Babcock

I know it's a day ago but what a load of drivel. Of course Sophon et all will say it's a distraction just as they're all threatening to countersue.

Standard operating procedure in thai politics/business practice and you know it. You post all the time and you know well enough how difficult it is here to convict hi-so's.

This rail project was one of Abhisit's. Sophon was put in place by Abhisit. Sophon has been found out.

The trail leads up to the top in the BJT.

I hope this is just the beginning.

Ask questions about the governments handling of the flooding disaster and then let's ask questions about where all the flood relief funds went under Abhisit. I've read it was 160 billion baht.

We live in interesting times.

"This rail project was one of Abhisit's" - Abhisit secured the loan from the Japanese in Feb 2009. That's a pretty good effort after only being in office for 6 weeks. Are you suggesting that the Japanese government paid kickbacks?

"160 billion baht" - Where did you read that? The PTP only seem to think it is 40 billion baht. Maybe you had better put them on to your new figures.

It's been going on awhile. A quick search brings up from a year ago this link:

I did say that I thought I'd read of a figure around 160 billion. Even so 40 billion is about 1 billion euros.

Let's hope they can find out where that money went and get it back and they use it for flood compensation and not just more mercedes.

Chalerm claimed an 8 percent kickback was demanded on the deal to construct the mass transit lines, which influenced the Japanese International Cooperation Agency to cancel its contract with Sino Thai Engineering Company

So the Japanese backed out and are therefore NOT a part of this corruption case. But what about Sino Thai? If they are involved they too should be called to explain....

The guilty are not just those that take in corruption but those who give as well.....

Maybe the Japanese explained to Mr Thaksin on his recent visit. A good will gesture to help PT fight corruption. It strikes me that Mr T is fighting a corruption conviction, what a better way to get to the amnesty by showing how corrupt the opposition is.

Hear hear! 2 brilliant posts.

It's just what the good doctor ordered! As in Doctor...Oh Gawd

Yes, Jayboy, that is true. But not this thread and not today!

Especially since this thread is open and the perfect place for them: http://www.thaivisa....-thais-opinion/

Have the investigators been in the house and ascertained how much money was NOT stolen?

I can't say but I'm sure Chalerm has a pretty good idea and he is going for it along with opportunistic pot shots at arch enemies Newin and Supon Zarum who are indeed highly unlikely to have clean hands in this. Chalerm has long since lost his investigative sharpness that made him a formidable force in no confidence debates in the 80s, including the one that forced Prem out of politics. I very much doubt he was behind the original burglary set up but he is certainly going to maximise his political and financial take on this windfall. With a 90% money laundering fee on a few hundred mil he could buy a sh*t load of happy toilets for his sons to sh*t on.

I suppose with Chalerm it takes one to know one. The right guy for the job. Sqealing about his past record isn't going to make him go away.

Of course the PTP are going to try and make political capital. What political party wouldn't. I'm surprised at some of the naivety of some of the above posters.

Get real!

Dems tried to back off Bhum Jai too, but didn't have the leverage at the time.

This is only revenge, if he was serious he'd go after his own partners.and THAT will never happen.

Ahh, so now you are claiming that the Democrats and the former PM Abhisit were forced to include the BJT in their administration. That's nice, but no one forced PM Abhisit to include the BJT. The current government also had to build a coalition, yet the government either by sheer luck or some political smarts did not include what is now a massive liability. Had the BJT party been included in the current government, I believe you and the usual gang of PTP bashers whould have been screaming about corruption and blaming PM Yingluck for activities that appear to have occurred during the previous military junta administration and that carried on into the Democrat administration.

I am not accusing PM Abhisit for the alleged corruption, but it is obvious, that the gentleman's political accuity was not very good. it seelms the former PM's lquest for power power and political opportunism has come back to bite him in his buttocks.

Please note that Deputy PM Chalerm is not implicated in the corruption, nor are the PTP's own partners. The allegations rest in he little corner of the political landscape that have BJT, Democrat and military junta territorial markers.

Who said forced? You did, not I. Do NOT twist my words.

If you had a valid point to make you wouldn't even try that.

Nor attempting to turn the point to bashers and the like pejorative labels.

Again no argument attack the source; It just doesn't work.

Abhisit DID put the brakes on several of Newin's schemes, and strained relations to the edge several times, that is a matter of public record.

No the fact BJT is NOW not included shows the entrench animosity, and that is coming out in this revenge scenario and the spin on it.

