Tourists Complain Of Being Cheated In Double Pricing Scams

[sriracha john]

Ahhhh... another thread to which the following is appropriate:

Sorry to have not noticed this month's version of this monthly thread earlier:

I have never heard of a tax id and work permit in tandem NOT get someone in at local prices.

Just off the top of my head and to be quite specific from personal experiences, the following parks would accept ONLY Thai National ID cards for admission at Thai prices:

Pang Sida National Park

Huay Huat National Park

Khao Sam Roi Yot National Marine Park

It is a highly inconsistent policy extended across the country which lends itself to abuse and charges of racism/favoritism, and creates a great deal of resentment. Certainly not worth the ill will it generates.

It's a shame when those in power to effect change ignore the recommendations of those with brains. The solution is right in front of their noses:

Dr. Adis Israngkura, an economist at Chiang Mai University and a consultant to Thailand's first and foremost "think tank" (Thailand Development Research Institute) conducted a research project for TDRI on this very topic and wrote the best paper, "Determining entrance fees to national parks: the case of Thailand" that I have ever encountered on the subject.

The paper, published in 2001, made the following recommendations:

1. Higher fees, for all, to the more popular parks with many facilities, which can subsidize the smaller parks with very few facilities.

2. Higher fees, for all, on long week-ends/holidays when parks tend to be heavily visited to help ease congestion and lessen environmental degradation, which will result in increased visitor satisfaction.

3. Annual memberships and lifetime memberships should be offered and available to all.

4. Both Thai and foreigners should pay the same entrance fee, but special services should be made available to the foreign visitor for additional higher fees, such as English-speaking tour/travel guides or English-language information booklets/maps. "The current policy unnecessarily jeopardizes the the image of the overall tourism industry."

5. Entrances fees should be exempted for the elderly, the handicapped, and children visiting on school trips.

I think when experts, and Thai himself, recognizes it as a problem, it's VERY telling....

[gazzz]

This is nothing. I had a couple of glass of whisky in China for 65,000 Baht. They've screwed me quite well. I agree with some posts that this crappy mentality of ripping richer folks is from chinese culture...

And you piad it ??????????????????????

i read somebody,s post about the study caried out in london and pretended not to speak english then were overcharged

however here you only have to look different then they over charge you stupidly assuming you dont speak a word of thai !!!

this kind of treatment is bo%&^%ks and should not be tolerated why dont they simply have the same price for everybody regardless of race or which language we all speak

[mikeinminburi]

A few dishes for 10 guests. They must have left both hungry AND broke!

Why did they pay?

Hmmm. Fear of arrest for not paying a bill for items consumed would work for most.

They certainly should have demanded a detailed explanation of the bill.

You really think the con-merchants would have called the police if the customers had offered to pay a fair price but not the con price? It should be the other way around - if they con-men won't accept the fair price the customers should call the tourist police - then see how the price changes. It worked surprisingly well for me with a rogue taxi driver who suddenly turned the meter off and demanded 500 baht off me. When I called the tourist police on my mobile and told him in thai that the police wanted to speak to him - amazingly the ride became free. Its the tourists that allow this kind of thing to happen to them that encourage it. If no one put up with it it wouldn't flourish.

completly agree with you on that. several times they tried it to myself.

also on a bus journey the bus stopped for 15 mins for a break. ( was a long journey )

when the bus driver came back from the bathroom, himself and a thai lady went around to everyone telling them they need to pay 100 baht to enter the town that we are approaching.

funny they only said it to the foreigners.

since i was new in thailand, i didnt understand really, but an american about 5 seats in front of me called the tourist police. from what i remember the driver and the thai lady were fined and the bus company had to replace their staff.

but true to what you said, if no one puts up with it, it wouldn't flourish.

was also on a song tau in pattaya when the us navy were around. the guy from the navy didnt have change and handed the driver a 1000 baht note. he got a purple back and the driver drove off.

so its also thai's that do it.... its not 100% farang stupidity when they put their hands in their pockets.

