Woman Mauled To Death By Five Of Her Own Rottweiler Dogs

[mikethevigoman]

I think people own these dogs because they are stupid.

That's a bit of a tough statement, isn't it ?

I dont think it is, whats the point ?" they are a time bomb ,.they are usually bought for protection and or to scare people,.I followed a farang the other day arm out the window covered in tatoos.harley ferguson sticker on the back window and a rottweiller that was almost dehydrated in the back of the pick up,.i dont doubt there are some decent owners but i always see these type of dogs owned by a person i would put in the same catagory as the dog !,to be avoided,. Edited June 11, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[mikethevigoman]

Rottweilers are a dangerous breed if not handled properly.

Pit Bulls are also very dangerous with their locking jaws.

These dogs were not bred for family life.

These are vicious and killer dogs bred for tearing things up.

They have real life uses such as military, guard duty and need trained handlers.

People should stick to poodles and labradors.

Dont forget me !

[Pakboong]

Rottweilers are a dangerous breed if not handled properly.

Pit Bulls are also very dangerous with their locking jaws.

These dogs were not bred for family life.

These are vicious and killer dogs bred for tearing things up.

They have real life uses such as military, guard duty and need trained handlers.

People should stick to poodles and labradors.

That is exactly how I feel, although I have a poodle and golden. I don't think anyone has ever been torn apart by a pack of wild golden retrievers, but you do hear of it from time to time as it relates to Pit Bulls and Rottweillers. If it happens and it is you, it only happens once.

If you had read up on the subject you would know that far more people get bitten by 'common breeds' then 'dangerous dogs'. So No, you won't hear it happend all the time with one breed and not another...unless you just don't want to listen.

All dogs can bite when afraid, provoked or their master is attacked. The owner has responsibility over the dog, not the other way around.

Rots are designed to kill. Look how big their mouth is.

Posts like this actually causes the reader to get nosebleed...

In the US, the dog most likely to bite is the dalmation.

[naka]

I guess the dogs didn't like her, perhaps she mistreated them !

Have owned both Rotties and Doberman's, great family pet's.

Read any good dog website and they will recommend a Doberman

over a Border Collie for a family dog

Naka.

[uptou]

I've owned 2 Rottwielers and they were both two of the best dogs I have ever had.

Never had a moments problem with either of them and plan to get 2 more.

Her indoors parents have just got a pair.

ive owned 2 aswell.they are generally a lovely dog,& believe it or not have a reputation as a great family dog (for people who know dogs).i do think its important to take them away from the litter early to get them trained early as they can be head strong,naughty,& do what they want.our one in england is great with kids,they jump all over her.

[larvidchr]

... but the overrepresentation in biting stats. Who did the observation? The 10 year old daughter? How much was she able to recognize dog's body language?

Dogs will NOT attack out-of-the-blue, unless there is a severe physical problem such as a brain tumor. It this example, both dogs must have brain tumors, then? Dogs ALWAYS give body signals prior to a bite/snap or growl. This can be looking away, turning head away, walking away, staring, stiffening up, licking lips, putting tail up just 1 or 2 cm or more, putting hackles up, circling etc etc. You can't expect a 10 year old to be able to recognize some of these very subtle signals.

It is very possible that there has been signals already days, weeks months when these dogs were around the girls. Signals that haven't been picked up by the adults as such. This is something that happens very very often, although not that often with such a drastic and unfortunate outcome.

It is true, though, that with certain breeds it is more difficult to read the body language than with others (and the Rottweiler belongs to this group). Breed standards such as the mutilation of docking tails and cropping ears, erect tails in many terrier breeds, floppy ears, huge amounts of coat over the the eyes and face, etc. certainly doesn't help us, humans, and other dogs in reading this body language.

Nienke

I belive it was a gardener to far away to be able to save the little girl, he saw the girl sitting down and the dogs at that time happily playing with the other girl close by, when they without warning attacked.

The general consencous among dog experts at the time, was that the dogs mistook her action as a territorial marking on their patch.

