SurinBeach Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Hi All, So my shower pressure is pretty OK but I would like a really great shower in the mornings. I have a well with a new Mitsubishi WP 205Q5 pump that supplies water on demand, and plenty of water in the well I've installed a new Stiebel Eltron 8Kw instantaneous Water heater. I've bought a few different shower heads, chose my favourite and removed the plastic "thingy" that is either there to collect debris or restrict water pressure. With current setup the shower hose still has a brass device both ends that reduces flow to just a few millimetres, any tips on this, I've been looking on the www for different hoses etc but not found any joy yet ... Are there hoses that have wider brass ends ? Do the small brass ends make a difference anyways ? Anyone been down the same route as me ? Happy to hear any suggestions !!! Cheers SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGW Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 There's going to be a lot of variables come into play! my first thought would be what size is the piping going to the bathroom? if it is unable to handle any more volume not a lot of point altering the shower heater which will be 'optimized"! Generally Thai construction has 1/2" pipe to bathrooms, obviously you would have more flow through 3/4" pipe which is then reduced down to fit the heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 There are a myriad of shower heads just look for one with many large orifices or one designed for vertical drop. Where is the shower? 2nd or 3rd floor? I have a WP205 pump and my shower is on the 3rd floor. It works well enough for me. I previously had a Stiebel under-sink heater. I'm going with the flexible hoses that the local plumber used to connect the heater. There is one on the inlet and one on the outlet. Go up a size. Mine fed a bath and a shower had no problem filling the bath or having a shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted December 27, 2017 Share Posted December 27, 2017 Check to see if the heater has an internal flow restricting thingy, some heaters have such a thing so you can control thru' put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 8 hours ago, CGW said: There's going to be a lot of variables come into play! my first thought would be what size is the piping going to the bathroom? if it is unable to handle any more volume not a lot of point altering the shower heater which will be 'optimized"! Generally Thai construction has 1/2" pipe to bathrooms, obviously you would have more flow through 3/4" pipe which is then reduced down to fit the heater. standard 1/2", but then again doesn't this tiny brass thing at both ends of the shower hose make all that slightly irrelevant ? Just asking by the way, I'm sure there's some sort of fluid physics dynamics that I skipped 40 years ago that might explain it all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 6 hours ago, VocalNeal said: There are a myriad of shower heads just look for one with many large orifices or one designed for vertical drop. Where is the shower? 2nd or 3rd floor? I have a WP205 pump and my shower is on the 3rd floor. It works well enough for me. I previously had a Stiebel under-sink heater. I'm going with the flexible hoses that the local plumber used to connect the heater. There is one on the inlet and one on the outlet. Go up a size. Mine fed a bath and a shower had no problem filling the bath or having a shower. Shower on Ground floor, single story house. Re go up a size, so can I get a wider hose that fits the standard heater/shower head then ???? Ps I've tried loads of heads, many times, my maid thinks I'm nuts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Artisi said: Check to see if the heater has an internal flow restricting thingy, some heaters have such a thing so you can control thru' put. Will do, good idea Artisi ... Thanks SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 Well I've found a wider shower hose ....but in Australia ! https://watersavingshowers.com.au/products/cullector-high-flow-shower-hose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 "Large bore" hoses might help, just ordered a few from UK and Aus (Might even check Homepro later) !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 6 hours ago, SurinBeach said: Well I've found a wider shower hose ....but in Australia ! https://watersavingshowers.com.au/products/cullector-high-flow-shower-hose larger diameter hose over such a short length would achieve much of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 have you checked the pressure settings on the pump, it might well not be achieving the pressure it is supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Artisi said: larger diameter hose over such a short length would achieve much of anything. A restriction is a restriction. Length only increased friction. When you squeeze a garden hose the flow reduces. 