LivinLOS

On 8/8/2024 at 1:13 AM, Presnock said:

BOI specifically said I could get a work permit - they would assist - wealthy pensioner LTR holder.  funny how all the folks that don't even have a particular visa want all to think that they are the experts for that particular visa.  Have a good day.

Your not reading him.. 

The OP falls under the work from Thailand professional category and can't get a digital work permit for that category.

You can not obtain a work permit on the work from Thailand professional category, for your non Thai work. There has to be a Thai employer to obtain a work permit. 

Which means someone who is on the wealthy pensioner who wishes to work in Thailand, can apply for a work permit for that work which they do for a Thai entity but not for work done for a non Thai entity. 

Just now, sandyf said:

It is against the rules to alter a post.

 

I was not aware of that rule.. However I hope the edit should make it clear why the statement works.. There is a conditional in the statement which you seem to seek to avoid. 

The DTA states

"Any pension paid .. in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State."

The caveat of 'in respect to' should also be clear ? 

2 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

Your quote is specifically about the UK State Pension which, I agree, is not taxed in the UK if you are non-tax resident.    Other pensions ARE taxed in the UK.  That they may not be taxed at source if you file a P85 is not the issue - there is still a tax liability.

 

PH

Private pensions absolutely should not be taxed at source in UK. 

What pensions are you claiming are UK taxable for a non resident ? 

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

A government pension is remitted, and under most DTA's not assessable.

Many, even most Gov pensions (western) are assessable.. 

N Americans are not in that.

5 hours ago, sirineou said:

They better get their act together we only have 5 months remaining in the Year I am transfering funds to Thailand that I don't even know how they will taxed, or even if they will be taxed at all. My next door neighbor wants to sell the lot next to our house. I would love to buy it. But I an afraid to transfer the funds, because I don't know how it will be taxed. Once again they are shooting themselves on the foot.

You can gift your wife 20 million per year.. tax free... 

Send it to her if she would be buying the land. 

18 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Would you like to quote a reputable source for that statment?  It appears to be directly at odds wth this:

 

Your UK residence status affects whether you need to pay tax in the UK on your foreign income.

Non-residents only pay tax on their UK income - they do not pay UK tax on their foreign income.

Residents normally pay UK tax on all their income, whether it’s from the UK or abroad. But there are special rules for UK residents whose permanent home (‘domicile’) is abroad.

From:

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence#:~:text=Non-residents only pay tax,'domicile') is abroad.

and this:

You usually have to pay tax on your UK income even if you’re not a UK resident. Income includes things like:

• pension
• rental income
• savings interest
• wages

From:

https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad

 

 

 

Pensions 100% not, I used to supply SIPP pensions from a previous business and the process is file a P85, obtain an NT tax code, do not get taxed at source. 

The only caveat for the UK is armed forces pensions and some senior civil servants which ARE always taxed at source. 

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension/tax-when-you-live-abroad#

 

Quote

If you’re not a UK resident, you don’t usually pay UK tax on your pension. But you might have to pay tax in the country you live in. There are a few exceptions - for example, UK civil service pensions will always be taxed in the UK.

8 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

There's been at least 1 report of somebody going into their Tax Office and asking if they needed to File as all of their income was not taxable by Thailand under a DTA & they were told that they didn't have to.

 

I think a lot of people will be filing non-taxable reports if this guidance was wrong (Plus a lot of US guys who thought they didn't need to file are going to be very upset). 

 

Local tax offices are frankly clueless.. I went to mine early in the year and they had so little understanding of the new rules, DTA's etc it was laughable.. Plus that WAS they way it was, now with the rule change, is that the way it is next year ?? I would liek them to put it in writing (I bet they resist that !!). 

This was recently published but still crucially does not adress the point we are both discussing. I agree with you that at this point we dont know, I tend to be suspicious enough to thing they will demand it, maybe not year 1, but over time as the noose tightens. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1l0uv2e9anPg9tgs9WzuBTQSETFQhzqJu/view?usp=drive_link

I dont believe you should pay any UK taxation other than arising from a fixed domestic asset (rental returns, forestry income, that kind of thing). I would need to check dividends, its not on my radar, possibly from a REIT I could imagine it being domestic source.. .. But people frequently think you need to pay uk tax on pensions etc and thats 100% incorrect. 
 

