Tejas

The worst thing Thailand could do is to think this is all a short term problem (e.g., caused by some unusual weather related event like El Nino that will soon go away).

El Nino is not an 'unusual weather related event'.

First. it is a cyclic event. occurring every few years.

Second, it is not 'weather-related' in the sense that weather causes it. Rather, it is the other way round; El Nino drives weather patterns.

Third, measurements from many places agree that, as far as this cycle goes, El Nino is fading quite quickly, and hence good rainfall will return to Thailand sooner rather than later.

El Nino is "unusual" in that it does not happen each year.

El Nino is cyclic (we agree). But its intensity and frequency appears to be changing. Why? The MOD said "don't talk about it."

El Nino is weather related (we disagree)............weather (climate change) does impact it (e.g., water temperature impacts it and the heat content of the oceans is increasing dramatically). El Nino also impacts weather (we agree).

El Nino is fading rapidly (we agree). But the important point is that it will come back. And its frequency and intensity appears to be changing. Why? The MOD said "don't talk about it."

Another important point is that it is only one component of the drought problem.

The point I was trying to make is simple: It would be a grave mistake for the Thai govt. to think that the drought problem is a temporary problem caused by El Nino alone.

Hopefully, other posters who are interested in solutions will follow what I posted earlier.

It has been said before , that individuals working to improve their lot as far as water conservation is concerned , is admirable but has many down-sides , the whole crop growing population working TOGETHER in a planned effort , would be a huge step forward in containing a huge misuse of the water that is available at any given time of the year . The only problem I can see with that probability , is that the rich would have to give up their money grabbing ways to enable the poor to benefit , but the poor also need to put in some effort instead of merely looking for handouts that seldom help , other than to placate their stomachs for a short time , they need to be shown how to spend money wisely to improve the results of their labour ,as apposed to material benefits such as a new TV or a truck , those extras will become affordable at a later date , but then again , many want them NOW .

It should be pointed out that droughts and other severe climate events are increasing worldwide.

This is happening at a time when population levels are soaring, putting upward demand on crop production and water use.

You can see the negative results all over. There are also positive results.

Some countries have started shifting to drought tolerant species of crops.

Others are engaged in drip irrigation.

There are likely numerous ways to reduce water use devoted to agricultural production........Thailand should consider them.

And, as stated, I think Thailand needs to shift its economy away from agriculture to something else.

The worst thing Thailand could do is to think this is all a short term problem (e.g., caused by some unusual weather related event like El Nino that will soon go away).

This challenge is not going away any time soon, at least not in the long run............probably not in our lifetimes.

To make it go away too many things have to happen related to population and energy, among other things.

The Mekong is, indeed, in serious trouble................virtually all of the major rivers in Asia are in serious trouble. And the reason is obvious to responsible scientists. There was a thread on TV about the Mekong and dams (think Lao Po could have something to say about it). Proper construction and design is no doubt part of the solution.

I want to add something about Thais and water conservation. All of the houses where I live have either tin or tile roofs. All of the families capture rainwater that falls on the roofs...........that water is directed into clay pots (some huge). That water is then used for many purposes.......often to water plants during the dry season. That is positive.

In addition, where I live farmers have dug and are digging deep water ponds..........fairly small ponds that fill up during the rainy season. These ponds are not connected to any riverine system, so they are totally dependent on rainwater. The ponds are used for crops (e.g., sugar cane, corn, mansaparang/cassava, rice). Again, this is positive.

BUT, the stagnant ponds breed mosquitoes and that is a negative. It is easy to predict that if this solution is increased in number, mosquito born diseases will increase in Thailand.....and I am virtually certain this is about to happen.

I see a lot of farmers draining the local rivers for crop production (sugarcane and corn and cassava and in some cases rice). This year the rivers almost dried up completely. The situation has become dangerous..........one small step away from disaster.

So, one the one hand, Thais are doing some positive things in terms of water management. On the other hand, they are doing some negative things.

The negative things seem directly related to crop production and the need for income.

So, perhaps one solution to the water problem in Thailand is to grow less crops.

