Expats Face Visa Uncertainty in Thailand Rules Shift

1 hour ago, LetsGoJoe said:

I just went to get a bank statement for my non-o family visa and the BBK Bank froze my account for 4-months...no explanation other than it has nothing to do with immigration. So, I'm required to hold funds 2-months prior to visa application and 1-month more during "consideration". Now, no access to funds for another 4 months...so, the bank holds my funds for a total of 7 months....so, "locking-up money" is a literal thing now....is forced savings really a bad thing? 😁

No, they are holding it for four months, one more than the three required by the government. Not seven. It looks high handed but they are just covering the end of month statement period. You can move the account if you don't like it. I would just leave the 800k there and forget about it.

1 hour ago, lanng khao said:

I could put that money in the bank multiple times over but use a agent because i cant be bothered with the tawlea of it all, so shouldn't i be allowed to live here?

Dude...dont even try to talk about living a convenient life here. Youll be chastised and downvoted for 1. Not paying rock bottom prices. 2. Not spending your day filing paperwork and chasing smoke. 3. Claiming your convenience is worth more than the money your saving

They wear their struggles here like war badges.

52 minutes ago, mijens said:

You are either eligible to a visa [correct] for your situation or you are not. There are rarely stories of visa holders who stick to the rules; only those who don't and personnaly couldn't care less for those who cant [or wont] follow the kingdoms legislation

There was a thread started by the AN moderator Charlie H 2or3 years back relating to his renewal experience, I think a Chiang Mai Immigration office. He had all his paperwork in order. He was sent away to get something else, then something else, backward and forward etc. I recall he ended up with over 80 pieces of paper before he was given his renewal. So yes, follow the kingdoms legislation but start with immigration offices.

Another thing to take into consideration is that if the agency route was dismantled, how would the powers that be supplement their income? The answer is simply that genuine applicants would then be the logical target. No pay no play.

Im not disputing your point of view, I just think that things arent that straightforward.

I use the 65K+ per month routine because that money and then some gets spent every month anyway. And I have no problem supplying a legit source of funds.

Seems that some persons who like to let you know of their use of the agent routine have a badge to wear for that as well.

7 minutes ago, potless said:

There was a thread started by the AN moderator Charlie H 2or3 years back relating to his renewal experience, I think a Chiang Mai Immigration office. He had all his paperwork in order. He was sent away to get something else, then something else, backward and forward etc. I recall he ended up with over 80 pieces of paper before he was given his renewal. So yes, follow the kingdoms legislation but start with immigration offices.

Another thing to take into consideration is that if the agency route was dismantled, how would the powers that be supplement their income? The answer is simply that genuine applicants would then be the logical target. No pay no play.

Im not disputing your point of view, I just think that things arent that straightforward.

The IO's frustration is easy to see as he glances over a bank statement, a fella with 4 million baht in his savings acc paying 1900 baht for another year stay, or an Agent coming in with 30,000 baht and his client who's ready for his photo, perhaps they are trying to work out the problem.....😉

1 hour ago, SamSpade said:

When I used to do my extension At CW (I think 2022 was the last one), even if you used an Agent (which I did for convenience, I've always maintained the 800K in the Bank), you had to sit in front of the Immigration Officer whilst they processed your paperwork.

When you think about it, those "Dodgy Guys" who don't keep the 800K/65K might be doing you a favour by getting their extensions from "Up Country" & lessening the queues at CW.

1 hour ago, SamSpade said:

When I used to do my extension At CW (I think 2022 was the last one), even if you used an Agent (which I did for convenience, I've always maintained the 800K in the Bank), you had to sit in front of the Immigration Officer whilst they processed your paperwork.

When you think about it, those "Dodgy Guys" who don't keep the 800K/65K might be doing you a favour by getting their extensions from "Up Country" & lessening the queues at CW.

1 hour ago, SamSpade said:

When I used to do my extension At CW (I think 2022 was the last one), even if you used an Agent (which I did for convenience, I've always maintained the 800K in the Bank), you had to sit in front of the Immigration Officer whilst they processed your paperwork.

