but they would be highly reluctant to send them into HK as it would seriously undermine investor confidence and add fire to an already hot blaze.

I think we should be sensible here. Beijing can easily give orders for riot police in Hong Kong, to remove them kids at the airport. No need for Chinese soldiers in Shenzen to cross into Hong Kong, in order to remove them kids.

The media going on about satellite images showing a gathering of military vehicles near the Hong Kong border. They're simply trying to whip up a scary atmosphere, they're trying to demonize Beijing. That's what they're always trying to do.

6 hours ago, gunderhill said:

vile scumbags

What ???
The demonstrators are taking over the airport, and they are stopping flights entering and leaving Hong Kong. So, what about pilots and other staff, at Cathay Pacific, the ones who are joining in, with the protestors ?

Look, if I was flying to Hong Kong, or out of Hong Kong, using Cathay Pacific, well, I wouldn't feel safe or secure IF the people controlling the aeroplane are also trying to stop the flights. Yes, all staff who are supporting those who want to block the arport and flights, should be removed from their job.

So, if you are flying on Cathay Pacific, out of Hong Kong, you feel okay about the demonstrators trying to stop your flight ? You feel okay about the pilot, if he is part of the effort to stop your flight ?  You reckon that some people are vile scumbags ?  Can I say that, I don't think you're the sharpest tool in the box.

How about, you become part of whatever group that wants to boycott Cathay Pacific ? How about boycott Hong Kong ?  I mean, instead of the demonstrators having to block Hong Kong Airport, how about no tourists turn up there ? With nobody turning up at the airport, well, there's no need for the demonstrators to block flights, right ??

Chris Patten, can you please say nothing, and tell the British government to stay out of this ?

The last thing Britain wants now, is to make whatever comments that will antagonise Beijing. Britain is leaving Europe, and Britain needs a good trade deal with China. Deliberately antagonising and offending Beijing will harm the prospects of a good trade deal with China.

We all know that hardly anybody outside of Hong Kong cares about this. The media has given coverage to this, because it's all a big attempt to demonize China, to make China look bad. Why the absurd interest in freedom and democracy in Hong Kong ?
Vietnam, Laos, Burma, Cambodia, etc, none of these countries have proper democratic elections. Yet, Britain wants to raise the issue of freedom and democracy in Hong Kong ? Apart from throwing a stone at Beijing, making Beijing look bad, what reason is there, to zoom in and mention Hong Kong in such a way ?

If Britain really is concerned about freedom and democracy in the world, well, how about mention the following ? India was previously a Britsh Empire country, a British colony. Right now, India is doing stuff in Kashmir, cutting phone and internet links between Kashmir and the rest of the world. How about using time and effort to talk about Kashmir instead of Hong Kong.


And, Mr Patten, you was the last British man to be in charge of Hong Kong. What happened, prior to you leaving Hong Kong in 1997 ? Do you remember the feelings of lots of Hong Kong people ? Some of them felt that Britain had betrayed them, some of them reckoned that the subjects of the British Empire should have been given permission to leave Hong Kong, and go to Britain. Off-course, Britain did not allow a mass exit of Chinese people (call them Hong Kongnese if you want to, they're still Chinese) from Hong Kong to Britain, during the handover in 1997.

So, my message to the British government is this. 
"Please do not try to make it look like that you are concerned about freedom and democracy for the people of Hong Kong. The main goal has always been to demonize Beijing, make Beijing look bad. And bearing in mind that Britain is leaving Europe, Britain needs a good trade deal with China. It would be absurd to antagonise Beijing, and to still hope for a good trade deal".

1 hour ago, Senior Player said:

A seven hour trip is not at all convenient. I admire your stamina and persistence @Greenwich Boy

 

If I'm successful with my postal application for my 60-day visa, I'll post a how-to-guide on another thread for those that have struggled with this online process, pointing out the hurdles and how I overcame them.

Yes, please do that.   ????

4 hours ago, JamesBlond said:

Lam has to go - she is too soft. The world has been filling with soft leaders who are letting things go pear-shaped.

HK needs a leader who can cosy up enough to Beijing to get elected, then turn hard when in power. Politics is Machiavellian and it takes balls, but unfortunately the free world has been turning faggish.

 

The extradition bill should have been drafted to include only certain (non-political) crimes. China doesn't want HK to be a safe haven for political dissidents but China is not so stupid as to think they can crush this rebellion by force as they did Tiananmen. Game on.

"China is not stupid as to think they can crush this rebellion by force".  Yes, I think you're correct.

The people behind the demonstrations have deliberately put them kids into the airport, daring Beijing to carry out a strong removal of them people at the airport. It's the bait they've thrown down, let's see if Beijing takes the bait, let's see if Beijing violantly removes the demonstrators. And if Beijing takes the bait, well, the "real power" behind the demonstrations have achieved their goal. Their goal is to make Beijing look bad, they want to demonize Beijing.

I hope Beijing doesn't take the bait, and I hope they allow them kids to carry on being at the airport. This will simply harm Hong Kong's economy,  the airport is actually a massive transport hub for Asia, and hopefully, the general public and media will show what's really happening.

And what is happening ? Hong Kong's economy is being slowly destroyed by these kids. Hopefully, those kids will see sense, and leave the airport. Leave the airport themselves, no need for riot police to boot them out.