It might be prudent to radically reduce exports of certain crops.

To do that, you have to introduce alternatives to farming..........different types of jobs (people need incomes to survive).

I still believe the ultimate solution is local/regional sustainability........and that means creating balance between resources and population levels..........it also means doing something about our fossil fuel energy problem.

All things being equal, fewer people means less stress on the water system. But that is not always so evident. The main reason is exports. If Thailand ups its exports of food crops, it will increase the water problem. Still, this scenario involves people.............the exports are going to people outside of Thailand, so the population problem remains.

[That may not be clear, but imagine only a handful of people living in Thailand............they control a handful of companies that grow and export food products...........all of the land is used for exports...........the water system continues to be in grave danger even without an overpopulation problem. In this case, the overpopulation problem is external (the consumers outside of Thailand), not internal (the producers inside of Thailand)]

where are you feeling the effects?

I love chili...........curious if you used beef, and if so, Thai beef or imported beef?

Did you use a spice mix imported from the West? Local spices?

I have never had a good bowl of chili in Thailand

I have eaten chili that was supposed to be "award winning" and Tequilla Reef in Pattaya

Songkran would be a good place to start. Hardly a good way of encouraging people to respect and protect water when the national festival throws millions of good litres of drinkable water down the drain.

It is no more logical than covering a whole country in the desert with snow just to have a white Xmas.

Thanks............it looks like we might just be allowed to discuss the topic.

Given that SongKran only takes place over a limited time period, it probably only has a small impact on Thailand's water supply.

It might, however, have a temporary negative impact in certain cities that have a serious water supply problem.

If Thais waster water like that every day...........well.........no doubt that would be a HUGE problem.

Americans most likely waste more water each day (all things being equal.....controlling for different population sizes) washing our cars.

But you made another point.............Songkran might have a symbolic effect that is not good for the country (encouraging people to waste water).

IMHO, that is not the case. The symbolism of Songkran is "purity" and "fun" and "party time" and "wash away the bad stuff."

I am not sure if it is really teaching Thais to be wasteful of water.

Does Halloween in the USA teach kids to love candy and eat huge amounts of it?

Maybe it does..........not sure.

No way I would do it again (i.e., retire here). It was a bad decision that I made a long time ago.

The country has deteriorated, especially over the past ten years.

And the heat is getting worse each year.............same for air pollution.

It seems clear that the govt. no longer wants us here..........that is reflected in the anti-foreigner visa rule changes that have taken place over the past ten years.

I think Thailand is an interesting place to visit..............but other places are starting to look more attractive to me.

That is, of course, my view. Others love it here.

As has been said many times it's simple maths.

You have 100 tourists visit a town where there's only one hotel, one restaurant and one bar.

All three businesses are thriving and making a fortune.

You have the same 100 tourists go to the next town where there are 100 hotels, 100 restaurants and 100 bars.

Nobody is thriving, nobody is making money.

Simples.

Makes perfect sense to me.

There is an oversupply of virtually everything in relationship to customers...........that goes for malls, restaurants, food stands, bars, condos/hotels.

Developers grossly miscalculated the value of their investments.

Now, some investments are dying........others are never getting off the ground.

And now a word from the Love Pattaya or Leave it Dreamers

now its obvious that he or she is not reading any of the posts and just goes of on a rant.

The only thing that is obvious is that you are a Troll who can't respond to the topic or what is being posted using reason.

Posting pseudo-scientific garbage taken from Exxon-Mobile funded (global warming is a myth) websites is not a valid response.

Posting elements of truth (1%) and ignoring the bulk of the scientific information that disagrees with your position (the remaining 99%) is not science.

You remind me of a crooked car dealer. Is that what you do for a living?

No need to answer. This will be my last response to you

Saltwater dominates the planet. Most of the fresh water on the planet is:

1) locked up in glaciers (that are melting)........and the water eventually makes its way to the ocean where it mixes with saltwater.

And 'locked up' in humans too.

Each human body is somewhere between 40% & 60% water. If the average adult human weighs about 75kg, that's between 30 & 45 litres of water in each human body, 'locked up' until it's death.