13 hours ago, SurinBeach said: Re go up a size, so can I get a wider hose that fits the standard heater/shower head then ???? Just the one that connects the heater to the wall. Also have a look at the tap/faucet that connects the shower to the wall. Some local tap/faucets have a small orifice. My bad. Apologies you said you have Stiebel. The one I had was under the sink so had two steel wrapped flexible hoses. Edited December 28, 2017 by VocalNeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 28, 2017 Author Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Artisi said: larger diameter hose over such a short length would achieve much of anything. And the narrow brass bits at both ends dont make any difference then, as I said I dont really know but I'll find out in a few weeks when they arrive ! ie the Wide bore hose has wider brass bits both ends .... Edited December 28, 2017 by SurinBeach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 How is the water flow from the garden hose? Over 30l/min? Could there be a partial blockage anywhere in the system. Particularly on the suction side. How deep is the well? What shower head did you have before? how did that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybole Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 How is your mains water pressure ? In Nonghoy it can be difficult to take a shower when a large number of people are home at the weekend or at some times during the week and all using a lot of water at the same time. An expensive solution would be to put a 500l water tank above the ceiling, keep it full by pump and thus have a permanent head of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Maybole said: How is your mains water pressure ? He's pumping from a well. <deleted> is everyone on here dumb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 22 hours ago, Artisi said: have you checked the pressure settings on the pump, it might well not be achieving the pressure it is supposed to. Actually didnt know there where settings, but I'll start googling !!! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 On 27/12/2017 at 12:51 PM, VocalNeal said: There are a myriad of shower heads just look for one with many large orifices or one designed for vertical drop. Where is the shower? 2nd or 3rd floor? I have a WP205 pump and my shower is on the 3rd floor. It works well enough for me. I previously had a Stiebel under-sink heater. I'm going with the flexible hoses that the local plumber used to connect the heater. There is one on the inlet and one on the outlet. Go up a size. Mine fed a bath and a shower had no problem filling the bath or having a shower. Re the flexible hoses, and go up a size, you mean I can get wider hose sizes for same fittings ? I'll pop out shopping this morning and have a look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 19 hours ago, VocalNeal said: How is the water flow from the garden hose? Over 30l/min? Could there be a partial blockage anywhere in the system. Particularly on the suction side. How deep is the well? What shower head did you have before? how did that work? Just tested the Garden Hose (7.30am !) and 4-5 mossy bites ! 34seconds for a 18.9 litre bottle = 33.3 litres per minute I actually noticed the pump ran fully during filling via the garden hose. However if I run the kitchen tap or bathroom tap the pump runs for 5 seconds then turns off for 5 seconds If I run Kitchen and bathroom taps simultaneously the pump remains on constantly... Just FYI Well is maybe 10 meters deep with 6 meters of water. Had ALL sorts of shower heads, most probable over ten by now .... I am getting a pretty OK shower really, just want to improve wherever possible ! Cheers SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 42 minutes ago, SurinBeach said: Re the flexible hoses, and go up a size, you mean I can get wider hose sizes for same fittings ? I'll pop out shopping this morning and have a look... Just checked my bendy metal hoses in/out of the water heater and one is slimmer than the other, off to buy a wider hose now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 hours ago, SurinBeach said: Just tested the Garden Hose (7.30am !) and 4-5 mossy bites ! 555 Be careful the Aedes mosquito is the daytime one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, SurinBeach said: Just tested the Garden Hose (7.30am !) and 4-5 mossy bites ! 34seconds for a 18.9 litre bottle = 33.3 litres per minute I actually noticed the pump ran fully during filling via the garden hose. However if I run the kitchen tap or bathroom tap the pump runs for 5 seconds then turns off for 5 seconds If I run Kitchen and bathroom taps simultaneously the pump remains on constantly... Just FYI Well is maybe 10 meters deep with 6 meters of water. Had ALL sorts of shower heads, most probable over ten by now .... I am getting a pretty OK shower really, just want to improve wherever possible ! Cheers SB 3 hours ago, SurinBeach said: Just tested the Garden Hose (7.30am !) and 4-5 mossy bites ! 