EU tells Poland to reverse judicial reforms or face sanctions

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It would take far too long to detail all the myriad things wrong with the failed experiment, but Greece and illegal immigration are just a couple of things that it should be dumped over.

I have plenty of time to discuss your points 

 

I think the Greeks joined under false pretences; they didn't meet the required acceptance criteria

 

With regard to immigration, do you object to free movement of labour or are you objecting to the Muslim inrush?

 

Finally, do you see no positive attributes to the EU? I see several.

[aright]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Finally, do you see no positive attributes to the EU? I see several.

Yes! I do like the Italians!

 

A Greek and Italian were arguing over who had the superior culture. The Greek says:
– We have the Parthenon.
Arching his eyebrows, the Italian replies:
– We have the Coliseum.
The Greek retorts:
– We Greeks gave birth to advanced mathematics.
The Italian, nodding agreement, says,
– But we built the Roman Empire.
And so on and so on until the Greek comes up with what he thinks will end the discussion. With a flourish of finality he says:
– We invented sex!
The Italian replies:
– That is true, but it was the Italians who introduced it to women.

[Sir Dude]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I have plenty of time to discuss your points 

 

OK...well here are 10 reasons why the EU is not working and will fail. As you are an optimistic remoaner, let's hear it man on the following and let the folks of TV caste their judgment...should be fair:

 

1.  Brexit - The very fact that the UK is leaving despite the best efforts of the liberal collective is a massive blow which ever way you shake it.

2. The failure of European Neoliberalism - The average European has seen a decline in their wealth whereas the average person in comparative places such as Canada or Australia have seen a growth.

3. Immigration - The EU has had this as a cornerstone of their policy for a long time but fails to realise that Europe cannot simply absorb everyone from everywhere who has a hard luck case. The populations of Africa and Asia are exploding in an unsustainable way and it's only going to get worse and the siege of Europe and such places will only intensify.

4. Bullying people or countries for thinking differently doesn't work anymore - This is why the rise of the right has happened and you get the likes of Eurosceptic parties etc., the election of Trump and a few other things due to the liberals having done this for decades. No-one to blame but themselves.

5. Corporatism - Big business decides too much and their needs and wants are pandered to at the expense of what is good for the average Joe or the country and it's needs.

6. Economic stagnation - Kids now and younger people are screwed and if you got a degree you are at a worse chance of getting a job than ever before. You should have studied a skill instead.

7.Islamic terrorism and the far-right - The refusal of the left to confront these two entities and bring things back to the middle or center left has been very telling. The failure of the left to address Islamic terrorism and the immigrants refusal to adopt European culture has only led to sectarianism in major cities along religious/cultural grounds and what they want least...the rise of the right. No-one else to blame but themselves for their inaction and hubris.

8. The EU currency is a dead weight and a sick man of the world economy - Those in Brussels are more interested in social engineering than business and making the EU members rich.

9. Actually, the original mission of the EU has already been met...which was to stop the Germans and the French from Killing each other and has been a resounding success. They have proved though to be a bit rudderless since the completion of this and now is looking a mess due to their grand plans for some EU superstate that ultimately only a minority want.

10. The EU is undemocratic at it's core and there is no way to vote their officials out by the public of the member states. Take Junckers for example, his appointment to his position is one done by the governments of the EU, not it's public and there is no way to get rid of him.

 

I could go on, got pages worth of this stuff...haha, but will leave it there. 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Sir Dude
Typos

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I have plenty of time to discuss your points 

 

I think the Greeks joined under false pretences; they didn't meet the required acceptance criteria

 

With regard to immigration, do you object to free movement of labour or are you objecting to the Muslim inrush?

 

Finally, do you see no positive attributes to the EU? I see several.

I see many positive attributes to the EU, such as the lack of borders within it, but it's more a case of what it could have become ( a shining light of hope in an insane world ), but the bureaucrats blew it, as they always do ( Douglas Adams had the right solution for them ).

 

Re immigration, it's that some of the EU nations are encouraging the unfettered influx of aliens that have no cultural alignment with Europeans, and insisting that those nations that object have no choice but to take them. Hardly democratic, is it?

[aright]

4 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

OK...well here are 10 reasons why the EU is not working and will fail. As you are an optimistic remoaner, let's hear it man on the following and let the folks of TV caste their judgment...should be fair:

 

1.  Brexit - The very fact that the UK is leaving despite the best efforts of the liberal collective is a massive blow which ever way you shake it.

2. The failure of European Neoliberalism. The average European has seen a decline in their wealth whereas the average person in comparative  places such as Canada or Australia have seen a growth.

3. Immigration - The EU has had this as a cornerstone of their policy for a long time but fails to realise that Europe cannot simply absorb everyone from everywhere who has a hard luck case. The populations of Africa and Asia are exploding in an unsustainable way and it's only going to get worse and the siege of Europe and such places will only intensify.

