Nordic Tourists Acquire Legionnaires' Disease In Thailand

[FRK]

PHUKET: -- Some of the winter holidaymakers who have booked their trips to Phuket through the Finnish travel operator Aurinkomatkat may have to cancel their vacation entirely or at least change their destination, as all hotels in Phuket are filled to capacity.

All Finns resident in the Grand Tropicana Hotel in Phuket are being transferred to other accommodation, and the popular beach resort hotel will not be used until it has been satisfactorily demonstrated whether or not dangerous Legionella bacteria are hiding in its water and air-conditioning systems.

Surely this threat is not limited to Finns, but that's what the articles suggest -- perhaps because they appear to come from a Finnish news source.

If the danger exists at the Grand Tropicana Hotel, anyone can be affected by it.

[เพลง]

I cannot be certain of this figure, but I bet 90%+ homes in Thailand do not have hot-water in the showers at all, and yet the people are just fine. No Legionnaire disease to speak of, much less any other problems.

I'm hedging my bets that a Finns/Nordics may have contracted the illness during their journey to Thailand, or by interacting with each other.

Of course they will be fine if they have no hot water. If the tanks on the hotel roofs are getting to 30-40 degrees © then they are providing and idyllic breeding ground for bacteria - bacteria loves this temperature range. While bacteria will still breed at temperatures of 5-30 degrees the process is much much slower. Under 5 degrees (probably not applicable to any water in southern Thailand!) and the breeding grinds to a virtual halt.

[Virgil]

Interesting that they are analysing water samples, since the Legionella bacterium is spread via air and inhalation of mists containing the pathogen.

Exactly bubba ... it breeds in water. In fact, water cooling towers which spray water around to cool a/c systems are the ideal spot fot Legionella to breed. Anyone down-wind of an infected cooling tower is prone to infection. This is not the same water that comes through the pipes to the a/c unit in individual hotel rooms at that is a closed system. The bacteria prefers well-oxygenated, warm water. It is uncommonly found in ponds, swamps, etc. where crypto type bugs are found.

Just thought I'd add my 2 baht worth.

Virgil, Out!

[Virgil]

I cannot be certain of this figure, but I bet 90%+ homes in Thailand do not have hot-water in the showers at all, and yet the people are just fine. No Legionnaire disease to speak of, much less any other problems.

I'm hedging my bets that a Finns/Nordics may have contracted the illness during their journey to Thailand, or by interacting with each other.

Of course they will be fine if they have no hot water. If the tanks on the hotel roofs are getting to 30-40 degrees © then they are providing and idyllic breeding ground for bacteria - bacteria loves this temperature range. While bacteria will still breed at temperatures of 5-30 degrees the process is much much slower. Under 5 degrees (probably not applicable to any water in southern Thailand!) and the breeding grinds to a virtual halt.

Good point. It is not a tropical desease. Outbreaks are most common in the temperate climates around 30 -35 degrees north and south of the equator. The Finns may have contracted the desease in transit somewhere.

Virgil, Out!

[phuketdiver]

I'm hedging my bets that a Finns/Nordics may have contracted the illness during their journey to Thailand, or by interacting with each other.

People get Legionnaires' disease when they breathe in a mist or vapor (small droplets of water in the air) that has been contaminated with the bacteria. One example might be from breathing in the steam from a whirlpool spa that has not been properly cleaned and disinfected.

The bacteria are NOT spread from one person to another person.

- CDC website

additionally from their website:

Legionnaires' disease can be very serious and can cause death in up to 30% of cases.

I wouldn't ever GO NEAR a public whirlpool/spa in Thailand !!! The western, developed world has VERY STRICT regulations when it comes to sanitation to deal especially with these jacuzzi/whirlpools/spas (pools are not that dangerous, as they do not evaporate the water "dust" in the same way)

1, All water has to pass through a professional UV-light system that kills all today known bacterias.

2, The "buubling" has to be turned OFF and ON in 15min cycles.

3, pH / free chlorine / combined chlorine has to be 24-7-365 regulated by sophistacated computerized automats/chemical pumps.