Since the world population is increasing, the water 'locked up' in human bodies is also increasing.

There are too many trolls here that can't focus on the subject.

Thailand has a severe drought problem and something must be done about it.

I have put forth solutions.............the trolls have put forth nonsense.

There really is no point in responding to nonsense.

"I am happy to see that some of the English teachers are actually qualified. Well done."

I report all of them for working illegally

Rainfall has dropped dramatically in recent years, The Rainy seasons have not been very rainy. And water conservation in Thailand is bad

You mean they have water conservation? Never seen it.

Same with electricity or gasoline.

or conservation.....

As stated in an earlier thread, virtually every Thai house in the hinterlands has giant water containment "jars." They capture rain water and use it.......more than I can say for most American households.

For those who would like some scientific info. on this subject from real scientists, go here (but you need to subscribe):

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....eshwater-crisis

Back to Thailand......the drought is real.

Part of it is due to climate.........part of it is due to agricultural practices and consumption in general..........and a very large part of it has to do with overpopulation (please don't tell me again that Thailand does not have a population problem because its fertility level is down.........thanks.)

A good example is Pattaya-Jomtien. It is experiencing a major drought.......local reservoirs are drying up.

City officials are very concerned about it. Global warming and increased evaporation aside, a major reason for the "drying up" is overpopulation and associated over-consumption.

There are simply too many people confined in a small area. It is an example of poor city planning..........unsustainable development (profits before sanity.........to hel_l with future generations).

No doubt the solution the city officials will come up with will be the same old solution: build more reservoirs (an expensive solution).

No person will dare state that the place is overpopulated and development should be curtailed (no more concrete coffin buildings).

Many of the current water problems could be solved if the size of the human population was much less than it is today.

One more thing about glaciers discussed in an earlier post............glaciers feed many of the worlds most important riverine systems.

These systems are critical for agricultural production. The glaciers are melting. That is not good news. It is not clear how much of the water loss from the melting glaciers will be offset by rainfall..........or if it will be.

Again, we are playing with fire. Water is our most precious resource.........not gold, not diamonds. It is not something to play around with.

This has all been done before here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Insects-Drou...-T-t364541.html

however as my prime interest in water until recent years has been the extraction of fish and there appears to be some experts here I will ask a couple of questions:

Isnt water a recyclable resource?

It falls as rain then either evapourates up again to once more fall as rain or is used by plants and animals before being released to also rise as evapouration or soaks into the ground to become reusable subteranian water.

In a warmer climate shouldnt there be more evapouration and therefore more rain?

What with supposed melting of ice caps retreat of glaciers (stored water) shouldnt there be more available?

My take on it is that about the same amount of water is falling as rain only in different places because of the El Nilo - La Nineo effect on global weather patterns.

A comment on Global warming ahh sorry climate change now (allows a dollar each way):

Saw an interesting debate about a week back on TV where a Brit, Lord Montague I think, took on a couple of Yanks on the subject. The lord produced several peer reviewed studies that showed that climate change was not caused by man but was natural these were actual in the air and on the ground studies where as most studies that predict climate change are computer models. The Lord challanged the other 2 to produce studies to back their point and they could not.

He also stated that CO2 was not a harmful gas as without it plants could not live and that concentrations 1000 time more than present would not harm the planet.

Someone on the other thread worked out that at the present stated level of warming it would take 384 years (think thats the number) for the temp in TL to rise 1dc.

In NZ the Govt is trying to show how green they are by introducing carbon taxes they tried to introduce a tax on farmers for animal emmissions, Fart Tax would you believe, they got laughted out on that one.

They also pay for the planting of trees but only pine trees it would seem, forestry companies plant the trees get payment then in 25 years cut them down for timber and paper, replant and go back to the trough for another go.

Have a friend who has several acres of native bush he has put into a covenant so it can never be cut down, he gets nothing for this but if he felled the lot and planted pines he would get paid???????????

Saltwater dominates the planet. Most of the fresh water on the planet is:

1) locked up in glaciers (that are melting)........and the water eventually makes its way to the ocean where it mixes with saltwater.