When you think about it, those "Dodgy Guys" who don't keep the 800K/65K might be doing you a favour by getting their extensions from "Up Country" & lessening the queues at CW.

You still need to sit in front of the immigration officer while she combs through every line of paperwork even with an agent. Would never leave my p.port with an agent to process the extension.

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

Pretty sure you CAN just walk in to England (or rather sail in) these days, you'll even be provided free housing and other benefits.... (not that I agree with it - deport them all)

Not true . I am a UK citizen and have lived in Thailand for 17 years . I went to UK just as COVID started and couldn't return to Thailand as was closed .

I applied for UK benefits and was told I would have to be in the country for 2 of 3 years before I could receive them despite being disabled and unable to work.

35 minutes ago, potless said:

Another thing to take into consideration is that if the agency route was dismantled, how would the powers that be supplement their income?

If the agency route is dismantled, it will likely be because of the Bank of Thailand (BOT) or the Thai Revenue Department so the agents or powers-that-be should then address their ire at them.

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

Stories like this and the accompanying headlines are written for the sole purpose of trying to get people worried,

The number of people currently viewing this thread (56) is proof of its success.

Follow the rules and be polite is all that is required

2 hours ago, hanbla said:

I’m not sure if the rules have been tightened, but enforcement definitely has.
I feel for the guy, but jumping between a Muay Thai ED visa and a DTV draws attention. It suggests he might be trying to stay on indefinitely, work illegally, or something of the sort.
Regardless, I’ve been living here on a Non-Immigrant Retirement visa for ten years without any issues. When it’s time to renew, I bring my lovely wife along. We make sure we’re smartly dressed, and my wife has a bit of a natter with the officers. It’s always sorted within 15–20 minutes, and I always manage to book a slot at Chaengwattana.
I don’t foresee any problems with my own extension; I even do my 90-day reports online. But stories like this always crop up and get everyone worried.
In my experience, if you just follow the rules and remain polite and respectful, you won't have any trouble.

2 hours ago, hanbla said:

I’m not sure if the rules have been tightened, but enforcement definitely has.
I feel for the guy, but jumping between a Muay Thai ED visa and a DTV draws attention. It suggests he might be trying to stay on indefinitely, work illegally, or something of the sort.
Regardless, I’ve been living here on a Non-Immigrant Retirement visa for ten years without any issues. When it’s time to renew, I bring my lovely wife along. We make sure we’re smartly dressed, and my wife has a bit of a natter with the officers. It’s always sorted within 15–20 minutes, and I always manage to book a slot at Chaengwattana.
I don’t foresee any problems with my own extension; I even do my 90-day reports online. But stories like this always crop up and get everyone worried.
In my experience, if you just follow the rules and remain polite and respectful, you won't have any trouble.

2 hours ago, hanbla said:

I’m not sure if the rules have been tightened, but enforcement definitely has.
I feel for the guy, but jumping between a Muay Thai ED visa and a DTV draws attention. It suggests he might be trying to stay on indefinitely, work illegally, or something of the sort.
Regardless, I’ve been living here on a Non-Immigrant Retirement visa for ten years without any issues. When it’s time to renew, I bring my lovely wife along. We make sure we’re smartly dressed, and my wife has a bit of a natter with the officers. It’s always sorted within 15–20 minutes, and I always manage to book a slot at Chaengwattana.
I don’t foresee any problems with my own extension; I even do my 90-day reports online. But stories like this always crop up and get everyone worried.
In my experience, if you just follow the rules and remain polite and respectful, you won't have any trouble.

Very fair comment- show respect- follow the rules and hopefully all will be well

23 minutes ago, Legal Lifeline said:

Very fair comment- show respect- follow the rules and hopefully all will be well

It won't stop the scaremongering though, "banking, visas and tax" the current holy trinity

29 minutes ago, JerryM said:

If the agency route is dismantled, it will likely be because of the Bank of Thailand (BOT) or the Thai Revenue Department so the agents or powers-that-be should then address their ire at them.

