drummer

I also think that a Thai girls facination with having fair skin plays a part in this also, i.e cover up and don't get "black colour"

totster

Good point. I went down south for a while with my TGF, and she was complaining about being darker when she got back. (Although... **everyone** knows that farangs prefer darker skin... )

lol sniff kissing?

What exactly *is* sniff kissing? I'm afraid I don't have a clear picture.

I hope that Drummer understands drums more than he understands immigration and work permit laws of Thailand.

I most certainly hope that, too. I have gotten my information from various websites and forums, like this one and www.adjarn.com

I am very pleased to know that I am wrong.

To Ban thale: Chok dee khrap.

Thailand doesn't need any homeless beggers, there is plenty of people to feed here already.

...

yes, maybe I don't know much, but I understand that the Thai government wants to see that people have enough cash to stay here if they do not intend to work here! I do not say that good people have money, and bad people are poor, I just say that as Thailand don't want illigal workers they have to make sure that you have enough to support youself!!

My beef is that I am a good person by every measure except money. And money is the ONLY criterion being used. (before anyone mentions education, you only need the education for the work permit- not anything else) Money, obviously, does not automatically provide the ability to spell or conjugate 'is' correctly

If you mean me with spelling misstakes, yes, I am not American or English, and it is a kind of hard for me to control the 6 different languishes I use, byt I supose thats nothing for a well educated drummer and languish teacher like your self? And NO, money is NOT the only criteria for a workpermit or work in Thailand, but spelling English correctly may not be enough!

regards,

Ban thale

They also want to make sure you have enough to support yourself if you want to get a work permit at all. You need 400,000 THB in a Thai bank to get any sort of WP, although they are overlooking this for ESL teachers.

Since English is your 6th language, I won't hold you not noticing that I wasn't actually talking about WPs. In fact, I used it as the exception that proved the rule. Kudos, btw. You speak english very well. I take back every bad thing I ever said about you or your mother

I understand that the *stated* rationale for the law is preventing illegal workers.

However, actions speak louder than words, especially from a government official. The realities of the visa laws have very little effect on illegal working. They are still allowing back to back tourist visas. The 400,000 THB law does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to curb illegal working when anyone can stay w/o the cash.

What the law is designed to do is to

(a) try to make the farang population more invested in LoS. (This is probably at least partly due to the West's ignoring Thailand during the Asian stock market crash in the 90's.) If the farangs *have* to invest, they will find it in their best interest to keep LoS solvent, even in little ways.

( This also makes more capital flow into LoS. This is why it has to be transferred from abroad.

© For political capital. It plays on racism and fear (kick the farangs out) and an relies on an undereducated public not to see that those laws are not in their own selfish best interest and that the stated reasons have nothing to do with the what the law does.

Thus, illegal workers have nothing to do with it.

The ONLY way it serves to decrease illegal working is to keep people from entering the country in the first place- and this, from the looks of the message boards, is as many or more legal workers than anything else. The exodus is more because of the feeling of Damocles' Sword hanging over their heads than the actual laws at this point. The good for nothing tourist that they want to get rid of will still come in. The motivated workers who do enough research into LoS to know about the laws will get scared off, even if they have the dough.

This law negatively impacts the stated reason. You will see more illegal working because it is just as easy to stay in LoS, but harder to get a legal visa. I am quite certain that there are many guys who are less concerned with staying legal than I am. For them, working illegally is the best choice, for their best interest. They don't even have to pay taxes!

As for my personal situation, I am not griping. I am a big boy and I can handle myself. I do *not* like being called a homeless beggar. You *do* use that as a judge of character- mine among others.

In fact, it is *harder* for me to work,  as I am given to understand that most ESL schools (my only option for gainful emploment in LoS) prefer non Imm 'B' visas, not marriage 'O' visas.

Not really true. We have a couple of guys working here on Os. Its just that for most people they are not married to a Thai or were on a B and then married.

As long as you have proper documentation to get a WP you can be on either.

It is just as possible to get a WP with an 'O' , but I've just read in several places that employers generally prefer the 'B' visas for some reason.

I may look like a bum but I got cash

My point exactly. Money is not everything. At least, it shouldn't be BTW... I do know I am waxing idealistic. But the visa laws, which hold 'being rather well off' as the sole requirement of being wanted, are not really useful. They fail on both keeping out moral slimebags and at maximizing the country's GDP. What they do do, however, is score points with the people for *sounding* like a good idea.