To double check the water quality has to be measured manually 3 times a day

4, The water system has to have a "bleed" - which means that old, used water has to be replaced with new, fresh.

These are only a few of the regulations. All routines are shall be logged and routines checked regularly by Health Authorities. KNOWING THE THAI "ATTITUDE", I SERIOUSLY DOUBT ANY OF THESE REGULATIONS ARE IN PLACE AND PRACTICED ....

As I know, - there are over 30 different kind of Legionella bacterias - but only a few of them are dangerous. The "mild" one can give a disease known as "Pontiac Fever" but are not DEADLY as the main one. As posted before, I would also think that if someone became sick from these bacterias, - surely the whole case would be "dismissed" as something else (re. the Bird Flu ...)

So, - be careful with you "bubbling" activities out there. Back in the west, there are regulations/routines to take care of it, - but here in the "Land of Mai Pen Rai / Maak Ngai" ???!!!

Ah - I love the complacancy of those of you who live in the west and the assumption that everything is better there than here in Thailand.

Do not assume just because there are laws and standards in the west that they are always adheard to - my father contracted Legionnaires at a very well known resort in the south of England 4 years ago and spent time in hospital as a result.

He to will not use a sp anymore - not here and especially not back home in the UK.

Lets wait and see what is confirmed as being the cause - there are outbreaks around Europe on a regular basis but the reporting is a little more responsible.

Lets be careful on the forums as many people believe everyhting they read on here as Gospel - Phuket is having its best season in a number of years - certainly not its best ever so lets support the island and act resposibly

Phuketdiver

[BigC]

thanks for that info. i live in a water tower. the water is not 100 percent clean. is it worth getting a water filter. will this help stop the spead of bacteria or will could the desease grow anyway.

[sriracha john]

Outbreaks are most common in the temperate climates around 30 -35 degrees north and south of the equator. The Finns may have contracted the desease in transit somewhere.

In any outbreak of diseases of this nature, the crux of the epidemilogical investigation is to discover the commonality of those afflicted (which btw, included more than just the Finns).

The OP provides that information:

The connection between the Legionella patients - the hotel in Phuket - was detected through the ECDC network.

Two Finns, one Norwegian, and two Swedish tourists have fallen ill with pneumonia caused by Legionella bacteria, after having stayed at the Phuket Grand Tropicana Hotel in Patong Beach, Phuket. All had been resident at the hotel in the period since November 20th.

While the 2 Finns, 1 Norwegian, and 2 Swedes MAY have all contracted the illness elsewheres on the rare fluke chance that they ALL had the same exact travel itinerary as their commonality factor, I would have confidence that the ECDC (who are experts in conducting these epidemilogical investigations) evaluated the other possibilities before coming to their conclusion.

[NBT TV Phuket]

Mini-video: Hoteliers in Phuket help keep watch against Legionnaires Disease to reassure health safety for tourists

Hoteliers and tourism entrepreneurs in Phuket joined a seminar to learn more about Legionnaires disease, a sudden lung infection from bacteria. A seminar was arranged by the provincial public health office, the Patong Municipality and the local tourism sector. This followed a foreign news report that the disease was found in a local hotel in Patong. Dr. Wanchai Sattayawutpong, the Chief Doctor of Phuket Public Health Office explained that the Legionnaires symptom is a sudden infection of bacteria from unclean water showers, hot water generators and air conditioners. In 2002 the disease spread to 700 patients in the western world. The disease affected the western tourism industry as hotels and accommodations were considered vulnerable for spreading the disease. Health personnel are now keeping a close watch and check to prevent the disease while it seeks cooperation from hoteliers for safety measures.

To see or download mini-video, go to http://www.thaisnews.com/news_detail.php?newsid=203363

from Andaman News TV11 (VHF dial) + Radio Thailand FM90.5 Phuket City, both broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces, 8.30am & later on Phuket Cable TV channel 1, Thursday 25 January 2007 & www.ThaisNews.com { Our news text and mini-videos can be freely copied , but please give credit to Andaman News TV11 Phuket}