34seconds for a 18.9 litre bottle = 33.3 litres per minute I actually noticed the pump ran fully during filling via the garden hose. However if I run the kitchen tap or bathroom tap the pump runs for 5 seconds then turns off for 5 seconds If I run Kitchen and bathroom taps simultaneously the pump remains on constantly... Just FYI Well is maybe 10 meters deep with 6 meters of water. Had ALL sorts of shower heads, most probable over ten by now .... I am getting a pretty OK shower really, just want to improve wherever possible ! Cheers SB If the pump is switching on /off when running a single outlet, it means the demand is less than the available pump capability. As you are getting the same result with the bathroom or the kitchen, would suggest changing the hose in the bathroom is a waste of effort and time. For interest, how does the pump behave if you remove the shower head and then run the pump, how does it behave if you just allow free discharge from the outlet in the wall, no tap no hoses etc? Without getting into hydraulic calculations to calculate the total head loss across the pump, think we can assume the pressure loss and capacity for the system from pump inlet to the shower is what it is and you're stuck with it. Did you check if there is a flow control "valve" within the heater? Edited December 29, 2017 by Artisi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 3 hours ago, SurinBeach said: 34seconds for a 18.9 litre bottle = 33.3 litres per minute I have the same pump as you. I just tested mine using a hose. Very roughly 30 and 31 litres/min. So one can maybe deduce your pump is OK. I' don't have the 2m head loss you do from your well and my hose bib is at 1.5m so maybe a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerjo Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Is this power shower with twin impellor pump and tank set up available in Thailand.http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/powershower.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 (edited) Just roaming! The restriction may actually be in the heater itself? i could not find the actual rated flow rate. http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/sites/default/files/pdf/sizing-guide-dhc-e.pdf It says abuty 1.5 gpm for a shower? That's only about 6 l/m. I had a laugh at the incoming water temp. In a previous life my incoming water was about 34-35 Fahrenheit. All year Edited December 29, 2017 by VocalNeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 7 hours ago, Artisi said: If the pump is switching on /off when running a single outlet, it means the demand is less than the available pump capability. As you are getting the same result with the bathroom or the kitchen, would suggest changing the hose in the bathroom is a waste of effort and time. For interest, how does the pump behave if you remove the shower head and then run the pump, how does it behave if you just allow free discharge from the outlet in the wall, no tap no hoses etc? Without getting into hydraulic calculations to calculate the total head loss across the pump, think we can assume the pressure loss and capacity for the system from pump inlet to the shower is what it is and you're stuck with it. Did you check if there is a flow control "valve" within the heater? Good idea ARTISI, I'll start to dial down on where the flow reductions occur (if that is the correct terminology!!!!) Haven't checked the flow control on heater, went out shopping for WIDE hoses then got drunk down the beach (Phuket) Ps No wide hoses for heater and all the shower hoses (circa 50-100) had SMALL brass connectors .... Night Gents and many tahnks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurinBeach Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 6 hours ago, VocalNeal said: I have the same pump as you. I just tested mine using a hose. Very roughly 30 and 31 litres/min. So one can maybe deduce your pump is OK. I' don't have the 2m head loss you do from your well and my hose bib is at 1.5m so maybe a wash. Sorry VocalNeal but .....Ps real sorry but what does that mean ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) Means your pump is operating more of less the same as mine. So normally. 15 hours ago, SurinBeach said: went out shopping for WIDE hoses then got drunk down the beach (Phuket) Well a result of some kind. drink beer in the shower? Edited December 30, 2017 by VocalNeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 20 hours ago, SurinBeach said: Good idea ARTISI, I'll start to dial down on where the flow reductions occur (if that is the correct terminology!!!!) Haven't checked the flow control on heater, went out shopping for WIDE hoses then got drunk down the beach (Phuket) Ps No wide hoses for heater and all the shower hoses (circa 50-100) had SMALL brass connectors .... Night Gents and many tahnks Of course, hoses fitting usually are fitted to an appropriate size hose. Cannot understand the continual comments re (wide) increased diameter hoses, the hose and fittings are not the problem - if you look at VocalNeal's post #25 it more than likely explains your entire problem. Have you bothered to check the flow rate from the shower head with you bucket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Artisi said: Of course, hoses fitting usually are fitted to an appropriate size hose. But of course you can put 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 hose on a 1/4 fitting? Just the hole in the fitting will be small as the 1/4 hose has roughly a 6mm hole but the fitting only 4.8mm If you put 1/4 hose on a 3/8 fitting with a 7mm orifice the 1/4 hose becomes the restriction. One should look at any orifice or restriction in the heater and size the piping /tubing accordingly. Some local 1/4 turn ball valves also have a quite small orifice relative to the size of the valve. Keep going every little counts and will add to the sense of a job well done. But as has been said the restriction could be in the heater itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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