I doubt that those departments are even interested. The new policies at Bangkok Bank are possibly due to BOT scrutiny of accounts that may be used for money laundering. Banks that "assisted" agents would have had many accounts opened and closed in a span of a only a few days and thus come under the spotlight resulting in a knee jerk reaction.

I am not against the agency route. If everyone involved is content i dont see a major problem. I dont see anything changing in the foreseeable future.

only thing i hated about thailand was the uncertainty of visa rules, and the fact i had to travel abroad for another visa.

in a better world, thailand would simply charge 20-30k from everyone wanting to stay a year, regardless of age,

like how retirement visa works

12 minutes ago, potless said:

I doubt that those departments are even interested.

The reason they may be interested are because they will have tools available that not so before:

Fraud monitoring and detection: Providers must develop proactive processes to detect and monitor unusual transactions and utilize data from multiple sources (e.g., Central Fraud Registry and data obtained from other financial service providers) to identify potential mule accounts and fraud. This may involve adopting new technologies (e.g., artificial intelligence) to enhance efficacy and stay ahead of emerging fraud techniques.

NB: People like to say that there's no way anything gonna happen to the agent-assisted set-up because there's too much money in it.

The money in it is why those departments may be interested. They may be able to link large data amounts now that 3 or 5 years ago was impossible.

I guess another reason to relocate to Vietnam.

I have a DTV (remote work), but what I can't understand is these 5-year DTVs being approved for Muay Thai, Thai cooking, etc. These are 6- to 12-month courses at most; the ED visa served this purpose already. Yes, you might want to train Muay Thai throughout, but then there's an elite sports person one, if I'm not mistaken, which covers this.

Seems the best approach would be a significant flat fee and proof of funds to be here for a year.

If he has so much money and no need to work for 3 years and still dont want to work and want to stay in Thailand on an ED extension, or if he does an DTV claiming consistent work for the last few years ... then he would be precisely who the Immigrations are looking for 😄..... to explain himself... 🤣

2 hours ago, potless said:

There was a thread started by the AN moderator Charlie H 2or3 years back relating to his renewal experience, I think a Chiang Mai Immigration office. He had all his paperwork in order. He was sent away to get something else, then something else, backward and forward etc. I recall he ended up with over 80 pieces of paper before he was given his renewal. So yes, follow the kingdoms legislation but start with immigration offices.

Another thing to take into consideration is that if the agency route was dismantled, how would the powers that be supplement their income? The answer is simply that genuine applicants would then be the logical target. No pay no play.

Im not disputing your point of view, I just think that things arent that straightforward.

Try being Thai and getting a US tourist visa or permanent residence in Canada! Now there's some scrupulous paperwork! And it's often denied, some with no chance to reapply but always have to pay the fees one more time. Believe me, here in easy.

IF Cui is a genuine, dedicated Muay Thai student--Thai culture--then he should be allowed the 3 years. But at 40k/month, he's not much economic value to Thailand.

No appt slots at CW. Arriving at 830, I was #3078 and still got seen by 1pm and waited one-half hour.

My 35th retirement visa.

I do think long-term expats, say, 20 years, should be grandfathered in and get PR. Save lots of useless, free, 90-day paperwork so IOs could be freed to do visas.

Yes, keep that 800k or 400k in the bank, don't touch it. Mine will go to my wife at check-out time.

2 hours ago, potless said:

There was a thread started by the AN moderator Charlie H 2or3 years back relating to his renewal experience, I think a Chiang Mai Immigration office. He had all his paperwork in order. He was sent away to get something else, then something else, backward and forward etc. I recall he ended up with over 80 pieces of paper before he was given his renewal. So yes, follow the kingdoms legislation but start with immigration offices.

Another thing to take into consideration is that if the agency route was dismantled, how would the powers that be supplement their income? The answer is simply that genuine applicants would then be the logical target. No pay no play.

Im not disputing your point of view, I just think that things arent that straightforward.

