คนขอทาน

[Deserted]

Hello there I had a discussion with someone near where I live. He pointed out some people walking past and got into an argument with them, calling them คนขอทาน. My understanding of that word was that it was neutral and not negative yet when they walked past he described them to me as peasants. I said to him [he is Swedish] that 'peasant' is a very negative word in English and the word he used  คนขอทาน is not but I am not so sure here. So is the word he used rude and does Thai have an equivalent of what he was trying to say. He certainly didn't like the woman and her husband, who did seem rather drunk. I have heard him use the word 'peasant' a few times before but from what I understand คนขอทานis closer to someone in need of money whatever their background maybe. Could someone please clarify here. 

 

Thanks

[manarak]

from my understanding, it means beggar

[Deserted]

Yes I think so but a peasant is a bit stronger than that and refers to someone's social status rather than what they ask from people on the street. I tried to explain this to him but I do not know what the Thai equivalent of peasant is, if it does exist.  

[Oxx]

Whilst คนขอทาน literally means "someone who asks for alms", it's generally used in a much more specific sense of a beggar who sings for money, a synonym of วนิพก.

[Seligne2]

I refer to rural poor folks (the majority of the world's population) as คนบ้านนอก. No Thai has yet corrected me.

[Deserted]

ok thanks, and that is a negative term or neutral term?

[Jeddah Jo]

This is still quite a feudal society. A large percentage of the population are basically peasants and there is no real stigma to being called one if you are one I.e just a villager or chao baan. You have to remember it wasn't that long ago Thailand had slavery so given the choice between being a slave or being a peasant then being a peasant sounds like quite a sweet deal. Kon kor taan just means a beggar. To insult someone's social status a Thai person might say kon dtam or a low person.

[Covertjay]

So where would 'prai' fit into this? A word I've heard used in a negative way and even some sort of use it in a reclaiming way. 

[Jeddah Jo]

From what I have read I think Prai historically might be something like an indentured servant with an owner or lord. Probably closer to a true European peasant. These days it is used as an offensive term for somebody low or contemptible.

[Oxx]

21 minutes ago, Covertjay said:

So where would 'prai' fit into this? A word I've heard used in a negative way and even some sort of use it in a reclaiming way. 

According to the Royal Institute Dictionary, the word is antiquated.  However, it's defined as พลเมือง, ประชาชน, ราษฎรสามัญ - nothing negative there.

[Deserted]

1 hour ago, Jeddah Jo said:

This is still quite a feudal society. A large percentage of the population are basically peasants and there is no real stigma to being called one if you are one I.e just a villager or chao baan. You have to remember it wasn't that long ago Thailand had slavery so given the choice between being a slave or being a peasant then being a peasant sounds like quite a sweet deal. Kon kor taan just means a beggar. To insult someone's social status a Thai person might say kon dtam or a low person.

Thailand cannot be described as feudal for obvious reasons. 

[Jeddah Jo]

One example of a negative use of the word 'prai'.

 

ข้าไม่มีลูกสันดานไพร่อย่างเอ็งหรอก

 

[Seligne2]

19 hours ago, Deserted said:

ok thanks, and that is a negative term or neutral term?

My impression is that it is not pejorative. I have not asked anyone to confirm this directly, but no one seems to take offense. (My criterion for a person being a "ban nok" (rustic) is if they live in a village with no 7-Eleven. More to do with where they live rather than who they are.)

[tgeezer]

One example of a negative use of the word 'prai'.

 

ข้าไม่มีลูกสันดานไพร่อย่างเอ็งหรอก

 

The perjorative aspect part I think that I see: ลูกสันดานไพร่ = ไพร่ as an adjective is comparable to เลว

I guess that it's in the first person ผม not คนใช้ ?

ไม่มีลูก No I/she do not/does not have a child

Is the rest spoken language, with redundancy which can't be explained?

อย่างเอง = ไม่ใช่อย่างอื่น หรอก = ไม่ใช่คน/สิ่งอื่น

.