2) too deep to access (it is well known that underground aquifers that are accessible are being depleted at a faster rate than they are being replenished...a major and growing problem that will lead to water wars in the future)

The amount of freshwater that is readily accessible is small in comparison to the total amount of freshwater on the planet. Still, it is a huge amount......enough for over 10 billion people.

The "fresh water problem" is, in large part, about the fact that it is unevenly distributed on the planet.......so, it becomes a distribution problem, getting it from where it is in large supply to where it is needed but in small supply.

The other problem is what I said above: freshwater from glaciers becoming salt water (put saltwater on your crops and let me know how they do).

Some countries are producing fresh water from salt water (e.g., Oman), but it is expensive given our current energy platform.

Another problem is that as the heat content of the planet increases evaporation increases........yes, rainfall takes place.........the problem is that climate change is disrupting the system/pattern of rainfall (wet zones turning into dry zones; dry zones turning into wet zones).

Snowfall patterns are also changing.

Agricultural areas that are productive now because of a longstanding, predictable weather patterns are undergoing change.

Nobody knows for certain (with 100% certainty) what will happen to our food production system due to climate change.

But, it is certain that change is taking place at a fast and furious pace.

In effect, we are playing with fire.........seems to me like we are dumping gasoline on the fire and refusing to acknowledge the existence of fire (crazy behavior?).

There are other issues..........when rainfall patterns change (when climate changes) ecosystems change....these changes impact species (organisms that attack wheat, rice, corn, etc), diseases (e.g., diseases related to mosquitoes like dengue fever.........an epidemic in Thailand right now), among other things.

By the way, FOOD IS IMPORTANT.

The current drought is sending us messages: Water is critical..........food is critical.........climate change is real...........do something about the problem before it is too late.

Your comments are like rays of light, for my part.

And thanks for listing population growth in first-place.

I'm forced to wonder: whatever happened to the concept of ZPG (zero population growth)?

Has it been deemed to be incompatible with capitalism masquerading as free trade?

Hope to read more of your posts.

Thank you.....really, it is nice to know intelligent life exits on the planet

The trolls on this thread.........wow...........what can you say about them?

It is a good argument for population control

ZPG is a great concept....fertility levels (almost worldwide) have been dropping for some time.

But that just means more (massive) annual growth. Why? Because, as you know, we have billions of people on the planet reproducing.

Even if they have two children, the world population grows significantly, adding to all of our woes.

You already understand the main question people should ask with regard to population reduction: Is population reduction incompatible with present day global capitalism?

Yes........it is..........and that is never talked about--especially in political circles--because it is "taboo."

Why taboo?

1) Because too many people are blinded by emotion/religion and can't grasp reason/science.

2) The ruling elite (those that control the corporate-political-military power structure) don't want significant population reduction

The real issue is this: As presently structured, capitalism demands growth.

The reason for the globalization of the economy was to continue growth......the only way to do that was to turn the developing world's consumers into American-like consumers.

The global corporations (and ruling elite) figured that out a long time ago and began the globalization process.

Also in their self-interest is population growth. Why? More consumers = more money (and to hel_l with future generations).

Too much growth and the system falls apart due to social chaos (that is one major reason for the now over 1 trillion dollars spent on the military worldwide......to keep the system going in the face of social chaos...........and pretend it is about freedom and democracy).

The globalization of the economy creates what amounts to a global slave labor class.........interchangeable on a global scale. This shifts power away from labor to the hands of those who do the hiring: large corporations.

This is the main reason labor unions are on the ropes worldwide.

A labor supply problem has been deliberately created by the ruling elite: too many people; too few quality jobs.

That forces the cost of labor down.............who wins? Large corporations.

Who loses? Labor worldwide.

The need to increase the number of consumers worldwide has led to another problem: global warming and climate change.

Why? Because the entire global economy is underpinned by an environmentally destructive energy platform (fossil fuel energy).

So, power has shifted to the ruling elites worldwide...........the masses have lost control.............the environment is being damaged..........nothing serious is being done to reach ZPG (zero population growth) and even NPG (negative population growth) because the global corporations don't want that.