Living in Thailand is not a right, it is a priviledge. I may look like a bum but I got cash and make visa runs. There is no visa for penniless drummers that I know of. Perhaps you should go back to Venice Beach CA and work for tips on the boardwalk for a while to raise sufficient cash. I have some connections there if you need a motor home to sleep under right on the beach.

VR

Apparently, you didn't read my post. I am not disputing LoS's right to do whatever it wants. I am, however, under no obligation to like it or agree with it. I should comply, however, and be nice, polite - maybe even not look liike a bum, as personal appearance is highly valued in LoS. But I don't have to agree. I am not automatically PM Thaksin's marionette in thought and deed, simply because I am in his country.

My beef is with using money as a judge of character. I actually went to school with a couple of members of the Thai royal family. I am writing a book that will be sold in every Target, Costco and Walmart in the US. I have options. They have nothing to do with my parents. I just don't like being called good for nothing just because I value what I do over what I make.

I am rather certain you personally have called a few people a few not so nice words for *not* making that decision. I'm not saying anything along those lines, or making judgements about other people. But you want to, please, at least give them the benefit of reading what they have to say.

If you have anything useful to say, other than "go home, hippie" I would be happy to enter into a discussion. If you want to make any more ad hominem attacks, I suggest you keep them to yourself. At very least, make them apropos.

Thailand doesn't need any homeless beggers, there is plenty of people to feed here already.

...

If your case is that you travel in and out, and make your money outside Thailand, I can't see why you got upset, as you are a tourist and would not have any problems with your visas!

If you would like to stay here and work, and Carabao or anyone else would need you, I am quite confident that you could get a workpermit. However, I think there is already plenty of Thai nationals who know how to bang a drumm.

By the way, the very same goes for my profession (diving), when they don't need me, I will not get a workpermit more, and I am NOT bitter at that fact, as I am still only a guest after 16 years in Thailand!

regards,

Ban thale

Any idea how you might support the baby and the girlfriend, and some sort of a clue where you might live ?

regards,

Ban thale

My case is that I travel in and out right now because I can't make a living in Thailand because of the visa laws. This means I have to be away from my pregnant girlfriend. Not exactly ideal.

Look- I **cannot** get married without 400,000 THB in the bank. A marriage visa is out of the question. Even if it was an option, it would mean nothing for me except less frequest visa runs. I do not get to work in thailand with a marriage visa. In fact, it is *harder* for me to work, as I am given to understand that most ESL schools (my only option for gainful emploment in LoS) prefer non Imm 'B' visas, not marriage 'O' visas.

You seem to know very little on the subject. With exceedingly few to no exceptions, the only farangs who get work permits as musicians are working for hotels, and those gigs are sewn up tight. Even though I have friends from back in tha day in those gigs now. That is a pie in the sky option. Teaching drums is strictly forbidden. I could run a business whereby I had at least 4 employees who tought drums instead of me, though.

My beef is that I am a good person by every measure except money. And money is the ONLY criterion being used. (before anyone mentions education, you only need the education for the work permit- not anything else) Money, obviously, does not automatically provide the ability to spell or conjugate 'is' correctly

The laws are designed to look good on paper. They play on racism and misunderstanding and rely on an undereducated public. These apply to the US, too btw. I'm not slamming LoS, but I am saying that the rationale behind these laws most certainly has only a loose connection with the subject and intent of said laws. It ain't right and I don't like it. And I don't like being refferred to as a homeless beggar because I am not independently wealthy.

(to Dr. potpong... Yes, I do have plans in the works. I will have enough to live on for a while, and I can always teach english. I even have some related college courses and a teaching background (even if rather unrelated) that, I understand from adjarn.com and others, puts me ahead of meany current ESL teachers in LoS right now. I just won't be able to make $10K PLUS enough money to live on. I will be in BKK to start with, as I have a bunch of friends there and my g/f's sister lives there. I do know its a lot cheaper in the sticks. I got options- my beef is moral indignation more than the practicality of my immediate situation.

Thanks for your concern )

[Long live Thailand!

Thailand doesn't need any homeless beggers, there is plenty of people to feed here already.

WOW! Good to know! I'm a homeless beggar because I don't have 400,000 THB that I can transfer! I am going back to Thailand because of my girlfriend and baby. I am by no means a homeless beggar. I am not a criminal, cheat or liar. In fact, I am well educated work very hard at my chosen profession, which happens to be very very illegal for farang in Thailand. I am a musician. I play and teach the drums in the US. I am good at it, and I even write instruction books on it. It just doesn't pay a heck of a lot. I do it because I love it.

