kikoman

I think Suthep and his allies should be investigated.

Each one of his moves damaged the Thai economy. Could it be possible they bid against certain stocks so that if they lose value, they end up making a huge amount of money?

I wouldn't be surprised if he did that and made billions in the process.

Good idea. And the Shinawats could be investigated at the same time. Their family wealth has increased a whopping 450% since little Poo took office and big brother told Forbes his sister's government sent him I billion baht. Shame the farmer's haven't been paid this week despite Yingluck's vow. Still she has her priorities, clearly.

Is 450% accurate?

Of course that is not accurate!

Thaksin does not even show in the top ten, a real eye opener would be the richest man in Thailand Dhanin Chearavanont, wealth increased from under 3 billion to 14.3 billion i just two (2) years!

Source Wikipedia

Cheers

Suthep has made another cool calm and calculated decision which has now left a little bit of house keeping up to the courts to end this corrupt government and the Thaksin regime.

Suthep will continue to target Thaksin's businesses and will keep exposing the tyrants corrupt practises to the masses and watching shares fall.

Yingluck is in more trouble than she ever expected with many charges to face,

Getting to this stage is a big win for Democracy in thailand .

Well done Suthep ,PDRC and all the supporters.

Lost for words

In any other country he would face life in prison for damaging a company's shares on purpose.

In any other country Thaksin would be behind bars and have no companies or shares , In any other country the persons responsible for burning down bangkok would all be serving lengthy prison sentences .

The rich can still get away with murder in the U.S., Look at any of the high profile cases. only a few ever see the inside of a jail or prison!

PM Yingluck rejects face-to-face talks with protest leader Suthep http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/707465-pm-yingluck-rejects-face-to-face-talks-with-protest-leader-suthep/

Was wondering how she plans to talk with him, from behind his back or on facebook ?

A source we are not allowed to quote from, a newspaper , one should read for them self states (not verbatim statement) Yingluck stated she upheld the rules and regulations, so I need talks within a legal and constitutional framework.

If you disagree with the framework & obstruct elections, if you do not respect the rules , How can we talk?

Suthep has clearly been ordered by his masters, to calm down his rhetoric as he has backtracked on his promise of "no talks" and has left four protest sites and apologized to the people of Bangkok.

Finally many are realizing he overplayed his hand, now to much violence has broken out and if not stopped now, could cause great damage to Thailand!

Cheers

This is an unprecedented situation. The minister of the interior was attending a UDD rally where secession was championed. The rally also called for readiness for an armed rebellion. The minister didn't admonish the leaders or the crowd. Far from it. Any other member of the administration would be called immediately to the prime minister's office ( wherever that is ) and sacked. But instead, the minister of labour, the head of CMPO, and who knows what else - shirks it off as mere rhetoric. Oh really ? Care to bet what the arena of red shirts thought ? That they were " just kidding " ? If the UDD were in opposition, it would be dangerous enough, but for them to be government is profoundly disturbing. From that same rally stage, the UDD attacked the independent agencies and called for the elimination of them. That is now the active campaign of the UDD. Yingluck is sworn to uphold the constitution. She is sworn to uphold a constitution that empowers the independent agencies. She is sworn to protect them. She has a constitutional duty to dress the UDD down, and to tell them to disembark from their calls to secession and to their attack on the legal checks and balances of the rule of law.

It kind of late for the opposition to start thinking of upholding the constitution when they have failed to abide by the constitution up to this point!

Also the Independent agencies you are talking about have not been so independent, and their findings are not unbiased, always on the anti government side and do not forget the Red Shirts are also peaceful protesters and the government is no allowed to disburse their protest, which by now is part of the rule of law in Thailand, a ruling made by its highest court in the land!

No! the government is not responsible for any action or words, associated with the Red Shirts that now fall into the category of "Peaceful Protesters".

Somehow to the anti government supporters those shoes do not fit very well when they are on another's foot and the socks are red!

Cheers

An assumption being made is that following a split, Northerners working in the South would go "home". This is unlikely for the majority I would think - temporary/migrant workers, sure, but people working in hotels, bars, hospitals, factories, etc - why would they give up a job to go "home" to joblessness, especially when there is a possibility that jobs will be even easier to come by and possibly better paid as a result, to stay?

