simple1

RIP and condolences to family and friends, we won’t jump to any conclusions over the cause of the young men’s sad deaths, only white powder stuff found in their room and no one knows what it is doesn’t mean a thing in Thailand anyone could have planted it in the room if they had been snorting / taking anything I am sure they would have finished it off and not left it lying around in the room. For people to find.

You obviously know nothing about drug use.

Perhaps they bought a few grams for personal use. If the news report is correct, they would have cut a few lines for ingestion (probably snorting) say a half gram so unused amount would still be in the room. Even in Western countries there are cases of experienced users dying in clusters from overdose if a purer batch of heroin is imported. Also users die in Western countries when heron is mixed with chemicals for street users. In any case combining alcohol and heroin use can be lethal; as happened to a friend of mine. Assuming the drug was heroin, once snorted the rush will be quick leaving the user incapacitated for a while or as in this case, dead.

. I understand the Australian government definition of poverty is family earnings at or below 50% of the median

A peculiar definition based purely on relative terms with no absolute acceptable norm......meaning that unless there were amazing equality there would always be "poor" people.

Forgive the off topic comment, but any government will need to draw a "poverty line" for the purpose of data analysis for input to the development and costings of policy to address poverty related issues, policy to assist migrating poor families to the middle class strata etc. You may already be across this, but Wikipedia provides a good overview of this topic at:

http://en.wikipedia....verty_threshold

Now she doesn't have to pay back the debt, but will need to look over her shoulder! wouldn't like to be in her shoes

Numbers here suggesting 8% of population below the poverty line as of 2008.

http://www.indexmund...?v=69&c=th&l=en

Do you have the Thai government monetary definition of poverty? A few weeks back the Australian government reported that 8% of children in the populace lived below the poverty line. I understand the Australian government definition of poverty is family earnings at or below 50% of the median income. Total population below the poverty line as of 10/2012 was 2.2 million, that's around 10% of the population. You would make the assumption poor Australians would have relatively better access to reasonable housing, quality health care and education, so cannot make a direct comparison.

Personally it doesn't bother me what another falang thinks about the background my Thai partner. However, some are ignorant enough to make a comment in a bar, such as the individual who said to me your wife must of worked as a BG for a long time after overhearing us talking in English. I quietly informed him we had been living together in an English speaking society for many years and did not need his deep insight into Thai women.

What does annoy me is racism and this was exposed to my Thai wife during our 17 years in Australia and was very upsetting to her.

Has any adult sex worker ever been punished by Thai law for recieving payment for sex?

That's practically a monthly event in Pattaya, the BiB getting their tea allowance from the trade at Beach Road. Reported as being charged for prostitution. Usually Uzbek or some such.

The news reports sometimes call it a charge of being a nuisance or prostitution.

What the official police reports call it may be something else.

What the law calls is may be yet another thing.

According to the Thai law it seems they are not getting charged for prostitution, but this:

"Section 5. Any person who, for the purpose of prostitution, solicits, induces, introduces herself or himself to, follows or importunes a person in a street, public place or any other place in an open and shameless manner or causes nuisance to the public, shall be liable to a fine not exceeding one thousand Baht."

http://www.ilo.org/d...63/E96THA01.htm

Has any "john" ever been arrested, in the entire history of Thailand, for paying for consentual sex with an adult prostitute?

In Pattaya, the Beach Road freelance sex workers are arrested, registered. fined a 100 baht and then released, usually in batches of around 50 people - this is practically a weekly event and makes no difference whatsoever. Just a complete waste of time for "cleaning up" the image of Pattaya as a sex tourist destination.

Seems many here don't see past their noses to the big picture and instead like to blame "natives" for their own management problems.

the word "benefit" is often bandied about as if it is some kind of get-out clause - a blanket criticism for anyone who is not as well off as thew poster.

Natives of Thailand really don't manage 7-11 or Tesco. I think the Corporate Executives should certianly be the first to step in line in giving a minimum of 300 baht a day for manual labors, they have the MOST money compared to the local 'native' companies so they can AFFORD to pay the Thai people more money! Most of you here lack "Empathy"..

If the local executive wanted to lobby the H.O. in the UK to increase staff wages beyond minimum wage they would have to present a business case. Let's suppose the business case states an increase if staff productivity; this will lead to less workers on the pay role due to staff attrition. So what would you prefer, over staffing at minimum wage or less staff earning more?

I simply just cannot understand everyone here! Hoping & dying with their heart to see this rich young man do hard prison time!?? Is it because he is so rich and you are not!?! Is it because you are sour grapes and self righteous?! Why, there are so many more morons, goons, dirty rotten scoundrels and rascals out there than this young man who owned a Ferrari and you don't!! Why wish so much for him to be put away to do hard time? Knowing very well, it will kill him!

Well, look in the mirror, you are no better off being a sour grapes and a hypocrite!

