Anyone know where I can purchase cans of Propane?

[cyborgx]

 Yes Propane, NOT Butane (which can be found easily). 16oz cans would be great. I want it to use with a welding torch from the US.

 

Thanks if you can help.

[Crossy]

Does this have to fit on the torch like this one (which I've never seen here).

 

 

Or is there a hose?

 

If you have a hose regular cooking gas is propane and "barbecue" sized tanks are available and portable.

 

 

[cyborgx]

57 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Does this have to fit on the torch like this one (which I've never seen here).

 

 

Or is there a hose?

 

If you have a hose regular cooking gas is propane and "barbecue" sized tanks are available and portable.

 

 

You could use a hose I  suppose, but yes, I want to connect to a can like the one in the Pic. Actually, coincidentally it's a Bernzomatic TS8000 :)

 

[cyborgx]

I asked in a couple of shops and got a similar response to what you say, but they didn't even know what the gas they were selling was, just sold it as "cooking gas". I tried reading the tanks, but even they didn't seem to have any indication of what type of gas it was!  I read a lot of the Thai, but some of it was too small for my poor eyesight.....

[cyborgx]

I'm sure it will probably work ok with Butane, but I'm waiting to hear from the manufacturer before I try it....  I have another torch that I use with Butane, but the TS8000 only mentions Propane and another gas as useable with it, no mention of Butane.

[toolpush]

15 hours ago, Crossy said:

Does this have to fit on the torch like this one (which I've never seen here).

 

 

Or is there a hose?

 

If you have a hose regular cooking gas is propane and "barbecue" sized tanks are available and portable.

 

 

Actually regular cooking gas here in Thailand is mostly butane. It burns much hotter than propane. That is why imported aluminum bodied barbeques tend to melt when hooked to regular cooking gas.

[Dazinoz]

25 minutes ago, toolpush said:

Actually regular cooking gas here in Thailand is mostly butane. It burns much hotter than propane. That is why imported aluminum bodied barbeques tend to melt when hooked to regular cooking gas.

Not really. 

[DGS1244]

The LPG sold in Thailand is Butane which has a lower combustible rating than Propane therefore burns at a lower temperature. Pure propane very difficult to obtain here.

[Crossy]

This is all interesting stuff. 

 

I had assumed (dangerous I know) that the Thai cooking gas was (at least largely) propane due to it having the propane type screw connector (male left hand thread on the regulator) and using propane type regulators.

 

Like this:-

 

Also our local gas man has small cylinders with a different fitting which (he says) are butane. They have a male fitting on the bottle, probably for this type of regulator (which also has a left-hand thread IIRC):-

EDIT I found this here http://www.pttplc.com/en/media-center/energy-knowledge/documents/gas_en1.pdf

 

Quote

Cooking gas has a commercial name as liquefied petroleum gas or LPG which is a product from the oil refineries or the gas separation plants. LPG is a mixture of two hydrocarbon gases: propane and butane. It can be in any ratio or purely propane or butane. In Thailand, most LPG comes from the gas separation plants which have a ratio of propane and butane of 70:30. As the gas provides high heating value, the user can thus save the time and energy cost.

My bold.

[Dazinoz]

32 minutes ago, DGS1244 said:

The LPG sold in Thailand is Butane which has a lower combustible rating than Propane therefore burns at a lower temperature. Pure propane very difficult to obtain here.

Actually they burn very much same temp. See chart I previously posted. 

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Actually they burn very much same temp. See chart I previously posted. 

And according to PTT Thai cooking gas (LPG) is 70/30 propane/butane, see my edit above.

[Dazinoz]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

And according to PTT Thai cooking gas (LPG) is 70/30 propane/butane, see my edit above.

Sorry but missing your point. 

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Sorry but missing your point. 

Stupid ruddy forum software quoted you. Even I can't drive it properly.

 

I just wanted to stress that the LPG isn't butane (or pure propane).

 

I reckon our OP's torch will be fine on cooking gas if he can sort a suitable adaptor.

 

[Dazinoz]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Stupid ruddy forum software quoted you. Even I can't drive it properly.

 

I just wanted to stress that the LPG isn't butane (or pure propane).

 

Ok no problem. 

 

I worked st a Caltex oil refinery in Australia for 23 years. We sold pure Propane and pure butane in bulk. We we also selling a mix in bulk I think for use in cars. Can't remember blend ration or the name. 

 

Others companies down the line probably did mixes. 