Just because bidding started at one point doesn't mean kickbacks aren't on going and accrue to whomever is in office at that time.

And yes certainly Sophon is right, this is a intentional distraction from the ineptitude displayed by the PTP on office so far.

I know it's a day ago but what a load of drivel. Of course Sophon et all will say it's a distraction just as they're all threatening to countersue.

Standard operating procedure in thai politics/business practice and you know it. You post all the time and you know well enough how difficult it is here to convict hi-so's.

This rail project was one of Abhisit's. Sophon was put in place by Abhisit. Sophon has been found out.

The trail leads up to the top in the BJT.

I hope this is just the beginning.

Ask questions about the governments handling of the flooding disaster and then let's ask questions about where all the flood relief funds went under Abhisit. I've read it was 160 billion baht.

We live in interesting times.

Plenty of Beer Lao up here in Vientiane - Damned good stuff at around 30 baht for a big 'un

Is this the thread that never went away?

Here in Sukhumvit locale as mentioned above no beer in 7-eleven. Oh I guess there's some Leo. Local stores though have Heineken and Chang etc. Only water in supermarket was small bottles at 7 baht each.

What's up at Makro?

Here courtesy of B Pundit:

Amount of water stored in the Bhumipol Dam per year for 2005-2011

Correction

Amount of water stored in the Bhumipol Dam per year for 2005-201

Here courtesy of B Pundit:

Amount of water stored in the Bhumipol Dam per year for 2005-2011

They were releasing a lot less water than they were taking in since August, that's when the floods started in the North. By September dams were almost full, at over 80% capacity, Disasters dept issued its highest level flood alert and that's when Theera gave this order, it was reported in Thai press, so they were still releasing less than taking in and then the hell broke loose.

I think the mismanagement here was in not spreading the floods evenly over two-three months but releasing it in one go that created this slow moving tsunami.

The conspiracy theory about Thaksin protecting Arab investors who bought land in Suphanburi is too good to pass. When water was about to be diverted to Suphan Banharn easily prevailed over Phua Thai MPs and they backed off and flooded Ayutthaya instead. Banharn has kept an extremely low profile since then, so did Theera, and, more importantly, so did Thaksin.

It's a mighty big ace the elites are holding against them - selling rice land to foreigners and flooding half the country to protect them. They are holding Thaksin, Banharn and Yingluck government practically by the balls and if Thaksin doesn't play nice someone will certainly use this conspiracy to incite the next massive uprising.

It is developing in slow motion, Theera's order alone took two months to go public and since Banharn insisted that there will be no punishment for his minster it's just the beginning.

New round of civil unrest is in nobody's interest but PT can't use this reason to goad the Democrats in accepting responsibility for floods, someone is going to snap and bring this new allegation against Thaksin into the public arena, and I don't mean Manager website no one takes seriously.

They are already asking YL to quit, this smells trouble.

Full marks for your conspiracy theory. I don't like the idea of the arabs buying up swathes of Thailand to grow crops exclusively for their home market. It's another form of conquest isn't it?

I thought the truth was they were afraid of another drought that's why the water levels were allowed to be so high with hardly any water being released between April and August.

And what if the water had been released, the rice crop destroyed and the following weeks, the rain had stopped? I know what the sentiment would be. the same ignorant loathesome calls for the minister's suicide and jailing. Grow up.

Its a big mistake and with huge consequence. The whole government should step down, or the guy should be held personal responsible.

They are paid good (or steal good) so if they make mistakes they should pay for it too. The is a reason that people like that earn more money. That is because they have more responsibility. This is like saying sorry but i wont quit or feel responsible.

Must be tough to see your beloved reds the cause of this whole mess. They could no longer deny it. Yingluck with her blaming the previous government

But this all happened on the Democrats watch. The waters began being released the beginning of August. Between april and july hardly any water was released and the dams were at double the capacity they were the previous year. I assume this guy is from Chart thai party as they were in the coalition with the democrats and got awarded the agriculture ministry. They are now coalition partners of Pheu Thai and have hung on to the same brief.

The article is very misleading. Wild accusations and scare mongering. In short posted to confuse.

So will there be an inquiry into water management in the months leading up to the flooding? Any just who was this Minister that ordered reduced releases from the dams during this time? Saw it mentioned a couple of times here and there, but no names were given.

Exactly. Between April and July they had ample opportunity to lower the water levels in the dams. The water levels were kept consistently at double the level they were in 2010. The farmers wanted water released for a second rice crop but were refused by central gov. Abhisit, yellow shirt, royalist, think of a name.Poo yah!