4. Bullying people or countries for thinking differently doesn't work anymore. This is why the rise of the right has happened and you get the likes of Eurosceptic parties etc., the election of Trump and a few other things due to the liberals having done thins for decades. No one to blame but themselves.

5. Corporatism - Big business decides too much and their needs and wants are pandered to at the expense of what is good for the average Joe or the country and it's needs.

6. Economic stagnation - Kids now and younger people are screwed and if you got a degree you are at a worse chance of getting a job than ever before. You should have studied a skill instead.

7.Islamic terrorism and the far-right - The refusal of the left to confront these two entities and bring things back to the middle or center left has been very telling. The failure of the left to address Islamic terrorism and their refusal to adopt European culture has only led to what they want least...the rise of the right. No-one else to blame but themselves for their inaction and hubris.

8. The EU currency is a dead weight and a sick man of the world economy - Those in Brussels are more interested in social engineering than business and making the EU members rich.

9. Actually, the original mission of the EU has already been met...which was to stop the Germans and the French from Killing each other and has been a resounding success. They have proved though to be a bit rudderless since the completion of this and now is looking a mess due to their grand plans for some EU superstate that ultimately a minority want.

10. The EU is undemocratic at it's core and there is no way to vote their officials out by the public of the member states. Take Junckers for example, his appointment to his position is one done by the governments of the EU, not it's public and there is no way to get rid of him.

 

I could go on, got pages worth of this stuff...haha, but will leave it there. 

 

Sounds good to me.

You are wasting your time SD I have asked Grouse and others to tell us where they see the EU 5 and 10 years from now. They either don't know or choose to ignore a question that is above their intellectual grade. I just hope they don't answer because they don't care.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

OK...well here are 10 reasons why the EU is not working and will fail. As you are an optimistic remoaner, let's hear it man on the following and let the folks of TV caste their judgment...should be fair:

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

I agree with everything you wrote except putting Australia up as a model of prosperity.

They have been afflicted with the same failed "multicultural" dogma as Europe, and now have far more people than can ever get a proper job, and the impending dumping of 50,000 redundant car workers into the unemployment pool is going to have massive and undesirable consequences, for all the obvious reasons. Since Australian dirt became significantly devalued, they have been heading for a bruising, no matter how many Kiwis they deport.

Edited December 21, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, aright said:

Sounds good to me.

You are wasting your time SD I have asked Grouse and others to tell us where they see the EU 5 and 10 years from now. They either don't know or choose to ignore a question that is above their intellectual grade. I just hope they don't answer because they don't care.

Quite untrue. I responded to that eons ago

[Grouse]

19 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

OK...well here are 10 reasons why the EU is not working and will fail. As you are an optimistic remoaner, let's hear it man on the following and let the folks of TV caste their judgment...should be fair:

 

1.  Brexit - The very fact that the UK is leaving despite the best efforts of the liberal collective is a massive blow which ever way you shake it.

2. The failure of European Neoliberalism - The average European has seen a decline in their wealth whereas the average person in comparative places such as Canada or Australia have seen a growth.

3. Immigration - The EU has had this as a cornerstone of their policy for a long time but fails to realise that Europe cannot simply absorb everyone from everywhere who has a hard luck case. The populations of Africa and Asia are exploding in an unsustainable way and it's only going to get worse and the siege of Europe and such places will only intensify.

4. Bullying people or countries for thinking differently doesn't work anymore - This is why the rise of the right has happened and you get the likes of Eurosceptic parties etc., the election of Trump and a few other things due to the liberals having done this for decades. No-one to blame but themselves.

5. Corporatism - Big business decides too much and their needs and wants are pandered to at the expense of what is good for the average Joe or the country and it's needs.

6. Economic stagnation - Kids now and younger people are screwed and if you got a degree you are at a worse chance of getting a job than ever before. You should have studied a skill instead.

7.Islamic terrorism and the far-right - The refusal of the left to confront these two entities and bring things back to the middle or center left has been very telling. The failure of the left to address Islamic terrorism and the immigrants refusal to adopt European culture has only led to sectarianism in major cities along religious/cultural grounds and what they want least...the rise of the right. No-one else to blame but themselves for their inaction and hubris.

8. The EU currency is a dead weight and a sick man of the world economy - Those in Brussels are more interested in social engineering than business and making the EU members rich.

9. Actually, the original mission of the EU has already been met...which was to stop the Germans and the French from Killing each other and has been a resounding success. They have proved though to be a bit rudderless since the completion of this and now is looking a mess due to their grand plans for some EU superstate that ultimately only a minority want.

10. The EU is undemocratic at it's core and there is no way to vote their officials out by the public of the member states. Take Junckers for example, his appointment to his position is one done by the governments of the EU, not it's public and there is no way to get rid of him.

