The Urgency of Addressing Iran’s Nuclear Threat

[Dumbastheycome]

9 hours ago, Get Real said:

I know! The way of thinking is unbelievable. Fight nukes with nukes...What a brilliant idea! 

A  result  of  the  grandiose posturing in  declaring   "nucular"  superiority !

Superiority  has  and  will  be  forever  challenged. And  sometimes if  not  often  successfully.

But  in  the   nuclear  contest  there  will  be  no  happy  winner.

[craigt3365]

8 hours ago, punchjudy said:

They only want the Yanks to backoff

And the rest of the world only wants North Korea to stop developing nuclear weapons. They are alone...except for your support. LOL

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed as well as the replies. 

[Trouble]

11 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Yes, hey both need to keep quiet but someone has to stop first. Since Trump consistently states American can wipe NKorea off the planet how about Trump taking the high road and keep his mouth quiet. Trump is as worthless as a three dollar bill- he has no concept of geopolitical affairs nor even how to talk to ordinary people.

Please tell us how Clinton, Bush, & Obama succeeded with their concepts of geopolitical affairs with regard to the DPRK.  It's not the rhetoric that is inflaming the situation, it is all of Kim's making.  No missiles, no nukes, and he could be trading with the world and improving his country.  They obviously have the technical talent to achieve things but they are wasting their energy trying to confront a world that has little interest in who runs the country, claiming it's for defense.  In the years since the Korean War ended no one has shown any interest in invading the North Korean wasteland. The fat boy thinks having nuclear bombs and missiles is somehow going to guarantee his longevity when all he will end up doing is isolating the country more. In my opinion, a time will come when not even Russia or China will want to be seen as dealing with the DPRK.  

[hawker9000]

17 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Yes, hey both need to keep quiet but someone has to stop first. Since Trump consistently states American can wipe NKorea off the planet how about Trump taking the high road and keep his mouth quiet. Trump is as worthless as a three dollar bill- he has no concept of geopolitical affairs nor even how to talk to ordinary people.

ROLFMAO.   And you no doubt classify fatboy as "ordinary people", with an "ordinary" concept of "geopolitical affairs?   hahahahahahaha   Now THAT'S funny!   And TRUMP should keep HIS mouth quiet.   55555555555

 

 

'Fatboy and his thug-loving sympathizers.   An overfilled clown car with its occupants screaming for a big red nuclear button.

 

[Ruffian Dick]

21 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Sadly, they are trying to do something about it. They are working on increasing their military. And South Korea is talking about getting their own nukes.

Yeah, see, the USA has nukes and now nobody bothers us. Do what we do and you'll be perfectly safe.

[Ruffian Dick]

7 hours ago, Trouble said:

Please tell us how Clinton, Bush, & Obama succeeded with their concepts of geopolitical affairs with regard to the DPRK.  It's not the rhetoric that is inflaming the situation, it is all of Kim's making.  No missiles, no nukes, and he could be trading with the world and improving his country.  They obviously have the technical talent to achieve things but they are wasting their energy trying to confront a world that has little interest in who runs the country, claiming it's for defense.  In the years since the Korean War ended no one has shown any interest in invading the North Korean wasteland. The fat boy thinks having nuclear bombs and missiles is somehow going to guarantee his longevity when all he will end up doing is isolating the country more. In my opinion, a time will come when not even Russia or China will want to be seen as dealing with the DPRK.  

Did Kim dare to launch ICBMs before Trump came along? I forgot, refresh my memory.

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Yeah, see, the USA has nukes and now nobody bothers us. Do what we do and you'll be perfectly safe.

 

I imagine South Korea will be inheriting North Korea's nuclear program in the not too distant future.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Did Kim dare to launch ICBMs before Trump came along? I forgot, refresh my memory.

He just developed the technology. So kinda hard to have launched them before Trump.  LOL

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Yeah, see, the USA has nukes and now nobody bothers us. Do what we do and you'll be perfectly safe.

