Experience Obtaining Khor Ror 22 - Banglamung (March 18)

[Chomper Higgot]

My wife and I have just obtained our Khor Ror 22 at Banglamung I'm sharing this experience as it may help others. 

 

Salient Points:

My wife and I were married 14 years ago in Signapore, the passport I was using at the time (and recorded in our Signapore Marriage Certificate) has expired.

 

• Prior to applying for our Khor Ror 22 my wife and I called at the Banglamumg Amphur Office to inquire as to what documents were required, the surprise for me was that they wanted:
  • a 'Certified True Copy of my passport'  
  • a 'Certified True Copy of our Marriage Certificate'
• Because, as explained above, our marriage certificate records my previous and now expired passport, I thought it best to obtain Certified True copies of both my old and existing passport.

 

I have explained how I obtained these documents in my other post "Experience Certifying Translations at MoFA (March18)".

• Also required was the originals to each of these documents and the original of my wife's Thai ID Card. 

 

• We both had to attend at the Amphur Office to receive our Khor Ror 22.

 

• We arrived at the office at 9:00am and took a queue ticket, we were only kept waiting 20 minutes.
• We presented the clerk with:
  • Certified Translation of our Marriage Certificate (Ministry of Foreign Affairs stamps etc)
  • Certified Translation of of my existing passport (Ministry of Foreign Affairs stamps etc)
• The Clerk spotted my passport number had changed and asked if I had my old passport with me, I handed this to the Clerk (I did not handover the certified true copy which I kept in my document bag). ***
• The Clerk then instructed that my wife and I should make copies of all the documents we had handed over, (Photocopies available in a side office).
• The Clerk then directed us to the office supervisor who asked to see the receipt from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the Certification of the documents we had presented Because we don't throw any documents away we had the receipt, but before admitting we did I asked what if we don't have it 'you'll have to go back to the MoFA' was the response. I went looking for the receipt in the car (actually went and made a photo copy of the receipt that was in my document bag). Handed the receipt to the Clerk and she then processed our request.
• Half a dozen signatures later we left having paid Bht200 for two Khor Ror 22s (One each).
• Please also note, all the 'Certified Translations' were also returned, including the original copy of the receipt for these documents.

 

Total time for this process 2 hours - but I think it could have been a lot longer if there had been a bigger queue (a rain storm had thinned things out a bit).

 

My advice; allow a full day for this activity and arrive early - a very rainy morning seems like a good plan.

 

*** About handing over documents to officials: As a general rule I only ever handover the exact document that has been requested. So while I read TVF and take advice from every quarter on what documents I might need (and prepare all these documents), I only present the documents the 'official' requests, keeping everything else in reserve. If we then get into a situation that the official starts requesting extras, I can drip feed his/her requests. Far better I think than showing them everything, including what you don't have.

 

[Lamkyong]

drip feed  my way also unless obvious docs required  do the same at immigration  (yearly extension)

[riclag]

• a 'Certified True Copy of my passport'  
• a 'Certified True Copy of our Marriage Certificate'

What is the difference between a copy of one's passport and marriage certificate vs a certified true copy?

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, riclag said:

• a 'Certified True Copy of my passport'  
• a 'Certified True Copy of our Marriage Certificate'

What is the difference between a copy of one's passport and marriage certificate vs a certified true copy?

A copy may simply be a copy you made yourself.

 

A certified true copy, in the context of applying for visas, registration of marriage etc in Thailand is a copy that has been certified a true copy by your embassy or the embassy of the nation that issued the original document. 

These documents carry the embassy notary seal and signature and are, when translated at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs accepted by the Thai authorities. 

[riclag]

6 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A copy may simply be a copy you made yourself.

 

A certified true copy, in the context of applying for visas, registration of marriage etc in Thailand is a copy that has been certified a true copy by your embassy or the embassy of the nation that issued the original document. 

These documents carry the embassy notary seal and signature and are, when translated at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs accepted by the Thai authorities. 

So a person needs to get several originals of each original.What your saying is a true copy,  can't be a photo copy from a machine,it must be a duplicate of the original .

[dotpoom]

It would have been helpful for those of us who are not that well informed, if you had given a brief outline what a khor ror 22 is?

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, dotpoom said:

It would have been helpful for those of us who are not that well informed, if you had given a brief outline what a khor ror 22 is?