This is a global power game that involves enormous sums of money..............and most of us have no idea it is even happening.

No, I can assure you, I am far from delusional.

What does this have to do with drought in Thailand. Well, it is all connected but I am not going to take more time painting the entire picture.

Suffice to say, within the next decade or two regional sustainability (economic and population security) will surface as a mandatory security issue. Governments worldwide will attempt to attain it. It will be the new goal.

Why? Because, eventually, the fact that the present system has failed will become self-evident, even to the trolls that are reading this.

Global warming is not a myth. Man-made global warming is the myth.

But it's more than that. It is a serious belief held by many well-meaning people who have a psychological need to blame humanity (particularly successful capitalists) for supposed damage to our environment.

Like many faiths, it has no basis in reality, but exerts a strong hold on the minds of those who have embraced it.

One of the problems with these fundamentalists is that they have no perspective on themselves, no self-awareness.

They never recognize that their way of thinking is just one of many other possible ways of thinking, which may be equally useful or good. On the contrary, they believe their way is the right way, everyone else is wrong; they are in the business of salvation, and they want to help you to see things the right way. They want to help you be saved. They are totally rigid and totally uninterested in opposing points of view.

The trolls have come out in force (once again). Now we are off topic...........reading total BS taken off of Exxon-Mobile funded websites.

Let's all stand up a cheer for all of the companies that want us to continue to pay high prices at the pump and pollute the atmosphere

Back to the actual topic.

In terms of climate change, there is little Thailand can do to stop it.............that takes a global wide effort.

But it seems to me Thailand could dig some deep water lakes (lots of them).

And it could adopt more water-efficient agricultural techniques.

Conservation? Virtually every house where I live captures rainwater and uses it.........that almost never happens in the USA.

I am sure if we were to compare per capita water usage in the USA and Thailand, the USA figure would be far greater.

SongKran? Once per year..........plays no role at all in the big picture.

global warming is a myth

Trolling trolling trolling........keep those myths a-rolling........trolling trolling trolling..........troll on................yeah!

Santa Claus is a myth

Believing trash paid for by Exxon-Mobile is a myth

But, unfortunately, the global scientific community agrees that global warming and climate change are very much real.

Now, back to the topic, do you have a solution to the problem?

The problem in Thailand seems to be that rain falls during 8 months (66% of 1 year) and the other 4 months are dry (33% of 1 year). Thailand, therefore needs to collect and store water in large ammounts. However, it seems Thailand only collects and stores less than 20% of annual rainfall.

The issue of global warming is not relevent, as the population of Thailand, at approx 67 million, is only 1% of the population of the globe. Thailand can only fix problems in Thailand, and can do very little about the other 99%.

Thailand's seasons have long been dominated by a rainy season and a dry season. That is not the issue.

The issue is that the recent dry periods are becoming more severe due to, in large part, global warming and climate change.

That something has to do with many global factors.

Yes, global warming is very relevant to Thailand (the process is a global process). As long as Thailand is on the earth, it is relevant.

Yes, global population is relevant for the same reason..........it is the cumulative impact of the earth's citizens (primarily engaging in environmentally unsound economic activities) that is causing global warming/climate change.

Even if Thailand does some temporary fix, it will not fix the global problems that are negatively impacting it.

People need to understand something: We are all in this together.

One thing is very true: Thailand needs to focus more on water storage.

But water storage systems (e.g., lakes) are fed by natural system impacted by global warming and climate change.

There is ample evidence now that the Mekong is drying up.............that will negatively impact Thailand.

Another poster said "greed" is the problem.

I would say that the massive greed expressed by fossil fuel energy corporations and the irresponsible politicians that support them is an example of greed being the problem.

Just found this ... http://civoc.com/m/videos/view/Story-of-St...ork-About-Stuff

This touches one of the major problems many don't want to recognize. As a matter of fact it is our greed that has brought us the droughts, floodings storms etc..