Keep up. Nukes were developed as a result of WW2. And continued during the cold war. Nukes aren't needed for protection. South Africa gave them up. Norway doesn't have them, neither does Peru. And they seem to be ok. LOL

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Did Kim dare to launch ICBMs before Trump came along? I forgot, refresh my memory.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Korean_missile_tests

• ICBM engine tested  April 9, 2016
• North Korea claims to launch a missile capable of striking the United States  August 24, 2016
• North Korea tested a new rocket engine that could possibly be fitted to an intercontinental ballistic missile  June 23, 2017
• North Korea launched its first ICBM  July 4, 2017

 

 

 

 

[selftaopath]

21 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Nuclear proliferation is not the way- the more countries that have nuclear weapons -the more chances one can fall into the hands of a terror group.Negotiations to lower the level or all armaments is the goal.

The current regime - admin - is neutering the State Dept. so negotiations will be more of a struggle now; especially as big mouth stated "only his view counts." 

[DLang]

20 hours ago, sanemax said:

IF NK would stop trying to develop nukes, the whole world would just ignore them

Maybe they could come to a deal.... they stop developing theirs when the US decommissions all of theirs.

 

Fair is fair.

 

One country that has developed them (in alarming numbers), trying to tell another country that they can't develop them. 

 

Hmmm.

 

Jokeshop. 

 

 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, DLang said:

Maybe they could come to a deal.... they stop developing theirs when the US decommissions all of theirs.

 

Fair is fair.

 

One country that has developed them (in alarming numbers), trying to tell another country that they can't develop them. 

 

Hmmm.

 

Jokeshop. 

 

 

 

Fair got nothing to do with it.

And it's not just one country telling them no to, spin away.

[DLang]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

Fair got nothing to do with it.

 

Yeah, Uncle Sam don't play fairly. 

[Morch]

45 minutes ago, DLang said:

 

Yeah, Uncle Sam don't play fairly. 

 

Most countries don't. And spin it as much as you like, this isn't just about the USA.

[Ron19]

A troll post and answer to it have been removed.

[Happy Grumpy]

This regime is out of control.

 

Has been for 50+ years.

 

The US madmen need to get all their military back to their own side of the World and stay there. Look out for their own living in poverty and camps (US prisons) and stop threatening men with annihilation half way round the World. 

[hawker9000]

15 hours ago, DLang said:

Maybe they could come to a deal.... they stop developing theirs when the US decommissions all of theirs.

 

Fair is fair.

 

One country that has developed them (in alarming numbers), trying to tell another country that they can't develop them. 

 

Hmmm.

 

Jokeshop. 

 

 

Yes, that's a Jokeshop alright.

 

For the 57,875th time, it's NOT just the U.S.   Why does this epic piece of lame misinformation constantly get repeated by thug sympathizers?   Don't they realize how laughable it is?   It's instead the whole world, including the UN, and ostensibly including even China, their sponsor, protector, big brother, feeding tit, whatever...   Oh, of course with the single exception of Iran, who can pay them for borrowing the technology for their OWN nefarious purposes, thanks to their restored cash flows (thanks in turn to boy statesman...).

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

On 11/30/2017 at 7:57 AM, craigt3365 said:

Keep up. Nukes were developed as a result of WW2. And continued during the cold war. Nukes aren't needed for protection. South Africa gave them up. Norway doesn't have them, neither does Peru. And they seem to be ok. LOL

 

Insight: The thinking behind Kim Jong Un's 'madness'

In Kim's view, Saddam Hussein of Iraq and Muammar Gaddafi of Libya were fatally weakened by not having nuclear weapons, North Korean media say. "History proves that powerful nuclear deterrence serves as the strongest treasured sword for frustrating outsiders' aggression," the official KCNA news agency said in an editorial in January 2016.

 

North Korea is racing to achieve a nuclear deterrent because the state feels threatened, worrying particularly that Kim may face a fate like Gaddafi. The Libyan leader agreed in 2003 to eliminate his weapons of mass destruction; in 2011, he was killed by rebels that the United States and its allies had supported.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1013875-insight-the-thinking-behind-kim-jong-uns-madness/

[craigt3365]

53 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Insight: The thinking behind Kim Jong Un's 'madness'

In Kim's view, Saddam Hussein of Iraq and Muammar Gaddafi of Libya were fatally weakened by not having nuclear weapons, North Korean media say. "History proves that powerful nuclear deterrence serves as the strongest treasured sword for frustrating outsiders' aggression," the official KCNA news agency said in an editorial in January 2016.

