proof of residence for British passport renewal

[aright]

58 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

What about the far higher (in majority terms) percentage of Scots who voted to remain in the EU? Should they be ignored?

 

The 'SNP Bans the Union Flag' story has been splashed across most papers today. Of course, the 'journalists' who copy and paste the press releases they receive from the Tories probably knew it was a lie and that there is no change in the policy of flying the Union Flag as per protocol before they submitted their pieces. Why they chose to use it now? I suspect that they have a calendar of press releases all lined up for the coming months, daily decrying the SNP for various things that never actually happened. I can only assume that they are becoming increasingly alarmed by the realisation of more and more Scots that they would be better served out of the union. 

You shouldn't conflate the Scottish and the UK  EU  referendums. The Scottish referendum was confined to Scotland and the result was binding on the Scottish Parliament; the EU referendum was  UK wide and the result binding on Westminster.

I think I agree, flag waving is a red flag non issue. I think the danger for the SNP is they are increasingly seen as a party with a single issue....independence...which contributed to their poor performance at the last election. They will continue in a downward spiral if they don't address the more important issues for the electorate, health, education and the economy which adds to their problems because they have a poor record on these subjects. 

As for the realisation of more and more Scots that they would be better served out of the union .At the last Election the SNP vote dropped from 53% to 37%  which meant 63% of the Scottish electorate didn't vote for them. That doesn't sound much like a ground swell to me.  

 

[RuamRudy]

14 hours ago, aright said:

You shouldn't conflate the Scottish and the UK  EU  referendums. The Scottish referendum was confined to Scotland and the result was binding on the Scottish Parliament; the EU referendum was  UK wide and the result binding on Westminster.

I think I agree, flag waving is a red flag non issue. I think the danger for the SNP is they are increasingly seen as a party with a single issue....independence...which contributed to their poor performance at the last election. They will continue in a downward spiral if they don't address the more important issues for the electorate, health, education and the economy which adds to their problems because they have a poor record on these subjects. 

As for the realisation of more and more Scots that they would be better served out of the union .At the last Election the SNP vote dropped from 53% to 37%  which meant 63% of the Scottish electorate didn't vote for them. That doesn't sound much like a ground swell to me.  

 

Again, you are letting the media spin drive your understanding. As you say, the flag issue was a deliberate attempt to smear the SG - why else would every mainstream newspaper run with the same headline? It is a clear attempt to sow seeds of discontent amongst soft NO voters or undecideds. If you took the time to read about the SNP from a non partisan perspective, you would see that they are the opposite of what you claim. It is the opposition that is obsessed with independence and screams about it daily.

 

Their performance at the last UK election was, indeed, disappointing compared to 2015 but do you really think that any party could have maintained 95% of the MPs in the country? As it stands, they still have a majority of Scottish MPs and a near majority in Holyrood, where the electoral system was devised to prevent any single party being able to come close to a majority.

 

As for their peformance in government - can you be more specific? Health, for example - why do you rate their performance as poor? There is no end of complaint by medical professionals about the English NHS but do you see the same complaints about Scotland? And certainly performance figures sho Scottish targets being met. 

 

Education - again, there is a media narrative being spun that is trying to decry the Scottish education system, and while there are improvements to be made,  what specifically makes you think that their performance is poor?

 

The economy - well, with so many of the levers of the economy reserved to Westminster, it is a bit unfair to point at the SG and claim it is bad without acknowledging the fact that one arm is tied behind it's back.

 

What you are failing to recognise, however, is that while the SNP is perceived as being the face of independence, the movement is far more diverse, There are Scots Tories for Independence, Labour for Independence, probably even Marxists for Independence and SNF for Independence. By the same token, there are SNP remainers and SNP brexiters - but the 2017 election was not about independence in any way shape or form. That is why you saw voters turning away from the SNP. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily turning away from independence, just as a vote for independence in the coming indyref2 cannot be construed as a vote for the SNP.

 

[aright]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Again, you are letting the media spin drive your understanding. As you say, the flag issue was a deliberate attempt to smear the SG - why else would every mainstream newspaper run with the same headline? It is a clear attempt to sow seeds of discontent amongst soft NO voters or undecideds. If you took the time to read about the SNP from a non partisan perspective, you would see that they are the opposite of what you claim. It is the opposition that is obsessed with independence and screams about it daily.

