ilostmypassword Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 hour ago, mrwebb8825 said: Top 10 Worst Counties for Human Rights: 10 - Nigeria 9 - Yeman 8 - Myanmar 7- Iraq 6 - Afganistan 5 - Somalia 4 - Pakistan 3 - The Democratic Republic of Congo 2 - Sudan 1 - Syria Just in case you were interested in actual facts as opposed to just jumping on the Trump-Haters bandwagon 'cause you like the tune. Are you a propagandist for North Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andaman Al Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said: Top 10 Worst Counties for Human Rights: 10 - Nigeria 9 - Yeman 8 - Myanmar 7- Iraq 6 - Afganistan 5 - Somalia 4 - Pakistan 3 - The Democratic Republic of Congo 2 - Sudan 1 - Syria Just in case you were interested in actual facts as opposed to just jumping on the Trump-Haters bandwagon 'cause you like the tune. So these are the depths of depravity a Trump supporter will now stoop to. To actually consider an American offering support for Saudi Arabia, the country that provided 16 of the 19 hijackers, the country that is amongst the top of the international Human Rights watch list, is just beyond belief. Maybe thats why Trump likes Saudi so much with his MAGA rhetoric. Will America be great again when women can't work again or can't drive. When a leader can have his opponents arrested and executed at his whim. My how Trump must love Saudi and he has people like YOU enabling him. Your list doesn't seem very good. I guess we should all be relieved that North Korea is actually not so bad when it comes to Human rights issues, we must have been fed lies. Was your list compiled by the Ambassadors of Saudi and North Korea during the annual meeting of the International bad ass boys club? I guess the indiscriminate murder of tens of thousands of civilians in Yemen is neither here nor there then. Regardless of the position on a list I would like to think that you would admit that Saudi is not only a stone age culture that gives NOBODY any human rights, it is also the home of wahhabism which is what all the ISIS nut jobs were schooled in. I make no issue of the fact, yes i DO hate Trump, and I don't go around veiling or concealing it. He is destroying a country I admired, he has made fools of the brothers in arms I fought alongside and he is an international embarrassment and a crook on a scale that will leave HRC looking like Mother Theresa by the time Mueller is finished. I am not a Dem, I am right wing and Trump falls into a class of his own concerning planetary low life - and you support him. You are actually cutting some slack to Saudi Arabia - think about that for a moment. Think how far down the hole you and others have fallen. There are a lot of moral compasses fallen down that hole and I don't see how they can be recovered. Look at the comments Trump made to Kushner about "Birtherism", he said he doesn't believe it but Republicans are stupid and they buy it. Do you think his attitude has changed? He thinks you are all stupid and he is playing you like a piano. If the consequences were not so potentially dire, this would be the funniest con in the history of mankind - funniest bigglyist ever - never been anything like it - sad! Edited November 8, 2017 by Andaman Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactus Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 (edited) trump should rule Saudi Arabia then USA imo! a great country that can fit his bigot mindset. and i m sure ass kisser saudis sure accept this great honor right away if proposed by Trump:) Edited November 8, 2017 by Galactus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slip Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said: Top 10 Worst Counties for Human Rights: 10 - Nigeria 9 - Yeman 8 - Myanmar 7- Iraq 6 - Afganistan 5 - Somalia 4 - Pakistan 3 - The Democratic Republic of Congo 2 - Sudan 1 - Syria Just in case you were interested in actual facts as opposed to just jumping on the Trump-Haters bandwagon 'cause you like the tune. Did you not notice that list comes from 2013? Here's a more up to date one (from 2016, amnesty) which actually came up above the one you quoted in my google search. Still not the worst country though- only no. 9. It's kind of interesting how different they are. I wonder if that is because of the time difference or that they are made by 2 different organisations. 10 - Syria 9 - Saudi Arabia 8 - Russia 7- Pakistan 6 - Kenya 5 - Israel 4 - Hungary 3 - Gambia 2 - Egypt 1 - China http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/amnesty-international-reveals-the-10-worst-attacks-on-human-rights-across-the-world-last-year-a6892911.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 2 hours ago, Morch said: Al-Waleed is among those who were arrested. There were earlier reports (if not necessarily confirmed) as to which banks were selected by Saudi Arabia, and Citi apparently didn't make the cut. Again, not exactly sure what you're on about. A causal connection seems rather dubious. You can't read between the lines, so I'm not sure why you are even commenting here. Jared probably sought private financing, because Trump specifically said he wanted Aramco listed on the NYSE and not the London exchange. The problem is that the banks are balking at the NYSE listing, because of sanctions issues. Trump's SOP is using laundered money to finance these kinds of operations. Maybe if you removed your Trump-tinted goggles, you could connect the dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said: You can't read