I wish with all my heart that he will repent; being his first time and not have to do hard time. Maybe some social obligations for him to perform but definitely not hard time. That will break him for sure. I am nowhere as rich as him but being in his shoes, that will kill me!

Forgive him and may God Bless Him.

As this man killed a person in a hit and run, family tried to set up a member of staff to take responsibility and has on numerous occasions failed to appear before police, please let us know why he deserves compassion. Going to prison may indeed not be very constructive for him, but when has he or his family showed any contrition other than paying obligatory compensation for the victims family. Many are increasingly appalled in the manner that members of Thai society take no responsibility for their actions and use corruption as their tool in trade to avoid punishment, as this family has tried to do.

If the family announced a well funded program e.g. drug and alcohol rehabilitation unit/s with professional staff and housing it would at a minimum show some concern for the less fortunate in Thai society. As far as I am aware nothing the family has done to date sincerely demonstrates any act of concern or taking responsibility other than the usual media rituals.

OP: are you referring to a credit card or a debit card? If debit card withdrawal exceeds the daily withdrawal limit on your Thai bank account likely you will need to provide your passport as ID. I've had my Thai 5 year driving license declined as prove of ID.

Feedback? No - access English language media - online and print for local and international news. Exactly what do Australians have to say to Asia that is original and constructive?

Personally, I must admit not that interested to socialise & met and talk with other Australians in Thailand, in most cases they retain the same attitudes, interests & opinions as when living in Australia so why bother? Sorry...

Whinging or complaining in Thailand ain't going to cut it; the only and anyway to stop this tourists being scammed is to educate them before arriving. It's high time government agencies from the various countries started to look after their citizens. The very least it would make a great advertising campaign by any other country with identical tourist attractions to capture the market. A negative campaign against Thailand and its many many scams and corruption would go a long way to fixing a few problems. Thailand's economy relies on the tourist dollar and without it they are are up shit creek without a paddle. This is far from Thai-ness its plain commonsense and smart-ness.

The embassies are well aware of this and are not doing enough it will take some tourists life to be lost by stabbing or gun shot by these mafias running the beach before they will take strong enough action.

Embassies cannot interfere in the domestic affairs of another country, even if it crime related, but can put diplomatic pressure on law enforcement agencies. Foreign governments can and do provide travel advise; an example from the Australian Smartraveller site that talks to the risks of jet ski hire is below. The Smartraveller website is advertised in the Australian media so Australians, as an example, cannot say they were unaware of potential risks when traveling overseas.

Australian travellers continue to report harassment and threats of violence by jet ski operators on tourist beaches, particularly in Phuket, Pattaya, Koh Samui and Koh Phangan. Many travellers have reported that, after returning hired jet skis, they have been confronted by gangs claiming that the tourist damaged the jet ski. There have been reported instances of such gangs threatening violence, including at knifepoint, if a large sum of money in compensation for the alleged damage is not paid. Australians hiring jet skis should check the jet ski for damage, including underneath, before riding and take photographs of the jet ski that may be helpful in the resolution of disputes.

Operators may request your passport as a deposit or guarantee before hiring jet skis or motorbikes. If there is a dispute about damage to a rented jet ski or motorbike, rental operators may try to keep your passport until they receive compensation. Passports are valuable documents that should be appropriately protected. We recommend that Australians do not provide passports as deposits or guarantees.

Call me old fashioned but I don't think any female should be walking home alone at 3am in any country...

No, this is 2012, not 1950. We don't call views like this "old fashioned," that's far too generous. We call them what they are: sexist and indicative of your misogyny and disdain toward women, masquerading as a desire to "protect" women or as "concern" about them. Really, you just want to keep them in what you see as "their place," and deny to them the respect and dignity you show males.It's no surprise that people like you would want to live in (or frequently visit) Thailand, where your antiquated, outdated, sexist views will be not only tolerated, but will no doubt earn you a pat on the back by Thai men, most of whom treat women like they're worth about as much as dog feces. If you spouted off outdated, reactionary views like this in the West, any number of women (and a few men) would tear you a new one, and rightly so.

A completely opinionated, twisted & cynical PC response. Next time a female is attacked when demonstrating her rights to walk alone, based upon your PC view of the world, in an known area for muggings I'm sure she will not thank you for your advise.

_{yes I agree, I get cut up all the time by thai MB riders trying to sqeeze into a space that isn't there when riding my big bike, they just need to get in front of me no matter how, but while driving a car it is better to leave the gap and expect someone to fill it, if the OP had hit the motorbike he would most likely have been blamed even though technically he did nothing wrong - Thai or falang the outcome would have been the same.}

I'm the OP and in the specific instance I quoted, the western driver cut across the front of my car, leaving just about zero time and space to brake and avoid. I know rear ending another motorist you are automatically at fault. T boning someone cutting across the front of your vehicle in heavy traffic at a 45% angle is all together different.