Population growth = increase in economic activity = more water use

Population growth + increase in environmentally unsound energy = global warming and climate change = drought

Population growth + increase in economic activity + increase in environmentally unsound energy use + unsustainable farming practices + global warming and climate change = DISASTER

Greed? It is one factor, but it is not that simple. It also avoids the most important variables..........most important causative factors.

all the time live was normal here,the only thing was that all thai here looking the tv all day.

johnyb yasothon

It was shocking...........I tried getting info. via the traditional sources (TV news), but the coverage was awful.

(Luckily, ThaiVisa did a good job covering events.)

[off topic discussion deleted - MiG16]

I started, for the first time, wondering if the anger and hatred and violence was going to surface where I live (Red country).

It was sad to see all of these things.....it was also predictable in away given the trajectory of the country during the past ten years.

After it was over, I was surprised at how quickly "normalcy" returned to Thailand (perhaps that is a temporary illusion).

The welcome mat was withdrawn at least ten years ago.

That is reflected in visa rules ..

Since you have been here for so long, maybe you forgot a few facts.

1 - retirement visa age eligibility changed from 55 to 50

2 - in the past, embassies often required a letter before they would issue an "O" visa (was no "O-A" early on)

3 - getting retirement extensions usually required multiple visits to immigration over periods of months

Seems to me that 'retirement" visas have become much easier.

That is priceless........you actually believe the visa rules have changed for the better.............priceless.

I rarely to this, but here it goes: :D

Unfortunately, due to our environmentally unsound economic activities (principally our reliance on non-renewable energy), climate change is a reality.

Of course, climate has always changed.

What is alarming is the pace and intensity of climate change.

Evidence suggests that droughts are increasing worldwide.

Modern humans have adapted to regional-specific climate realities.

The pace and intensity of climate change is starting to disrupt adaptive responses/patterns/cycles.

One can easily predict that food production in Thailand will be negatively impacted by climate change.

One can also predict that social chaos will follow.

Solutions:

1) reduce population levels worldwide (to try to curb economic growth)

2) develop a new system of energy that is inexpensive and does not pollute and lead to global warming/climate change

3) greatly increase recycling, energy efficiency, water conservation measures, and passive solar design

4) use market forces to increase the use of existing sustainable energy forms

5) ensure that the price of oil reflects its real cost to society (this will stimulate the use of alternative forms of energy)

6) plant trees........as many as possible (for those who may not know, trees absorb CO2, thus reducing the impact of global warming)

7) shift to a quality driven economy (as opposed to a quantity driven economy)

And now........here come the "global warming isn't real" trolls.

As a generalization, I think Thais are not so welcoming to 'farangs', when compared to a few years ago. When I lived in BKK in 2003, even those few years ago, I was welcomed with smiles everywhere - never any problems. But I guess that the increase in tourists and expats, and the exposure on TV/in shops to western consumer products and foods has made some Thais 'weary' of foreigners at times.

I have no problem at all if someone chooses to like or dislike me

The only thing that annoys me (still, after 8 years of living here) is the assumption that Thais are always right and foreigners are not. I find the inability to accept well-meaning advice a common trait amongst 'Thai' Thais. Interestingly, I find that 'Chinese' Thais are much more willing to listen and learn. This could simply be down to the level of education and some of the xenophobic rubbish that many Thais are taught in school.

In the tourist areas, many Thais (and expats/tourists) are rude and impatient. I think similar situations exist in all tourist destinations, and not just in Thailand.

Although I look around for alternatives to living and working in Thailand, and have considered job offers from Europe and China, at the end of the day Thailand still seems to be my best choice, in terms of cost of living, low tax rate, good weather and good food

Simon

Simon........we agree on something.

The welcome mat was withdrawn at least ten years ago.

That is reflected in visa rules, social engineering policies, and behavior.

Over the past ten years I have lived in several countries, including Thailand.

Never..........NEVER........did I get the impression I was not welcome in China and Cambodia.

Yes, I did feel a bit unwelcome from some extremists in Indonesia and Malaysia, but that was a local situation (wrong place and the wrong time).

