TravelerEastWest

Thanks everyone for your ideas - amazed that septic tanks have such interest.....

The septic tanks are finished - my only question was about how to fill in around the tanks.

I was not involved with the construction much at all as I often hear the phrase - "too much"...

So I am focusing my attention on the electrical system and a few other areas.

There are two possibilities:

1) The septic tanks will take two plus years before they need pumping - in which case all is well

or

2) They don't work - then we pump more often and or consider rebuilding with a better design.

TEW, your OP implied you had no experience of this type of tank, you now say you have 'a number' which is it? Are they all designed the same way, with no leech field? How often do you need to empty?

Where do your washing machines drain to? Nothing to stop you draining shower and basin waste to the same place, you could even put it on the garden, it won't be filling your grey water tank then.

Crossy,

I have a grand total of 4 all built at the same time (a couple of months ago) but until a few days ago not filled in hence this post - so the answer to your question is that before this build zero experience with this type of septic tank - at no time did I say that I had some before...

(Living in Thailand I find that one has to pick one's battles. This build was done with Thai relatives involved with giving lots of free advice and labor and chungs doing the building. Next time I will hire a civil engineer for construction supervision.)

All are designed the same way with no leech field.

My best estimate is that it will be about 3 years before they need to be emptied if we use the second chamber for shower water. If not then much longer.

The washing machine drains into empty land (we are not in a city) And has only been in use for a few days. I am planning on using a natural biodegradable soap and a new machine that will use less water and energy.

The shower water may very well end up in the garden area if I am sure that the soapy water won't be harmful - about 500 trees so far have been planted and a vegetable garden in the near future. But I will need to do composting on a large scale which is a new topic and one that will be more fun...

On a side note you will be happy to know that we have some nice Schnieder boxes for breakers and moving 3 phase power around.

You'l be surprised how fast the gray water tank will fill with your showers and washing machine draining into it. Once it is filled and the drainage is not proper it will overflow back into the first tank and both tanks will fill. Then your toilet won't flush, your septic system will not work properly and you'll have to have the tanks pumped often.

Believe me! I learned by experience. I built my house 15 years ago and the worst problem that I had was drainage. I had a proper septic tank with an overflow into a cesspoool and the gray water draining directly into the cesspool, but no overflow into a leach field. The ground is clay and after both tanks fuilled they both had to be pumped often. I finally unhooked the gray water drains to the cesspool and have them drian directly into a leach field. Everythings works fine now and I have not had to have the cesspool pumped since. The septic tank should always remain full to let the "bugs" do their job.

I appreciate the extra comments but the size of the two chambers is far bigger than what we need so is unlikely to be an issue in the near future.

We have a number of these hotel style septic tanks and none have a washing machine connected.

But more importantly I agree with the leech field comments but the septic tanks have already been built and time does not allow more construction now.

You should only consider a Daikin or Mitsubishi inverter unit - the rest are impostors who promise a lot but deliver little. I'm not going to substantiate this advice - it is just the way it is!

Carrier invented air conditioning so you may also consider them to be real, 7-11 also seems to think they are real.

When I was shopping in Bangkok for inverter air conditioners with the then new 410 environmentally friendly freeon, Carrier was the only brand I could find and they had 7 year warranties also - longer than the competition...

Over the last few years I had one problem and Carrier fixed it for free.

Last week I bought two Daiken inverter air conditioners as some say they are very quiet and I like that feature.

Lets see how they last.

Allowing the first (black water) chamber to leech to ground is most definitely not a good idea, little or no decomposition will take place, potential for polluting the ground water. The first chamber MUST be sealed so the bugs can do their work and start breaking down the effluent.

Allowing the second (grey water) chamber to leech to ground is better, but a proper leech-field is the correct way to go.

On clay, you're going to get very little soak-away effect, time for a re-think of your drain arrangements I suggest.

EDIT This page has some useful information and diagrams http://35.8.121.139/edmodule/water/wtrfrm21.htm

The first chamber is sealed with concrete my mistake in my description - apologies.

The second chamber has a concrete layer on the top, bottom and corners.

I am not overly worried about a proper leechfield at this point as the size of the two chambers is far bigger than what we need - worst case is every few years I call a pump truck...

Well it sounds fairly conventional.

Where is the outlet of the second chamber draining to? It should go to a drain field although many local systems empty into a local water course

Filling between the outer wall and the ground can be anything that will fill the gap, a good way to get rid of broken bricks, tiles etc, but do make sure the hardcore is broken small and mixed in with sand etc so it does fill the gap.