 

Their performance at the last UK election was, indeed, disappointing compared to 2015 but do you really think that any party could have maintained 95% of the MPs in the country? As it stands, they still have a majority of Scottish MPs and a near majority in Holyrood, where the electoral system was devised to prevent any single party being able to come close to a majority.

 

As for their peformance in government - can you be more specific? Health, for example - why do you rate their performance as poor? There is no end of complaint by medical professionals about the English NHS but do you see the same complaints about Scotland? And certainly performance figures sho Scottish targets being met. 

 

Education - again, there is a media narrative being spun that is trying to decry the Scottish education system, and while there are improvements to be made,  what specifically makes you think that their performance is poor?

 

The economy - well, with so many of the levers of the economy reserved to Westminster, it is a bit unfair to point at the SG and claim it is bad without acknowledging the fact that one arm is tied behind it's back.

 

What you are failing to recognise, however, is that while the SNP is perceived as being the face of independence, the movement is far more diverse, There are Scots Tories for Independence, Labour for Independence, probably even Marxists for Independence and SNF for Independence. By the same token, there are SNP remainers and SNP brexiters - but the 2017 election was not about independence in any way shape or form. That is why you saw voters turning away from the SNP. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily turning away from independence, just as a vote for independence in the coming indyref2 cannot be construed as a vote for the SNP.

 

I don't understand why you feel my perspective is less valid than yours. My opinions are as a result of my innate common sense, the media, and the opinions of Scottish and non Scottish friends as I am sure yours are. If you say you have a direct line into Holyrood I will acquiesce but failing that I will regard us both as being equally gullible which reminds me......

 

 

The questions on the economy we have covered before. As for your questions on  health (performance figures being met) and education you obviously missed this which I posted on a Brexit topic.

 

"Do not expect the SNP to apologise for these failings anytime soon. They do not really need to, so successful have they have been in creating a new paradigm in Scottish politics."

 

"The SNP has ruled in Holyrood for nine years, and had a majority for the last five. Yet the SNP’s record, particularly for the most disadvantaged in society whom it claims to speak for, is dire."

 

"The Scottish Survey of Literacy and Numeracy shows standards of reading, writing and numeracy for 13-14-year-olds all declining since 2011"

 

"Patients are 8 per cent more likely to have to wait over 18 weeks for psychological therapy based treatment than in England. Since July 2014, NHS Scotland has also repeatedly missed its targets on children’s mental health." .

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/its-time-snps-terrible-record-government-was-exposed

 

If what you say about the strength of the Independence view is across all parties why didn't Nicola go for the referendum. She has 37% in the bag ....all she needs is 14% to get to the magic 51% at which point I am sure that because it was so close you would insist on another referendum.

[aright]

16 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

As for their peformance in government - can you be more specific? Health, for example - why do you rate their performance as poor? There is no end of complaint by medical professionals about the English NHS but do you see the same complaints about Scotland? And certainly performance figures sho Scottish targets being met. 

 

Education - again, there is a media narrative being spun that is trying to decry the Scottish education system, and while there are improvements to be made,  what specifically makes you think that their performance is poor?

 

The economy - well, with so many of the levers of the economy reserved to Westminster, it is a bit unfair to point at the SG and claim it is bad without acknowledging the fact that one arm is tied behind it's back.

 

The flags business, said Ruth Davidson, was “dismal stuff”. The Scottish Government “should be more concerned with raising standards, not lowering flags”. And so indeed they should. GDP growth in the UK was 1.7 per cent in the last year but only 0.6 per cent in Scotland – which Ms Sturgeon blames on Brexit. Educational results are in worrying decline, with Scotland’s PISA ranking against 34 other advanced nations way down in the last decade – from 10th to 19th in science; 11th to 23rd in reading; and 11th to 24th in maths. The number of people waiting longer than the targeted time for treatment to begin is at its highest since 2011.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/24/nicola-sturgeon-flagging-failings/

 

 

[RuamRudy]

11 hours ago, aright said:

I don't understand why you feel my perspective is less valid than yours. My opinions are as a result of my innate common sense, the media, and the opinions of Scottish and non Scottish friends as I am sure yours are. If you say you have a direct line into Holyrood I will acquiesce but failing that I will regard us both as being equally gullible which reminds me......

