iced water for our beloved

[meatboy]

as most of you know,we have a husky.apart from the tick problems the past couple of yrs.this has cropped up.

our boy is leaking urine,not through the day during 6am-4pm.every day I change his water morning,afternoon then again at 4pm.

at 4pm.i put 4ice cubes in his water,after a drink then it starts,he goes out for a 30minute walk at 5pm.then when he arrives home its a good drink

before diner.he is still leaking not a lot but enough to see it.then after diner its up to bed with me,NO LEAKING, if he wants a drink he gets half normal and half cold.

there is no leaking at all through the night and day till I give him an iced drink.

I have read quite a lot about it being dangerous and the same saying its safe.

anyone has any idea which is right or wrong,today I shant give him any iced water at all at 4pm.

his last visit to the vets march 2017 at khon kaen vetinary hospital he had an ultra scan amongst other x-rays and was given a clean bill of health.

liver and kidneys perfect.

the wife did mention the leaking on the phone to the vet,reply was we all leak a bit when we get OLD.

meatboy love me love my dog.

[Caiman]

I did notice this: "certain breeds are more prone to developing incontinence than others. These include Siberian huskies........."

[meatboy]

56 minutes ago, Caiman said:

I did notice this: "certain breeds are more prone to developing incontinence than others. These include Siberian huskies........."

thanks for your reply that's a relief,oops its ME NOW.

[VocalNeal]

1 hour ago, meatboy said:

there is no leaking ..... till I give him an iced drink.

Surely the obvious thing would be not to give him iced water. But hey....

 

More exercise?

[wildewillie89]

Re being dangerous, I think it is more of a myth. Some believe dogs can bloat due to ice, but no science to back that up. If it is an annoyance as it causes leakage then no real need to give it is there?

[meatboy]

43 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Surely the obvious thing would be not to give him iced water. But hey....

 

More exercise?

he will get none today,so I will post what happens, MORE EXERCISE me or the dog.?

[VocalNeal]

Together. 

[meatboy]

4pm.yesterday NO ICE,so he didn't drink a lot,there was a few drips,but nothing like previous.

we did have one almighty storm so there was no walk for him to relieve himself but nothing.

I would expect members with dogs to advise me to take him to the vets,but we have had all but one visits from vets an experience we don't want anymore.ROBBED,SCAMED,CHEATED,LIED TO with no thought for the welfare of our beloved.

pararsites on 2legs.who for 2yrs.used him as an ATM machine,nearly killed him and made him soooooo depressed.

the last 2visits to the vets,were a 10hr.round trip at khon kaen vetinary uni. who treated him with great respect and more than satisfied the wife with their service,but the 10hrs was very stressfull for him.

as he is part of our life paying whatever it costs doesn't come into it as long as he gets the right treatment.

its 5months since his last visit but we will have to find somewhere near soon,which I am not looking forward to.

[wildewillie89]

Surely you can take him to a vet and do a urinalysis and see the results yourself. Seeing as things were normal last March, if the pee test falls in the normal range then it is probably either a breed/age thing or a lifestyle thing, e.g. needs exercising more frequently/exercising different times of the day - it is suggested to certainly exercise dogs at least in the morning who have leakage problems. Or may just show an infection with a simple treatment. - I am assuming a full blood/tick test was done last visit also. 

Vets cant rob you if everything is normal (always ask to see the results), unless you allow them to rob you. If not normal then you will either need to do your 10 hour trip (if cant trust local vets), or do some of your own research and have discussions with the vet (if that is your only choice). 

Some vets are out to rob you, yes, but if you can have a scientific conversation with them I have found they are more than happy to cover all bases and try their hardest to find the underlining cause of the symptoms. A conversation isn't as scary as it seems as research back home is a good 20 odd years more advanced than here in terms of animals so doesn't take a science degree to comprehend a lot of it. They will automatically think you know your stuff so feel they wont be able to take advantage.

I initially learnt that the hard way as a naive new comer. I trusted the first vet I saw (who probably ripped me off a little bit). The second vet now treats my dogs the farang way - nothing, unless it is needed and we both agree on it. Better to be safe than sorry. 