 

North Korea is racing to achieve a nuclear deterrent because the state feels threatened, worrying particularly that Kim may face a fate like Gaddafi. The Libyan leader agreed in 2003 to eliminate his weapons of mass destruction; in 2011, he was killed by rebels that the United States and its allies had supported.

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1013875-insight-the-thinking-behind-kim-jong-uns-madness/

Agreed. All dictators are now worried about ending up like Hussein and Gaddafi. Even Putin is thinking about it.

 

Great stuff. The people deserve better.

[Morch]

38 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Agreed. All dictators are now worried about ending up like Hussein and Gaddafi. Even Putin is thinking about it.

 

Great stuff. The people deserve better.

 

I think there's the matter of how countries fare post-dictator.

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Agreed. All dictators are now worried about ending up like Hussein and Gaddafi. Even Putin is thinking about it.

 

Great stuff. The people deserve better.

Dictators and autocrats have always worried about ending up just as badly as did Hussein and Gaddafi.  That comes with the territory.

[thaihome]

On 11/29/2017 at 6:50 PM, Grouse said:

They've got them

 

They've got ICBMs

 

You want to wait further?

 

I really think a sharp lesson is required.

 

Splash a Trident warhead (unarmed) just offshore.

 

Then conventional cruise strikes on all launch facilities.

 

If Trump doesn't have the balls, The British will do it for you.

And what is your plan for the thousands of conventional artillery and short range missiles embedded along the DMZ that will take several weeks to locate and destroy, which, in the meantime, will kill an estimated million people living in greater Seoul,  including a couple hundred thousand Americans, Brits, and Europeans?

 

There is no simple solution. The first thing the world has to come to terms is N. Korea now has nuclear weapons and a sophisticated delivery system.  Deterrence is the only sensible policy at this point. Kim may be many unpleasant things, but suicidal is not one of them.

TH 

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, thaihome said:

And what is your plan for the thousands of conventional artillery and short range missiles embedded along the DMZ that will take several weeks to locate and destroy, which, in the meantime, will kill an estimated million people living in greater Seoul,  including a couple hundred thousand Americans, Brits, and Europeans?

 

There is no simple solution. The first thing the world has to come to terms is N. Korea now has nuclear weapons and a sophisticated delivery system.  Deterrence is the only sensible policy at this point. Kim may be many unpleasant things, but suicidal is not one of them.

TH 

 

I doubt very much that them "conventional artillery and short range missiles" are not accounted for and constantly monitored. Finding and targeting them will not take "several weeks", especially as each salvo tends to expose the location further. The point is that even a partial activation of such an artillery attack will result in mass casualties and quite a lot of damage. That's just figuring conventional armaments - can easily be more complicated if chemical or biological weapons are used. As for casualty figures estimated at "millions" - I think that's exaggerating things, not that it's really the point, though.

 

North Korea does have a nuclear weapons and apparently got a delivery system. Whether or not they achieved a marriage of the two is another matter, although just a question of time anyway.

 

Kim being suicidal or not is off mark. How much can he be trusted to comply with "accepted" norms of nuclear deterrence? What happens if he gets spooked? There are no easy solutions, indeed - but ignoring issues pertaining to such a deterrence situation is not helpful either.

 

 

[thaihome]

45 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I doubt very much that them "conventional artillery and short range missiles" are not accounted for and constantly monitored. Finding and targeting them will not take "several weeks", especially as each salvo tends to expose the location further. The point is that even a partial activation of such an artillery attack will result in mass casualties and quite a lot of damage. That's just figuring conventional armaments - can easily be more complicated if chemical or biological weapons are used. As for casualty figures estimated at "millions" - I think that's exaggerating things, not that it's really the point, though.