In general, I have to say that I felt more welcome in China, Cambodia, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Why? Because of what I said at the outset. Thai culture has changed.

The flow and content of information changed--much of that information xenophobic (even hate oriented in some cases).

A certain wanted terrorist was responsible for a lot of it.

One more thing: Your point about Thais always being right and foreigners always being wrong is right on target.

That is, in fact, one of the main reasons the country is not developing properly.

I can't tell you how many times I have presented a Thai with a "million dollar idea" only to receive this response: "You don't understand...........Thais don't........Thais would never.......etc."

Thailand could easily move to the next level on the ladder of development if it would embrace positive models outside of Thailand.

But Thais seem to always want to do things the Thai way...........which is often not efficient or incompatible with the global economy.

Nuff said..........culture always changes..........what we see today will not be what we see in the future.

Things could turn around for the better.

I think people seem to be going off topic here a little. The OP asked why are so many bars closing down.For me the answer is obvious, a lot of ex-pats come to Pattaya, see a bar and think I can do that it's easy,WRONG.They think buy a bar put in a few good looking girls and watch the cash roll in.I reckon that about 90+% of ex-pat bar owners have never run a bar in their lives before they came here.I ran bars in england for almost 30 years, and believe me it is a 24 hour a day job, in fact it is not a job it's a way of life, and you can either love it or hate it, there is no in between in this game.You have to be there as many hours as is physically possible to make sure that you have contact with your customers, and listen to what they want, and then do your best to provide it for them. And then you have to make sure your staff are well trained in what they are doing, the old saying"it's easy to lose customers, but as hard as hel_l to get them back" comes to mind.Customer service is as important as serving good food and good beer.And finally it is up to you as the boss to create the atmosphere in your bar.When you get all these things right, then you are on your way to having a successful bar, and believe me even though you may experience a dip in trade during tough times, you will have the capacity to survive, whereas the other bars where the owner doesn't want to put in the hours, or be bothered getting someone with experience to run it for them will fall by the wayside.

With due respect, the fine print posted by the OP enlarges the thread. He wants to know why businesses are closing. He gives a few examples, one being Irish bars...but his obvious intent is to get answers as to why businesses, in general, are closing.

It would be nice if the OP would step in and clarify this.

From the OP:

I just read a link from this forum,I think it was a weblink to a site called "pattaya at night " or similar.

Quite interesting,however the amount of Irish bars that seem to be closing has me shocked as well as TIPS Restaurant etc.

Is it a combination of high rents/no customers or mismanagement?

One business mentioned,a irish bar called BOSCos was paying 70k a month so maybe its the rents.

Then again i read of a group called the peppermint group buying similar type businesses ,so they dont seem to concerned of the ecomomic downturn.

I think Pattaya actually has too many of these irish themed bars,im actually surprised that big one in jomtiem is making a profit OR still trading actually.

Supply and demand, its that simple. The Thais and bar owners don't seem to understand that basic economic principle !

Right.........but unlike the OP, there will be more chatter here about Irish bars.........the OP was talking about Irish bars, but the OP was also talking about businesses in general.

The social engineering project has officially failed.

Seems a lot of people got ripped off...

Just a couple of the threads;

Fair Proprties Jomtien, closed????

Fairproperties Is Keeping Money From The Rentals Of My Condos, What Should I Do?

their has been more said elsewhere seems they were; not passing on rents to owner, letting out property and not telling the owners (pocketing the money), unfairly withholding deposits, jacking up rents, etc just wondered how they stayed in business so long because there have been many complaints posted over the last few years???

Yes, that and the collapse of the real estate market.

More to come and don't feel sorry for the real estate hounds.

I looked up Annatto seeds- They are the same as Achiote paste used in Mayan Cooking in Yucatan and Oaxacan cusine.

It also is sold on line in Asia (India & China), They may have it at an India Spice Market.

Hope that helps !

Cheers

Thanks........what you said does help.

A spice market catering to the Indian food industry might be the place to find the annatto seeds or achiote paste.

Here is a picture of it "shredded." I think that shredded meat would really be good in a burrito or taco.

Having said that, I think small chunks would be better.