UK visit visa - warnings

[darren1971]

My Thai gf is now with me in the UK on a visit visa, as previously just getting the visa is not the only hurdle to overcome. There are other issues to consider that might undermine your plans. Firstly your Thai gf will be expected to fill out an immigration arrival card on the plane in English (although there are plans to do away with these they are still in place right now). She will be quizzed on what is written on the arrival card and the person quizzing her/him will not have read your visa application. This is fine but you need to remember your partner will have just got off a 12 hour flight, may not have perfect English and possibly be nervous, I prepared my Thai gf for this but she still needed to fill out the card and the man questioning her at Heathrow immigration made her very uncomfortable and unwelcome. She was detained for nearly 2 hours and forced to answer more questions on issues that were already covered in the visa application. If you the sponsor happen to be self employed and your home address that you and your gf will be staying in happens to be a business then it will instantly be presumed she is here to work illegally. Before my gf was released through immigration I had to call Border force where I was questioned by a woman called Jan whose assumption was that as I had employment it was unlikely that me and my gf's intention was to holiday together - "you have to work, so what will your gf be doing when you're working" - bizarre, sponsors are expected to show means to support the visa applicant but are not expected to work. The last issue was the return flight booking. My gf plans to stay for 1 month and I am planning to return to Thailand with her at the end of the visit, as we are unsure of the exact dates (my parents are coming from Spain to meet her but they do not know dates yet and we did not know how quickly the visa would be granted) I booked a flexible ticket to return WITHIN the visa term - allowing a bit of flexibility in the travel plans again will be a red flag to immigration, in their minds this can mean only one thing, your gf will not return to Thailand. I explained the reason for the slight bit of flexibility to Jan but the only reply she kept giving me was "So she will not be returning to Thailand?".

When my gf finally made it through immigration she was in tears and said "I want to go home to Thailand now", it took a few hours to calm her down and personally I can understand how she was feeling.

So in summary, just getting the visa is not the end of the ordeal. What annoys me the most is that all of these issues are covered in the original visa application process. Upon arriving in the UK if the person has a valid visa and the correct travel documents they should only be detained for further questioning if something is glaringly wrong.

[Jip99]

Unpleasant that, was it her first visit?

[darren1971]

Just now, Jip99 said:

Unpleasant that, was it her first visit?

 

Yes first visit, first time on a long haul flight alone and first time out of Thailand. I had a Thai gf in 2011 visit me and she was also detained for over an hour and questioned. If your home address is a pub/restaurant it seems this is almost guaranteed to happen. 

[samsensam]

 

in principle i agree that having a visa should ease the process, and often does, unfortunately too many people lie and make false claims during the visa application process - see previous posts here were thai partners have not told the truth during the visa application process despite their partner advising them to. then multiply this by the total number of visa applications and you can understand why airport immigration might want to investigate more.

 

so you could explain to your gf that to some extent the problems she encountered were due to the actions of her countrymen and women. should take the heat off you!

 

i'd add that many of my thai friends often visit the uk, europe and australia and none have reported any issues at immigration at all. dont know if your gf's background is similar but they are all they are educated professionals with good jobs able to speak english.

 

[darren1971]

2 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

in principle i agree that having a visa should ease the process, and often does, unfortunately too many people lie and make false claims during the visa application process - see previous posts here were thai partners have not told the truth during the visa application process despite their partner advising them to. then multiply this by the total number of visa applications and you can understand why airport immigration might want to investigate more.

 

so you could explain to your gf that to some extent the problems she encountered were due to the actions of her countrymen and women. should take the heat off you!

 

 

 

Partly agree, but there is nothing in the visa rules that suggest the applicant can not reside at a business address or change the duration of their visit as long as it is with the allowed period.

[oldgent]

I think i read somewhere where its up to the immigration officer at the airport for to 

allow or not allow entry irespective of a valid visa or not . in this case sounds like a

jobs worth officer, good post 

[theoldgit]

A visa is actually entry clearance, which in essence means that the visa holder has satisfied the Entry Clearance Officer that their proposed visit is genuine, affordable and that on the balance of probabilities they will leave the UK at the conclusion of their visit.