OP: I don't believe to many Thai's will appreciate being compared to a communist state, especially given their prior military involvement in South Korea and Vietnam. Given your previous posts about the exploitation of workers in Thailand, maybe a better example for you would be saying Thailand is an example of unfettered capitalism.

As stated in post #15 Cambodia is not exactly the land of milk and honey for human rights and abuse of power. In my opinion the major issue for Thailand is institutionalised corruption and using libel and defamation laws to suppress openness. On a more positive note their is a lot of international pressure on Thailand to get it's act together.

To use the example of bringing a bong (?) over the border for comparison between Thailand & Cambodia is crass.

OP you need to be specific in your area of expertise in IT and management. The large MNC's IT vendors have offices in Thailand, and some have foreigner managed partners such as SAP, but Thai's are the doers. I know of one foreigner owned IT provider in Pattaya "Liberty computers", again staff will be Thai.

Most of the larger IT companies will have their Asian regional H.O. in Singapore or H.K.

I'm not taking sides here and I believe the OP did nothing wrong according to his understanding of the road laws here and in the west, but I will say this - I have noticed that when riding in a Thai driven car as passenger many times - driven a car here many times - and the owner and rider of a bike, thai car drivers tend to give a little more room to MB's on roads here than falangs, there are hundreds of bikes darting around you all the times and adopting the Thai car driving style of leaving plenty of room for bikes is advisable - I've even been in a car with a falang driver who constantly complained and got frustrated at MB's going up the side or both sides and in front and openly venting his anger generally at these f'ing pests getting in his way, lesson drive slowly leave room and tolerate the the little buzzing 2 wheeled things that are coming from everwhere all of the time.

I concur with your comments regards being aware at all times of motorbikes whilst driving and not over reacting. However, it's been mentioned in other topics the danger posed is the lack of spacial awareness by many motorbike drivers; this is a real challenge in avoiding accidents.

Whenever you come across a luckless Farang bleating about some Thai woman robbing him - fist ask him if his relationship with the woman who robbed him started with a finacial transaction

I don't believe I ever had a relationship with a woman that didn't start with a financial transaction. Buying them drinks, buying them dinner, paying for movie or concert tickets, etc.

Good on yer, if you can get your leg over for zero outgoing.

Good to see that you are prepared to make a speculative investment

This actually is amazing when you consider that it follows on the heels of the virtual carbon copy incident in Phuket where Australian woman Michelly Smith was fatally wounded.

The two culprits as I recall were rounded up, charged, tried, convicted & sentenced to life in prison all within 6 weeks of the event.

One would have hoped and thought that such events would deter these desperados from such crimes but it seems sadly that isn't the case,... or maybe in the case of the Phuket assailants it was just their "having bad luck" that the victim died.

So the logic is probably something like:

"Victim dies,- that's very bad luck for bag grabber/slasher"

"Victim does not die,- that's very bad luck for victim but the grabber/slasher unlikely to be caught as investigation into crime will be weak to zero!"

No CCTV coverage and no witnesses of the crime; so extremely tough to identify the criminals. On the plus side there is a news report that the police paid for the victims medical care.

The vast majority of loans in Thailand are low or no interest share loans. A group of Thai people band together and pool resources. When one wants a loan the others make the loan. Teachers, doctors, government or bar workers all have these share arrangements. 50% of the economy is off the books guys what do you expect. These are not the loan shark loans but of course those too exist. Then too are the Chinese family loans to buy multi billion dollar hotels.

I had forgotten about this aspect of no or low interest Thai loans, saw it in operation amongst Thai women when living in Australia.

I you were taking a guess, what proportion of westerners driving motorcycles in Thailand do you suspect of not have a motorcycle licence in their home country? Do you think that farangs driving motorcycles for the first time in Thailand is widespread? Generally I would say that many of the most experienced drivers in the UK are motorcyclists.

A guess would be that Westerners driving 250CC motorbikes and above would be experienced. Those driving basically scooters/mopeds would be inexperienced and using them due to lack of parking and road congestion around Pattaya; maybe cost is a factor.

Australia is looking at legalising cannabis and ecstacy, administered by the Government. A more sensible idea, because cannabis and ecstacy have medical benefits and then the quality and purity are not a health issue to the community. People use drugs because they want to feel good or pain-free and always will. Eventually Governments will work out, that only legalisation and state control will fix the health and crime problem

You are slightly wrong there. A number of petitions have been put forward by drug addicts to have drugs legalised in Australia. Australia has no plans to legalise drugs but it has looked at the option at decriminalising the use of cannabis. First time offenders (use/posses cannabis) will not be charged with a criminal offence but may receive an infringment notice (fine) 2nd and subsequent offenders may be charged with a summary offence and court appearance but not an indictable offence as it is at present. Offenders cultivating and trafficking will still face criminal prosecution.

