brahmburgers Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 We don't know details. Even Lingyai, who is the fairest minded of those on this thread, said, 'he did kill a guy.' WE DON'T EVEN KNOW FOR SURE IF THAT'S TRUE. It could be that the Chinese man made a mistake which put him in harm's way. Condolences for sure, but let's hope cool heads prevail. Death is no small thing - though you'd be excused for thinking it's trivial in a country like Thailand, where thousands get killed in a clamp down on narcotics - scores get killed while in Military custody in southern Thailand. in southern and hundreds get killed on Thai highways eavery New Years and Songkran - and it all seems to be taken in stride. Let's put things in perspective, and hope the kid gets a fair shake and not a major shake-down - because he happens to be from a culture that isn't steeped in a tradition of blaming everybody else when things go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingling Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 well i made the assumption it was a swimmer he hit as they are taking legal action, I don't see a case to answer if both parties where on jet ski's, blame 50/50 how can it be anything else, there are no trafic regulations or rules when on a jet ski, if i see someone else on a ski I stay well away from them. There are very clear traffic rules on the sea, just as on land. Unfortunately, most hobby boaters don't know them. Also unfortunate is the fact that the size of the vessel rather than maximum speed etc regulates what certifications are required to operate one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman40 Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 first of all...here is the facts as we know them in denmark... 1) Both parts were on jetskis.... 2) the first judge deciced that the boy did NOT have the guilt.. 3) THEN the chinese mans "wife" demanded 500.000 DKR in "compensation" 4)now iwe heard that the lawyer will try to negociate it to 125.000 Dkr 5)their insurance wont help...as it stands in the policy that they dont cover for machines with more than 25 hk (horsepower)... 6) they guy who rented out the waterskies had no insurance... and no....he is not related with the famous hasselblad family...actually its a "rather common" scandinavian surname..... but when all that said.... i have to agree..its crasy to let a 15 year kid drive one of those machines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schiz0phren1c Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 I try not to be a jetski nazi hater, but as a diver(and a bloody experienced one),I had a bad experience while with a group on a close to shore dive(I was trying to get my girlfriend into diving)in...guess where? Phuket, even though we were well marked,with all the correct buoys etc(not to mention a bloody great boat parked overhead!), as we surfaced,two eejits on jetski's buzzed our group,and actually flew in x formation between my girlfriend and I and the rest of the group,she promptly panicked,lost buoancy and had to be hauled unceremoniously back to the surface,and calmed down+brought to the boat, Just two pissed up a-holes on jetski's,they probably thought it was great fun.... but if I'd found them that day(they vanished)they would have discovered what free diving to the bottom of Patong bay at nighttime with 40kilo's of ballast each was like.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Under what legal provision, are the police retaining the boy's passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Thanks for the eventual clarification. A "jetski on jetski" accident then? Darwin vindicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman40 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Under what legal provision, are the police retaining the boy's passport? dont really know... "thai logic" ill guess.. no actually...because of the demand from the girl..they want to wait for the results from the autopsy as far as i heard.. but they said that it could take up to 6 weeks.... another "thai as usual" speciallity.. i think its the thai way to put presseaure on the family... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 My condolences to all the people involved in this tragic accident and current ordeal. I don't quite understand the situation. Usually there has to be a finding of "fault" for a judgement to pay to be issued. If the boy wasn't at fault, then why does he have to pay compensation. I am wondering how the law is written in this regard. I am curious as to the circumstances that would allow for them to hold his passport if he did not commit a crime. This is especially puzzling since neither party are Thai nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Naturally, the police are hoping to profit financially from this episode. If an informal negotiated settlement is arrived at, they will take a cut. But they need leverage, so they retain the passport otherwise they will be bypassed and receive nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November Rain Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Funny how the article focuses more on the injustice of holding the boy's passport, rather than any remorse on his part or his familys'. I have heard from someone close to the Danish lawyer that was involved in negotiating for them in the first court case that they are "devastated & inconsolable". That certainly doesn't come across in the article. The same source said that the boy was days away from his 16th birthday, and had he been 16, he would have faced adult criminal charges. Don't know how accurate this is. IMO, he should not have been operating the jetski. Children should not operate dangerous machines. Whether the fault lies with him, his parents, the jetski owner who rented it out, or partially with the man who died, you can't deny that if the boy had been told by his parents or the jetski owner "No, you're too young", there would have been no accident, as he wouldn't have been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I can walk out of my front door and it's a fairly safe bet that I can see an under-16 riding a motorbike. Preventative rules are not enforced here. If there is an accident, you pay. If one of the parties involved are not poor and not well-connected, as European tourists are, then there is a good chance the police will try to shift any blame in that direction for their own profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I can walk out of my front door and it's a fairly safe bet that I can see an under-16 riding a motorbike. Preventative rules are not enforced here. If there is an accident, you pay. If one of the parties involved are not poor and not well-connected, as European tourists are, then there is a good chance the police will try to shift any blame in that direction for their own profit. This is true and is another profitable grey area for the scumbags in uniform to extort money from. Preventative rules basically do not exist here. Seemingly no-one can work out that irresponsible actions = tragic consequences. Its like when you see 3 young kids wiped out in a motorcycle crash, and the parents (who bought the bike for them and allowed them to ride around without helmets) are crying hysterically and trying to blame anyone but themselves for the tragedy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astral Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Under what legal provision, are the police retaining the boy's passport? Retaining a passport in lieu of bail, where criminal charges have been laid is not uncommon in Thailand. I hope this inccident will be resolve quickly. Don't the boat operators have insurance........... No I guess not, this is Thailand. I wonder how the immigration police will handle the possible overstay consequences. I expect the family came in on 30 day stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharknes Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I could care less if they lock him up and throw away the key forever regardless of his age. They may be fun to ride, but the danger and noise that they bring to everyone else around them is not worth the price to a civilized