**And now, I am going to have to give up doing something that I have worked very hard my whole life at because I am only a homeless beggar! **

Untill I can get everything in place to leave, that is. D*** shame.

There was a recent study in the US that stated that 50% of men cheat and 44% of

women cheat.

I was shocked and mortified!!!

The nerve of those women whoring around behind our backs !!!

Well, you know what they say about statistics - 67% of them are made up on the spot! Anyways, anyone really intereste in the subject (infidelity - I don't now that he talks about penis reduction surgery at all) might want to check out a book "The Red Queen" by Matt Ridley. It is a very entertaining and accessible read that talking about some of the related scientific issues. Its not the bible, but it is rather interesting.

usatrader ... Let me get this straight. You are saying that if everyone just stops fooling around then we wouldn't have this problem? Don't you think you are being a bit idealistic to suggest that if everyone just start being virtuous that we wouldn't have these problems?

For the sake of discussion, IMHO, men and women are much, much much, much much more alike than they are different. And even the differences, you find all sorts of exceptions to those rules. Do you really think that a female dominated society would really be any better than the Taliban? (for women it most certainly would, of course ) But wouldn't that just be trading one injustice for another? You can make the argument that women would not run a Taliban-like government, but then that wouldn't be female dominated.

Going back to the willy hacking sqad.

Wouldn't it be beneficial to implement a new government awareness add..

'I do something amazing sceme' ?

A bit like giving blood but donating your privates.

I guess it would come down to what willy type are you. Also if you are prepared to walk around with a 3 inch whistler after you new op.

I'm sure the donation sceme would be overwhelming.

forget about giving blood. Give willy, a new dawn has come.

Ouch!

Yeah, but then you'd start to have a black willy market. (wait, did I say that right?) Imagine seeing a members only table on the street along Sukhimvit...

What  oh what are you on about? No man should EVER have is most important organ chopped off, especially for infidelity. There is a little somehting called divorce. If it was due to abuse, it should be settled in court and the guy should go to jail, NOT have his penis chopped off. For Christ's sake.

I dunno ... I personally think some guys deserve it. There are some sick puppies - child molesters / rapists that IMHO, deserve castration with a fine grained belt sander. Of course, for infidelity, I totally agree. It should generally end the relationship, but johnson-lopping is a bit cruel and unusual

He's obviously from the planet USA, and brain-washed by the politically correct (555) - meaning woman-dominated - climate that is destroying that formerly great country.

Huh ... I just figured that he was a she. Probably one with a bad experience or 7 on the subject.

What planet are you from? Infidelity is rife in all "Fahrang" countries.

It is indeed rife, but Thais do seem to bring it to another level. And most Thais are a bit less concerned with cheating themselves. I have seen many friends from different circles in the States get chastised by their male friends for

cheating / cheating related stuff.

Example ... me. I have a g/f with a baby due in Jan. I made a comment to a friend of mine about a group of girls- something like "they look good, if you like that kind of thing. Actually a few of 'em look giood even if you don't like that kind of thing." And he laughs, then says "What are you talking about? You have a /f and a baby on the way!"

I've seen lots of this kind of stuff. Point is, there is a cultural difference on the subject from the States and LoS. Granted, I don't speak Thai well enough to know how often these kinds of things get said by Thais, but there just doesn't seem to be quite the same support for remaining faithful in LoS.

That being said, there is a general foundation for cheating / not cheating that goes beyond cultural influence, (some very interesting research is being done on chemicals, like oxytocin, that create feelings of attatchment between people. And how some people are strongly affected by them (generally don't cheat), and some people don't have them (generally cheat a lot).

heh... funny little story. My dad is a piano player, and a few years back was playing the reception at a wedding. Or should I say *would have* played the reception at the wedding, except that somewhere between the ceremony and the reception, the bride caught the groom getting a BJ in the closet *from one of her bridesmaids*. Anyway, he got to go home a little early.

I should preface this by saying I have no respect for cheating. But some of the things you have said are a little off-base.

"After reading much of the commentary on this subject it sounds to me like many of our members are here in Thailand for the male dominance thing. "

Pleeeenty of women cheat too. Believe you me. Lots and lots and lots and lots of women cheat, too. I used to work as a cab driver and got to hear all sorts of things. And cheating generally has nothing to do with male-dominance. Of course men want a double standard, but that, like cheating itself, is a *human* trait, not a just male one.