Well in my over 40 years here, I have never had ANY problem with visas nor with bank paperwork when necessary. Visas have changed since I began staying here and I changed with them as requirements for some of the same visas changed and in order to meet those new requirements, from stories on this Forum and the Bangkok Post, i learned of the changes and was prepared when ever I had to extend a visa or when a new visa would appear that better suited my finances and life here, I jumped at it so that I feel really comfortable and very little interaction with immigration officers too though I do speak Thai and I was always polite when talking with the IO's and think that maybe that had something to do with it but attitude is something that IO's don't have any more than many expats IMHO anyway. I have live in many countries around the world, and have always obeyed local laws and never had any problems except maybe with known terrorists affecting my lifestyle except maybe during a war so not something I couldn't deal with. To me, after 40+ years here I still think that Thailand is more of a paradise than most other countries so have no plans to depart anytime soon. Today i received a news article Entitled "10 seconds to maybe a better day and life" and it talked about just sit back look at one's life and think of the people that you met that improved your life. I for some reason had been doing that just this morning before I even read that article and was immediately surprised at the number of people that in many cases went out of their way to provide some blessing to my life. There are so many that it is impossible to really remember some of them but there had to be as I have been truly blessed too many times in my life. it certainly makes me sit and relax a lot more right now knowing that and that i am still in Paradise! I certainly hope that everyone can sit back and relax a bit - think of the positives in your life, not the negative and if you are successful in doing this, life for you too should seem much brighter. If not, then maybe this is not the paradise you once thought it was. Maybe there is another one somewhere else. I belong to forums covering many countries in Europe and Asia and many of the complaints are similar from some expats so here might be better for them and there might be better for some on this forum that are not happy here. I only wish the best for all of us, I have experienced horrible conditions in some areas of the world but survived with more knowledge and appreciation for what I do have.

I am a patriotic American VN vet, who can live here or there comfortably on a retirement income but that doesn't want me to move back to the political situations in the US of which I am ashamed and embarrassed by the politics there especially the current administration. Just saying if one wonders why i stay here so happily. Good luck with your visas and any changes that might show up with the new government.

1 hour ago, Legal Lifeline said:

Very fair comment- show respect- follow the rules and hopefully all will be well

and

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Try staying somewhere with cheaper rent and don't use the aircon 24/7 and I'm sure there will be enough left over from 40k for plenty of "discretionary" spending.

The question is more where is the 40k coming from? He claims to be at boxing school.

5 hours ago, Jimbolkb said:

last couple of week: impossible to get a slot for an appointment at CW

even you have an appointment, agents come and get priority service for 10,20,50 customers

people who don't have 800k/65k a month, use dodgy agents with connections to get a stamp, while those people should not get

follow the rules and scrutiny to the max for every single paper and money in the bank for a year, and dodge users of agents don't even show up at the immigration nightmare

why is this not handled ? too much money involved

anti corruption agency is as ... fill in yourself...

make it more difficult for people following the rules instead of finding a humane solution for long term rule followers (married, children, working, retired, tax payers, ...)

Then you have people complaining about the 800K requirement, hoping immigration will one day "scrap it" (LOL...that's never going to happen...in fact, in the next 2 years it will probably increase as some have been warning since last year). There's one letter on the Bangkok Post Postbag I think it was from Saturday the 28th of March, where the writer was "begging" for this requirement to be dropped along with a host of other demands like no more 90 day reports and so forth, while claiming foreigners/westerners bring in a lot of money and that Thailand "needs" them.

I'm not sure how "your money built this country" and demanding no money for visa deposits can possibly be in the same sentence...if he actually has money, he wouldn't have a problem depositing twice that amount in the bank.

42 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Try being Thai and getting a US tourist visa or permanent residence in Canada! Now there's some scrupulous paperwork! And it's often denied, some with no chance to reapply but always have to pay the fees one more time. Believe me, here in easy.

IF Cui is a genuine, dedicated Muay Thai student--Thai culture--then he should be allowed the 3 years. But at 40k/month, he's not much economic value to Thailand.

No appt slots at CW. Arriving at 830, I was #3078 and still got seen by 1pm and waited one-half hour.

My 35th retirement visa.

I do think long-term expats, say, 20 years, should be grandfathered in and get PR. Save lots of useless, free, 90-day paperwork so IOs could be freed to do visas.