Then come August with the dams full the rain it just wouldn't stop not until October so exasperated they just flooded the country. Who was put in charge? Up until now the democrats have been surprisingly quiet. When you recall how they had a shadow ministry with the explicit, implicit aim to highlight PTP failures.

Now the misery of it all. People flooded out of their houses. Peoples possessions destroyed.

This is a typical "the Nation" style smear story. They have a long track record. We have Rupert Murdoch but he doesn't write the leaders or say what is included and what is not. It's different here.

I lived in Vietnam for over 10 years, and while it is no secret that the Communist authorities in VN are soulless, brutal thugs, they would never have permitted a flood situation to descend into such an absurd public farce as we are seeing here.

First, they would have mobilised the entire armed forces.

Second, they would have declared martial law, so that, for example, any hobbledehoy who started messing around with flood defences could be shot on the spot for endangering national security

Third, if necessary, they would have blasted huge deep channels to divert water away from industrial areas, airports, urban areas and so on, and into agricultural areas occupied by peasants, blowing up a Catholic church or two if they happened to be in the way.

Fourth, they would have called loudly for, and instantly accepted any foreign help going -- cash preferred, but helicopters and boats would do.

Fifth, they would only screen nightly programs showing solidarity, unity, victory in the national struggle and the mutual love between people and Party. No bickering between officials whatsoever, and no interviewing whinging locals.

Bottom line -- what kind of country do you want to live in?

er I think you should go back. The smack of firm discipline. Stop the rot.

--Quote-- "Members of the Pheu Thai Party meeting yesterday threatened to discharge the Bangkok Governor for failing to handle the flood crisis effectively." - - unquote

So, according to this headline, in Thailand members of the ruling party can just "DISCHARGE" the governor of the most important province.

Is that true?? What kind of a constitution is that?? Isn't he an elected man in his province??

Can somebody help me here?

The administration of Bangkok does not fall under the constitution.

It would seem the Interior Minister does have the authority to do so under the Bangkok Metropolis Organisation Act of 2528 (1985).

.

Why remove him? He is a great blame figure. Cant see it happening as PTP can make far too much mileage from all the thing she did that made it worse to those outside BKK and in western and northern parts of the city. The cartoons have already started portraying him as the cause of worse flooding north of BKK and the PTP have started wading in.

Oh and he is also very unpredictable and very arrogant and not in the Abhisit wing of the Dems, so why do Abhisit a double favour? Oh and the governor is also one of the dems who believe in cutting a deal with Thaksin but was stopped by Abhisit, so far better to leave him as a thorn for the opposition and a punch bag for PTP operatives in flooded areas. That is politics

I agree. I'm afraid I went off a bit on one there earlier. The business of the very public slanging match between the governor and the water authority. He claiming they hadn't provided him with his requested pumps and then we found out as in this thread he hadn't already requested them! Priceless. His mission to protect inner Bangkok. Nothing wrong with that except everyone else has to suffer outside and that's "not my problem." That's why there is a national government not just power cliques.

Always highly entertaining to read comments advocating a coup, which by defenition is always illegal and unconstitutional, not to mention highly undemocratic. Comments made by people who are merely guests in this country. It is clear to me that the current government isn't the only one failing here, the actions of the bma are equally poor or probably more so. Their reluctance to drain as much as possible not only prolongs the suffering upstream, it is now also turning bkk into an expanding swimming pool. The level of saen saeb speaks volumes, or are they now sacrifying bangkapi?

Always? - the first coup brought democracy to Thailand, the last removed a would-be dictator, and his return will probably trigger the next. Hopefully they will have learnt a lesson about misplaced compassion.

Yeah Pridi Banomyong. Let's name Thailand's hero falsely accused by Seni and banished after the death of well guess. He stood against the japanese. Thailand's lamentable history. On the one hand the militarists, the pro nazi. pro japanese empire; those for whom Thailand can never be ready for democracy. Those for whom the people are well just not educated enough and ranged against them perhaps some who wish to see real change, real democracy like Pridi.