6 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

The Tax is taken out before you get your Dividend and the rate/yield of the dividend is quoted as the after Tax amount but Withheld tax has been taken.

 

This is taken from my 2023/24 UK Tax return prepared by my accountant... NB the final line "8.75% tax treated as paid on dividends from UK companies (Not Repayable). 

 

 

 

 

Have you filed a P85 and obtained an NT tax code ?? 

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I believe it's self assessment so it's up to the individual to judge whether it's assessable income or not & US SS is not so no need to report/file.

I think this is an easy determination.. 'Assessable' income is the amount sent in if you are tax resident, thats different from 'liability' to pay.. 

Do you need to file if not liable ? Or do you need to file asessable income anyway.. To be determined. 

16 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Just to clarify it's 120K/220K of assessable income so somebody remitting 1Million THB pa of US Social Security "Income" would not have to file a return as they have no assessable income. 

Your mixing up assessable income and liability.. Someone who remits 1 mil thb funds has a 1 mil assessable income they 'might' have to justify.. Of course if it is social security, or pre jan 1 savings, or otherwise protected under a DTA then it may have no liability, but it IS still assessable to determine that. 

If they choose to go this hard on it is anyones guess, this is all too new to know. 

I assume this has already been postyed as its many weeks old ?? apologies if it has and this is a known thing. Roi Et immigration asking for banking balance, deposit type etc. 

But here can really see how immigration can start looking at how much savings you have here, and how next year any difference from this year could need to be justified. 

The vast majority of the expats I meet in the real world seem to just be in total denial that the systems are changing, they are adopting an ignore it plan of action.. 

 

On 7/22/2024 at 4:53 PM, stat said:

So is the majority of the UK guys still tax resident in UK as well as in TH? Thx!

But cruciually they should not be, the UK is a territorial tax regime and once you leave you should file a P85 and tell them so (and obtain an NT tax code for domestic income taxed at source like pensions). 

That is how the DTA is to be looked at, now will Thailand say 'ok you paid it there.. thats pre taxed have a tax credit' which imo they are likely to, or will they say under the DTA you shoudlnt be paying it there, you should pay it where you are resident ie here, and you now should apply to the UK for a UK tax credit against your Thai bill which is xxxxx.. 

Thats entirely possible in law and even how it 'should' be done.. Any expat moving to eg portugal or another developed country with a properly applied tax system would operate like this. 

Just now, Lorry said:

Visa fees or extension fees are not published in the royal gazette, are they?

They are not however they are ALL 1900 thb.. If it was to be non standard you would think it would be stated, to not do so at the very least implies it is standard. This is now repeated by the Dep Dir of Min FA.. So multiple data points. 

Really we will know next jan when its attempted. 

CM immigration runs a really good chat that answers questions accurately (as cm policy) and they were not able to answer this liek they usually did. They gave me a name and number and told me to call it next week.

2 hours ago, mania said:

The one thing they didn't mention that I was curious about is 90 day reports then? Likely not needed I guess? But would have been nice to hear it from the official

90 day reports are needed, but if you dont extend who and when will they police them ?? 

Same with TM30s tho with the new rules on TM30s being 'once per visa' and not to be redone after a hotel stay you can do one TM30 at the first day of entry and have that be valid for 5 years you remain at one address. 

23 minutes ago, wmlc said:

There is no one year reset of any clock of you never extend inside Thailand. You can simply leave at the end of each 180 day stay and then re enter to get another 180 days. You can do this for the entire 5 years without ever needing to extend the visa inside Thailand. The one year is only related to extensions meaning one extension only for every entry. 

This also has a knock on implication, which is tax related. 

If extensions are the point where revenue tries to link expats to inbound funds, possibly demanding a TTN, or even proof of returns etc.. Then by just border hopping and clock resetting of 180, you avoid all immigration interaction. 

 

On 7/18/2024 at 8:17 AM, anrcaccount said:

 

Agree LivingLOS, it is quite simple. 