 

I could go on, got pages worth of this stuff...haha, but will leave it there. 

 

Interesting Sir Dud

 

I will respond over night when I have had a chance to consider your erudite contribution.

[Sir Dude]

Fair enough man...and after that we can see what the rest of the forum thinks that is interested in this subject.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

Fair enough man...and after that we can see what the rest of the forum thinks that is interested in this subject.

I think Germany is destroying the EU with it's immigration policies, but I don't know if it's deliberate or just a consequence of stupid policies.

[CG1 Blue]

8 hours ago, Becker said:

Yes, sure. Making "unrestricted" (whatever that means) trade deals is so much easier when your bargaining power is based on representing 60 million people compared to a block of 350 million people....

 

Population is not an accurate measure to use when looking at economies and future prosperity. It's not all about the total number of people. If you combine the populations of Nigeria and Bangladesh you get more than 350m people.

[CG1 Blue]

7 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So, in your view, national sovereignty is sacred? And if they start jailing their political opponents? Of if they create concentration camps? The EU should still do nothing?

What did the EU do when Spain sent in the police to beat the crap out of Catalan independence supporters?

The EU pick and choose their battles to suit their own agenda.

[i claudius]

Part of signing up to the EU, is of course accepting its values. You can't have you cake, and eat it!

No but you can leave.by by Brussels

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Becker]

29 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Population is not an accurate measure to use when looking at economies and future prosperity. It's not all about the total number of people. If you combine the populations of Nigeria and Bangladesh you get more than 350m people.

As you well know I was talking about the EU, not impoverished 3rd world countries with an economy of one single mid sized European country. 

[observer90210]

 Once again...Bruxelles dictating it's despotic rule to fellow EU members....I don't mean to be caty or uncouth, but the EU will implode at one point...the question is just when ?...In the meantime,  I think that I will sell all my €uros and trade in the sweet stable Swiss Franc .....and I wish just to say one word to the UK....Bravo !!!!.

Edited December 21, 2017 by observer90210

[CG1 Blue]

I think the situation in Poland demonstrates exactly why political union across multiple countries is doomed to failure. Different countries have different cultures, behaviours and values. I love the varying traits of the people from different countries across Europe. I don't want Europe to be homogenised.

Cracks are starting to show in the EU experiment.  Troubles with Poland, Hungary, Austria and others, on top of the UK (2nd largest contributor) leaving.

I hope after the EU collapses we can all enter a sensible trade only type arrangement - which is what the common market was all about.

[anon537687643]

An organisation that’s had its day ! 40 years later and it’s falling apart! From an economic trading area to a federal grouping! The voters won’t have it! There are around 300 UK MPs who still dont get it!


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, Becker said:

I guess that for one who supports the abomination in the WH the EU might seem like a fiasco. For those of us who base our opinions more on facts than slogans it's a resounding success.

WH Smith? 

Edited December 21, 2017 by nauseus

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Becker said:

As you well know I was talking about the EU, not impoverished 3rd world countries with an economy of one single mid sized European country. 

My point is, there are vast differences in GDP and general wealth across the EU 27, so lumping them all together invalidates your original point. It would stand up if all 27 were like Germany or the UK in terms of their economies.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

OK...well here are 10 reasons why the EU is not working and will fail. As you are an optimistic remoaner, let's hear it man on the following and let the folks of TV caste their judgment...should be fair:

 

1.  Brexit - The very fact that the UK is leaving despite the best efforts of the liberal collective is a massive blow which ever way you shake it.

2. The failure of European Neoliberalism - The average European has seen a decline in their wealth whereas the average person in comparative places such as Canada or Australia have seen a growth.

3. Immigration - The EU has had this as a cornerstone of their policy for a long time but fails to realise that Europe cannot simply absorb everyone from everywhere who has a hard luck case. The populations of Africa and Asia are exploding in an unsustainable way and it's only going to get worse and the siege of Europe and such places will only intensify.

4. Bullying people or countries for thinking differently doesn't work anymore - This is why the rise of the right has happened and you get the likes of Eurosceptic parties etc., the election of Trump and a few other things due to the liberals having done this for decades. No-one to blame but themselves.

5. Corporatism - Big business decides too much and their needs and wants are pandered to at the expense of what is good for the average Joe or the country and it's needs.

6. Economic stagnation - Kids now and younger people are screwed and if you got a degree you are at a worse chance of getting a job than ever before. You should have studied a skill instead.

7.Islamic terrorism and the far-right - The refusal of the left to confront these two entities and bring things back to the middle or center left has been very telling. The failure of the left to address Islamic terrorism and the immigrants refusal to adopt European culture has only led to sectarianism in major cities along religious/cultural grounds and what they want least...the rise of the right. No-one else to blame but themselves for their inaction and hubris.