That was way back then but I get the feelig a lot of the posters on here are stuck in the 1970's or maybe the 1980's, perhaps since when they arrived. Anti Blair. Anti Bush. Anti socialist. Anti communist. Pro the tea party. Such values.Expat and out of touch. The vitriol says it all. They haven't observed the Banking catastrophe and then the Arab spring this last year. Certainly they're not interested. The capitalist system on the rack. The corruption at the heart of the banking system. Corruption. What happened to the 160 billion baht flood relief program over the last 4 years? Where did the money go? I found coming here an eye opener. A challenge to my received wisdom. The problem the democrats have is they can't tailor their policies to appeal to the people as it goes agaist their vested interests leaving a clear field for Thaksin or whoever else. It took a hundred years for democracy to take root in europe. We're notionally 60 years down the track here but this is asia.

Always highly entertaining to read comments advocating a coup, which by defenition is always illegal and unconstitutional, not to mention highly undemocratic. Comments made by people who are merely guests in this country. It is clear to me that the current government isn't the only one failing here, the actions of the bma are equally poor or probably more so. Their reluctance to drain as much as possible not only prolongs the suffering upstream, it is now also turning bkk into an expanding swimming pool. The level of saen saeb speaks volumes, or are they now sacrifying bangkapi?

Ummm ... Bangkok is flooding ... don't you think they would be trying to drain as much of that as possible?

Obviously, the Bangkok klongs are unable to drain much of the flood water, otherwise it wouldn't currently be flooding.

They were explaining on channel 3 last night that they are reluctant to allow the run-off from the north into San Saeb as they fear this would overflow and could lead to the flooding of Sukhumvit, Silom etc. Phra Kanong near us is low and unmoving. They're using an underround tunnel over to the west to release the water.

And the "vandals" breaking down the flood barriers, by any chance were they wearing Red Shirts..? We already know how much those guys love Bangkok and Bangkokians...

From another thread

"Support and a scolding for Yingluck on flood tour"

"Yingluck also said that according to Flood Relief Operations Centre chief Pracha Promnok, flood barriers at Klong Papa had not been damaged by people, but had simply worn away.

Up to 17 vulnerable spots along the flood barriers were detected on Wednesday night and authorities had restored them all by yesterday."

And the "vandals" breaking down the flood barriers, by any chance were they wearing Red Shirts..? We already know how much those guys love Bangkok and Bangkokians...

Of course, but some wearing different color outside as a disguise. These Red Shirt terrorists will never give up! They really hate Bangkok. Last year they tried to burn down the city and this year they do everything they can to flood and contaminate it. They will not give up untill Bangkok has been destroyed. They just don´t realise, that without Bangkok, they will be suffering too, as Bangkok is generating most of their means of living, how humble it may be.

Of course. You're absolutely right. There it is in a nutshell. Simple really.

Late on Wednesday evening, vandals destroyed 17 points in the dykes protecting the water works canal, the source of tapped water that almost 10 million Bangkokians rely on for drinking and other consumption. This was bordering on espionage.

???? Is this bordering on espionage? Or is it sabotage?

A very drama Queenish type article. Gippy has the right idea, a few bottles of bleach a bit of elbow grease and then crack on.

Absoluterly :D

and yet;

"Khlong Saen Saeb, which runs through the heart of Bangkok to the Chao Phraya River in the west and Khlong Phra khanong to the south, would have to take in more water from this critical decision. There would be risk of spillover floods from Khlong Saen Saeb."

This I still don't understand. On another forum page someone mentioned that Saen Saeb water levels are lower than during the drought. Near us Khlong Phra khanong, that leads down to the river, the water is static and at the same level. Why is it not flowing into the river? Are there blockages, buildings etc. Out to the east there are a lot of illegal developments blocking the water passage.

Oh dear.

I believe if you are going to blame anyone it should be the election committee .

We've heard from the dam administrators that the dams were not full at the beginning of July and then we had a lot of rain through July and then August and September filling the dams.

They didn't release waters when they should have and this coincided with the election aftermath where, amongst other things, due to frivolous yellow shirt attempts to get Yingluk impeached the new government were prevented from taking office for over a month. The democrats were notionally in charge. Barnham and his party controlled the agriculture ministry responsible for the dams and irrigation and they still do!

The new government was running through its policies with the electorate and nobody was really paying attention to the impact of the flooding.

So blame Pheu Thai. Blame the democrats. Blame Chart Thai. Blame the water authorities. This is a perfect storm.

I point out that there was a power vacuum at the crucial time so I blame the Election committee as well.

Saw the british ambassador on TV last night and he talked a lot of sense and believes the thai people, working together will overcome this . Things are coming back slowly. Tesco's etc are restocking. New supply chains. The water contines to come. We're dry but for how much longer who knows.