[meatboy]

thanks for your reply WW89.if you only knew what they put our boy through.i can show you tests that were supposed to be carried out,the bags of medication that were given to us,[eg.antibiotics and steroids] to be taken at the same time.

blood tests with certain scores that went off the map,maybe about 15-20 tests over the past 2yrs.up to april of this yr.

the last local visit,we had a complete blood test done,and this is what we were told,his liver count was 9,990 and that he needed urgent attention.so that is when the wife decided to take him to KHON KAEN UNIVERSITY were a ct.scan,ultra sound and  x-rays were done, blood tests,snap test and a complete check over.many things that my wife told  the doctor were hard to believe.on the second visit in april he was given a complete bill of health.

anyway back to the topic yesterday only a very small drip or two,but NO ICED WATER.

I did notice before I stopped the ice he would drink a very large amount of iced water.

don't forget WW its difficult to give him too much exercise as he has a double coat.

first walk morning 6am.30mins.then its the same in the evening.

meatboy love me love my dog.

[wildewillie89]

Yeah, my last vet verbally told me things, I didn't like it so switched. Current vet shows the most simple graphic in the world which is incredibly self explanatory. Just shows where the dogs results are meant to be and where they are. The rest is just positive or negatives. The machine even bothers to put the dogs name, weight, age, breed etc. Given not too long after the blood are taken (30 minutes or so), so the vet has no time to do any scams. Vet will also see you again and go through each individual result explaining what they mean. 

I have a Caucasian, so built for the Soviet snowy conditions (although due to them being guardian dogs they have slightly higher tolerances of different types weather). I usually give her a big walk when the sun is going down/and continue into the night sometimes, and on weekends when no work a walk both morning and evening (roads are cooler, no sun).

Mornings on weekdays she will self exercise (various 50m sprints - width of property) as all the farm vehicles/cows/dogs/people walking past and continue to periodically throughout the day. Her thigh muscles now put mine to shame lol. It is hard, but Husky's do need vigorous exercise compared to the average dog. so maybe a slightly longer walk early morning (avoid puddles due to Leptospirosis), and in the evening. May help the leakage, as generally exercise is suggested with issues of leakage. If feed dry kibble just make sure you wait to feed her a couple hours re bloat. Although many believe exercise isn't a factor, it doesn't hurt to wait. 

Instead of ice water, maybe just use a wet towel or sometimes I will spray cool water on the dogs feet and under her belly/chest (in summer) - leave spray bottle in fridge. Also have a few of those kid sized pools that they use to mix concrete around the place she will jump in after a walk/run...maybe you could use it and dry off before going inside (advantage of the heat is they dry faster). The dog will stand in it, then the breeze will blow, so naturally cooling them down (rather than cooling too quickly with an air-con). My dog will stand in that maybe every couple of hours throughout the day. Growing up she loved being indoors, but as she got older and her instincts started to kick in she decided she would live outdoors, so needed to think of some ideas. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

one thing we have is the complete range of what a blood test should be,that came from kasetsart university so compareing is quite interesting.we do understand what every count means.

another scam we caught one so called animal hospital tried to take us to the cleaners was.

we took him for a FBC they told us we will take the blood to a big place in bkk.and have a true account.

they told us the test would be done in about 10hrs.time.the next day the vet phoned to say we have to go and get the result from her,she was held up in traffic and wont be back till late evening but not to worry.

then the next day we went to the surgery and was told he had kidney problem to which he needs them to be flushed out every day.little did she know my wife could read the test[creatinine] kidneys,this would cost a 1,000bht.each time.

the wife smelt a rat,something is not right with the test,so she phoned the lab that done the test and found out the sample of our boys blood had been presented 43hrs.after the take.the doctor at the clinic that done the test told the wife to completely disregard it.youve been caught you stupid bar stewards and the wife didn't take long to let them know.

nobody can challenge all what we say as we have the PROOF.

[wildewillie89]

3 hours ago, meatboy said:

one thing we have is the complete range of what a blood test should be,that came from kasetsart university so compareing is quite interesting.we do understand what every count means.

another scam we caught one so called animal hospital tried to take us to the cleaners was.

we took him for a FBC they told us we will take the blood to a big place in bkk.and have a true account.

they told us the test would be done in about 10hrs.time.the next day the vet phoned to say we have to go and get the result from her,she was held up in traffic and wont be back till late evening but not to worry.

then the next day we went to the surgery and was told he had kidney problem to which he needs them to be flushed out every day.little did she know my wife could read the test[creatinine] kidneys,this would cost a 1,000bht.each time.

the wife smelt a rat,something is not right with the test,so she phoned the lab that done the test and found out the sample of our boys blood had been presented 43hrs.after the take.the doctor at the clinic that done the test told the wife to completely disregard it.youve been caught you stupid bar stewards and the wife didn't take long to let them know.

nobody can challenge all what we say as we have the PROOF.