Australia21 are all ex-senior Government officials and may well have a lot of sway in Government policy. Ex-Army Chief of Defence, Ex-State Premiers, Ex-Federal Police Chief - check out the board: professors, doctors - all of them trying to create a new system of cannabis and ecstacy delivery to people with medical conditions.

Australia21 would need Federal political will and State & Territory agreement to implement their recommendations. Can just about guarantee if the Liberals get into power in 2013 is not going to happen. Even if Labor gets re-elected I strongly doubt they would support the de-criminlisation of ecstasy due to the previously strong reaction from the general public to some deaths in Australia from ecstasy use.

I simply do not agree with this; the victims deserve to be heard, it's an important part of the healing process in child abuse cases. And yes, anyone involved in deliberate cover-ups should face criminal charges.

I never said the so called victims shouldn't be heard. But where have they been? Wait until their so called abuser is dead and then accuse him when he has no way to defend himself. Why didn't they come forward 5 or 10 years ago when I'm pretty sure somebody would have listened. The guy is dead. His crimes, if any, died with him. The accusers had their chance and blew it. Move on. Investigate the living by all means but leave the dead alone.

In the OP it states "that police and the Crown Prosecution Service had dropped inquiries into abuse allegations against Savile". The factual reasons for this decision has yet to be established, so before criticising the victims wait for the outcome of the current investigations.

But some victims did come forward at the time, especially some of the girls at the "naughty girls homes", who he would take for rides in his Rolls Royce, park up and then abuse them. They were put in the punishment area of the homes, " how dare you say such wicked things about Uncle Jimmy, who does so much good here with his fund raising", etc etc. Likewise the patients in psychiatric hospitals who were his victims, would they have been believed? Their word against a "National Treasure" who raised lots of money for these institutions, there was only ever going to be one winner there. Lets not forget he was given his own accommodation in these hospitals and children's homes, despite rumours and first hand reports of his behaviour being common knowledge. That is a scandal that can't be blamed on the BBC. And yes, investigating police officers on several occasions received orders from on high to drop their investigations, much to their disgust, because a prosecution " would not be in the national interest". He wasn't the only one either. Similar investigations against another " national treasure", who coincidentally like Savile also has close ties to the 'Great and Good', a certain 'Peter Pan of Pop', were dropped despite much evidence including photographs, for the same reasons, ie, it would not be in the national interest to prosecute. Like Savile he will be safe until he dies. But who is protecting these abusers, and why? That is the real scandal here.

Did not know of the info above. Given the usually high level of professionalism and dedication by UK police in sex abuse cases you pose a very good question

Pretty tough Russian woman. I give her credit for resisting. I would guess this is not so different than in Russia and she was prepared. There has been quite a Russian take over of Pattaya. Maybe they can battle the local crime there.

Sorry, cannot agree - do not resist - she was lucky not to have been killed, accidentally or deliberately

The whole discussion on the average level of household debt in Thailand is not provable. The vast majority of Thai's do not pay income tax. Pay slips/company returns are required for around six months to obtain a loan for a car/house etc so naturally only those who pay tax would be available for data analysis.

An example; a member of my Thai family has a business moving goods/people around Thailand with his pickup; doesn't have a company set up, doesn't pay tax, so couldn't get a loan for a new pickup. His monthly gross income is around 35k. However, a member of family who is a teacher obtained a loan on a 120k baht deposit (money from selling his old pickup, did not have to provide a savings history) & the monthly repayment is 9.4k baht a month. Note her teachers monthly wage is 12k a month with an annual bonus of one month salary. She doesn't pay any rent as she lives in her family house.

As already mentioned Thai's will take out loans on the black money market. An example of cost is 30% a month (interest only-no capital repayment) if no gold/chanote etc as security. Another example black money loan with security is around 10% a month (interest only-no capital repayment). This is in Pattaya, maybe different rates in other provinces.

But my peaceful bigotry doesn't include murdering those I disagree with. When something they do offends me, I don't rush out and kill somebody/anybody, who cares. Cartoons don't drive me to burning mosques, and I don't believe that they are worth less than shit on my shoe because they believe some stupid, unprovable myth.

BTW have you ever wondered when the great voice in the sky was handing down rules on eating habits, the evils of charging interest, putting a bag over your wife's head and all the other <deleted>, why he didn't mention that sex with children was a big no-no? It seems it was culturally OK at the time, and god didn't see it as a problem either? Or maybe somebody just made it all up to suit themselves?

There is no such thing as peaceful bigotry.

Really? There's ample examples of murderous bigotry though, isn't there, and most of it is related to religion.

Yes, but you described yourself as a "peaceful bigot" The words of bigots lead to fear, hatred & violence. If you do not agree, let's agree to disagree.