In all honestly, it's academic really, the military would never allow such a spilt any way so it is just a thought experiment.

I have said before when civil war was mentioned, there are more ways to skin a cat. Itb would be far better to devolve rather than break up - that keeps the ASEAN membership, currency, Monarchy, GDP etc all the same. Just shift all local matter to regional parliaments - and make up a central parliament from equal numbers of those MPs for national topics (such as federal law, military, immigration, BoT/SET related, central taxes, national police (FBI like for federal laws only), national ceremonies etc, and regional budgets) - split off (taxes/health/education/local trade/bi-laws/local courts/regional policing/Aggriculture/planning/local budget/etc). Then all are represented by the people they want at both a local and national level and the economy stays intact.

I tend to agree with you that hopefully civil war does not visit Thailand, but if the powers that be in Bangkok come up with a solution that does not again invalidate the Northern vote in 2011, as that will cause a reaction that would involve a one way street to civil war.

You state the military would not allow such a break up. in the newspaper the other morning that we are not allowed to quote, the commander of the Army stated there was a split developing within the ranks of the military, because of the rumors that the military was helping the PDRC, and rumors that military personal was responsible for the grenade attacks on the police and that pro government supporters within the Army were upset.

The common practise of the rich is to buy deferment of their son's from having to fulfill their service obligations and the fact that the reds live in the most populous areas in the country. That the average conscript in the service are Northern rural soldiers who would not follow orders to attack your own!

So that leaves more of a reason to crack down on the protest and set up an election for Thai's to pick their own leader by the power of the vote.

The military will be forced to make that decision if they do not want a civil war, we do not need a civil war in Thailand!

Let them knock themselves out and try this. The North would probably end up begging to be a part of Burma and Isaan could go back to being a part of Laos again.

Agriculture including rice (and many other products) is actually only 10% if GDP but occupies over 30% of the work force. So it is hugely inefficient. The taxpayers' money that has been squandered (including the govt's bad debts) on rice production in two years is equivalent to around 3% of GDP and the only result to show is the destruction of Thailand's rice export competitiveness that will take years to recover, if ever.

If they form their own state(s) in the North and the Northeast ruled by Chinese and Southerner dictators (Jatuporn, Nattawut, Veera, Thida etc are all Southerners), Bkk and the South can let their rice rot and import what they need from India and Vietnam - better quality and lower prices.

Tourism is supposedly only 8% of GDP but employees another 15%.

All this stuff could be solved if local governments could impose more local taxes. The rice/sugrmar/paper is grown and processed in isaan but the export invoice is generated in bangkok.

Rayong should be the richest town in thailand by a very long way but it definitely isn't. This endless patronage to bangkok can and should be stopped.

There are several reasons why money isn't ending up in Rayong. One is that many of the companies are registered in Bangkok. Another is that many of the companies, particularly the largest ones, are foreign and have tax benefits under BOI regulations. A third is that most of the workers come from other parts of Thailand, mainly Isan, and don't spend much in Rayong, but send money home every month. A fourth is that tax levels are far too low on Thailand. Add to that a big portion of corruption, and you have a formula for slow development.

Look at Pattaya also. The city should be flooded with money, but they don't even have proper public hospital capacity for its citizens, no public buses, no main buss station...

There is no need for public bus company in Pattaya, as that is the easiest town to go anywhere in the city with a minimum of waiting for transportation! The only reason a public bus system would improve road condition is Pattaya is to deal with its congested traffic and rid the city of an large unnecessary fleet of baht buses.

Funny a few months ago when I was there in Pattaya I arrived and departed Pattaya at the main Bus station!

Cheers

Let them knock themselves out and try this. The North would probably end up begging to be a part of Burma and Isaan could go back to being a part of Laos again.

Agriculture including rice (and many other products) is actually only 10% if GDP but occupies over 30% of the work force. So it is hugely inefficient. The taxpayers' money that has been squandered (including the govt's bad debts) on rice production in two years is equivalent to around 3% of GDP and the only result to show is the destruction of Thailand's rice export competitiveness that will take years to recover, if ever.