Each laboratory will have different ranges so make sure you take that into account. For example. my blood results look completely different at the government hospital compared to the private one down the road. Whatever my problem is will show up, but completely different numbers due to different systems. 

[meatboy]

17 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

Each laboratory will have different ranges so make sure you take that into account. For example. my blood results look completely different at the government hospital compared to the private one down the road. Whatever my problem is will show up, but completely different numbers due to different systems. 

I must say every test he had all the range and details of every one was identical.

I have a copy of all the tests and there is nothing that we don't understand,all done at an animal lab,

the only differencial results would come from using a lab that do the human tests.

I have my inr.done at a lab,and they told me they would never test a dogs blood and they have the latest equipment.

[wildewillie89]

55 minutes ago, meatboy said:

I must say every test he had all the range and details of every one was identical.

I have a copy of all the tests and there is nothing that we don't understand,all done at an animal lab,

the only differencial results would come from using a lab that do the human tests.

I have my inr.done at a lab,and they told me they would never test a dogs blood and they have the latest equipment.

Easy to read so easy not to be scammed.

 

But yes, get the urinalysis done for safe measure - re infection. 

[meatboy]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Easy to read so easy not to be scammed.

 

But yes, get the urinalysis done for safe measure - re infection. 

not easy to be scammed,it is when they can doctor the results.

about 2yrs.ago I started the topic,CAN WE TRUST BLOOD TESTS,the answer is NO.

there is an ex.vet in America who has written a book on the same subject I will find his name and post it very interesting.

[meatboy]

all pet owners should check this guy out.www.drplechner.com

[wildewillie89]

Interesting. Some of his ideas seem good, but I can also see why many are skeptical of him. His open refusal to do any peer reviewed research on his own methods seems to ring alarm bells to many. He gives a story about not wanting to give placebos/not treat dogs, but if his methods worked then a small amount of dogs suffering would create a remedy for a massive majority, so his logic is a little flawed from a consequentialism point of view (i.e trying to save the greatest number of dogs possible).  

There are vets out there you can trust, just need to search hard, would be hard for my vet to doc the results. Extremely busy so is treating other patients whilst we wait for the results. First time he sees them is when they get handed to him with us in the room. So far our dogs bloods have all been perfect. The in-laws dog tested positive to a tick disease which we knew she had because gave it to me. Just gave the standard doxy treatment and left it at that. 

I am all for holistic/natural vets though. Raw food, only core vaccines, no or late de-sexing (in the context of responsible dog owners). He just needs to do research on his methods to get the credibility he may well deserve from the vet world. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

just for interest WW what would you call standard doxy treatment.

oh another day without leakingstill NO ice.

if your ever up this way come and say hello to sam.

Edited September 9, 2017 by meatboy

[wildewillie89]

7 hours ago, meatboy said:

just for interest WW what would you call standard doxy treatment.

oh another day without leakingstill NO ice.

if your ever up this way come and say hello to sam.

Standard treatment is usually 10-21 days re Ehrlichiosis. The in laws dog was put on for 14 days. 

 

Good news re leakage.

[meatboy]

13 hours ago, Arjen said:

Interesting subject (late reply because overseas yet) All our dogs like to drink cold, and even iced water. I never noticed leakage problems, but sometimes some diarrea.

 

Arjen.

hi mate welcome home,i think the leaking was down to him drinking tooooooooooo much iced water,i normally give him half/half but I got lazy and each tea time before his walk I thought it easy just top his water with ice.

[meatboy]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:36 AM, Caiman said:

I did notice this: "certain breeds are more prone to developing incontinence than others. These include Siberian huskies........."

once again it concerns me as he has been leaking,now looking up what treaments are available without going to the vets,it seems that a new,very safe med is now available called phenylpropanolamine [PROIN CHEWABLES] 

I have also come across a cause that maybe coincides with nervous behavour [the affect of LIGHTNING] that has made him very nervous.never before have I seen him like that.

the vetinary hospital uni.in khon kaen could find nothing wrong with his bladder,kidney's and as the leaking was minimal told the wife not to worry.tues.and wed.there was very little but today we gave him a bath [which he don't like] I wonder did that trigger the leaking.you all know I worry toooooooooooo much but I cant help it.

what do you think guys and DD.