society. I despise jetskis, the self centered people that ride them and the danger and noise pollution they bring to beaches all over the world. I think that jetskis have only one valid use in our society and that is for the use by emergency personel. Even in swimming areas that are roped off, many times jetskiers ignore the buoys. Most people go out to the beach to enjoy peace and tranquility and not to listen to the noise of jetskis. Unfortunately mine is only a small voice in the wilderness as the manufacturers and jetski lobby have a lot of money, are extremely powerful and know how to use that power to influence legislation. Pattaya beach is a prime example of stupidity by mixing sunbathers, boats, jetskis, and swimmers(if someone likes to swim in pollution). Now that I have vented my ranting and raving for the day--I wish everyone a great day. ah right, lock people up throw away the key for annoying your peace and tranquility, lets intoduce the death penalty for all the noise makers in Thailand, including buses trucks harleys cars discos late night beer bars .................................... are you for real I think you conveniently forgot that he killed someone with his jetski but perhaps that does not bother you ?? I guess I have this old fashioned concept that people are responsible for their actions and must be willing to pay the consequences. I just happen to believe that those consequences should be expecially harsh on people that wind up killing someone while doing something that serves no useflul purpose and knowingly endangers the lives of innocent peoples around them. How on earth do you know he killed someone, what if said chinese person was also on a jet ski and drove into the 15yo lad, maybe the lady was driving (bad reporting I know) so she killed someone, accidents happen, lock him up and throw away the key ?????????? I just think your comments are harsh, all because jet ski's ruin your tranquility, how;s your tarnquility on beach road or walking street ? lock'em all up and throw away the key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampal Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 If this happened in the US, the kid would be tried as an adult and promptly executed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAWP Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 (edited) If this happened in the US, the kid would be tried as an adult and promptly executed They don't execute people for accidents in the US, even in Texas... And holding a persons passport due to a civil suit is crazy. Not to mention that in civil suits the evidence-level is so much lower that one might end up paying even thou one isn't guilty of anything. (See: O.J. - even though he might be guilty, but he Was aquited in the criminal trial.) Edited January 15, 2007 by TAWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 THEN the chinese mans "wife" demanded 500.000 DKR in "compensation" now iwe heard that the lawyer will try to negociate it to 125.000 Dkr The above is standard practise in Thailand. Chinese family.... well same same but different. BTW, I can absolutely think of which of the involved who probably used most sense when on the Jetski. On another note. Jetskis should have been banned from any place and Beach where people go for relax and swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljeque Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I have just read the story in BT, but it doesn't indicate whether the Chinese victim was swimming or on another jetski. I have the same question. The aritlce says that there was an accident with the couple, and we hear about one death, but not about an injury to the other member of the couple. I was under the assumption that there were two jetskis. If the jetski owners were forced to have insurance and also have bonds with the JetSki Assocation or Whatever Agency might be able to overlook these renters, then all a sudden problems would go away. Forcing responsibility creates solutions. There would then be clearly demarcated areas, and directions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November Rain Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 They were both on jetskis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roamer Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 There is no division in Cha-am between jet skis and swimmers, even if this accident did not involve a swimmer its only a matter of time before one does. Its especially hazardous in Cha-am as the waves there often means the jetski disappears from view, so what chance a swimmer being visible ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHarries Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 If the jetski owners were forced to have insurance and also have bonds with the JetSki Assocation or Whatever Agency might be able to overlook these renters, then all a sudden problems would go away. Forcing responsibility creates solutions. There would then be clearly demarcated areas, and directions etc. In Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 As the boy has not been charged with any criminal offence, we still don't know under what legal provision the police are retaining his passport and preventing his departure from Thailand. Could the family thus obtain temporary travel documents from the Danish Embassy and leave Thailand in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sibeymai Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 The use of all personal water craft (PWCs) was banned in Sydney Harbour several years ago due to the reckless disregard for safe navigation by users, despite users haveing to be licensed, the craft registered and patrols by enforcement officers. Even with such regulation and enforcement in place it was observed that many users somehow became lawless when operating PWCs and fatalities were going to be inevitable. As a foseshore resident and frequent user of the harbour I must say the ban was most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patex Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 ...BTW, I can absolutely think of which of the involved who probably used most sense when on the Jetski...I am too...I wouldnt let a Chinese operate a deckchair by himself or cross Pattaya Beachroad unattended... You think this is racist? Do a visit to the Pattaya Memorial or Pattaya International Hospital for further confirmation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsKnight Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I haven't read everyones posts but everybody who believes the chinese lad was in the water swimming about is incorrect. Both the Danish lad and the chinese lad were on jetskis. It was a jetski against a jetski. My source unfortunately witnessed elements of the incident and has posted about it on a Hua Hin Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSnake Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 SOS, same old story, I've seen Thais and farangs alike as young as ten or in one case younger, NO One says anything until the worse happen, than a big outcry for a week or so. Same hold true for Motorcycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November Rain Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 I haven't read everyones posts but everybody who believes the chinese lad was in the water swimming about is incorrect. Both the Danish lad and the chinese lad were on jetskis. It was a jetski against a jetski.My source unfortunately witnessed elements of the incident and has posted about it on a Hua Hin Forum. If it's the HH forum that I'm thinking of, no-one who witnessed the accident has posted on there. The person who is claiming to know many details & has posted on there is friendly with the Danish lawyer who was helping the family, and that's where he got his information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongoose Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Under what legal provision, are the police retaining the boy's passport? The well known but unwritten legal provision that often the Police are the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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