 

 

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[eric67]

4 hours ago, tgeezer said:

I guess that it's in the first person ผม not คนใช้ ?

ไม่มีลูก No I/she do not/does not have a child

Is the rest spoken language, with redundancy which can't be explained?

อย่างเอง = ไม่ใช่อย่างอื่น หรอก = ไม่ใช่คน/สิ่งอื่น

 

ข้า and เอ็ง (not เอง) are 1st and 2nd person pronouns, slightly more polite than กู and มึง, but not much...

 

As for บ้านนอก, it's a normal informal word, but it's often used as an insult to look down upon "those stupid isan country bumpkins".

So depending on who says it and in what tone, it can be pejorative.

If you want to play it safe, you can use ต่างจังหวัด

[tgeezer]

 
ข้า and เอ็ง (not เอง) are 1st and 2nd person pronouns, slightly more polite than กู and มึง, but not much...
 
As for บ้านนอก, it's a normal informal word, but it's often used as an insult to look down upon "those stupid isan country bumpkins".
So depending on who says it and in what tone, it can be pejorative.
If you want to play it safe, you can use ต่างจังหวัด

I see it now. That does make a huge difference!


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[tgeezer]

 
ข้า and เอ็ง (not เอง) are 1st and 2nd person pronouns, slightly more polite than กู and มึง, but not much...
 
As for บ้านนอก, it's a normal informal word, but it's often used as an insult to look down upon "those stupid isan country bumpkins".
So depending on who says it and in what tone, it can be pejorative.
If you want to play it safe, you can use ต่างจังหวัด

Here are some questions:
Should you use บ้านนอก to describe someone if you are not in Bangkok?
Can anyone substitute ต่างจังหวัด for บ้านนอก ?




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[DiveDove]

I think คนขอทาน refers to people who live off others like a leech. Basically, they are good-for-nothing and they are good at asking for money, this and that.

 

As for the difference between บ้านนอก and ต่าวจังหวัด:

 

Generally speaking,

 

บ้านนอก = rural area; not in city area.

 

ตจว = province that thais are not living in.

 

บ้านนอก is a subset of province. A province is divided into city/town area and rural area.

 

I don't think the usage of บ้านนอก nowadays is meant to be used as an insult. However, context and tone of words spoken are important.

 

If Thais from x province are working in the city area of Bangkok/Chiang Mai and they are going back home during Thai festivals/holidays, it's common to hear them say กลับบ้าน(นอก). Thais who are not born in Bangkok and use เป็นคนบ้านนอก/กลับบ้าน use it as a kind of self-deprecating humor.

 

 

[tgeezer]

Nice one DiveDove, we all see things slightly differently. My view of บ้านนอก is that it is jocular, if it were otherwise I wouldn't use it. Used to describe someone I would mean 'a yocal'. I describe myself as living บ้านนอก in UK and I expect people to recognise it as not in a city or town, certainly not London. Since they are my friends I am being self deprecating also, as you say.
People going home to Isaan are doing just that, going home' (กลับบ้าน) where they have family and roots, I have never thought that they think of home as บ้านนอก.
ขอทาน depends on your point of view, I say that it means 'beggar' or 'to beg'. I think that I would rather ignore them than accuse them of being beggars especially since I am a farang and thought to be in a position to help. Where I live in Bangkok there are not many beggars when I am out, I think that they turn up in the cool of the evening when there are more punters about.



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[tgeezer]

Here is how a chap who has just graduated feels about บ้านนอก
From Facebook a picture of his graduation from มหาวิทยาลัยเทคโนโลยีราชมงคลธัญบุรี "Rajamangala University of Technology Tanyaburi Satadium."j

.....ขอบคุณคนะสถาปัตยกรรมศาศตร์ที่เป็นจุดเริ่มต้นทำให้เด็กบ้านนอกคนนึง...


Anybody have any thoughts on the English version of the university and คนนึง ?


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