[Bruce404]

A few months ago, I searched similarly in Chiang Mai for the thick-walled, high-pressure propane or MAPP tanks (as illustrated with your Bernzomatic image example) and compatible torch nozzles -- without success at all the big-box stores (HomePro, Global House) and specialty hardware vendors (e.g., the big one -- name forgotten -- at the southeast corner of the major intersection of Superhighway 11 and Chang Puak Road [highway 107]).

 

But I noticed quite a few stocked the thin-walled aerosol-style cans containing butane, commonly used for cooking burners, and about the same size and shape as insecticide and other aerosol sprays.   But nobody seemed to have a torch attachment to go with it to function as a soldering/brazing gun. 

 

Finally, I got the idea to try the Amazon-style Lazada online store to discover it offers a huge variety of items that are hard to find.  Lo and behold, it had a number of butane torches designed to mate with the fittings on the widely-available butane cans:

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/real-cook-kitchen-butane-flame-burnertorch-34698119.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.9.622c1e14uo1CGP

 

I bought it and it arrived promptly with free shipping, and worked great to solder some welding clamps to their 2-guage (24 mm²) welding/battery-jumper cables. 

 

So unless you need the higher MAPP temperatures (see chart previously posted), the butane should work fine for most purposes.  Of course, these thin-walled butane cans don't seem as strong and as safe as the thick-walled propane tanks commonly available in the USA and probably elsewhere.

 

PS.  In the USA, at least, one can easily find torch heads that attach directly to the propane or MAPP tank, as well as those with several feet of gas tubing to allow the tank to sit on a bench or attached to one's belt.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Bruce404
PS.

[Dazinoz]

13 minutes ago, Bruce404 said:

A few months ago, I searched similarly in Chiang Mai for the thick-walled, high-pressure propane or MAPP tanks (as illustrated with your Bernzomatic image example) and compatible torch nozzles -- without success at all the big-box stores (HomePro, Global House) and specialty hardware vendors (e.g., the big one -- name forgotten -- at the southeast corner of the major intersection of Superhighway 11 and Chang Puak Road [highway 107]).

 

But I noticed quite a few stocked the thin-walled aerosol-style cans containing butane, commonly used for cooking burners, and about the same size and shape as insecticide and other aerosol sprays.   But nobody seemed to have a torch attachment to go with it to function as a soldering/brazing gun. 

 

Finally, I got the idea to try the Amazon-style Lazada online store to discover it offers a huge variety of items that are hard to find.  Lo and behold, it had a number of butane torches designed to mate with the fittings on the widely-available butane cans:

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/real-cook-kitchen-butane-flame-burnertorch-34698119.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.9.622c1e14uo1CGP

 

I bought it and it arrived promptly with free shipping, and worked great to solder some welding clamps to their 2-guage (24 mm²) welding/battery-jumper cables. 

 

So unless you need the higher MAPP temperatures (see chart previously posted), the butane should work fine for most purposes.  Of course, these thin-walled butane cans don't seem as strong and as safe as the thick-walled propane tanks commonly available in the USA and probably elsewhere.

 

PS.  In the USA, at least, one can easily find torch heads that attach directly to the propane or MAPP tank, as well as those with several feet of gas tubing to allow the tank to sit on a bench or attached to one's belt.

Even though they burn at the same temp there is a big difference between the vapour pressures of butane and propane. 

 

At 70f (21.1C) the vapour pressure of propane is 110psi while, at the same temp, butane is only 17 psi, hence the thicker walled propane cylinders. A mixture of the gasses results in lower than propane and higher than butane pressures. 

[cyborgx]

This is all great info, thanks people....

 

I have a Butane torch that uses the local cans, and have been using it for ages... think I bought it from the states but cannot recall.

 

My new torch is on the other hand threaded, and cannot use the Butane cans even if I wanted to...

 

I've asked the manufacturer, and they have said "unfortunately, butane would not work with the TS8000 as the pressure is not high enough". That seems a little strange to me, since my Butane torch works fine, with the pressure it's under.....

 

My options seem to be...:-

1) buy a small heavy tank of LPG which hopefully has a hose and thread head that I can buy with it that fits to the torch.

2) try to find some kind of adapter from the Butane cans to the thread on the torch....

 

Any suggestions?  

What's the standard fitting on a hose from the LPG tanks?

And also back to the initial question, where is a decent supplier in BKK that actually knows his stuff, and knows what he's selling?

Edited December 29, 2017 by cyborgx

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, cyborgx said:

1) buy a small heavy tank of LPG which hopefully has a hose and thread head that I can buy with it that fits to the torch.

Have a word with the manufacturer of your torch, they may be able to help with a hose/adaptor.