This will happen again next year so now they are going to have to undertake major works. Like the BTS and airport major works have to be carried out. The future lies with the khlongs.

The election committee had 30 days to review all complaints. The new government were not going to be in office until the start of August regardless of who complained. The rains from the tropical storms didn't start until late August. The same party was in charge of the dams through all of this time.

There were other delays like the delay for Yingluk waiting for assent.Yingluk saluting the photo as shown on TV.

The rains started in late July I thought but early July at the dam, and they've been on the news media explaining their actions, they were worrying about another drought and conserving as much water as they could. I'm just saying there was a power vacuum at the crucial time and no-ne picked up the baton.

I believe if you are going to blame anyone it should be the election committee .

We've heard from the dam administrators that the dams were not full at the beginning of July and then we had a lot of rain through July and then August and September filling the dams.

They didn't release waters when they should have and this coincided with the election aftermath where, amongst other things, due to frivolous yellow shirt attempts to get Yingluk impeached the new government were prevented from taking office for over a month. The democrats were notionally in charge. Barnham and his party controlled the agriculture ministry responsible for the dams and irrigation and they still do!

The new government was running through its policies with the electorate and nobody was really paying attention to the impact of the flooding.

So blame Pheu Thai. Blame the democrats. Blame Chart Thai. Blame the water authorities. This is a perfect storm.

I point out that there was a power vacuum at the crucial time so I blame the Election committee as well.

Saw the british ambassador on TV last night and he talked a lot of sense and believes the thai people, working together will overcome this . Things are coming back slowly. Tesco's etc are restocking. New supply chains. The water contines to come. We're dry but for how much longer who knows.

This will happen again next year so now they are going to have to undertake major works. Like the BTS and airport major works have to be carried out. The future lies with the khlongs.

flood.htm

Made this file with the help of another TV-er.

can see Chaopraya and canals clearly. Lardprao canal rises and falls with chaopraya

Many thanks. Well done

In Pinklao, the situation is rapidly worsening. The floodwater levels are to around 1.3 metres and they are barely moving according to tides. There is noticeable panic among soldiers to repair the dykes.

My apartment's sandbagged, water-pumped and sealed barrier has been overrun. The breeze block wall-- just built-- is holding out at the entrances but every time the water level rises more leaks spring.

Any worse and the electricity must be switched off. Currently aiding the staff (9 people) with a desperate last stand.

The TV signal is knocked out, the water is compromised. The emergency chemical toilet has been destroyed by the flooding.

This might be the last time I can get on the internet, so I bid you good night and good luck. Situation hopeless, all is lost, we fight on. God Save the Queen.

Time to start playing " Nearer my God to Thee" ?? :-)

( Played as the Titantic was sinking)

By

A relative of mine no less! the leader. How brave.

Good luck Gachaa.

Thanks to info on elevation map. Hooray 3.5 meters above sea level here in Sukhumvit

For what it's worth. Maybe go back to sleep

Last Christmas I received a gift sent via Amazon of 2 CDs. Our staff manager had to pay duty of 900 baht but the value of the goods was less than 500 baht.

So if you have amazon vouchers are you going to be hit on any delivery? Previously it didn't happen.

I went into Big C this afternoon. They had plenty of beer ... pallets of it ... all Leo.

On that, does anyone know of a way to remove all the water from Leo so it tastes like a real beer?

Does CP make it? Like they inject water into everything to increase their profit margin.

Did CNN think to ask her why she has refused assistance from the US navy? If she was that concerned about the people then why would she not take all the outside help she can get. Any other county that cares about their citizens would!!!

Was it her or was it the army?

One said yes , the other said no. So the americans have gone to Japan instead. Joined up government I don't think so.

Where is the Army when we need them

Dont know where the army is, but the US Navy fleet is heading back out from the Gulf of Thailand with its aircraft carrier and escorts with its fleet of helicopters and all of the emergency aid that the flortilla was carrying for Bangkok, seems the US needed an official SOS call for help to begin with emergency assistance, one from the government and one from the military, but could only get one yes and one no which means its a no-go and away the navy sails into the horizon, amazing Thailand never stops amazing me.

So was it the army that turned them away? Lack of cordination one wonders.

Thailand needs all the help it can get at the moment. They're all arguing amongst thmeselves.

Wages in Malaysia are 3 times what they are here. The japanese won't go there and you get these thai aademics coming on the media and saying that as a consequence of the flooding the 300 baht minimum wage should be scrapped.

Paid lackeys.