[wildewillie89]

4 hours ago, meatboy said:

once again it concerns me as he has been leaking,now looking up what treaments are available without going to the vets,it seems that a new,very safe med is now available called phenylpropanolamine [PROIN CHEWABLES] 

I have also come across a cause that maybe coincides with nervous behavour [the affect of LIGHTNING] that has made him very nervous.never before have I seen him like that.

the vetinary hospital uni.in khon kaen could find nothing wrong with his bladder,kidney's and as the leaking was minimal told the wife not to worry.tues.and wed.there was very little but today we gave him a bath [which he don't like] I wonder did that trigger the leaking.you all know I worry toooooooooooo much but I cant help it.

what do you think guys and DD.

I would be wary of the drug, try any natural ways and exercise before giving it to him. I hear parsley is effective for some dogs and recommended by some vets. I think people give 1 table spoon of fresh parsley for every 65 lb of dog. 

From my understanding Phenylpropanolamine was banned for humans 17 years ago due to it causing things like strokes and bleeding of the brain - primarily for women. Used to be sold as a nasal decongestant - which is what it is used for dogs and also for urinary incontinence.  

 

Seems to hit dogs blood pressure quite frequently. But like any drug depends a lot on the breed. Usually in the companies studies Beagles are chose for good reason...they are extremely tolerant to testing - other breeds, not so much. 

Although there are chances that dogs can overdose/react to it, with special treatment/supportive care (at a vet) the prognosis is excellent if spotted early from one study I saw ages ago. I read some dog forums briefly (not at all science), that claim from personal experience the drug is amazing for 70% of dogs and kills the rest. Beagles did die in the testing of the drug also. Not even Bravecto or Nexgard killed off the Beagles. 

 

Look out for these adverse reactions (157 dogs over 6 month period were given the drug): 

 

Hypertension (≥160 mmHg)1.

34.6%

Body weight loss (≥5%)

24.8%

Emesis

19.7%

Proteinuria

15.3%

Anorexia

10.2%

Diarrhea

6.4%

Lethargy

5.7%

Anxiety/aggressive/behaviour change

5.7%

 

It is hard as your dog is an inside dog. Maybe if you can just restrict the dog to tiled areas, I would just be letting it pee to be honest. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

In saying that, don't take what you see on dog forums too seriously. Yes, many cases are legitimate reactions, but a lot of it is other health problems that owners just want to blame on different drugs. 

Possible for the dog to wear nappies even some of the time - if the leakage happens at certain times of the day?

[meatboy]

11 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

I would be wary of the drug, try any natural ways and exercise before giving it to him. I hear parsley is effective for some dogs and recommended by some vets. I think people give 1 table spoon of fresh parsley for every 65 lb of dog. 

From my understanding Phenylpropanolamine was banned for humans 17 years ago due to it causing things like strokes and bleeding of the brain - primarily for women. Used to be sold as a nasal decongestant - which is what it is used for dogs and also for urinary incontinence.  

 

Seems to hit dogs blood pressure quite frequently. But like any drug depends a lot on the breed. Usually in the companies studies Beagles are chose for good reason...they are extremely tolerant to testing - other breeds, not so much. 

Although there are chances that dogs can overdose/react to it, with special treatment/supportive care (at a vet) the prognosis is excellent if spotted early from one study I saw ages ago. I read some dog forums briefly (not at all science), that claim from personal experience the drug is amazing for 70% of dogs and kills the rest. Beagles did die in the testing of the drug also. Not even Bravecto or Nexgard killed off the Beagles. 

 

Look out for these adverse reactions (157 dogs over 6 month period were given the drug): 

 

Hypertension (≥160 mmHg)1.

34.6%

Body weight loss (≥5%)

24.8%

Emesis

19.7%

Proteinuria

15.3%

Anorexia

10.2%

Diarrhea

6.4%

Lethargy

5.7%

Anxiety/aggressive/behaviour change

5.7%

 

It is hard as your dog is an inside dog. Maybe if you can just restrict the dog to tiled areas, I would just be letting it pee to be honest. 

if he does leak a bit downstairs its not that a problem[its all tiles] as for upstairs there is never any sort of leaking,even after drinking and not going out,but he does lick the area around his ?when he's out walking [morn./evening] he might leak a bit before washing down someone's tire.as for parsly,the wife has never seen any fresh.i got plenty of dry.

thanks WW.