between the lines, so I'm not sure why you are even commenting here. Jared probably sought private financing, because Trump specifically said he wanted Aramco listed on the NYSE and not the London exchange. The problem is that the banks are balking at the NYSE listing, because of sanctions issues. Trump's SOP is using laundered money to finance these kinds of operations. Maybe if you removed your Trump-tinted goggles, you could connect the dots. I'm not into making up stuff, if that's what you meant. What Kushner "probably" sought, you have no idea of, let along announcing it to be "private financing". That there is any "laundered money" involved is yet another thing aired without much support. Not a Trump supporter by a long-shot. Quite the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonbridgebrit Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 Go on, Mr Trump, I give you credit and respect for saying it as it is. Washington will sell a huge amount of weapons to Saudi Arabia, and back Saudi Arabia. To Washington, it doesn't matter that Saudi Arabia practically bans Evangelical Christian preachers turning up there. For Washington, it doesn't matter that Saudi Arabia practices a form of Islam that is more strict than Iran's. The important thing is, is that Saudi Arabia won't attack America or Europe. And that's why Washington is willing to sell arms to Saudi Arabia and make a good profit. If Hillary was in charge, what would happen ? Hillary will back Saudi Arabia just as much. It's just that, Hillary will keep quite about it. Hillary is not going to declare it blatantly to the media. So yes, Mr Trump, I give you credit and respect for your honesty and saying it as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Morch said: I'm not into making up stuff, if that's what you meant. What Kushner "probably" sought, you have no idea of, let along announcing it to be "private financing". That there is any "laundered money" involved is yet another thing aired without much support. Not a Trump supporter by a long-shot. Quite the contrary. The media is already connecting the dots. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-attorney-represented-saudi-billionaire-prince-arrested-on-saturday_us_5a00acb3e4b04cdbeb354d59?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said: The media is already connecting the dots. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-attorney-represented-saudi-billionaire-prince-arrested-on-saturday_us_5a00acb3e4b04cdbeb354d59?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313 If you're saying that somehow Trump's lawyer's connection is helpful to Alaweed, I think you've got it exactly wrong. A better case could be made that what got Alaweed detained is his insult directed at Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said: The media is already connecting the dots. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-attorney-represented-saudi-billionaire-prince-arrested-on-saturday_us_5a00acb3e4b04cdbeb354d59?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313 There's nothing in the link which comes close to what you posted earlier. That Trump, Kushner and Cobb are all denizens of the "swamp" is not disputed. Same goes for Trump having previous business dealings with Al-Waleed or Cobb formerly representing Al-Waleed. But the Aramco thing was never Al-Waleed's to decide, rather in the hands of Crown Prince. Kushner's meetings were with the latter, and the list of those accompanying him indicates that the visit was more related to the ongoing efforts on the Israeli-Palestinian front. Again, what exactly is it that you think happened? Trump sending Kushner to get the Crown Prince to arrest Al-Waleed for...what? Or Trump sending Kushner to try and convince the Crown Prince to list Aramco in the USA? These are two different things. The former, very unlikely, the latter probable - even if it wasn't the main purpose of Kushner's trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andaman Al Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 32 minutes ago, Morch said: Again, what exactly is it that you think happened? Trump sending Kushner to get the Crown Prince to arrest Al-Waleed for...what? Al-Waleed basically insulted Trump and you know what Trump is like, he always wants retribution. I think it started properly with this Tweet exchange. Quote “You are a disgrace not only to the GOP but to all America,” Prince Alwaleed, the chairman of Kingdom Holding 4280.SE , said on his Twitter account, addressing Trump and referring to the Republican Party. “Withdraw from the U.S presidential race as you will never win,” the prince added. Within hours, Trump’s response came back, also on Twitter. “Dopey Prince @Alwaleed_Talal wants to control our U.S. politicians with daddy’s money,” he said. “Can’t do it when I get elected.” It would not surprise me in the least if part of Kushner's agenda were to suggest that Trump would be very co-operative if life 'gets difficult' for Alwaleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonray Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 On 11/7/2017 at 3:11 PM, zydeco said: Saudis are making Game of Thrones look like a quilting bee. The Saudi ruling family makes the Trump admin look clean ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slip Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 50 minutes ago, Andaman Al said: Al-Waleed basically insulted Trump and you know what Trump is like, he always wants retribution. I think it started properly with this