After Las Vegas massacre, Democrats urge gun laws; Republicans silent

[digger70]

Just now, Blue Muton said:

 

Troll. Ignored from now on, more important things in life.

55555555555 The TRUTH HURT Doesn't it   555555555555555

[rice555]

34 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I have no  objection if a person wants to  have a revolver at home for protection or carries it with a properly authorized license but not open carry.  A person can be allowed a normal rifle or a shot gun for hunting.

 

This latest incident involved a man who had a total of 40 guns he purchased and at least 20 in his hotel room with a huge amount of ammunition.  A National database needs to be established putting limits on ownership of guns and ammunition. None of these limits violate the US Constitution. They are reasonable in a society that exists in the 21st century.  If one is a gun collector- then one can register as such and be exempted.

 

It is true that most of the mass shootings involve people who are mentally ill. More money must be put into this area of the healthcare system to identify these people and help them before they act out.  That is why it is so important to have a limit on gun ownership, a National database; and stop catering to organizations like the NRA who want to have everything from open carry to allowing people to own machine guns.  

 

It is also a fact that countries who have restricted gun ownership to their citizens such as the UK; Japan and Australia have less gun violence and murders than America. Guns do kill people and statics prove it. Lessen the number of people who own firearms and the difference is obvious.

It's NOT the NRA, the fed's say you can buy/own full auto's,

the state passes laws saying that you can OR can't. Not the NRA!

OR, NV and AZ yes, CA and WA no, at my last check, 20+ years ago,

there were 37 states where you could apply to get a full auto. IF you

passed a state and fed background checks and pay the Fed tax(was

U$200).

From the first records of the first registered MG's to late into the late

90's, no crime was ever committed with a legally registered MG from

the FBI's crime records.

rice555

[Foozool]

"Guns don't kill. People do the killing."

 

Explained by Republicans ???

[Throatwobbler]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

Stupid Statement ,,,,,So are cars /Knives/spearguns/Screw drivers /Broom handles/spades/Bamboo sticks.and Thousand more things one can Kill People.

 

When some one kills 59 people and wounds over 500 with  screwdrivers I will consider that you have a point. Until that point you are an inane troll.

 

[Throatwobbler]

1 hour ago, rice555 said:

It's NOT the NRA, the fed's say you can buy/own full auto's,

the state passes laws saying that you can OR can't. Not the NRA!

OR, NV and AZ yes, CA and WA no, at my last check, 20+ years ago,

there were 37 states where you could apply to get a full auto. IF you

passed a state and fed background checks and pay the Fed tax(was

U$200).

From the first records of the first registered MG's to late into the late

90's, no crime was ever committed with a legally registered MG from

the FBI's crime records.

rice555

Evidence of your claim please, and asking me to prove that it is wrong is not evidence. You are making the claim you supply the evidence.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Throatwobbler

[Artisi]

11 hours ago, darksidedog said:

And there was me thinking that the threat to America was being contained by the travel ban. The alleged shooter, Stephen Paddock doesn't sound particularly foreign. Freely available firearms are the number one very real danger. US politicians have had many chances to enact legislation on the subject, but have universally failed to have the balls to stand up to the gun lobby and do so. Expect similar incidents again.

Stand up, more than likely getting paid to not (stand up). 

[Artisi]

11 hours ago, JAG said:

Take away the guns it will stop people using them for killing.

 

It worked in Australia after the shooting in Tasmania.

It worked in the UK after Hungerford and Dunblane.

But but, the second amendment says........... 

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, Golgota said:

 

-America has six times as many firearm homicides as Canada, and nearly 16 times as many as Germany

-America has 4.4 percent of the world’s population, but almost half of the civilian-owned guns around the world

-There have been more than 1,500 mass shootings in US since Sandy Hook

 On average, there is more than one mass shooting for each day in America

-States with more guns have more gun deaths

-Programs that limit access to guns have decreased suicides

-In states with more guns, more police officers are also killed on duty

I think you mean homicide rate, not total homicides. Because if what you were saying is true, then the USA would be a safer place than Canada

[Foozool]

Republicans are not in congress to work for people, they are there to work for their supporters who spent millions of $$$ to make them congressmen. 

Who you think congressmen care for ? 

Easy gun access to criminals, then sell millions of guns for protection against criminals.

Great business idea.

[JAG]

17 minutes ago, Artisi said:

But but, the second amendment says........... 