If they form their own state(s) in the North and the Northeast ruled by Chinese and Southerner dictators (Jatuporn, Nattawut, Veera, Thida etc are all Southerners), Bkk and the South can let their rice rot and import what they need from India and Vietnam - better quality and lower prices.

Yea and the Suthep people will eat palm oil and rubber instead of rice and could drink red bull instead of water!

Cheers

"hardcore red shirts declared to secede the country’s north and northeast regions to establish what they called “Isan-Lanna” state"

Like I said in an earlier thread. A landlocked "Isan-Lanna" state bordering with the landlocked metropolis of the PDR Lao would be nothing short of a economical dust bowl. The north are kidding themselves if they think they can get by without commerce hub Bangkok, the resource rich southern provinces and those other provinces bordering the Gulf of Thailand and the Andaman sea.

Why would it be landlocked ? Lots of access to the sea from Chonburi all the way to the Cambodian border.

The north and central provinces generate pretty much most of Thailands GDP.

The north generates pretty much all of Thailands electrical power.

The north controls all the water flows through the country.

A seperated North/Central "Lanna/Isaan" block would have all the electrical power, all the labour, all the water and generate loads of money.

Without the Central/North block Bangkok and the south would have NO water, NO electrical power, pretty much NO labour - and soon all the factories would move out of Bangkok/South.

This is why Bangkok and the South get so upset about talk of a divide - they offer nothing and live of off the North/Central area's. power generation, water flows, crops, GDP generation etc...

All in my opnion of course.

They talk about Lanna plus Isan. Central Thailand is not a part of that. Neither is Chonburi. They would have no access to the sea, very little industry and the least productive agricultural areas.

Wrong again Central Thailand is part of it, why would I know because I live in Central Thailand, the rice bowl of the country, the Farmers that were suppose to protest at the air port were from Central Thailand but did not want to be used by the PDRC or the Media as part of the protest against the government, they turned around and came home

Check it out Central Thailand voted for PTP solidly in the last elections,

Cheers

The Thai military has no control over their weapons even when the staff are on duty or not. You see them riding on motorcycles going home or where they are going OFF base. And this includes the police too.

That is not factual, the military only use arms when it is required, when not require the weapons are locked down! If they have weapons off base, they are not off duty!

The police is a different story, they are mostly armed all the time (with the service side arm (hand guns) but all the heavy weapons are locked down until the need arises to use them!

Cheers

Confirms What has been rumoured since the protests began,!

Also a great indication of where the war weapons are coming from and who attacked the police with live ammo and grenades. Also as the Thai navy uses multiload 40 mm grenade launchers that can fire M79 grenades.

Also The seals commanding Officer should be relieved of his command to undergo an investigation Re; His attempts at starting a international incident by claiming Cambodians were behind the attacks, offering an alibi for the first (3) arrested seals (on undercover drug investigation) As 60 seals from his command are said to be involved and if he did not know anything about it, negligence of his duties!

They military should order all active duty personnel to cease acting as security for any private personal and look into stopping any payment still be made to those individuals ie: such as retirement benefits.

Their is no place for these loose cannons in a free society!

Cheers

How often do red shirt supporters say that a coup wouldn't work now because so many soldiers come from red shirt areas? Don't those people have access to guns and grenades as well?

Obviously you have never been in the military and do not know that the military knows where all of the weapons are, When you are in the military you are not given guns for you to carry around 24/7 when the weapons are not in use they are locked down.

I believe you are talking about apples and oranges, in a civil war, members of the military will choose what side they choose to fight with, as happens in all civil wars. Soldier would refusal orders to kill their own people,

Again Soldiers do not have guns on then while their off duty or when involved in activities that do not require weapons, and do not have access to those weapons when off duty!

Cheers

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Confirms What has been rumoured since the protests began,!

Also a great indication of where the war weapons are coming from and who attacked the police with live ammo and grenades. Also as the Thai navy uses multiload 40 mm grenade launchers that can fire M79 grenades.