Both chambers have concrete for the corners, floor and top (two top openings one for each chamber) - everything else is two brick walls with some space between the two brick walls.

Outside the outer brick wall is empty space for 6+ inches then clay soil.

The current plan is 50 cm of sand then a mix of broken tile, brick etc with sand and soil at the top.

Both tanks will slowly flow into the ground via the permeable wall and sand/broken brick etc mix. At that is the theory.

As mentioned above the walls are not plastic or cement.

The theory behind the brick and tile pieces is that will create air space although this will also result over time in settling?

Hotel style "septic" tank - how to fill in?

Our chung came up with a plan to dig a rectangle the size of a car roughly. Note we have lots of family and house guests...

Double layer brick walls with a center wall to make two chambers the center wall has a circular hole that connects the two chambers.

There is concrete on the top and bottom with metal reenforcing. Also a small hatch that can be opened if need be.

Toilet water only goes to the first chamber, shower to the second.

This was described to me as a hotel type septic tank.

Between the outer brick wall and the earth is a gap which is going to be filled in with sand for the first 50cm.

We have lots of broken red bricks and broken floor tiles and concrete roof tiles left over from building.

(1) Can we use all the broken stuff to fill in the sides of the septic tank combined with sand and earth or should we use all sand?

(2) Has anyone used this hotel style septic tank before? Normally I read on TV about plastic or concrete ring septic tanks not much about brick and poured concrete types.

Only Inverter type aircons will really offer any cost savings.

I just bought some Samsung Smart Inverter aircons that have been on offer lately, have a look for them..

They have Smart Inverter and virus Doctor logo's.. I paid about 15K for a 9000BTU and 18K for I think a 11000BTU (including Installation) at the MALL in KORAT (POWERMALL), they were also on offer in Homepro.

because you "just bought" you have your judgment must be based on quite some experience?

an inverter aircon may or may not save on electricity. the often quoted savings of "up to 30%" can only be achieved under certain specific circumstances.

I don't know what poor circumstances are but I was in a house with old non inverter air conditioners and then changed over to new Carrier inverter air conditioners - around a 50% reduction in monthly electric bills...

Foundation design, and thus cost, is dependent on geologic conditions onsite. Talking about CM vs BKK in general terms is dangerous, as the CM area has everything from alluvial plains to mountainside rock geology. For the latter, you might need no piles, but may have to excavate rock. For the former, piles are required for one story concrete house - for a three-story concrete structure, size and number of piles increases with added loading of multi-story construction in concrete.

Which site type do you have?

We are working with clay former rice fields.

The top 1.5 meters (.5 black clay, 1 meter red mountain soil only a few rocks) is loose soil so I don't count it

Below the top 1.5 meters is solid clay and we start serious digging for the foundations there.

So for a one story building piling is not needed as we have large concrete footings.

I imagine pilings will be needed when we are ready to start taller buildings.

Is your architect & engineer advising you on this?

Precast concrete piles are normally used when building even single story concrete houses on former [flat site] rice fields in LoS, as long as there not large rocks mixed in the substrata. They're really not that expensive, and give you proper bearing capacity for building on alluvial plains such as are typical of Thailand flatlands rice field sites. There can be significant differences in capacity from one are of a site to another, which can cause differential settlement under building loading - extraordinarily bad news for concrete frame buildings. Assuredly, the local village-folk, who are evidently undaunted by their cracking and sinking homes, will tell your Thai friends/family that you are just another dumb farang wasting money driving piles.

If there is a major, long-standing developer's moobahn nearby with similar existing site conditions as yours, observe their foundations & footings and that is what you'll likely need for a proper foundation system - if you're building similar construction & geometry to theirs. Risk = reward, so if you are willing to risk your structure, want to save some money, and everything turns out well... it's all good. For me, I recommend hiring an architect who brings along an engineer.

Yes, our engineer, architect, draftsman & chung (all local) all agree that no pilings are needed as well as the Chung at the local Tessabon where we got our building permit.

Apparently in Chiang Mai where we are no pilings are normal for one floor buildings. I do see some cracks in local buildings but no sinking. I also spoke with a friend (unrelated to the architect and builder etc) who is a civil engineer educated overseas who said pilings are not needed and not typically what causes cracks in floors and walls in Chiang Mai he said that from his observations it is poor building techniques.

Also pilings would not be cheap compared to our building costs without them. Perhaps adding 7% - I spoke both with builders and directly with piling makers. Note the piling makers could do the work for around 40% less than general contractors.