That said a visa only allows the visa holder to travel to a UK Border where they must satisfy a Border Force Officer that again of the above. If the Border Force Officer thinks that the visa has been fraudulently obtained or there has been a material change of circumstances they have the right, indeed they should, refer the passenger to their manager with a view to deny landing, this does happen occasionally to both visa holders and non visa nationals.

Unfortunatly your girlfriend seems to have come an officer on a mission who was seeking to refuse her admittance to the UK, it can happen unfortunately and some officers do tend to show some aggression when interviewing passengers, as you say after a long flight. It happened to us once, thankfully I was on scene and able to challenge the officer.

Hopefully your girlfriend will be able to put this experience behind her and enjoy the rest of her stay.

[oldgent]

7 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

A visa is actually entry clearance, which in essence means that the visa holder has satisfied the Entry Clearance Officer that their proposed visit is genuine, affordable and that on the balance of probabilities they will leave the UK at the conclusion of their visit.

That said a visa only allows the visa holder to travel to a UK Border where they must satisfy a Border Force Officer that again of the above. If the Border Force Officer thinks that the visa has been fraudulently obtained or there has been a material change of circumstances they have the right, indeed they should, refer the passenger to their manager with a view to deny landing, this does happen occasionally to both visa holders and non visa nationals.

Unfortunatly your girlfriend seems to have come an officer on a mission who was seeking to refuse her admittance to the UK, it can happen unfortunately and some officers do tend to show some aggression when interviewing passengers, as you say after a long flight. It happened to us once, thankfully I was on scene and able to challenge the officer.

Hopefully your girlfriend will be able to put this experience behind her and enjoy the rest of her stay.

does this not make a mockery of the visa system , if all papers were in order and the decision was made

to allow the holder to travel then why do they have to interrogated again.

[oldgent]

11 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

A visa is actually entry clearance, which in essence means that the visa holder has satisfied the Entry Clearance Officer that their proposed visit is genuine, affordable and that on the balance of probabilities they will leave the UK at the conclusion of their visit.

That said a visa only allows the visa holder to travel to a UK Border where they must satisfy a Border Force Officer that again of the above. If the Border Force Officer thinks that the visa has been fraudulently obtained or there has been a material change of circumstances they have the right, indeed they should, refer the passenger to their manager with a view to deny landing, this does happen occasionally to both visa holders and non visa nationals.

Unfortunatly your girlfriend seems to have come an officer on a mission who was seeking to refuse her admittance to the UK, it can happen unfortunately and some officers do tend to show some aggression when interviewing passengers, as you say after a long flight. It happened to us once, thankfully I was on scene and able to challenge the officer.

Hopefully your girlfriend will be able to put this experience behind her and enjoy the rest of her stay.

does this not make a mockery of the visa system , if all papers were in order and the decision was made

to allow the holder to travel then why do they have to interrogated again.

[Jip99]

52 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

 

Yes first visit, first time on a long haul flight alone and first time out of Thailand. I had a Thai gf in 2011 visit me and she was also detained for over an hour and questioned. If your home address is a pub/restaurant it seems this is almost guaranteed to happen. 

 

 

Don’t misunderstand me Darren because I sympathize with your GF. She, like many of our partners - mine included, wouldn’t have a clue what is going on. However,  I decided that I would ensure I accompanied her on her visit visit - straight 5hrough, obviously.

 

Your comment is very valid about Border Control; same as Thailand a visa does give any guarantee of entry..

 

I have helped friends with UK visas and my missus spends a lot of time telling the GF’s what to expect. She also photocopy’s a landing card and tells them to write their details in so it is easy to transpose on to the real card.

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, oldgent said:

does this not make a mockery of the visa system , if all papers were in order and the decision was made

to allow the holder to travel then why do they have to interrogated again.

 

Not at all. Aren’t we Brits the first to complain about how lax the UK is in letting people in.

 

Visas are not difficult to obtain - look at some of the cases involving Indians.

 

We also experience it with entry into Thailand, immigration offers focus on anyone who is suspected of working illegally.

[rasg]

Sorry your girlfriend had to go through that. My wife was questioned for 45 minutes the first time she came here and had me very worried too waiting i the other side of the screen. It's a lot easier next time.