Also The seals commanding Officer should be relieved of his command to undergo an investigation Re; His attempts at starting a international incident by claiming Cambodians were behind the attacks, offering an alibi for the first (3) arrested seals (on undercover drug investigation) As 60 seals from his command are said to be involved and if he did not know anything about it, negligence of his duties!

They military should order all active duty personnel to cease acting as security for any private personal and look into stopping any payment still be made to those individuals ie: such as retirement benefits.

Their is no place for these loose cannons in a free society!

Cheers

Well where else would war weapons come from Tesco Lotus.

To me I know it comes from the military as so many members of the military have been implicated in support of the protesters. Now they have been caught red handed, in actions as mafia hit man attempted assassination of a red shirt leader.

Confessed to be employed as security guards for PDRC as that security has been involved in the beating of police man, dragging a young Thai women off the streets of Thailand, intimidating her and holding her against her will, while being paid by the country as members of the military!

The Commanding officer of both groups of arrested navy seals offered an alibi for the first three arrested and tried to blame Cambodians for the misdeeds of the men in his command.

The most damning rumors are that military mercenaries were used to ambush the police, and are responsible for the death of two policeman and four protesters, never thought they would confess to their participation on the behalf of the protesters.

Cheers

Confirms What has been rumoured since the protests began,!

Also a great indication of where the war weapons are coming from and who attacked the police with live ammo and grenades. Also as the Thai navy uses multiload 40 mm grenade launchers that can fire M79 grenades.

Also The seals commanding Officer should be relieved of his command to undergo an investigation Re; His attempts at starting a international incident by claiming Cambodians were behind the attacks, offering an alibi for the first (3) arrested seals (on undercover drug investigation) As 60 seals from his command are said to be involved and if he did not know anything about it, negligence of his duties!

They military should order all active duty personnel to cease acting as security for any private personal and look into stopping any payment still be made to those individuals ie: such as retirement benefits.

Their is no place for these loose cannons in a free society!

Cheers

So will evidence be provided to support these accusations, people be arrested, charged and prosecuted in accordance with the law.

No, I thought not. Just the police accusing the military again. Trying to provoke a response? The man in Dubai must be thinking hard again.

Like to see the police do their job, protect all members of society and not just those who happen to support the Shins.

What happened to the 4 reds caught with guns and grenades, the woman caught driving the car from which shots were fired at protesters, the off duty policeman who was caught after shooting at protesters from the back of a motor bike?

The Shins are no more supporters of a free society than any wannabee dictator or have you forgotten their attacks on free speech already?

The military are different then the every day citizen, they are protectors of Thailand against all deemed to be enemies of Thailand, they take an oath of loyalty to the King and the nation. Therefore they are to be held to an higher standard of conduct.

As they are soldiers 24/7, their action while in uniform or not, military discipline is demanded they are in the service to the nation until their enlistment expires The Commanding Officer hold a responsibility for the action of his men, if so many stated number (60) are employed by PDRC then if he is not aware of what they are doing," he should" and that would be negligence, those other people you mentioned look up what the law states.

Cheers

The day Thailand has no equality will be the day we are all millionaires, inequality is in every country , just on different a scale, most Expats are living in Thailand because of inequality of some sort in their countries , most can afford to live in Thailand but not there own country, so inequality reigns supreme , it is doubtful that the top end of Thailand town would like to see equality , that only means less and we can't have that can we.

While it is true in my home country the top (1) % are outrageously wealthy the differences is that society saw fit to share the wealth with their country men, IE: Social Security system (national retirement system for all) Farm subsidies, Food stamps, Equal right Amendment, labor Unions, Livable wages, a large middle class. Educational opportunities, no bribes to policeman, a well paid police department and military, child labor laws. etc;

While in Thailand the Ammart make money on the suffering of the citizens of the country, many countries have legislated financial equality programs they are the basic reason why there is a perceived problem in Thailand today, the Ammart's opposition to Thailand's wealth sharing programs!

The richest man in Thailand net worth increased from 2.8 billion (USD) to 14.3 billion in just 2 years, don't take my word google it!

