Getting Rid Of Farang Management

[dgoz]

And, to add to TH's line of questioning, what made you assume that the English advertising wasn't checked by a farang manager? Have you noticed the quality of grammar on this forum? Most of us are native speakers.

Come to think of it, have you looked at the punctuation in your own post?

You obviously haven't seen the ad.

As I said, the English is laughable, not just your run of the mill poor English like mine or other TV members.

Next time I see the ad, if I can stop chuckling for a few minutes, I'll jot down the lines and post them here.

[dgoz]

By the way, as I am sure you know Sophon and UBC are Thai companies so what do they have to do with your thread?

TH

OK. One more time for the cheap seats. UBC and Sophon have everything to do with my thread.

My post is about what happens to a company when the Farang management is replaced by Thais.

UBC and Sophon are typical examples of this. If you've ever had to deal with them you'd know how pathetic the management is and how difficult it is to deal with them.

Are you Thai by any chance?

[Blake7]

I was watching Sophon cable TV tonight. They have an advert for their station in between movies. The advert's in Thai and English. The English is laughable. Very embarrassing for what I think is a professional company. Is this the typists fault or the Thai marketing managers fault?

If I was advertising in Thai I'd certainly run it by a native speaking Thai first to make sure the spelling and grammar were correct. Would this be genius management or just common sense.

Just another example.

Has anyone seen the new Aston Martin showroom at Paragon? The signs read Aston Matin.....

I was going to buy one as well. Don't think I'll bother now if they can't spell correctly.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Blake7

[Blake7]

What would improve Thailand is if we replaced all the Thais with farangs.

what even in Long Gun?

[Boon Mee]

One thing the majority of Farang managers are no good at is controlling the Thai staff. If they shout or lose their temper there will be serious problems, and unfortunatley they often end up shouting because Thai's don't like being told what to do by a farang.

Operative statement of the whole thread.

[bendix]

Operative statement of the whole thread, my arse.

Staff will react to good management, irrespective of race or creed. I'm afraid I'm with stevemarigno on this - if farang managers can't get their staff to understand objectives, take direction and implement management mandates, then it has more to do with the quality of the manager, not his or her racial heritage, and not some innate unwillingness by Thai office workers to be bossed by farang.

My Thai staff are intelligent, courteous, educated and motivated. If they don't understand a task (either how to do it, or why it's being done), they ask me. On numerous occasions, they've proactively suggested better ways to get things done.

[bendix]

Your posts always get on my nerves...

Really?

That's kinda curious, because I barely notice your posts . . .

Edited January 10, 2007 by bendix

[chuchok]

Operative statement of the whole thread, my arse.

Staff will react to good management, irrespective of race or creed. I'm afraid I'm with stevemarigno on this - if farang managers can't get their staff to understand objectives, take direction and implement management mandates, then it has more to do with the quality of the manager, not his or her racial heritage, and not some innate unwillingness by Thai office workers to be bossed by farang.

My Thai staff are intelligent, courteous, educated and motivated. If they don't understand a task (either how to do it, or why it's being done), they ask me. On numerous occasions, they've proactively suggested better ways to get things done.

Same goes for most places in the World.Funny that.

[OlRedEyes]

Your posts always get on my nerves...

Really?

That's kinda curious, because I barely notice your posts . . .

I must admit. it takes skill to be a real pain the arse.

[bkkandrew]

Your posts always get on my nerves...

Really?

That's kinda curious, because I barely notice your posts . . .

Selective reading is often a guide to those who are ignorant...

[steveromagnino]

Operative statement of the whole thread, my arse.

Staff will react to good management, irrespective of race or creed.

Same goes for most places in the World.Funny that.

Yep, I agree too. It amazes me that some people would think otherwise???!

[fanciman]

Interesting discussion,

What say you to this: pay people so well that they don't want to lose their job; fire them if they fail to comprehend / meet clearly articulated objectives.

(1 problem i can see with this is that a lot of time work needs to be one off, eg. installing a window. They will f*** it up, you have to pay anyway or be shot.)