This is after my humble opinion absolutely not true, dogs will warn and ultimately attack when their boundries/limits is crossed, just the other day my nabo was walking his big dog on a leash when he without knowing it got to close to a mother with puppies under a bush, it attacked his much bigger dog before he had a chance to drag his initially reluctant heavy dog out of the danger zone, this was not a dog with a brain tumor just a mother defending its pubbies against a percived threath.

Normal dogs warnings are not all that subtle and increasing in strenght enough for most to be able to read, the point being first to try to avoid a confrontation with just a warning, making the other part back off, the dogs with the "very subtle signals" as you describe it, are the dangourus ones, as we agree the Rottweiler is, you can hardly expect everybody to know every dog well enough to be able to read "very subtle" or no signals, any dog behaving like that is by default dangerous.

Kind regards

[mikethevigoman]

Why do pitbulls keep being brought into it? It was rotties! Pitbulls are on the dangerous dog lists of many countries, meaning there are many restrictions on their ownership in these countries. This is because,through the breeds' history they were bred for fighting, firstly other animals & now their own species and even today, some pitbulls are trained by some disgusting lowlife members of society to be aggressive fighters. The same is NOT true of rottweilers.

I wouldn't put my child in either of those rooms if I didn't know the dogs very well & their owners well & trust both.

I have over 30 dogs in my house & garden & there is one that I don't let anybody touch or go near, because he bites & is unpredictable. And what fearsome beast is he? A cocker spaniel, who was the unfortunate victim of a very erratic owner before, and even now still shows some behavioral problems because of that. The 3 big (over 30kg) dogs are absolutely fine, with people & other dogs. It's not size, it's not the breed (although there is of course a greater risk with dogs bred to fight), it's the owners, I'm afraid.

Ithink that is what most people are saying here is you are more likely to have a good pet it you choose a dog without this fighting dog tag,.having seen one of these dogs in action i would never consider one as a pet,.some peiople here are saying all dogs can bite, agreed, but that is a completly different thing to a rotweiller losing it,.very scary and can ( and has ) resulted in death as we see here,.

[GuestHouse]

Darwin has been proven right... again.

And will continue to do so while people believe that they are immune from the experience of others with these animals.

'My dog never killed me' is an argument that has no meaning for the future, not for tomorrow, not for the next five minutes or the moment you turn your back.

To pay so much attention to breeding and so little attention to Darwin.. I doubt there is a better example of stupidity.

[mikethevigoman]

I wanted to quote, but it's too much bs to mention.

I have been a dog breeder for over 30 years, not dangerous dogs, but I know about dog's behaviour. I have read very true posts like from Bina and November rain, they said how it is.

I read very stupid posts like owning a Rottweiler is stupid, very low IQ post.

I even read a guy enjoying shooting his gf dog: you're sick mate, go to a psychiatrist! And take Vespa with you, he is sick too.

Question about in what room you put your kids with dogs: are you crazy? NO child should be alone with a dog! As adults have more power over dogs as they are bigger, children are because of being smaller near the point where a dog wants to challenge who is stronger. That is danger!

The biting dogs. In my "civilised" country Holland the most bite incidents are caused by Golden and Labrador retrievers! Meaning hospitalised victims. Not because the dogs are vicious but because they are overbred and behave abnormally! As a retriever is not so strong people won't die, if a Rottweiler bites you have less change, true.

Rottweilers, I mean the dogs that are bred by knowledgeable breeders, is a very reliable dog and will defend your kids to any danger. He will never attack his owner and is an example of how big dogs can behave.

I don't talk pitbulls (american mob breed) as they are bred and trained to kill, Rottweilers are not. Pitbull is not even a breed and forbidden in a lot of countries.

The woman in question, I feel very sorry for her, but it takes a strong hand to control 5 Rottweilers and maybe she had not the skill to be the leader of the pack.

In all the years with dogs I have been bitten only once, by a Golden retriever (being a guest in my kennels), I don't mind.

I wish people would be more aware that incidents happen because of a certain situation, a dog reacts like a dog, human beings do not always act the same, giving dogs the problem of finding out why it is different today.

Dogs are a blessing for society, turn the word dog around and you know why...