 

 

The questions on the economy we have covered before. As for your questions on  health (performance figures being met) and education you obviously missed this which I posted on a Brexit topic.

 

"Do not expect the SNP to apologise for these failings anytime soon. They do not really need to, so successful have they have been in creating a new paradigm in Scottish politics."

 

"The SNP has ruled in Holyrood for nine years, and had a majority for the last five. Yet the SNP’s record, particularly for the most disadvantaged in society whom it claims to speak for, is dire."

 

"The Scottish Survey of Literacy and Numeracy shows standards of reading, writing and numeracy for 13-14-year-olds all declining since 2011"

 

"Patients are 8 per cent more likely to have to wait over 18 weeks for psychological therapy based treatment than in England. Since July 2014, NHS Scotland has also repeatedly missed its targets on children’s mental health." .

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/05/its-time-snps-terrible-record-government-was-exposed

 

If what you say about the strength of the Independence view is across all parties why didn't Nicola go for the referendum. She has 37% in the bag ....all she needs is 14% to get to the magic 51% at which point I am sure that because it was so close you would insist on another referendum.

I am not sure what you mean by 'valid'. Politics, like perspectives, are, to a large extent, subjective. I am not sure that I implied your subejective take was any less worthy of being held than mine, but I do believe that yours is no less tainted with bias than mine.

 

I clearly did miss your comment on Scotland's economy in one of the many Brexit posts. Would you care to reprise as I have no desire to wade through pages and pages of the same arguments repeated ad nauseum to find one post.

 

It is interesting that you post an article from the New Statesman attacking the SNP. The New Statesman, which is labour's attempt at mainstream critical thinking, knows that without Scotland, the Labour Party is never again going to achieve electoral success in rUK. Labour also know that - which is why we have Richard Leonard repeatedly making bare faced lies to the public, such as claiming that SLAB will renationalise Scottish Water, a PUBLICLY OWNED company that was never sold off - the SNP government made sure of that. (By the way, did you know that in GE17, for key marginal seats that Labour knew they had no chance of winning, they were encouraging their supporters to vote Tory?).

 

It is easy to cherry pick examples of disappointing performance from within a panoply of factors. While I don't want to dismiss valid areas of concern, both realism and balance need to be brought into the picture. Budgets are fixed (there is no such thing as a Scottish budget deficit, despite what is repeated claimed) and demands continue to rise. But we have more school leavers going on to higher education than any of the other home nations, we have lower youth unemployment than any other area of the UK, our hospitals are perfoming head and shoulders above ENHS. So, by all means crow about the chaff amongst the wheat, but doing so does not lend your argument credence.

 

Why did she not call for a second referendum? I have no idea - I am not a member of the SNP nor am I privy to their inner thinking. Let's be realistic though - if she took another punt and that, too, was rejected, then independence would be off the table for my lifetime. Maybe they realised that to say Westminster was making a pig's ear of Brexit was an insult to pigs, and therefore they decided to wait a bit longer - give TM enough rope etc. As the Labour party seems to be in every bit as much turmoil as the Tories over Brexit, possibly they thought it best to let them both destroy themselves from the inside before she presented the case for independence once more?

 

[RuamRudy]

8 hours ago, aright said:

The flags business, said Ruth Davidson, was “dismal stuff”. The Scottish Government “should be more concerned with raising standards, not lowering flags”. And so indeed they should. GDP growth in the UK was 1.7 per cent in the last year but only 0.6 per cent in Scotland – which Ms Sturgeon blames on Brexit. Educational results are in worrying decline, with Scotland’s PISA ranking against 34 other advanced nations way down in the last decade – from 10th to 19th in science; 11th to 23rd in reading; and 11th to 24th in maths. The number of people waiting longer than the targeted time for treatment to begin is at its highest since 2011.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/24/nicola-sturgeon-flagging-failings/

 

 

Dismal stuff indeed - in fact, it is something we should all be outraged about. This was a story that was circulated in the press by someone, with the aim of discrediting the Scottish government. The Scottish Tories leapt upon it with vigour, as did their lackeys in the unionist media, despite the fact that there was no change whatsoever in policy since 2010, when Alex Salmond had a meeting with the queen and they agreed upon a protocol that continues to be enacted.