Yes. I know it is not really my place to comment on the US Constitution, but I am pretty sure that the purpose of the second amendment was to allow for the maintenance of a well regulated militia to defend the isolated and perhaps vulnerable settlements which then made up the new republic, rather than to facilitate a nutter with a grudge (they've always got a grudge) machine gun a concert from the upper stories of a hotel.

Maybe it is time to revisit how it is interpreted?

[jaywalker]

Err. the MACHINE GUN used was already illegal.

 

Fat lot of good that did.

 

It was psycho that pulled the trigger, plain and simple.

[jaywalker]

11 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Not true.  Australia is an excellent example.  Tougher gun laws there have worked out fantastic.  There's your proof it would work.

 

The right to bear arms was written into the Bill of Rights in 1791.  I dare say times have changed since then.  Dramatically.

The MACHINE GUN he used WAS ILLEGAL!

 

Yet I get treated like a criminal for having a LEGAL .38 in my truck, in a holster, inside the glove box in the USA. It's not even a "concealed weapon". No different than having a fishing pole in the back of my truck!

 

That cop just HAD to run the serial number on it though, to see if it was stolen!

 

I got it by accident...loaned a friend $950 USD, so he could pay for (of all things) his police academy tuition. He insisted that I take that pistol as collateral. I still have it 25+ years later.

 

I lost all trust in anybody with a badge that day.

 

Oh yeah, I have never shot anybody in my 50 years on this planet.

 

"Yea though I walk through the Valley of The Shadow of Death, I shall Fear No Evil, For I am the Meanest SOB in The Valley".

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Yes. I know it is not really my place to comment on the US Constitution, but I am pretty sure that the purpose of the second amendment was to allow for the maintenance of a well regulated militia to defend the isolated and perhaps vulnerable settlements which then made up the new republic, rather than to facilitate a nutter with a grudge (they've always got a grudge) machine gun a concert from the upper stories of a hotel.

Maybe it is time to revisit how it is interpreted?

Why not amend it?

 

Everyone allowed a musket would be about right

 

These people are literally insane

[jaywalker]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Why not amend it?

 

Everyone allowed a musket would be about right

 

These people are literally insane

The MACHINE GUN he used was NOT ALLOWED/ILLEGAL!

 

More "LAWS" will do nothing to prevent this!

 

Blame the Liberal Media if anything. They divide the USA and stir up hate...It's all they do, then some psycho decides to go on a rampage due to too much Rachel Maddow.

[samsensam]

 

if it had been an islamist terrorist you can imagine what would be happening now, but as it's just an white american guy with a gun or two or three... killing over 50 and wounding over 500 what's going to be done? nothing. what's going to change? nothing.

 

these people are insane, that's about right.

 

this puts all the mad, insane, illogical things to see in thailand right in the shade.

 

america first for insanity, too right, and very very sad.

[boomerangutang]

7 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Oh yeah, I have never shot anybody in my 50 years on this planet.

 

"Yea though I walk through the Valley of The Shadow of Death, I shall Fear No Evil, For I am the Meanest SOB in The Valley".

 

It's good you've never shot anyone.  There's still time.  All those years, you could have shot someone.  

 

A 4 year old boy can pull a trigger and shoot his dad (yes, happened in a p.u. truck) or a middle aged outspoken 2nd Amender woman in Texas shot her 19 yr old daughter, a week before the girl was scheduled to get married.  Yes, those two, and tens of thousands of other gun crimes have happened in recent years in the US.

 

Is that 4 yr old kid a mean SOB?   Or is the woman who shot her daughter in cold blood a mean SOB?  According to your definition, yes.  According to you, anyone who can fire a gun is a mean SOB.   You're sick, but perhaps no sicker than tens of millions of other Americans who think a gun makes a man a tough SOB. 

 

Personally, I think a gun makes a man a sappy weakling who can't defend himself with his own might or fighting skills.  He needs a mechanical tool with a barrel to make him feel like he's got a 9" steel dick.    

[Berkshire]

17 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

Republicans + NRA are active partners in terrorizing Americans.  They contribute to deaths and maiming of more Americans than all Muslim extremists combined.

 

Someday, many years from now, American history will clearly cite that the GOP and NRA colluded in the murder of millions of Americans.  And those folks in the future will be absolutely baffled as to how American society could be so inhumane.  They'll ask how we let it happen.  I'm here now and I wouldn't know how to answer that question. 

[jaywalker]

1 minute ago, boomerangutang said:

 

It's good you've never shot anyone.  There's still time.  All those years, you could have shot someone.  