Yes, keep that 800k or 400k in the bank, don't touch it. Mine will go to my wife at check-out time.

You can always reapply, but don't expect a different decision to be made unless the paperwork proves that the applicant will leave the country and has stronger ties to their home country than to America/Canada. In most cases, applicants who are denied should wait 6-12 months minimum before reapplying.

4 hours ago, Cabradelmar said:

So, Thailand is finally getting wise then... 30 day tourist visa exempt, fewer EDs, and DTVs. All makes sense when you look at how they've been abused in the past.

Same with the "retirement visa" being abused, plenty of folks, even in here, not meeting the requirement, asking which agents they can use to circumvent the requirements eg no 800K etc, essentially suborning corruption.

1 hour ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I do think long-term expats, say, 20 years, should be grandfathered in and get PR. Save lots of useless, free, 90-day paperwork so IOs could be freed to do visas

This is the grandfather clause on the current Police Order:

An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:

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3 hours ago, JerryM said:

If the agency route is dismantled, it will likely be because of the Bank of Thailand

It isn't (or wasnt) in January. I misinterpreted the "money in bank" rule and didn't transfered the 800K untill 3 month before renewal which the IO ofc came down upon. Agent and I went straight out the door, grabbed one of whatever the insiders are called in front of the IM, paid the fee (remembered it to be 15 or 20K) back in for the photo shoot and visa ready in a couple of days later.

On a different note. Before choosing an agent I was default quote the dodge procedure by the 3-4 agents I saw. This was in January -26

1 hour ago, BumGun said:

essentially suborning corruption

Right, corruption exists in Thailand because of the constant unlawful demands and pressure from evil individuals. How else could it be ...

6 hours ago, lou norman said:

I have lived here for 40 years and held a retires visa for 25 years. It costs me less than 100USD and takes half a day once a year. Its really not that difficult if you follow the rules.

I've been here (on Extensions of a Non-O Visa) for just over 15 years and yeah, I do my paperwork ahead of time, plan my trip to Immigration and when I get to the desk it usually doesn't take more than 4-5 minutes before I've paid my 1,900 baht and am walking out the door again. And then coming back the next day for the 2-3 minutes it takes to pick up my passport with my new Extension stamp.

Only had a minor problem once when I photocopied my updated bank book but the update was on a "new" page as the previous page was full.
Luckily I'd brought my bank book with me and the IO sent me off to get a photocopy of the previous page so they could verify my account balance had been correct for the previous year.

Zipped out, got the photocopy, signed it, handed it over and bingo ! I was on my way out the door.

It's never been a problem and certainly never needed an agent to do it for me for (20-25,000 baht) !

6 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

DTV was created with the goal of stimulating the economy - if he doesn't bring money he's not who the visa was created for. Even retirees bring in at least 65k/mo. It was really only a matter of time before they started cracking down on the DTV - it is too easy to get and it's bringing in poor people (in western terms) who want to simply exist without spending much.

"....................without spending much"

Even 40,000 baht a month is a lot more than the average Thai earns!

Also, why is it that for a visa extension based on retirement, the monthly financial requirement is 65,000 baht a month, and the financial requirement for an extension based on marriage to a Thai national (where the money is to cover the cost of living for 2 people (minimum), not 1, is only 40,000 baht a month?

One bar stool lawyer I spoke to said that a single man needs to have more money as he spends more money on lady drinks and bar fines!!!) 🤣

1 hour ago, BumGun said:

Same with the "retirement visa" being abused, plenty of folks, even in here, not meeting the requirement, asking which agents they can use to circumvent the requirements eg no 800K etc, essentially suborning corruption.

Sure. Plenty of abuse/abusers (including IOs on the take under these visa agent schemes) to go around. And whatever THA does (can do), the sooner the better, to but a stop to it, I applaud.

Hard to comment on a particular individuals situation, but in my view educational visas should be for those studying at a recognised educational facility, such as a university. Academic or Physical education. Not somchai’s boxing ring in a back alley or nok’s language studio above a massage shop.

But it’s up to Thailand what it deems to be “education”. None of my business.