I think change will happen when the spoilt, pampered Thai elites join international companies, try and hold down a job abroad (where they are required to measure up to standards) and then, after returning to Thailand, try and implement such standards/quality control with Thai workers, with the usual Thai-on-Thai carrots & sticks.

What are the Thai carrot and sticks, btw? Why don't farangs know/have access to/use them?

[kmart]

What are the Thai carrot and sticks, btw? Why don't farangs know/have access to/use them?

Some people do. But you need the patience of Job to use / implement them.

[helicoptor]

Operative statement of the whole thread, my arse.

Staff will react to good management, irrespective of race or creed. I'm afraid I'm with stevemarigno on this - if farang managers can't get their staff to understand objectives, take direction and implement management mandates, then it has more to do with the quality of the manager, not his or her racial heritage, and not some innate unwillingness by Thai office workers to be bossed by farang.

My Thai staff are intelligent, courteous, educated and motivated. If they don't understand a task (either how to do it, or why it's being done), they ask me. On numerous occasions, they've proactively suggested better ways to get things done.

They will not always do this for fear of looking stupid or 'losing face'

[steveromagnino]

If they don't understand a task (either how to do it, or why it's being done), they ask me. On numerous occasions, they've proactively suggested better ways to get things done.

They will not always do this for fear of looking stupid or 'losing face'

In my experience, knowing how to offer a way out without losing face or making people look stupid is a critical skill of good management and leadership anywhere.

For instance, in a meeting, expecting someone to speak up and say they don't understand may not occur (here or elsewhere). So make sure there is a way for people to contact you outside of this public situation, where they will not lose face. In a related matter, I recall once that something was stolen by someone of considerable power at one of my client's sites; someone who would definitely be able to get away with it if they wanted. In order to ensure I secured the item (a large quantity of liquor, as in hundreds of thousands of baht's worth) back, I turned my attention to the caterer, who I knew well, and asked them to empty their truck; a massive task; because clearly they had accidentally loaded the liquor on. I also made it clear no one should leave the premises, and that all vehicles be halted. I knew the caterer didn't do it; the perp knew I knew that (I think); everyone knew they were going to be searching until we found it.

I asked all security to join me in unloading the truck; knowing full well the perpatrator (another 3rd party) would know eventually they would get caught out; OR there was now an easy period for them to return the items with no one watching. They did, and lo and behold, I was able to say to everyone; so sorry, clearly we did not check the loading bay, there is the product over there. Thank you everyone, here is a bottle or two for your trouble.

Problem solved, no face lost. And that was with a bunch of grunts. hel_l of a lot easier dealing with educated people.

Lest anyone think this is a 'Thai thing' how do you think Kennedy dealt with the Russians in the Cuban missile crisis? How do you think almost any negotiation in Japan occurs? The best negotiation is one where you win, and the other guy/gal thinks they won. And management is pretty much a series of negotiations with people to get things done.

Fanciman; evidentally you are unaware of the 'Thai elites' who are doing a pretty reasonable job outside of Thailand and here as well in MNEs; there are plenty of non-Thai managers here who acheive outstanding results and plenty of Thai managers who acheive nothing. I don't think there is an immediate problem/advantage with being one or the other apart from a few language issues; the non Thai can play some negotiation cards that a Thai (particularly a younger Thai cannot) and the Thai manager often has some advantage in knowing the culture, who to grease up to and so on.

Good managers and leaders will shine anywhere in my experience; people who think they are good managers (but actually suck) are most likely to look good in the west where they aren't shown up due to the protection of systems and process aimed at removing one person's ability to screw everything up.

On the flip side, protection and sheer opportunity in a developing market mean you don't nessarily have to be running a particularly decent company here to make money; that's why some Thai managers can afford to suck so much, and still run pretty big organisations.

Edited January 11, 2007 by steveromagnino

[cdnvic]

If a manager is in a job for over 3 or 4 years and has been unable to train someone to replace him (REGARDLESS OF WHERE THAT IS, THAILAND OR NOT THAILAND) Then that manager is not worth having in the company.

Good companies follow this rule and won't promote anyone who can't train their own replacement.