Cheers

Angry rice farmers are demanding overdue payments from a government that cannot sell stockpiled rice fast enough. And Premier Yingluck Shinawatra stands to be relieved of her duties after an unusually snappy investigation into her alleged negligence.

"Unusually snappy investigation" indeed, perhaps the reason for that is the unusually high level of corruption, and incompetence displayed by this government in a very short period of time. One might be inclined to admire the the work the government has done on creating debt, much the same way you applaud a car that severely cuts you off on the highway, you're really angry that he did it, but appreciate his skill.

Could you kindly inform us (the unknowing) of these unusually high level of corruption you posted to for I believe the NACC found "NO" corruption attributed directly to PM Yingluck.

Could you kindly elaborate in view on the "unusually high level of corruption" Why the NACC only charged her with Negligence? That could result in her being given a fair hearing by the "Ammart" controlled appointed Senate!

Cheers

I see it as Chalerm accepting Suthep challenge to a "fist Fight" but to a more appropriate debate on live TV, Where size does not matter, but I do not believe Suthep is up to facing an likewise longtime professional politician that can look you in the eyes and lie to you.

Cheers

The Farmers could get paid if the "Ammart"(Rich Elite Establishment) quit their selfish opposition to the government getting a loan, but it will be interesting when a loan is presented to the EC and they reject it all will know who is causing the farmers suffering for political gain!

Cheers!

the NACC has not charged Yingluck with corruption, to be found guilty of a crime you have to be charged with that crime, the worst that could happen to Yingluck is to be found negligent in over seeing the rice scheme.

If what Suthep has been preaching for the last 4 months is not true, Then you all have been lied to, if the NACC found that she was involved in Corruption, they would have charge her with corruption, they did not.

That only make a statement loud and clear she is not involved in Corruption!

Cheers

The EC has caused the present problem by not following the election time limits in constitution, the EC no one elses fault, they were tasked to set up an election and they did all they could not to fulfil their agency responsibility.

Cheers

The guards won't be able to come to the police station to acknowledge the kidnapping charges because they are busy protecting the fugitive Suthep who can't go to the police station to acknowledge the murder charges because he is busy toppling an elected government.

Kidnaping? Come on. If you want to be taken seriously and want people to try to understand your beliefs you really should stick with the facts and not make everything you post completely over the top.

Saying that. Yes the guards are in the wrong and illegally detained her. They had no legal right to do that.

I am not familiar with Thai law but in the home country moving someone (Against their will from point A to Point B, is kidnapping) The law more likely are different, but in all respect a very serious criminal offence!

Cheers

Shows PTP voters are still behind their party!

Anti government posters keep (beating the dead horse of corruption) The NACC found no corruption on Yingluck at all, what other reason is behind the "Negligence" charge, There is a world of difference in a Corruption charge and a Negligence charge.

The only way out of this mess the military allowed to happen, is a free, transparent election overseen by the UN., to guarantee all have a right to vote their belief, I for one have always stated that whoever is the will of the majority of Thai voters, Which party wins, I will live with.

Hopefully the country will not have to under go a civil war to reach that free and transparent election, as It is the only viable way out of the current crises!

Cheers

The problem is that Suthep/Dems will never allow the UN to oversee an election, because if they should lose the election and the UN declared it free and fair the myth of vote buying would disappear. The UN can however be used to facilitate negotiations which lays out a political roadmap. This road map could be a government of national unity (based on parliamentary number as before 2nd February elections), this government must identify and implement reforms needed before an election (18 months to 24 months needed). This followed by an election supervised by international monitors. Afterwards a new government of unity is set up to implement the other agreed reforms over the next 4 years. I would also like to see this government of unity rewriting the constitution and that a new constitution is brought to the people in a referendum. By rewriting the constitution in such away that minority views are protected, many of the issues that led to these protests could be taken care of. Hope it makes sense.

Makes sense to me, what I am against is a non elected counsel to be allowed in any form.

The solution is viable in the sense that its does not invalidate any ones vote in 2011, a government of National unity, is a lot better option then a civil war!

It would have my vote, If I am ever allowed to vote, which at the moment I do not have that right.

Cheers