It is document to prove a foreign marriage was registered at an Amphoe.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, riclag said:

So a person needs to get several originals of each original.What your saying is a true copy,  can't be a photo copy from a machine,it must be a duplicate of the original .

 

Not quite:

 

"A Certified True Copy" is exactly what the name says it is. 

The point is, to use copies of passports, birth certificates, marriage certificates etc to apply for some forms of registration with the Thai Government (registration of a foreign marriage, application for a visa etc) then the Thai government regulations require a 'Certified True Copy'.

 

You cannot 'self certify' copies you make. The certification has to be done by your embassy or by the embassy of the nation that issued the document. 

 

In my case I had to get 'Certified True Copies' of my passport(s) from the US Consular Services at the US Embassy in Bangkok. The Consular Service Office, made copies of my passports and then certified these as true copies. 

 

Conversely, to obtain certified copies of our marriage certificate from the Singapore Embassy, I had to make the copies myself, hand them together with the original document to the Singapore Embassy Consular Services Office who in turn certified the copies I had made as 'Certified True Copies'.

 

So my advice is:

 

If you need to make a registration with the Thai government, find out what documents are required. 

If 'Certified True Copies' are required, contact your embassy, or the embassy of the nation that issued the document and assertion how you get 'Certified True Copies', then follow their advice. 

 

Important:

If you need 'Certified True Copies' allow at least a week to obtain these.

If you need 'Certified Translations' from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of your 'Certified True Copies' allow another week to get that done. 

 

OK. It might not take a week for each of the above, but allow a week - do not expect these things to happen in one day.

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[BKKBike09]

OP - lucky you, in that both the US and Singapore Embassies will certify a marriage certificate. The British Embassy won't do this any longer. I just registered my UK marriage at Wattana in Bangkok and the process of certifying a UK marriage certificate for the khor ror 22 was a real pain, involving the following steps ...

 

1. Send the original marriage certificate to the FCO Legalisation Department in sunny Milton Keynes (after paying for the legalisation service using a credit card), for them to stick an apostille on the back verifying that the certificate is genuine.

The apostille is a separate sheet of paper. The certified document then has to get sent back to you. If you can, have it sent to a friend or family member in the UK because ...

 

2. The certified certificate then has to be posted or taken in person to the Thai Embassy in London, for them to stamp that the FCO legalisation is genuine. If you go in person note that this isn't a wait and pick up service; it takes a couple of days. The Thai Embassy do accept postal applications from overseas in special circumstances but apparently you need to discuss with them first. Once stamped by embassy, the certificate is then either mailed back to you or you can pick it up in person. I had a pre-existing one-week trip back to UK coming up, so I sent the marriage certificate to FCO from here a few weeks before and it was waiting for me in UK on arrival. But I don't live in London and I couldn't get to London before Thursday that week. I went to Thai embassy on the Thu morning and paid for the docs to be posted back to my UK address by recorded delivery. I was leaving that weekend and assumed they wouldn't be sent back till the following week but luckily they arrived on Sat morning, so I could hand carry back with me.  

 

3. Next step is to have the MFA certify the embassy stamp and the FCO legalisation. This requires both the certificate and the apostille on the back to be translated. Original and translations then have to go to MFA in Chaeng Wattana, which also takes a couple of days.

 

4. The district office also wanted to keep the original document but, as it was all scanned by them, we were able to get them to take a copy I'd prepared instead. If you don't want to take the risk that the original will be retained, then it's possible to request a copy of your UK marriage certificate from the General Register Office in UK. Of course that's an extra cost and extra time if you want to use that copy to send for FCO to legalise.

 

On the bright side, the official was relaxed and helpful. Whole process took about 45 minutes. We were required to present only tabien baan, Wife ID card and my current passport. I also gave my pink foreigner ID card (I have PR). No copies. We also needed 2 witnesses; one we brought with us and the other was one of the staff in the district office (they'd previously said that if we didn't have witnesses it didn't matter because they'd provide them).

 

I asked if I could have an extra copy of the khor ror 22 and the official said: "Don't worry - we'll give you 3 copies". 

 

Total cost prior to district office: I forget but probably around US$ 100 in fees etc

 

Total cost at district office: THB 0 - all done for free.

 

 

 

 

[berrec]

Folks, from my experience it's all a big hoax to provide Embassies and the Thai government a license to print money through fees and charges and deplete the world's forests through ridiculous mounds of useless papers.

 

The number of times I have had to submit a new recertified copy of the same documents within the same Thai government departments for different requirements is mind blowing.   