8. The EU currency is a dead weight and a sick man of the world economy - Those in Brussels are more interested in social engineering than business and making the EU members rich.

9. Actually, the original mission of the EU has already been met...which was to stop the Germans and the French from Killing each other and has been a resounding success. They have proved though to be a bit rudderless since the completion of this and now is looking a mess due to their grand plans for some EU superstate that ultimately only a minority want.

10. The EU is undemocratic at it's core and there is no way to vote their officials out by the public of the member states. Take Junckers for example, his appointment to his position is one done by the governments of the EU, not it's public and there is no way to get rid of him.

 

I could go on, got pages worth of this stuff...haha, but will leave it there. 

 

No need to go on, I  think. Absolutely Fabulous! TY.

Edited December 21, 2017 by nauseus

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I have plenty of time to discuss your points 

 

I think the Greeks joined under false pretences; they didn't meet the required acceptance criteria

 

With regard to immigration, do you object to free movement of labour or are you objecting to the Muslim inrush?

 

Finally, do you see no positive attributes to the EU? I see several.

A Greek rerun. The EU breaks its own rules........... so Greece got in. Both guilty but Greece..economically eviscerated. 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by nauseus

[Retiredandhappyhere]

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

You're wasting your time! This crowd have NO IDEA what is happening in Poland and why.

 

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2016/01/economist-explains-7

Wow, more of the usual arrogance from Grouse!  He clearly believes he is the only one who fully understands what is happening in the world today and particularly with regard to the EU's operations and, of course, Brexit

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Wow, more of the usual arrogance from Grouse!  He clearly believes he is the only one who fully understands what is happening in the world today and particularly with regard to the EU's operations and, of course, Brexit

Yes, Grouse, you should explain!

[aright]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Yes, Grouse, you should explain!

Sometimes the easiest way to solve a problem is to deny it exists.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

I have plenty of time to discuss your points 

 

I think the Greeks joined under false pretences; they didn't meet the required acceptance criteria

 

With regard to immigration, do you object to free movement of labour or are you objecting to the Muslim inrush?

 

Finally, do you see no positive attributes to the EU? I see several.

Yes, the Greeks joined the EU under false pretences, and who was it who allowed them to do it, knowing full well that the statistics had been massively massaged?  

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

I have plenty of time to discuss your points 

 

I think the Greeks joined under false pretences; they didn't meet the required acceptance criteria

 

With regard to immigration, do you object to free movement of labour or are you objecting to the Muslim inrush?

 

Finally, do you see no positive attributes to the EU? I see several.

Don't you mean the EU allowed Greece to join despite them not meeting the criteria? 

 

On immigration I personally object to Merkel's open door policy that has allowed endless unchecked immigration from parts of the world where terrorism is rife, and allowed those people to begin the process of becoming EU citizens, i.e. free to live in any EU member state.

 

 

[citybiker]

Post #33 is a fair analysis.

The EU is still yet to face challenges that will affect the remains MS, fiscal being the prime issue and when individual states face possible reduced benefits along with other MS having to increase subscription's the harmonious Brussels will have no choice but to prioritise self reform.

I won't hold my breath, however the UK will be watching it unfold from the terraces.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

14 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So, in your view, national sovereignty is sacred? And if they start jailing their political opponents? Of if they create concentration camps? The EU should still do nothing?

What did the EU do when Spain sent in the police to beat the crap out of Catalan independence supporters?

The EU pick and choose their battles to suit their own agenda.

 

And Spain jailed it's political opponents without a squawk from the EU.

[Khun Han]

14 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

All EU Member States are committed to ensuring the fundamental values of democracy in their sovereign states.
The three fundamental pillars are the separation of the three forces: Legislative, executive, judiciary.
How each state organizes its state structure within these core values does not matter to the EU as long as the basic principle of the separation of powers is respected.
If this separation of powers is no longer clear, a country is moving towards dictatorship.
And in Poland, the current government is trying to limit this separation of powers.
The effects can already be seen, e.g. with the illegal
Deforestation in Bialowieza nature reserve, where corrupt regional politicians filling up there private pockets.

 

You see those effects because of the corrupt judiciary installed by previous regimes. A judiciary which was self-perpetuating under previous 'separation'. The so-called controversial new laws are an attempt by the current government to deal with this ingrained judicial corruption.

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, observer90210 said:

 Once again...Bruxelles dictating it's despotic rule to fellow EU members....I don't mean to be caty or uncouth, but the EU will implode at one point...the question is just when ?...In the meantime,  I think that I will sell all my €uros and trade in the sweet stable Swiss Franc .....and I wish just to say one word to the UK....Bravo !!!!.

Look at a CHFEUR one year chart. Never mind.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by SheungWan