Tweet exchange. It would not surprise me in the least if part of Kushner's agenda were to suggest that Trump would be very co-operative if life 'gets difficult' for Alwaleed. Ever the statesman, Donald. The U.S. is so lucky to have him at the helm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 About the only man on the planet that has great confidence in the ruling party of KSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coulson Posted November 8, 2017 Share Posted November 8, 2017 7 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said: Top 10 Worst Counties for Human Rights: 10 - Nigeria 9 - Yeman 8 - Myanmar 7- Iraq 6 - Afganistan 5 - Somalia 4 - Pakistan 3 - The Democratic Republic of Congo 2 - Sudan 1 - Syria Just in case you were interested in actual facts as opposed to just jumping on the Trump-Haters bandwagon 'cause you like the tune. It's YEMEN. The list is flawed and manipulated. What is your source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 On 11/7/2017 at 9:02 AM, webfact said: Trump praises Saudi rulers after mass arrests for corruption Sounds like Trump is jealous that he can't rule by royal decree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwebb8825 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Slip said: Did you not notice that list comes from 2013? Here's a more up to date one (from 2016, amnesty) which actually came up above the one you quoted in my google search. Still not the worst country though- only no. 9. It's kind of interesting how different they are. I wonder if that is because of the time difference or that they are made by 2 different organisations. 10 - Syria 9 - Saudi Arabia 8 - Russia 7- Pakistan 6 - Kenya 5 - Israel 4 - Hungary 3 - Gambia 2 - Egypt 1 - China http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/amnesty-international-reveals-the-10-worst-attacks-on-human-rights-across-the-world-last-year-a6892911.html I think you've hit the nail on the head with your last statement. Surveys and results seems to vary greatly depending on who you ask. Just look at all the laughable, supposedly credible polls that were out the last 3 months of the election calling Clinton a sure fire winner by a landslide. Even she believed them to the point of spending $500+ million on a "History Making Glass Ceiling" she was set to shatter. Too bad there are so many that just can't see the forest for the trees. ETA: for those taking notice, N. Korea didn't make either list. Edited November 9, 2017 by mrwebb8825 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said: I think you've hit the nail on the head with your last statement. Surveys and results seems to vary greatly depending on who you ask. Just look at all the laughable, supposedly credible polls that were out the last 3 months of the election calling Clinton a sure fire winner by a landslide. Even she believed them to the point of spending $500+ million on a "History Making Glass Ceiling" she was set to shatter. Too bad there are so many that just can't see the forest for the trees. ETA: for those taking notice, N. Korea didn't make either list. But but but but but Hillary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 15 hours ago, Andaman Al said: Al-Waleed basically insulted Trump and you know what Trump is like, he always wants retribution. I think it started properly with this Tweet exchange. It would not surprise me in the least if part of Kushner's agenda were to suggest that Trump would be very co-operative if life 'gets difficult' for Alwaleed. I have no doubt that somewhere in Trump's mental bookkeeping, there's a little black mark near Al-Waleed's name. Doubt either him or Kushner would go to such lengths, though, especially with more important things on the agenda. The way I see it, Al-Waleed was targeted because he's a wildcard, and a bigmouth who doesn't have a whole lot of respect for authority. Not exactly traits the Crown Prince sees as conductive to his power consolidation moves. That it coincided with Trump's probable dislike of the guy is a side issue. The other angle, with regard to Al-Waleed's arrest may indeed be related to the Aramco thing, but probably more from the Saudi, rather than the USA angle. Again, that it works to the benefit of other parties, is not necessarily a clear indication of collusion or such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 13 hours ago, coulson said: It's YEMEN. The list is flawed and manipulated. What is your source? There are various lists such as these, published by multiple organizations or even being the result of ad hoc polls, surveys and aggregate analysis. There are many separate agendas, different issues focused on, differing ways of measurement and assessment. So while some countries make top ten almost on all of them, others' "rating" often fluctuates, sometimes widely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Trump is on the wrong side of every issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 On 11/7/2017 at 4:00 PM, rudi49jr said: The dunce in chief really is absolutely clueless, isn’t he? This has nothing to do with corruption, it’s just a power struggle. Yesterday a helicopter went down and a high-ranking prince was killed. Coincidence? I was going to say, in many places in the world, there's a microscopic thin line between "anti-corruption" campaigns and getting rid of your political opponents/rivals. As modern era Thailand well illustrates. Whether SA's latest move has anything to do with anti-corruption vs. just replacing Flavor A tyrants with