Joe

Question about in what room you put your kids with dogs: are you crazy? NO child should be alone with a dog!" As adults have more power over dogs as they are bigger, children are because of being smaller near the point where a dog wants to challenge who is stronger. That is danger!"

Why take any chances ? this is what most people are saying,. i admire you defending these breeds but if there was a make of car that were told could break down at any time would you buy one ? no, you would get a toyota or simalar ( labrador /golden retreiver equavilant ),. i love dogs but these they scare me, only a gun can stop one once it starts,There are probably uses for these dogs,. but in my opinion not in a family home,..

Edited June 11, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Master of the court]

I've owned a lot of dogs in my life. Never had one of these, though. I've had friends and neighbors with them. The important thing is that dogs must be trained--you either do it consciously or unconsciously, but as they grow up they have to be a part of your "pack" and you need to make sure you and your family are the "alpha" males of the pack.

I never let a puppy chew on me, or bite at me--even when it's small or cute, because when they get big it's not cute anymore. I also don't let them eat when I eat or jump on me.

This is really hard in Thailand because everyone things all these little things are so cute in a puppy, but when it's a big dog it's not cute or funny. I once fired a maid for feeding my dog while eating at the table. Enough is enough. The thing was actually jumping all over her. She had been told repeatedly not to do it. (She also liked to steal, by the way, but the dog was the deal breaker).

Scott.........how do you teach a puppy not to chew on you ???? some of them just cant stop doing it , and Im looking for the best way to teach them not to do.

[mikethevigoman]

After a lot of negative comments here about Rottweilers and their owners I am a bit scared to say:"'Yes, I own a Rottweiler!"

The one I own is an imported one, we have imported his pregnant mother from Europe. He is 100% pure breed from a very controlled blood line there.

Many(most) of the Rottweilers here in Thailand are just "produced" for profit and as a showcase for their owners. Nobody realy checks history/pedigree before starting to breed. Result: Dangerous dogs which are difficult to handle.

My wife takes care all day long for our dogs(another female Boxer).

I am the leader of the rack!!!

We have a number 1 rule: Our dogs are allways on the leash outside from our house!!!

Even when we have a walk on the beach here and our Rott gets attacked from many stray dogs I've trained him to be calm.

This kind of breed is very protective and I know that I cannot expect that all people and children know how to behave. It is a big responsibility to own and train such kind of dog.

I wish some of our dog trainers/experts here in the forum write something about this topic.

Gerd

It sounds like you are a responsible dog owner.

If all were like you, there would be no problems and no need for this thread.

Have a good life with your dogs.

Ill second that, and he has a boxer ! my favourite,.

[tim armstrong]

I've owned a lot of dogs in my life. Never had one of these, though. I've had friends and neighbors with them. The important thing is that dogs must be trained--you either do it consciously or unconsciously, but as they grow up they have to be a part of your "pack" and you need to make sure you and your family are the "alpha" males of the pack.

I never let a puppy chew on me, or bite at me--even when it's small or cute, because when they get big it's not cute anymore. I also don't let them eat when I eat or jump on me.

This is really hard in Thailand because everyone things all these little things are so cute in a puppy, but when it's a big dog it's not cute or funny. I once fired a maid for feeding my dog while eating at the table. Enough is enough. The thing was actually jumping all over her. She had been told repeatedly not to do it. (She also liked to steal, by the way, but the dog was the deal breaker).

Agree with all that. But enough of the dog psychology, which I think is lost on many Thais. Sadly, status and/or security, and being one up on the neighbours seem to be motivators for owning exotic dogs here. I've never owned a Rottweiler, but I have been around many aggressive dogs, who like aggressive people are often afraid of something. Its hard to imagine that this was a spontaneous outburst from the pack. What provoked them indeed?? Tim

[mikethevigoman]

I've owned a lot of dogs in my life. Never had one of these, though. I've had friends and neighbors with them. The important thing is that dogs must be trained--you either do it consciously or unconsciously, but as they grow up they have to be a part of your "pack" and you need to make sure you and your family are the "alpha" males of the pack.

I never let a puppy chew on me, or bite at me--even when it's small or cute, because when they get big it's not cute anymore. I also don't let them eat when I eat or jump on me.