[Jayman]

I'm a longterm resident and I pay my taxes. Therefore, I have a tax ID card. It has never failed. I present this card and say that I work here and I am not a tourist.

I'm not to keen about double tier pricing, but Law of the Universe #217 Subsection A states: Tourists shall pay more for everything.

In the U.S., when driving through a national park or paying for tickets to the Chicago Museum, no one will charge you extra for being from a foreign country. However, for a person with little English capacity on the streets everything is possible: from scam to murder.

I thought it was common knowledge for those that have been here awhile but I guess not. All you need to have in order to get the Thai price is a Thai drivers license. You just show the Thai license when you pay and they will give you the Thai price. No questions asked. You don't have to even say anything. This has been the case no matter where in Thailand I have been, be it at the Ripley's Museum in Pattaya to the Marine center in Phuket and everywhere else they have 2 prices posted. So for those of you complaining about the double price standard, don't try and fight the system, just pay your 70thb for a motorcycle license (110thb for a car) and you will get the Thai price everywhere.

As for the comment about NO double pricing in America, think again. Disneyland (and most other parks) have more than one price. 1 price for locals and 1 for tourists. You can goto their web site and see for yourself. This is nothing new folks. I'm not saying it's fair or correct but it's definitely not anything new and not a "Thai" thing.

When I first came to Thailand with the USAF, we were all given a small book with cultural rules and practices. It clearly stated that anyone who accepts the first price given for goods or services is considered foolish by the Thais. You are expected to haggle for everything (other than items/services with a price clearly marked on them). That is what we were taught when first coming here so that is exactly what I have been doing for the past 15 years. In fact, I find in many cases by haggling with a smile on my face I can often times get a better price than Thais. Believe it or not, it's your choice. But a smile and slight knowledge of the spoken Thai numbers will get you very far in this country.

[tuky]

Well how about the double price smams AGAINST Thais???

I heard that a bus ticket to Kho Samui the other day, would cost 450 for a ferang or 700 baht for a Thai.

Secondly - FERANG ARE RICHER THAN THAIS - its a fact. Paying an extra quid for something when we can easily afford it is fine by me - stop being such tight fisted @*$&@($%&$($('s

:-)

What on Earth is a Ferang?

sums this post up

[Tony Clifton]

Ferengis.

Ferangs

[grahamhc]

Not only in Thailand! When I was staying in Sri Lanka, we went up to the Ancient City.

It was so far up in the hills very few people went there. The rich Sri Lankans in their chauffer driven Pajeros were admited for ONE RUPEE each, whereas I had to pay 12 USD. The public transport there was "interesting" and overcrowded .

Another goverment who believed that tourists are there to be fleeced. Why not set a "Per vehicle" price and base it on vehicle type, Pajeros being the highest. Oh well, I can always dream.

I found it worth 12 USD. Surely those rich Sri Lankans would have found it the same........

[falux]

Some research was done on this scenario in London a few years ago, where they sent out some people, who pretended not to speak English ("Solly, no speakee Ingrit") to buy simple things like a can of pepsi from a street vendor, and many of them were overcharged. I'm not excusing it here, just making the point that its not unique to Thailand.

By the way, I took out my wallet to pay the 400 baht National Park fee on Koh Samet the other day, and when the official saw my Thai Driver's Licence he only charged me 40 baht. Good for me, but the tourist friends I was with were mightily p****ed off with it!

G

I'm a longterm resident and I pay my taxes. Therefore, I have a tax ID card. It has never failed. I present this card and say that I work here and I am not a tourist.

I'm not to keen about double tier pricing, but Law of the Universe #217 Subsection A states: Tourists shall pay more for everything.

In the U.S., when driving through a national park or paying for tickets to the Chicago Museum, no one will charge you extra for being from a foreign country. However, for a person with little English capacity on the streets everything is possible: from scam to murder.

I only got overcharged 1 time, even though I showed work permit / driving license / social sec. I told my GF to tell the cashier that he's an idiot and went in for free (I simply did not pay at all). I would not recommend it as a general practice though.