[meatboy]

what do you think about this guys and DD.

I have always gone on the PETMD web site and always found it gives out good info.

so lets have a look at what could be causing our boy to LEAK /NERVOUSNESS,AND LICKING.

petmd. say's a big cause of your dog being nervous is THUNDER/LIGHTNING.and top of the list is Siberian husky's.

yesterday,no thunder or lighting NO leaking,so over the last 4days just some during bath time.WED.

he is eating well,no trouble passing water and his bowels perfect,he just seems not his jovial self.

meatboy love me love my dog.

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, meatboy said:

what do you think about this guys and DD.

I have always gone on the PETMD web site and always found it gives out good info.

so lets have a look at what could be causing our boy to LEAK /NERVOUSNESS,AND LICKING.

petmd. say's a big cause of your dog being nervous is THUNDER/LIGHTNING.and top of the list is Siberian husky's.

yesterday,no thunder or lighting NO leaking,so over the last 4days just some during bath time.WED.

he is eating well,no trouble passing water and his bowels perfect,he just seems not his jovial self.

meatboy love me love my dog.

It does sound as if iced water was a major contributory factor as, once you gave up the iced water, the leaking stopped until he became nervous or frightened.

 

There seem to be a few odd things happening here as 1) he's only recently become so frightened of thunder/lightning 2) he's only recently started leaking 3) he's not his normal "jovial self" and 4) he's only recently started the licking (and only whilst on walks?)

 

Point 3) makes it particularly worrying, so I'm not at all suprised that you're v concerned and I don't think you're over-reacting in view of the combination of odd symptoms.  Sadly, over the past year I've had a lot of experience of dogs 'leaking', but there were known medical reasons and neither became suddenly nervous/frightened.

 

I'm FAR less knowledgeable than either you or wildewilli89, and as you've already had all the blood tests possible, can only suggest an MRI scan (if possible - X rays/ultrasounds if not) to check for any possible problems.  More than likely OTT and un-necessary, but it seems as if something is wrong, so probably worth carrying out all checks possible.

[meatboy]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It does sound as if iced water was a major contributory factor as, once you gave up the iced water, the leaking stopped until he became nervous or frightened.

 

There seem to be a few odd things happening here as 1) he's only recently become so frightened of thunder/lightning 2) he's only recently started leaking 3) he's not his normal "jovial self" and 4) he's only recently started the licking (and only whilst on walks?)

 

Point 3) makes it particularly worrying, so I'm not at all suprised that you're v concerned and I don't think you're over-reacting in view of the combination of odd symptoms.  Sadly, over the past year I've had a lot of experience of dogs 'leaking', but there were known medical reasons and neither became suddenly nervous/frightened.

 

I'm FAR less knowledgeable than either you or wildewilli89, and as you've already had all the blood tests possible, can only suggest an MRI scan (if possible - X rays/ultrasounds if not) to check for any possible problems.  More than likely OTT and un-necessary, but it seems as if something is wrong, so probably worth carrying out all checks possible.

thanks DD worrying A BIG YES,he just came in from outside since 5.30am and has leaked a great deal.

I don't think the wife will be too happy when she comes home,she to loves him as much as me.

[dick dasterdly]

30 minutes ago, meatboy said:

thanks DD worrying A BIG YES,he just came in from outside since 5.30am and has leaked a great deal.

I don't think the wife will be too happy when she comes home,she to loves him as much as me.

The only other 'tip' I can offer re. a little leaking, is to always have a bucket/mop on-hand to quickly wash the urine from floors and to put 'urine protector' pads down in his favourite resting spots on sofas etc.

[wildewillie89]

Thai have that Buddhist festival at the moment, is that a factor where you are? So for a couple of weeks where we are there will be fireworks and crackers going off all day and night (annoying for even me let alone a dog). Possibly is it is happening in your area or within hearing distance of your dog (which would be many kms) causing nervousness?

 

My dogs do all right with it, they react at the ones as loud as gun shots but that is more of an aggressive reaction to protect. The in laws dog has a lot of difficulties with this every year though. Bloody ridiculous thing to do. Kids just end up blowing their hands off and dogs end up going crazy.

Edited October 7, 2017 by wildewillie89