 

Forget about Thailand 4.0, how about fixing Thailand 1.0 first......it's broke!

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, berrec said:

Folks, from my experience it's all a big hoax to provide Embassies and the Thai government a license to print money through fees and charges and deplete the world's forests through ridiculous mounds of useless papers.

 

The number of times I have had to submit a new recertified copy of the same documents within the same Thai government departments for different requirements is mind blowing.   

 

Forget about Thailand 4.0, how about fixing Thailand 1.0 first......it's broke!

Feel free not to comply.

[Russell17au]

Could someone please tell me what is the difference between the Khor ror 2 and the Khor ror 22.

My marriage to a Thai national is registered in the Amphoe office and I was supplied with a Khor ror 2

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Could someone please tell me what is the difference between the Khor ror 2 and the Khor ror 22.

A Kor 2 is for those that got married here.

A Kor 22 is for those that got married elsewhere. It is called s foreign marriage registry.

[sandyf]

On 3/10/2018 at 11:37 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

 

You cannot 'self certify' copies you make. The certification has to be done by your embassy or by the embassy of the nation that issued the document. 
 

That is not quite true, a 'Certified True Copy' can be certified by the translator where they put a stamp on it certifying the document as a true copy.

You need to clarify between a certified true copy and a notorised or legalised copy.

It would be normal for documents relating to a marriage to be legalised but it is certainly not a general requirement.

[Mattd]

One point that the OP did bring up that all should be aware of is the expired passport.

Anything official that you may have done in the past involving the Thai authorities and used a passport that has long expired will require you to produce that passport (at the very least copies) if you have to revisit whatever it is you did.

 

When I divorced, then the Amphur (also at Banglamung) absolutely insisted that I produce the original passport that was used when the marriage was registered 15 years prior, being an ex. offshore worker, this was many passports ago and was also one of two that were legally in use when we married, the official also needed to see the entry stamp in to Thailand that tallied with the date of the marriage, plus of course loads of copies of said passport, although there was no needed to have these legalized.

I asked the official what would happen if I could not produce the old passport and the answer was that they would not register the divorce.

 

Moral, don't throw away your old passports, at the very least keep copies of them.

[Martian]

I just completed the KR 22 process myself. I took my passport and official marriage record (had the signature in blue pen and the embossed (crimped) seal in the paper) from the registrar back in the USA to the USA embassy. I had brought one with me many years ago. Anyway, the passport was copied and I had to make an affidavit and swear with my right hand up that the marriage record was a certified true document as the embassy WILL NOT certify documents (passport copies, yes), they only notarize the affidavit for you. Notarization of the affidavit and passport copy was $50 US each.

 

I then went to Bangkok Translation Service (under Ploenchit BTS station) and they handled translation, organizing of documents and getting the MFA seals on the documents. Their complete service, including EMS back to me, was 3,700 Baht. I then went to my local Amphur and 1 hour later we had our KR 22 with no fee at the Amphur. I recommend the translation service, don't be turned off by their office. I stopped into Fuji translation and was quoted 10,000 Baht for everything , including getting the KR 22. A bit overpriced in my opinion.

[tutsiwarrior]

10 hours ago, Martian said:

I just completed the KR 22 process myself. I took my passport and official marriage record (had the signature in blue pen and the embossed (crimped) seal in the paper) from the registrar back in the USA to the USA embassy. I had brought one with me many years ago. Anyway, the passport was copied and I had to make an affidavit and swear with my right hand up that the marriage record was a certified true document as the embassy WILL NOT certify documents (passport copies, yes), they only notarize the affidavit for you. Notarization of the affidavit and passport copy was $50 US each.

 

I then went to Bangkok Translation Service (under Ploenchit BTS station) and they handled translation, organizing of documents and getting the MFA seals on the documents. Their complete service, including EMS back to me, was 3,700 Baht. I then went to my local Amphur and 1 hour later we had our KR 22 with no fee at the Amphur. I recommend the translation service, don't be turned off by their office. I stopped into Fuji translation and was quoted 10,000 Baht for everything , including getting the KR 22. A bit overpriced in my opinion.

 

great info on the Bangkok Translation Service...I'm wonderin' if those of us that now havta get the US embassy income affidavit signature verified by the MFA for extensions of stay from immigration could go there for that purpose rather than going down to the MFA in person and then having them EMS the document back...any contact details?

 

sorry, don't mean to hijack...