[chuchok]

Well how about the double price smams AGAINST Thais???

I heard that a bus ticket to Kho Samui the other day, would cost 450 for a ferang or 700 baht for a Thai.

Secondly - FERANG ARE RICHER THAN THAIS - its a fact. Paying an extra quid for something when we can easily afford it is fine by me - stop being such tight fisted @*$&@($%&$($('s

:-)

What on Earth is a Ferang?

sums this post up

Depends on where you are from as how to spell it.Personally,I think it should be spelt farung...but every other bugger spells it farang,which to me sounds similar to mirange..

[Jayman]

One scam that hasn't been mentioned yet. Businesses accepting payment with a credit card but adding a 3% charge on top. Has happened to me twice so far, they both lost a sale, not small items either.

Umm...I'm not sure I'd call that a scam. The credit card processors charge the merchants a service fee ranging from 2%-4% depending on their merchant account and the type of credit card processed. This is true all over the world and how the CC companies make their money. Most of the smaller stores that accept credit cards (even hotels, travel agents, and restaurants) will pass that right on to you. They are very upfront about it if you ask them. The larger stores like Big-C and Lotus just eat that charge but most places that don't charge the % will also require you to make a minimum purchase. I know for a fact that most petrol stations in Thailand are like this. No extra charge for paying with credit but must buy at least 800thb in petrol (min. amount varies).

This is the case NO MATTER where the credit card was issued. My wife has several credit cards from SBC and we face this all the time. We were eating at MK and even they wanted to add the 3% to our bill if we paid with a credit card. And they advertise SBC credit cards all over that restaurant.

When paying with a credit card ANYWHERE, you should always ask if there will be a service charge for using credit and how much for the particular type of card you are using (ie. Master card, Visa, AMEX (the highest fee))

[Tony Clifton]

We were looking at a 53 000 baht purchase. Upon hearing about the 3%, my wife told the salesman it was illegal and that she'd call the credit card company to tell them about it. She also mentioned once before that it was illegal. I personally don't know, not a big credit card user.

[Johpa]

We were looking at a 53 000 baht purchase. Upon hearing about the 3%, my wife told the salesman it was illegal and that she'd call the credit card company to tell them about it. She also mentioned once before that it was illegal. I personally don't know, not a big credit card user.

In the US, it is against the merchant's contract with their credit card processor, as enforced by the VISA/Mastercard consortium (AKA Merchant Services) to assess a surcharge or declare a minimum amount for a purchase. The basis of this ruling goes back to laws made in the late 1950s when gas companies began issuing credit cards and giving out green stamps, decades before generic credit cards were common, and was designed to prevent imagined abuses. The laws are kept on the books in the US more for marketing purposes and for the benefit of the consortium than for anything else. Many merchants now flaunt the minimum purchase requirement and the consortium has not responded although they will threaten to revoke your agreement if they get complaints about a surcharge. By the way, the laws do allow to give a cash discount, just no surcharge. And if you are in the US, look close at the very small print on your friendly ATM payment machine at the fast food eateries where there is up to a $1 added fee for using a debit card, which is about a 20% surcharge for a single meal, and that is legal if it is a debit card.

Not all countries have the same laws and many countries do allow for a surcharge. And even in the US, some companies add a 3% surcharge or declare a minimum purchase ( I have a minimum $5 purchase at my store). I do not know the exact laws in Thailand, but I have seen a 3% surcharge in many places for years in LOS. It is one thing to moan about such surcharges in high margin usages such as restaurants and hotels, but one should not moan too loud when asked for the surcharge in smaller shops.

And when you do use your mileage for a free air ticket, remember that it is the people who accept that card who have payed for that fair at full rack rate out of their own pocket, and you are welcome.

[nikster]

I am wondering why no tourist complaint about the double pricing at the National Parks.

40 THB Thai, 400 THB foreigners is a joke!

I have friends that just returned from Thailand. They experienced exactly what you mentioned, down to the last red cent. They were charged 40 THB because one of them was Thai. Other tourists were charged 400 THB.