 

North Korea does have a nuclear weapons and apparently got a delivery system. Whether or not they achieved a marriage of the two is another matter, although just a question of time anyway.

 

Kim being suicidal or not is off mark. How much can he be trusted to comply with "accepted" norms of nuclear deterrence? What happens if he gets spooked? There are no easy solutions, indeed - but ignoring issues pertaining to such a deterrence situation is not helpful either.

 

 

You added an "s" to my estimated casualties.  Shame on you who takes such exceptions to others doing so.

 

If chemical and biological weapons are used before any evacuations take place, a million people dying is not unreasonable in such a dense urban area.

 

 There are many opinions on the theoretical  effectiveness of the N. Korean conventional weapons lined up behind the DMZ in positions they have had 50 years to develop.  

 

Here is one from an ex-battalion commander in Korea.

“These perfectly positioned offensive artillery firing positions are virtually impenetrable, extremely difficult to take out by counterfire,” said retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert H. Scales. “The terrain greatly favors the North, this arc of south-facing granite mountainsides just over the [Demilitarized Zone], in a position to pummel Seoul for weeks on end.” This leaves South Korea and the U.S. “with very little real capability to respond.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-korea-artillery_us_58f631a4e4b0b9e9848eb990

 

TH 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, thaihome said:

You added an "s" to my estimated casualties.  Shame on you who takes such exceptions to others doing so.

 

If chemical and biological weapons are used before any evacuations take place, a million people dying is not unreasonable in such a dense urban area.

 

 There are many opinions on the theoretical  effectiveness of the N. Korean conventional weapons lined up behind the DMZ in positions they have had 50 years to develop.  

 

Here is one from an ex-battalion commander in Korea.

“These perfectly positioned offensive artillery firing positions are virtually impenetrable, extremely difficult to take out by counterfire,” said retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert H. Scales. “The terrain greatly favors the North, this arc of south-facing granite mountainsides just over the [Demilitarized Zone], in a position to pummel Seoul for weeks on end.” This leaves South Korea and the U.S. “with very little real capability to respond.”

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/north-korea-artillery_us_58f631a4e4b0b9e9848eb990

 

TH 

 

It was a typo, not a deliberate misrepresentation. And I still think it's exaggerated.

Edited December 1, 2017 by Morch

[thaihome]

25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

It was a typo, not a deliberate misrepresentation. And I still think it's exaggerated.

There are many estimates of what the second Korean War would cost. Certainly a million people may be on the high side, but it is close to the opinion of most war planners.

1994, when President Bill Clinton contemplated the use of force to knock out the North’s nuclear weapons program, the then commander of U.S.-Republic of Korea forces, Gary Luck, told his commander in chief that a war on the peninsula would likely result in 1 million dead, and nearly $1 trillion of economic damage.

http://www.newsweek.com/2017/05/05/what-war-north-korea-looks-588861.html

TH

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, thaihome said:

And what is your plan for the thousands of conventional artillery and short range missiles embedded along the DMZ that will take several weeks to locate and destroy, which, in the meantime, will kill an estimated million people living in greater Seoul,  including a couple hundred thousand Americans, Brits, and Europeans?

 

There is no simple solution. The first thing the world has to come to terms is N. Korea now has nuclear weapons and a sophisticated delivery system.  Deterrence is the only sensible policy at this point. Kim may be many unpleasant things, but suicidal is not one of them.

TH 

They wouldn't have time

 

Tell them in advance that the initial conventional strike is limited

 

If they retaliate, nuclear main-strike within 30mins

 

Anyone still in Korea at a time like this takes a major risk.

 

My daughter is going snow boarding in SK over Christmas so it would be good if the attack was sometime in January OK?

[Morch]

59 minutes ago, thaihome said:

There are many estimates of what the second Korean War would cost. Certainly a million people may be on the high side, but it is close to the opinion of most war planners.

 

 

TH

 

There's a difference between casualty estimates for a North Korean artillery attack on Seoul, and the total casualty estimate for a full scale war. As I understood it, the original figure cited in your post referred to the former - which I still find exaggerated.