 

Unlimited entries in a 5 year period. Each entry, 180 days stay,( unless you reach the end of the 5 years e.g. enter 30 days before the end of the 5 years, stay permission stamp only valid 30 days until end of the visa)

 

Each stay can be extended at local immigration(if required), for an additional 180 days. After 360 days consecutively, you would have to leave and re enter. However if you left after say 150 days, on re entry you get 180 days.  

 

Cost of extension will be 1900 as per every other extension, but has been reported at 10000, I believe this will prove to be incorrect. BKK Immigration stated extensions at 1900. 

 

Tax is a separate discussion, which should be had on separate threads. 

Nailed it.. Back while it was still guesswork... Well done 😉

2 hours ago, Lorry said:

This is the only new point in Chris Parker's latest video.

The MFA official said, requirements for extension would probably be the same as when applying for the visa.

He was honest enough to say that he can only guess. It's not in the realm of MFA, it's immigration who will decide these requirements for extension.

 

Right but it does semi rule out the idea of it being 10k to extend. It ISNT in the royal gazette, and it isnt the belief of the MFA, so theres no authority for immigration to think it now. 

It was mentioned in the initial cabinet meeting where the visa class was proposed, but a proposal isnt binding, we could have never got it.. The royal gazette is binding and makes no mention of 10k at all. 

5 hours ago, zzzzz said:

one thing no one has brought up

and one thing i am concerned with as this is very attractive 

How will immigration look at issuing this new 5 year visa and seeing the applicant has been on a yearly retirement ( or marriage)  extension for 1, 2, 5 years?

 

23 year resident.. Passport full of stamps.. marriage.. extensions.. visas.. 

First one posted online as issued 24h after it opened to evisa.. 

14 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

I would definitely not assume this.  It is unspecified how long an interval is needed after leaving the country and returning  but good bet IOs will often flag, question and even refuse entry to people whose entry history indicates long term (more than a year) residence in Thailand.  Same as they now do for visa exempt entries.  Of course possible some visa run companies will partner with a "flexible"  remote border outpost, again like with visa except entries. But this will not be risk free.

That just doesnt happen with any other VISA though does it.. 

And now visa exempt entries have become unlimited also.. So that isnt even a risk without a visa. 

You have to just come to terms with the idea they appear to have opened the floodgates. 

15 hours ago, Maestro said:

I see the requirement of documents for the 180-day extensions as the only important question remaining open with the DTV. The existing Police Order for extensions needs to be amended or replaced before the first applications are made at immigration offices.

 

Until then, it is a free for all for guesses, assumptions, speculations and expectations in this regard.

Perfect clarity.. Hat tip for being able to succinctly and accurately summarise the situation with zero ambiguity.. 

17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

About the issue of a DTV holder wanting to do subsequent 180-day in-country extensions at Thai Immigration (one per each new entry to Thailand allowed under the 5-year visa), one thing that the MFA official indicated in the video was that Thai Immigration, in addition to asking for the standard 1,900 baht extension fee each time, would also want to see documentation of eligibility for the visa extension itself each time. Even in years 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 of the original visa.

 

Unfortunately, the MFA official didn't go into any further detail about that issue... But for example, if someone gets a DTV visa in 2024 based on attending a Thai cooking class or for some medical procedure, it raises the question of whether Immigration in years 2-5 is going to be satisfied with the original DTV documentation OR whether they're then going to want to see some ongoing, then-still-current proof of eligibility.  That question wasn't addressed.

 

But, if I were a guessing / betting man, assuming the MFA official was correct about how Immigration will handle DTV visa in-country extensions, my guess would be that in years 2-5 of the DTV visa, that they're going to want to see some then still-current proof of eligibility -- not just repeating proof of some activity done back in 2024 and then not continued into the ensuing years.

 

Presumably, for in-country DTV extensions, that also would include having to each time prove the DTV holder still has the required 500K baht on deposit in a bank account somewhere (in or out of Thailand).

 

 

 

If local immigration put up too many barriers, people will just border bounce.. Its self defeating because theres a super simple alternative.