Flavor B tyrants remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 46 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: I was going to say, in many places in the world, there's a microscopic thin line between "anti-corruption" campaigns and getting rid of your political opponents/rivals. As modern era Thailand well illustrates. Whether SA's latest move has anything to do with anti-corruption vs. just replacing Flavor A tyrants with Flavor B tyrants remains to be seen. Not mutually exclusive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 53 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Whether SA's latest move has anything to do with anti-corruption vs. just replacing Flavor A tyrants with Flavor B tyrants remains to be seen. If we had a scales of justice to weigh the relative levels of both elements, my guess would be that replacing Flavor A with Flavor B tyrants is probably the dominant element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Morch said: Not mutually exclusive.... But extremely doubtful: 2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: If we had a scales of justice to weigh the relative levels of both elements, my guess would be that replacing Flavor A with Flavor B tyrants is probably the dominant element. Given that the person proposing this graft cleanup is the same one who plunked down 550 million dollars on whim to buy a superyacht - the source of which money is decidedly opaque I know where I'm placing my bets. And he made that purchase while he was imposing austerity programs on Saudis at large. This doesn't speak highly of his intelligence or self-awareness. On the other hand, it is evidence of his extraordinary arrogance and impulsiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: If we had a scales of justice to weigh the relative levels of both elements, my guess would be that replacing Flavor A with Flavor B tyrants is probably the dominant element. Fair enough. Not suggesting that the Crown Prince is a paragon of virtue or even setting a very good personal example on these matters. And yet, his moves and policies seem to resonate positively with the populace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said: But extremely doubtful: Given that the person proposing this graft cleanup is the same one who plunked down 550 million dollars on whim to buy a superyacht - the source of which money is decidedly opaque I know where I'm placing my bets. And he made that purchase while he was imposing austerity programs on Saudis at large. This doesn't speak highly of his intelligence or self-awareness. On the other hand, it is evidence of his extraordinary arrogance and impulsiveness. I don't know whether the source of funds used to purchase the yacht was "decidedly opaque". Doubt there's full public disclosure on such transactions. That it was not a great PR move etc...Sure. Then again, did it actually effect his image within Saudi Arabia? Granted, criticism and dissent are not much of thing there, and all the more so with his family's stake at local mass media. But overall, he doesn't seem to be unpopular - especially with the younger generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, Morch said: Fair enough. Not suggesting that the Crown Prince is a paragon of virtue or even setting a very good personal example on these matters. And yet, his moves and policies seem to resonate positively with the populace. You mean like ANOTHER dictator who took power under the guise of attacking corruption, and then pretty clearly just re-directed the corruption from the other side more to their side??? That dictator seems to get pretty good public approval ratings in the polls, at least, the ones that they regularly announce... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilostmypassword Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Morch said: I don't know whether the source of funds used to purchase the yacht was "decidedly opaque". Doubt there's full public disclosure on such transactions. That it was not a great PR move etc...Sure. Then again, did it actually effect his image within Saudi Arabia? Granted, criticism and dissent are not much of thing there, and all the more so with his family's stake at local mass media. But overall, he doesn't seem to be unpopular - especially with the younger generations. This is the kind of thing that comes back to bite you when the going gets tough. It was an objectively stupid move. The obvious stance was for him to adopt at least a pretense of austerity for himself. It speaks to his arrogance and impulsiveness. And of course the source of money is opaque. The Saudi Royals do not release any info about how money gets distributed. To even question it is to invite big trouble for oneself. How much more opaque could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 35 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said: But extremely doubtful: Given that the person proposing this graft cleanup is the same one who plunked down 550 million dollars on whim to buy a superyacht - the source of which money is decidedly opaque As far as I'm concerned, regardless of which Saud flavor it is, I'd be happy if they spent ALL they money on yachts and palaces and jewels and harems (or sweaty bathhouses), etc etc... Just so long as in exchange, they stopped supporting and funding Islamic extremism and assorted fanatics and schools that teach their ideology... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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