 

Immigration do have access to all of the original information supplied in the original visa application and they do try and trip people up. Especially on the working bit. It definitely doesn’t help that you own a bar/restauarant and she had an open ticket for six months. I would never have advised that you did that. On both my wife's visit visas I bought tickets for the duration of the trip that was stated on the visa. It was worth it to pay the bit extra to change the flights.

 

My wife asked somebody to help her on the landing card bit.

 

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

have helped friends with UK visas and my missus spends a lot of time telling the GF’s what to expect. She also photocopy’s a landing card and tells them to write their details in so it is easy to transpose on to the real card.

That is a really good tip as long as you have access to a landing card.

 

 

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, rasg said:

Sorry your girlfriend had to go through that. My wife was questioned for 45 minutes the first time she came here and had me very worried too waiting i the other side of the screen. It's a lot easier next time.

 

Immigration do have access to all of the original information supplied in the original visa application and they do try and trip people up. Especially on the working bit. It definitely doesn’t help that you own a bar/restauarant and she had an open ticket for six months. I would never have advised that you did that. On both my wife's visit visas I bought tickets for the duration of the trip that was stated on the visa. It was worth it to pay the bit extra to change the flights.

 

My wife asked somebody to help her on the landing card bit.

 

That is a really good tip as long as you have access to a landing card.

 

 

 

 

True - and these things only come with experience.

 

I routinely get additional copies and pre-prepare TM6’s, landing cards etc.

[theoldgit]

30 minutes ago, oldgent said:

does this not make a mockery of the visa system , if all papers were in order and the decision was made

to allow the holder to travel then why do they have to interrogated again.

 

Not really, as I said earlier, if the Border Force Officer suspects the visa was obtained fraudulently or there's been a material change in circumstances from when the application was submitted, they can recommend that landing is refused.

There are of course differing ways of interviewing passengers, in my experience most Immigration Officers and Border Force Officers are pretty reasonable people who undertake a challenging role, there are of course one or two who don't meet the standards you might expect.

[darren1971]

23 minutes ago, rasg said:

Sorry your girlfriend had to go through that. My wife was questioned for 45 minutes the first time she came here and had me very worried too waiting i the other side of the screen. It's a lot easier next time.

 

Immigration do have access to all of the original information supplied in the original visa application and they do try and trip people up. Especially on the working bit. It definitely doesn’t help that you own a bar/restauarant and she had an open ticket for six months. I would never have advised that you did that. On both my wife's visit visas I bought tickets for the duration of the trip that was stated on the visa. It was worth it to pay the bit extra to change the flights.

 

My wife asked somebody to help her on the landing card bit.

 

That is a really good tip as long as you have access to a landing card.

 

 

 

I did prepare the landing card for her and when questioned my gf was on the mark as to what we were doing and all in line with the visa application, just feel they overdid it with questioning/detaining her for 2 hours, her flight landing at 18:20 and we left Heathrow at 21:00.

[darren1971]

anyway, onwards and upwards. Next stop settlement visa 

[Jip99]

13 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

 

I did prepare the landing card for her and when questioned my gf was on the mark as to what we were doing and all in line with the visa application, just feel they overdid it with questioning/detaining her for 2 hours, her flight landing at 18:20 and we left Heathrow at 21:00.

 

 

I  bet you were ready for a beer when you got home!  ?

[darren1971]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 

I bet bet you were ready for a beer when you got home!  ?

 

Had to have one on the train ... 

[oldgent]

I can appreciate the difficulties that the officers have to deal with especially if

there is a language barrier but i assume that the possibility of interpreters

are available. ( the officer does not have the full information ) in my opinion there is a lot of grey areas

which need addressed.

[oldgent]

13 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

anyway, onwards and upwards. Next stop settlement visa 

you sure ? you not going to marry her

[darren1971]

2 minutes ago, oldgent said:

I can appreciate the difficulties that the officers have to deal with especially if

there is a language barrier but i assume that the possibility of interpreters

are available. ( the officer does not have the full information ) in my opinion there is a lot of grey areas

which need addressed.