I think this is a much bigger problem than when some vendors or crooks do this. Everyone understands that tourists are getting ripped off and Thailand is better than many.

But the Thai government overcharging tourists at an insane rate is something else entirely. 400 baht is probably not enough to turn away foreign tourists from the entrance after they have already made their way there, but it's definitely something they will remember and it will leave a sour taste. And the decision to overcharge farangs only, and make them pay 10x the price as well is an official government decision. People will remember this. It hurts Thailand's image.

I know that I hated the same thing in Cuba. On national campgrounds there, they have prices written in pesos. Foreigners pay the same price, except in U.S. Dollars! I went to one of those once and never again. And I didn't see any other tourists there.

[nikster]

We were looking at a 53 000 baht purchase. Upon hearing about the 3%, my wife told the salesman it was illegal and that she'd call the credit card company to tell them about it. She also mentioned once before that it was illegal. I personally don't know, not a big credit card user.

In the US, it is against the merchant's contract with their credit card processor, as enforced by the VISA/Mastercard consortium (AKA Merchant Services) to assess a surcharge or declare a minimum amount for a purchase. The basis of this ruling goes back to laws made in the late 1950s when gas companies began issuing credit cards and giving out green stamps, decades before generic credit cards were common, and was designed to prevent imagined abuses.

Interesting - thanks for that bit of history. I knew that Visa rules forbid this but I thought that was just to hide the true cost of the credit card from consumers.

I find the 3% surcharge a much more honest way to deal with it. Its a fact that there is a cost involved with credit card payment even though 3% is a total rip-off from Visa's side in my opinion. And it's better to pass that on to the consumer than to have everyone pay the inflated Visa price even on cash purchases - if you so will when the store passes the 3% on to you, then you have the option to pay or not (and pay in cash). If the store just charges 3% either way, it benefits neither you nor the store - it only benefits Visa/MC.

To make it perfectly clear - the stores that don't charge a 3% on Visa purchases are much worse because they actually charge 3% on everything including cash, they just don't tell you. Except the large chain stores like Tesco and so on, these get much better rates from Visa, something like 1% or 0.5%.

Edited February 9, 2007 by nikster

[peter991]

If you are worried about paying an extra 3% - you need to do some quick maths. Find out if you are better paying using your credit card - and getting charged an extra 3% OR taking your credit card to an ATM and getting a Cash Advance and paying 18% - levied from the day you take out the cash - there's no interest-free days if you get a cash advance.

Peter

[Dakhar]

Credit card:

Yes in the US legally you can not have a extra fee. But in knowing this, vendors should jack up their prices in the first place to offset overhead created by credit cards.

Thailand has so few credit cards used, I don't think vendors allow for credit card use when they figure their margin/overhead numbers.

SOme fella posted, he never gets scammed..... How would you know? A good con, never gets caught...

My scam storry. My family and I went to a hotel on the outskirts of Pataya. It was NY Eve, and the hotel was throwing a party. My wife asked the lady at the counter, how much was it to attend the party. I think the fee was 200$ a head. My wife asked, if we could purchase the ability to attend latter, "make up our minds latter" type thing. The lady at the counter said sure.

Well, we decided not to go, I mean really it was expensive. Then we get a phone call, tell us to cough up 1,000 USD for all the members of our group, or else the would kick us out! My wife said you guys are crazy, and unplugged the phone.

Some hotel staff went to my parents room, and kicked them out. My father was very angry, and said he was going to call the police. THe staff said the "police are our friends." So then the staff comes to our room, and tries to kick us out. I took the key, put in my pocket, and went down to the lobby.

There it got ugly. My mother in law was yelling her lungs out, throwing whatever should could find.... it was a real riot. Finally the police showed up, along with some upper management fellow.

He apologized, and gave us a better room.....

The next morning, the hotel tried to charge us for the upgrade!!!!!! We did not pay.