 

OR

 

Maybe, if you have an empty canister that fits the torch a local machine shop could knock up an adaptor so you could fill the canister from a cooking gas bottle (you'll need to invert the cooking gas bottle to get liquid out of it).

 

OR

 

Ditch the whole idea, I've seen propane/air (and even oxy-propane) torches in various outlets here. Could actually be the easiest/cheapest option.

 

I have one of the cheapo butane torches that fit the baby cans of butane, works great for soldering and starting the barbie.

 

[mikecha]

home pro have torch and gas for soldering 

[Thongkorn]

Propain is 120 pound per square inch pressure, Butane is 10. pressure may be some thing to do with it, both burn similar  heat temp.

[Foexie]

@ cyborgx,

 

did you try to search it on google?

 

I searched for โพรเพนถัง (propanetank) and the first page i found was this:

 

http://www.uniquegas.co.th/product.php

 

Don't know where you live but you can search for distributors on that page too. Hope it helps you.

 

Regards,

[Damrongsak]

Pressure with pure propane varies with temperature. On a hot day in the sun, a tank could get to 120-130 degrees F in some places.  Or about 230-250 PSI.  I've reused old LPG tanks in the U.S, as portable air tanks.  (Also one monster potato cannon with a 10 foot long barrel.)  I believe they are rated at a working pressure somewhere on the order of 200-250 PSI. 

 

http://virtualmark.net/wx/pressure.htm

[Thongkorn]

15 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Pressure with pure propane varies with temperature. On a hot day in the sun, a tank could get to 120-130 degrees F in some places.  Or about 230-250 PSI.  I've reused old LPG tanks in the U.S, as portable air tanks.  (Also one monster potato cannon with a 10 foot long barrel.)  I believe they are rated at a working pressure somewhere on the order of 200-250 PSI. 

 

http://virtualmark.net/wx/pressure.htm

, The liquid expands with heat,   If there  is not sufficient ullage, then you have a problem, Most tanks and containers should only be filled to 83%, The actual pressure compresses the liquid into a Gas.

[Dazinoz]

19 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

a

 

20 minutes ago, Thongkorn said:

The actual pressure compresses the liquid into a Gas

You can not compress a liquid you can only compress a gas. Liquid LPG is pumped (not compressed) into the cylinder. As you say only to the cylinder should only be filled to around the 80% mark. This allows the liquid to vaporise. As you mention the pressure exerted inside the cylinder is dependant in the temperature. Propane boils (turns to a gas at about -42C). 

 

Another reason to only fill tank to 80% is the expansion volume of LPG. Can't remember the exact expansion from work but it's around 256 times. In other words 1 litre of liquid released at atmospheric pressure will produce 256 litres gas. An lpg appliance designed to handle a specific volume of lpg gas can not handle the expansion rate if liquid lpg enters it and hence explosions. 

[blackcab]

I'm getting quite an education here.

 

My word of the day is "ullage".

[Thongkorn]

On 12/30/2017 at 12:00 PM, Dazinoz said:

 

You can not compress a liquid you can only compress a gas. Liquid LPG is pumped (not compressed) into the cylinder. As you say only to the cylinder should only be filled to around the 80% mark. This allows the liquid to vaporise. As you mention the pressure exerted inside the cylinder is dependant in the temperature. Propane boils (turns to a gas at about -42C). 

 

Another reason to only fill tank to 80% is the expansion volume of LPG. Can't remember the exact expansion from work but it's around 256 times. In other words 1 litre of liquid released at atmospheric pressure will produce 256 litres gas. An lpg appliance designed to handle a specific volume of lpg gas can not handle the expansion rate if liquid lpg enters it and hence explosions. 

Having worked in the LPG industry for years i know nothing.

[Dazinoz]

8 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

Having worked in the LPG industry for years i know nothing.

I worked in an oil refinery 23 years. 

 

Are you saying you can compress a liquid?

[mikecha]

 big c now selling cans and burners saw yesterday promotion 

[mikecha]

On ‎1‎-‎1‎-‎2018 at 2:16 AM, Dazinoz said:

I worked in an oil refinery 23 years. 

 

Are you saying you can compress a liquid?

only 23 years 

[Bang Bang]

On 12/30/2017 at 6:26 PM, Thongkorn said:

The actual pressure compresses the liquid into a Gas.

I am in IT, as far from this topic academically as can be, but my distant memories of high school science and the frightening old codger who taught it tells me this is backward.

 

Gas is converted to liquid by cooling and compression.

Edited January 4, 2018 by Bang Bang