 

I think it is the border agencies job to deal with these queries at the application stage, once granted the entry officer should only be checking that the visa is valid and the travel documents are in order, at no point in the application process does it state that travel dates need to be as stated, only that the applicant has to leave the country when the visa expires. There is also nothing to say that the sponsors residence should not be a business, again if it is an issue it should be dealt with at the application stage. 

[theoldgit]

3 minutes ago, oldgent said:

I can appreciate the difficulties that the officers have to deal with especially if

there is a language barrier but i assume that the possibility of interpreters

are available. ( the officer does not have the full information ) in my opinion there is a lot of grey areas

which need addressed.

The information contained in the application is accessible electronically, it's worth noting that passengers are advised to take copies of supporting documentation with them.

Interpreters are available, though sometimes at the end of a phone line.

[darren1971]

3 minutes ago, oldgent said:

you sure ? you not going to marry her

 

hahah... just want to get her here to wash dishes in my pub because low paid labour is in such short supply 

 

(actually pay my staff rather well before I get flamed)

[darren1971]

Just now, theoldgit said:

The information contained in the application is accessible electronically, it's worth noting that passengers are advised to take copies of supporting documentation with them.

Interpreters are available, though sometimes at the end of a phone line.

 

guess what.... they did not return any documents with the visa, just her passport...Obvious holes in the system. That's how my gf knew it was a yes because she could feel the envelope was empty when returned.

[theoldgit]

13 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

guess what.... they did not return any documents with the visa, just her passport...Obvious holes in the system. 

They should have returned the original documents, providing your girlfriend submitted copies with her application.

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

They should have returned the original documents, providing your girlfriend submitted copies with her application.

 

 

Presumably, VfS just send back what they receive from the embassy ?

[al007]

Yes difficult for your lady, but then we all know the problems of International travel, and maybe the two hours could have been a lot worse

 

In the UK as in the majority of countries world wide,  a visa is really only good for getting on the plane, discretion is finally left with immigration officer, hopefully in the UK that official has to justify reasons if he refuses entry

 

And lets be honest if you own a pub it is very difficult to convince someone that she will never serve someone a drink

 

In Thailand a visitor is not allowed to work so why is it different in the UK

[theoldgit]

6 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

Presumably, VfS just send back what they receive from the embassy ?

 

Yes, the UKVI staff put the passport and any documents to be returned in a sealed pack and sent to VFS who in turn pass it on to the applicant.

[darren1971]

15 minutes ago, al007 said:

Yes difficult for your lady, but then we all know the problems of International travel, and maybe the two hours could have been a lot worse

 

In the UK as in the majority of countries world wide,  a visa is really only good for getting on the plane, discretion is finally left with immigration officer, hopefully in the UK that official has to justify reasons if he refuses entry

 

And lets be honest if you own a pub it is very difficult to convince someone that she will never serve someone a drink

 

In Thailand a visitor is not allowed to work so why is it different in the UK

 

Sorry that is wrong, it should be the officer that grants the visa that needs convincing she will not work, they have the time to consider ALL the evidence in front of them. There are no shortages of willing workers in the UK, to go through the tourist visa process and all its associated costs to fill a bar position makes no sense to me. How about detaining every visitor thats residing in London because theres a higher proportion of immigrants working manual low paid work there. What we need to do in this world is move away from this notion that wealthy equals innocent and poor equals guilty.

 

Immigration has made this country wealthy and saved us during the war, they should be celebrated in my eyes.

[al007]

1 minute ago, darren1971 said:

In the UK as in the majority of countries world wide,  a visa is really only good for getting on the plane, discretion is finally left with immigration officer, hopefully in the UK that official has to justify reasons if he refuses entry

 

 

3 minutes ago, darren1971 said:

Sorry that is wrong, it should be the officer that grants the visa that needs convincing she will not work, they have the time to consider ALL the evidence in front of them. There are no shortages of willing workers in the UK, to go through the tourist visa process and all its associated costs to fill a bar position makes no sense to me. How about detaining every visitor thats residing in London because theres a higher proportion of immigrants working manual low paid work there. What we need to do in this world is move away from this notion that wealthy equals innocent and poor equals guilty.

 

 

Idealistically Darren you are  very correct, and it is understandable you were upset unfortunately that is not what the law says