[DisainaM]

double pricing - OMG

last time, in spain, ibiza,

the ferry from ibiza to formentera,

there are 3 prices,

- Residentes in formentera,

- Residentes in Baleares (lets say spanish people)

- No Residents (lets say tourist)

so, its reality, all over this world

[Tony Clifton]

Credit card:

Yes in the US legally you can not have a extra fee. But in knowing this, vendors should jack up their prices in the first place to offset overhead created by credit cards.

Thailand has so few credit cards used, I don't think vendors allow for credit card use when they figure their margin/overhead numbers.

SOme fella posted, he never gets scammed..... How would you know? A good con, never gets caught...

My scam storry. My family and I went to a hotel on the outskirts of Pataya. It was NY Eve, and the hotel was throwing a party. My wife asked the lady at the counter, how much was it to attend the party. I think the fee was 200$ a head. My wife asked, if we could purchase the ability to attend latter, "make up our minds latter" type thing. The lady at the counter said sure.

Well, we decided not to go, I mean really it was expensive. Then we get a phone call, tell us to cough up 1,000 USD for all the members of our group, or else the would kick us out! My wife said you guys are crazy, and unplugged the phone.

Some hotel staff went to my parents room, and kicked them out. My father was very angry, and said he was going to call the police. THe staff said the "police are our friends." So then the staff comes to our room, and tries to kick us out. I took the key, put in my pocket, and went down to the lobby.

There it got ugly. My mother in law was yelling her lungs out, throwing whatever should could find.... it was a real riot. Finally the police showed up, along with some upper management fellow.

He apologized, and gave us a better room.....

The next morning, the hotel tried to charge us for the upgrade!!!!!! We did not pay.

Cr@p like this should be reported to TAT.

[Thaddeus]

Well how about the double price smams AGAINST Thais???

I heard that a bus ticket to Kho Samui the other day, would cost 450 for a ferang or 700 baht for a Thai.

Secondly - FERANG ARE RICHER THAN THAIS - its a fact. Paying an extra quid for something when we can easily afford it is fine by me - stop being such tight fisted @*$&@($%&$($('s

:-)

What on Earth is a Ferang?

It's a female Meringue

Thailand - Good

Double pricing - Bad

Magic Roundabout - Time for bed said Zebedee

[tolsti]

double pricing - OMG

last time, in spain, ibiza,

the ferry from ibiza to formentera,

there are 3 prices,

- Residentes in formentera,

- Residentes in Baleares (lets say spanish people)

- No Residents (lets say tourist)

so, its reality, all over this world

This is not simple dual or even triple pricing. This structure also exists among the Canary Islands and is an officially sponsored Spanish Government programme.

It accepts that the normal wage on the islands is in fact lower that on the mainland. In addition it realises that if there were no incentive or benefit then everyone would leave and go to the mainland. This discount allows residents to visit family etc. on the mainland or on other islands, encourages them to trade inter-island and to maintain their particlar identity. In essence it helps to ensure the ongoing viability of these island which may be some distance from the Spanish Coast.

It is not limited to Spanish people... it is available to anyone who has an official Residencia which means that they are actually legally there, paying taxes and enjoying thence the benefits of their legal status in Spain.

I agree with charging Thai people less that tourists for entrance to National Parks and monuments. Sorry, but it is the Thai heritage we are talking about and they should be able to visit it free of chargeand if not then at a lower rate that reflects the lower income. Why should only rich foreigners be able to see the national treasures. The Russians accept this and if you go to the Tretyakov gallery in Moscow as a foreigner you will pay more than a Russian citizen, just as you will on the trains and aiplanes.

Minimum purchase limits on credit and debit cards are becoming more widespread worldwide and,are in my view, one of the major obstacles (apart from fraud) to the cashless society. But it is the price we pay for low or non existent card fees and 0% interest if we pay our balance off prior to the deadline date... so do you vote for paying ???% interest every time you put something on your card or accepting a minimum charge??... as long as it is clearly displayed prior to purchase then I'm happy with that.

[Simbo]

After 5 years of living here and travelling extensively around the country, I have formed an opinion about these people, which if I said it on this forum, the mods would delete it.