 

A 4 year old boy can pull a trigger and shoot his dad (yes, happened in a p.u. truck) or a middle aged outspoken 2nd Amender woman in Texas shot her 19 yr old daughter, a week before the girl was scheduled to get married.  Yes, those two, and tens of thousands of other gun crimes have happened in recent years in the US.

 

Is that 4 yr old kid a mean SOB?   Or is the woman who shot her daughter in cold blood a mean SOB?  According to your definition, yes.  According to you, anyone who can fire a gun is a mean SOB.   You're sick, but perhaps no sicker than tens of millions of other Americans who think a gun makes a man a tough SOB. 

 

Personally, I think a gun makes a man a sappy weakling who can't defend himself with his own might or fighting skills.  He needs a mechanical tool with a barrel to make him feel like he's got a 9" steel dick.    

 

So the woman and the toddler are criminals?

 

Sound to me more like some lady (or a kid that gets behind the wheel of a car.

BTW, how did did you guess the length of my dick? You are pretty close.

 

The longer the muzzle, the higher the velocity of the bullet.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

The MACHINE GUN he used was NOT ALLOWED/ILLEGAL!

 

More "LAWS" will do nothing to prevent this!

 

Blame the Liberal Media if anything. They divide the USA and stir up hate...It's all they do, then some psycho decides to go on a rampage due to too much Rachel Maddow.

 

So you think it's OK for American civilians to have machine guns? You must be nuts

 

Sorry I don't know the difference between a full automatic and a semEYE as I'm not American.

 

Are there no grownups who can take care?

[jaywalker]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

 

So you think it's OK for American civilians to have machine guns? You must be nuts

 

Sorry I don't know the difference between a full automatic and a semEYE as I'm not American.

 

Are there no grownups who can take care?

I said they were ILLEGAL! That means AGAINST THE LAW.

 

Never said it was OK for civilians. Just saying more laws can hardly fix something that is against the law already.

[Berkshire]

16 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

if it had been an islamist terrorist you can imagine what would be happening now, but as it's just an white american guy with a gun or two or three... killing over 50 and wounding over 500 what's going to be done? nothing. what's going to change? nothing.

 

You're absolutely right, the narrative would be completely different if the guy was Arabic.  There would be intense hatred for all Muslims...or anyone looking remotely like a Muslim.  There would be hate crimes against all Muslims and Americans would condone it because "they deserve it."  Trump would be on Twitter night and day to call for a "complete shutdown of Muslims entering the country" and many Americans would support it.  Sadly, the collective reaction in America would also be different if the killer had been black or Hispanic.  But an all-American white guy?  The blame will be on the one guy and the one guy only, not the entire race.  Shame that America is still incredibly racist after all these years.  

Edited October 3, 2017 by Berkshire

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, rice555 said:

It's NOT the NRA, the fed's say you can buy/own full auto's,

the state passes laws saying that you can OR can't. Not the NRA!

OR, NV and AZ yes, CA and WA no, at my last check, 20+ years ago,

there were 37 states where you could apply to get a full auto. IF you

passed a state and fed background checks and pay the Fed tax(was

U$200).

From the first records of the first registered MG's to late into the late

90's, no crime was ever committed with a legally registered MG from

the FBI's crime records.

rice555

 

The NRA are enablers.  They're like Iran smuggling weapons to Hezbollah, Hezbollah being gun owners.   

If I pay some punks to burglarize your house, are you going to say I had nothing to do with it, because I didn't do the actual burglary?

 

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Yes. I know it is not really my place to comment on the US Constitution, but I am pretty sure that the purpose of the second amendment was to allow for the maintenance of a well regulated militia to defend the isolated and perhaps vulnerable settlements which then made up the new republic, rather than to facilitate a nutter with a grudge (they've always got a grudge) machine gun a concert from the upper stories of a hotel. Maybe it is time to revisit how it is interpreted?

You're right.  Even ultra-right Chief of the Supreme Court during Nixon's time stressed that the 2nd Amendment applied to 'well-regulated militias' for States, NOT TO ANYONE OWNING ANY TYPE OF WEAPON.   

[jaywalker]

13 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

It's good you've never shot anyone.  There's still time.  All those years, you could have shot someone.  

 

A 4 year old boy can pull a trigger and shoot his dad (yes, happened in a p.u. truck) or a middle aged outspoken 2nd Amender woman in Texas shot her 19 yr old daughter, a week before the girl was scheduled to get married.  Yes, those two, and tens of thousands of other gun crimes have happened in recent years in the US.

 

Is that 4 yr old kid a mean SOB?   Or is the woman who shot her daughter in cold blood a mean SOB?  According to your definition, yes.  According to you, anyone who can fire a gun is a mean SOB.   You're sick, but perhaps no sicker than tens of millions of other Americans who think a gun makes a man a tough SOB. 