I remember years ago when Soy milk came on the market and the propaganda machine started the publicity , then the tabloids took up the (paid) publicity and the whole world was drinking the stuff until people started getting sick and some folk actually dies from it and the government stepped in and told people to drink it moderately, personally i hate the taste and don't drink it, but why don't you give it a try, research the product for yourself first to see whether it suits your needs. (This was in Sydney by the way.)

Is someone dying from soy milk a myth or a documented fact?

Please post the link to prove the death as it sounds unrealistic...

And is there anything that is not best in moderation?

Lactosoy could be a good mix for you at a reasonable price if that is what you are looking for.

I read a link above and it did not seem to show much against soy milk only maybes, in certain cases... In the past i have never seen true negatives about soy milk. There may be new studies out there...

I am a vegetarian (for no special reason) so I eat tofu and drink sugar free soy milk.

The pros of getting a complete vegetarian protein outweigh whatever cons there may be for soy milk.

Sure there are rude shop keepers etc in Thailand but is the percentage different from other countries?

To me a bigger problem as it is much more common is lazy staff....

Foundation design, and thus cost, is dependent on geologic conditions onsite. Talking about CM vs BKK in general terms is dangerous, as the CM area has everything from alluvial plains to mountainside rock geology. For the latter, you might need no piles, but may have to excavate rock. For the former, piles are required for one story concrete house - for a three-story concrete structure, size and number of piles increases with added loading of multi-story construction in concrete.

Which site type do you have?

We are working with clay former rice fields.

The top 1.5 meters (.5 black clay, 1 meter red mountain soil only a few rocks) is loose soil so I don't count it

Below the top 1.5 meters is solid clay and we start serious digging for the foundations there.

So for a one story building piling is not needed as we have large concrete footings.

I imagine pilings will be needed when we are ready to start taller buildings.

Wow - what great responses - I am very thankful gentlemen - I feel like you have given me an early Christmas present.

This project is for a driveway that will have very limited use and my budget is as low as possible that will get the job done if it starts to crack within one year - not OK - if it starts to crack in 3 or 4 years then OK.

One other thought I want my small kids to be able to ride their bikes on this driveway. So only gravel alone might not work?

Note building is going on now with lots of concrete trucks etc so the current "driveway" is quite hard. the ground is a mix of black clay and red mountain earth.

The weaker the Thai Baht, the more Foreign Tourists will come here and spend money to keep Thai Nationals Employed.

Plus the weaker Thai baht means lots more exports again keeping workers employed.

The weaker Thai baht encourages expats to live in Thailand.

The moisture has to leach out. I'd give it a month, unless you like painting and want to do it again.

You should also apply a coat of sealer to the render prior to painting - this is standard practice back home but I don't know if it's done here.

I am not overly concerned the contractor would paint again not me... smiling.

Thank you!

What should the cost be of a very basic concrete driveway 200 meters long?

Two weeks is appropriate at this time of the year as the weather is cool and dry. A month may be needed during the rainy season.

Interesting that is exactly what the contractor said.

Someone else told me when the walls are dry they will be white.

After the walls are finished how long do you have to wait to paint?

I ask because the paint shop (ICI Paint) says one month, while the contractor says more like two weeks as he knows when the paint is dry enough.

Why would you change 1.5 to 1.8 in your calculations?

Statman78,

You have received lots of good advice about work permits and visas etc on this thread.

Enough to get you thinking.

Here is another thought:

1) If you are an employee you will need to pay social security taxes in the US unless you are paying them in Thailand. Thai social security as I recall is lower.

2) If you work for a large company you are most likely going to be offered what has already been mentioned an "equalization package" US CPAs at large firms are good at this and your company will typically pay for everything.

3) If your company is small and leaving you to take care of everything - find a small American CPA firm that specializes in Expats and a small Thai CPA firm.

4) Unless your company is paying for school expenses as well as transportation and housing etc 50.000 baht will not be anywhere near enough to live on.

Costing this year single storey THB 6,000 sqm, 2 Storey THB 9,500 sqm. Basic Thai rooms, in this case was 50% more per sqm. Approx same cost with three quotes.

Very, interesting!

I had no idea that the cost goes up for each additional floor.

In our case the roof is quite expensive so I thought there might be savings there...

Actually the one floor example does not have a kitchen and the 3 floor example will also not have a kitchen. (There will be a separate open air type kitchen eating area outside.)

The one floor example has large footings but no pilings.

The number of bathrooms per floor will be about the same.