 

But this is par for the course in Scotland. A couple of weeks ago, Sarah Smith (BBC Scottish politial editor and daughter of the late John Smith) reported on prime time news that in the previous month 100,000 patients in Scottish hospitals waited more than 4 hours to be attended to. This was actually the number of people who attended hospital in total. The actual number who waited longer than 4 hours was, if memory serves me correctly, around 1,500. In fact, fewer people waited 4 hours or more in Scotland in the whole of 2017 than did in December in Welsh hospitals. But the media likes to lie and then fails to retract - just run of the mill stuff up north.

 

Edit:

 

But again, the only argument delivered is not that independence is the wrong way to go - it is that the SNP is represented as failing (which, as I contest, is highly arguable). I remember many years ago the SNP had a slogan, 'Vote for us and we'll resign'.

 

If the only argument against independence is the competence of the SNP then we vote them out at the first Scottish general election. 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by RuamRudy

[Laughing Gravy]

19 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why did she not call for a second referendum? I have no idea - I am not a member of the SNP nor am I privy to their inner thinking. Let's be realistic though - if she took another punt and that, too, was rejected, then independence would be off the table for my lifetime.

Alex Salmonds the then leader of the SNP said the same thing that the referendum was once in a lifetime. He soon changed his mind when it didn't go his way. Just saying.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Alex Salmonds the then leader of the SNP said the same thing that the referendum was once in a lifetime. He soon changed his mind when it didn't go his way. Just saying.

Why is that relevant to me? I am not in the SNP and I am not represented by Salmond so his words are meaningless with regards to my aspirations for Scottish independence.

[Laughing Gravy]

30 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Why is that relevant to me? I am not in the SNP and I am not represented by Salmond so his words are meaningless with regards to my aspirations for Scottish independence.

Well if you don't know why it is relevant. especially what you stated in your posts then what's the point.  I was pointing out a fact.

[aright]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

But this is par for the course in Scotland. A couple of weeks ago, Sarah Smith (BBC Scottish politial editor and daughter of the late John Smith) reported on prime time news that in the previous month 100,000 patients in Scottish hospitals waited more than 4 hours to be attended to. This was actually the number of people who attended hospital in total. The actual number who waited longer than 4 hours was, if memory serves me correctly, around 1,500. In fact, fewer people waited 4 hours or more in Scotland in the whole of 2017 than did in December in Welsh hospitals. But the media likes to lie and then fails to retract - just run of the mill stuff up north.

 

 

 

 

sarah smith@BBCsarahsmith

This week I made a factual error in a report on the BBC 6 o’clock news. For which I apologise. I mistakenly used the annual figure for A&E waiting times in Scotland instead of the weekly one. As soon as I realised my error I changed the report for all subsequent broadcasts..

3:35 am - 12 Jan 2018

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, aright said:

 

sarah smith@BBCsarahsmith

This week I made a factual error in a report on the BBC 6 o’clock news. For which I apologise. I mistakenly used the annual figure for A&E waiting times in Scotland instead of the weekly one. As soon as I realised my error I changed the report for all subsequent broadcasts..

3:35 am - 12 Jan 2018

Exactly - all day the smear story is headline news on prime time BBC, beamed into every home in the country; the retraction came several days later and was confined to her twitter account. Do you really think that that retraction was sufficient to correct the original lie? I say lie because to suggest that the political editor made such a ridiculously rookie error would be to do her a bigger disservice. 

 

Similarly, after giant front page splashes across the Telegraph and the Mail etc about flags yesterday, today the Mail posts a small retraction at the bottom of page 2. No problem, the seed of distrust in the SNP has already been sown. Their work has been done for the week.

[aright]

[Khun Han]

16 hours ago, aright said:

The flags business, said Ruth Davidson, was “dismal stuff”. The Scottish Government “should be more concerned with raising standards, not lowering flags”. And so indeed they should. GDP growth in the UK was 1.7 per cent in the last year but only 0.6 per cent in Scotland – which Ms Sturgeon blames on Brexit. Educational results are in worrying decline, with Scotland’s PISA ranking against 34 other advanced nations way down in the last decade – from 10th to 19th in science; 11th to 23rd in reading; and 11th to 24th in maths. The number of people waiting longer than the targeted time for treatment to begin is at its highest since 2011.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/24/nicola-sturgeon-flagging-failings/

 

 

 

1.8% actually. The fourth quarter figure has just been announced as 0.5%, up from the estimated 0.4%.