 

Personally, I think a gun makes a man a sappy weakling who can't defend himself with his own might or fighting skills.  He needs a mechanical tool with a barrel to make him feel like he's got a 9" steel dick.    

 

 

[boomerangutang]

3 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

I said they were ILLEGAL! That means AGAINST THE LAW.

Never said it was OK for civilians. Just saying more laws can hardly fix something that is against the law already.

The people who sell conversion kits should be busted to the full extent of the law.  Same as authorities would bust a man who sells bomb making supplies to a bomb-maker.

[Grouse]

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/aug/27/nicholas-kristof/more-americans-killed-guns-1968-all-wars-says-colu/

 

Whatever the American idea is about guns it doesn't work. It's immature bull shit. 2nd amendment indeed! What tosh ?

[jaywalker]

2 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

The people who sell conversion kits should be busted to the full extent of the law.  Same as authorities would bust a man who sells bomb making supplies to a bomb-maker.

 

It's about a $10,000 USD process, and 6 to 8 months to get a fully automatic machine gun license in the USA, and you had better be squeaky clean to get approved.

 

More laws will do nothing to stop crazy people from being crazy people.

 

 

[jaywalker]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/aug/27/nicholas-kristof/more-americans-killed-guns-1968-all-wars-says-colu/

 

Whatever the American idea is about guns it doesn't work. It's immature bull shit. 2nd amendment indeed! What tosh ?

Which part of the killer using an ILLEGAL weapon do you not get?

[jaywalker]

Just listening to the video & hearing the shots again.

 

Not an AK-47 nor an AR-15, for sure. Not even an M-16. Not loud enough to be an M-60.

 

I'd guess it was a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon), which is about as easy to buy legally, as buying the nation of Fiji.

 

The SAW shoots the same round as an AR-15 or M-16, but has a belt fed drum of ammo. They were just getting introduced as I got out of the Army, so I never handled one.

 

From the number of people killed and injured....I am amazed the psycho was able to do that with just one highly illegal rifle.

[Berkshire]

11 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Which part of the killer using an ILLEGAL weapon do you not get?

It's really not about legality.  It's about EASY ACCESS. 

[jaywalker]

Psychos seem to know more about easy access than I ever will.

 

------------

1. You need to be eligible to possess firearms in general. 
2. You must live in a state where NFA items are permitted and machine guns, specifically, are legal to possess.
3. The machine gun you wish to acquire must have been manufactured on or before May 19, 1986.  That is the cutoff date for entries to be made in the NFRTR (National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record), the registry of all NFA items in the United States including machine guns.
4. You must locate a Class III dealer (FFL01+SOT) that sells or can transfer in the machine gun you wish to acquire in your state of residence.
5. You must purchase the machine gun upfront prior to transfer and have it shipped to your Class III dealer.  For a full-auto M16, this will be anywhere from $12,000 and up.  Typical prices for an M16 hover around $14,000 to $16,000.
6. Once purchased and with your dealer, the dealer will fill out the Form 4 application on your behalf to submission to the BATFE and collect your $200 NFA transfer stamp tax.
7. The application will be submitted.  Now you wait 8+ months for the full FBI background check and BATFE processing to complete. 
8. Once the Form 4 is processed, it will be returned to the dealer along with the tax stamp which is part of your paperwork.  You can then take possession of your military grade fully automatic firearm and take it home.
9. The tax stamp must be kept with the firearm it belongs to at all times!  The tax stamp is your only affirmative defense to prove you are not in possession of an illegal machine gun.  The tax stamp is proof you paid the transfer tax and legally transferred the machine gun.  Ranges that allow Class III will want to see the stamp.  If you get pulled over and the gun is discovered/inspected, law enforcement will definitely want to see it too.  You may be required to present the firearm for inspection on demand by the BATFE.
10. You may not transport the fully automatic firearm across state lines for any purpose without prior consent of the Federal government.  You must request this in advance and provide details on where the firearm is going, when you are leaving and when it will return to its registered location of residence.
11. You cannot leave the presence of your fully automatic firearm.  If someone else is shooting it, you must be with it, legally speaking.  The one exception to this is if you have formed a legal trust for the purpose of possessing the firearm, in which case all beneficiaries of the trust (usually family or employees) may have access to the firearm.

So yes, provided you meet and abide by all of conditions above, a normal citizen can purchase and possess a fully automatic military grade assault rifle.

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