[Rinrada]

I heard that a bus ticket to Kho Samui the other day, would cost 450 for a ferang or 700 baht for a Thai.

That's not true if go by public transport. These private bus companies from K San might charge more though, some will not even let Thais on board.

Secondly - FERANG ARE RICHER THAN THAIS - its a fact.

No it's not a fact. Some are richer, some are poorer, that's a fact. I expect there are more than a few Thais in this country that are a lot richer than you.

Must ask wifes mates husband about any difference since he owns most of the private buses in LOS...and he only ever pays the Thai price ...anywhere they go....poor Thais indeed ...

[tartempion]

National Parks no problem, They are supported by Thai taxes, if you don't pay tax, cough up your fair due and pay the 400baht.

Does this means you agree to pay for driving on Thai roads?

Do you see the cops stopping all cars and asking farangs to pay 200 baht for dammaging their roads?

[tartempion]

I thought it was common knowledge for those that have been here awhile but I guess not. All you need to have in order to get the Thai price is a Thai drivers license. You just show the Thai license when you pay and they will give you the Thai price. No questions asked. You don't have to even say anything. This has been the case no matter where in Thailand I have been, be it at the Ripley's Museum in Pattaya to the Marine center in Phuket and everywhere else they have 2 prices posted. So for those of you complaining about the double price standard, don't try and fight the system, just pay your 70thb for a motorcycle license (110thb for a car) and you will get the Thai price everywhere.

Holy Cow!!!

Only 180 baht for both drivers licences!!!

Just this week at Nong Han district, Udon Thani province, I had to cough-up 1000 baht to get them.

And pay AEK Udon Thani immigration 1000 baht also to get a "notification of alien's adress" to use to obtain the drivers license. This is LOS (Land Of Scams)

But now I can save on national park entries, LOL

[markg]

Equality means equal.

Discriminating against someone because of their skin colour is a bad thing. I dont do it nor accept it.

Being discriminated against because of MY skin colour and the perception that i am rich is insulting.

The Thai average wage is steadily creeping up, whilst teachers wages have remained pretty static.

I know lots of Thai people who can run a car, though i cant afford one. Lots are richer than me.

I show my work permit, tax card and driving licence at national parks. But i dont like making a scene and having to fight for the right to save a few hundred baht.

At the end of the day, the muppet in the kiosk doesnt care if you come in or not, so flouncing off wont bother him at all.

I would say that in the UK, there is no double pricing.

I'm sure you're gonna find some dodgy ice cream vendors or taxi drivers who do it - that's human nature, but what we are talking about here, is officially sanctioned dual pricing by bona fide businesses and also the government. Sorry folks - that's discrimination and it should be illegal.

[QualityTouristNumberOne]

Well how about the double price smams AGAINST Thais???

I heard that a bus ticket to Kho Samui the other day, would cost 450 for a ferang or 700 baht for a Thai.

Secondly - FERANG ARE RICHER THAN THAIS - its a fact. Paying an extra quid for something when we can easily afford it is fine by me - stop being such tight fisted @*{:content:}amp;@($%&$($('s

:-)

What on Earth is a Ferang?

sums this post up

"I heard that a bus ticket to Kho Samui the other day, would cost 450 for a ferang or 700 baht for a Thai."

I'd just like to point out that this is the "Late night special,have all your money stolen while you're sleeping" bus that you're talking about(dont know if you knew that bit),

and the reason they quote higher prices for Thai's is to put them off traveling because they don't want to sneak around stealing from their countrymans bags while they sleep(as there will likely be less money,and no mp3 players/camera's etc),

they also know that when they suddenly stop the bus and demand extra money from their passengers for "imaginary tolls","elephant tax","monkey insurance" etc Thai people are likely to freak out/call the cops/kick them in their unscrupulous faces.

ALSO in the past Thai people who have been on these buses and seen these scumbags stealing from sleeping tourists have called the police,as the vast majority of Thai people are honest,its just a few thieving lowlife's that use the "They have more money so its ok to steal from them/overprice them/rip them" mentality.