"An easy solution to this threat on everyones manhood would be some real odd concepts like loyality, fidelity, honor and respect not only to their wifes, families but to themselves.. "

I wholly agree with the concepts and the practice there. (maybe not the bitterness, though- even though I have been cheated on) However, I have been wrongly accused by jealous girlfriends before...

It is interesting, though. The frequency of cheating in Thai entertainment media is astounding compared to the States. And it usually involves the wronged party (nearly always a woman) getting piss drunk and buying a gun. One movie featured the girlfriend tying her guy to the bed and cutting off his legs with a hacksaw!! (it was a comedy) Generally speaking, what happens in the States is the other person (usually a guy, but not nearly so consistently) gets his stuff thrown out and the relationship is over. People do get killed, too, though. Both in the LoS and in the USA. He!!, in Texas, killing your cheating partner and/or the cuckold, povided you catch them in the act, is legal. (automatic temporary insanity)

All was going well until I tried the meditation part...... i just couldnt clear my mind. All I could think of was how much my legs were hurting as I suffered in the lotus position. Then the pins and needles started..... and all the time this was supposed to be relaxing me??!?!?

Anyway, buddhism sure as ###### beats the crap out of what the current Pope is preaching about..... although IMHO Buddhism is more a way of life rather than a religion. Maybe Catholicism started out like that but somewhere in the last few decades it really has lost its way.

I think the current line by the Catholics is entirely expected, given its illustrious history.

Re: meditation ... There is some very interesting secular research being done on it at the moment, and it seems to be an extremely powerful, effective method of making yourself a happier person. There is a pilot secular meditation program for schoolchildren in the US that is underway now. The initial results are very encouraging ... i.e. grades, attendance, attentiveness up, violence etc down.

That being said, there are many different types of meditation, and most involve getting yourself into a relaxed position. I'm a big fan of meditation myself, but I have never been able to get myself into a lotus poisition to begin with! But many only rquire that you are confortable.

Even the catholics have meditation .... saying 100 "Hail Mary"s absolutely qualifies.

Well, getting all the facts is the main reason for the post. I am reasonable certain she's pregnant, and that the kid is mine. I am setting up a doctors appointment for her at Burmengard hospital, and a copy of the results / etc will be sent to me, so if she is not pregnant, I will know it. If its not mine, then I will know by the conception day, and fur sure when the kid pops out

She has already taken a blood test and told me the results. As I said I am reasonably certain she is telling the truth here. (I have falang friends in BKK who can do a visual inspection)

I am just satisfying my own paranoia and the paranoia of others If the facts don't check out then I have a problem.

Well, the point here isn't the cost per se... I'm checking to see if I'm getting skimmed for money. Its a rather long story, and while I trust my girlfriend, I do not trust her sister as much, and she seems to be 'calling the shots' for my g/f... I am going back to Thailand in September, and would like to start seeing my girlfriend again, but I do want to make sure that she's not scamming me. That would, well, dampen my enthusiasm toward her considerably. So far so good, but now I am just looking for specific info re: the police hospital.

Thanks

Anyone know what the cost of this hospital is? They don't seem to speak english there, and I don't speak enough Thai to ask

Police Hospital

Rama I Road.

Tel: 252-8111 to 25

Modern government hospital.

Thanks!

You don't say how old you/(the expectent moteher is)

She is 21 and Thai. I'm in the states right now and won't be able to come back untill September. I am not entirely certain its not a scam, so I'm just doing some fact checking. Thanks

How much, exactly, does prenatal care cost in Thailand?

I am being asked to pay 8000 THB for a program that includes all prenatal care. From my (limited) experience with the thai medical system, this sounds a little high. As well as compared to an average Thai salary. (Doesn't stop the American medical system, though

Anyways, does anyone have any first hand information about

(1) How much this stuff costs in BKK

(2) Are there programs that include all prenatal care?

(3) If so, then when do you start them?

Before I pony up any cash, I would like to do some legwork as to the validity of the request.

Thank you very much to anyone who responds

If you are not married to the Thai lady, however did you ever get a spousal visa ?

As I seem to be having a baby with (a good) one, I reckon marrying her isnt't out of the question. I.E. I don't have one, but could get one.

That is a good idea, and one I was thinking about. I teach private lessons and small group classes here already, and would like to teach music lessons in Thailand. I don't know if I'm quite qualified as a music teacher that isn't specific to the drums, though.

What kind of schools should I contact? How should I go about tracking them down? Thanks