This is really hard in Thailand because everyone things all these little things are so cute in a puppy, but when it's a big dog it's not cute or funny. I once fired a maid for feeding my dog while eating at the table. Enough is enough. The thing was actually jumping all over her. She had been told repeatedly not to do it. (She also liked to steal, by the way, but the dog was the deal breaker).

Agree with all that. But enough of the dog psychology, which I think is lost on many Thais. Sadly, status and/or security, and being one up on the neighbours seem to be motivators for owning exotic dogs here. I've never owned a Rottweiler, but I have been around many aggressive dogs, who like aggressive people are often afraid of something. Its hard to imagine that this was a spontaneous outburst from the pack. What provoked them indeed?? Tim

A few years ago in bangkok one killed a baby that wouldnt stop crying,.im wondering if a lot it is boredom, nearly all the people i know that have dogs here fail to exercise them anything like the amount they need,.my mother had a young greyhound, she left it in the car too long and it ate the interior of her car ! and a lawyer i know had the same thing hapen by a young dobie,. what do the experts think ? Edited June 11, 2007 by mikethevigoman

[Nienke]

I belive it was a gardener to far away to be able to save the little girl, he saw the girl sitting down and the dogs at that time happily playing with the other girl close by, when they without warning attacked.A gardener who was watching the kids and the dogs continuously or was working most of the time? And who was too far away to safe the girl, but close enough to see the signalling of the dogs?

The general consencous among dog experts at the time, was that the dogs mistook her action as a territorial marking on their patch. A 10 years old is equivalent to a young dog. She was a girl, equivalent to a female dog. In other words a young female dog, in the dog's mind. If the dogs would have had problems with her 'territorial marking' , then for sure the owners of the dogs have lacked completely in understanding that the dogs had a problem with this girl before already. Normal dogs DO NOT attack out-of-the-blue, or in other words, without a reason and without signalling first.

This is after my humble opinion absolutely not true, dogs will warn and ultimately attack when their boundries/limits is crossed, just the other day my nabo was walking his big dog on a leash when he without knowing it got to close to a mother with puppies under a bush, it attacked his much bigger dog before he had a chance to drag his initially reluctant heavy dog out of the danger zone, this was not a dog with a brain tumor just a mother defending its pubbies against a percived threath.The owner of the big dog didn't see the motherdog, until she showed up growling and snarling. But does this mean the dog of this person also didn't see the motherdog? Maybe, if the dog would have walked off-lead, he would have taken a big bow around that place. Because, being on the lead he didn't had a choice then to follow his owner

Normal dogs warnings are not all that subtle and increasing in strenght enough for most to be able to read, Of course, dog's warnings increase in strength when somebody doesn't listen. This is the same in human society. And with 'enough to be able to read' you mean to read by us, because another (normal) dog has already picked up the signals way before we have.

the point being first to try to avoid a confrontation with just a warning, following survival instincts dogs normally try to avoid confrontation in a non-confrontational way, and warning is already confrontational. In order to avoid confrontation dogs will show sub mission by showing low tail , ears and body postures, looking away, turning head away and/or walking away, etc. They may show calming signals to the other dogs and us. There are many different ways dogs 'talk' to other dogs and to us.

making the other part back off, the dogs with the "very subtle signals" as you describe it, are the dangourus ones, as we agree the Rottweiler is, I donot agree on that Rottweiler are dangerous. I do believe, though, that they are more easily made unmanageable by those who can't handle them.

you can hardly expect everybody to know every dog well enough to be able to read "very subtle" or no signals, No, one can't. But one CAN expect a dog owner of any (mix) breed to understand the basics of dog language, behavior and its development. And I do favor the idea of introducing a dog-keeping license, just like there are motor bike and driver license.

And I also think it would be legitimate of parents, teachers, care-takers, adults in general to teach children to be carefull with dogs. Just as they have to be carefull on roads, with cars, poisonous household liquids, plants, strange men etc etc. How many parents tell their kid that it's ok to go to a dog strange to them to pet it. How many adults will pet a dog strange to them? How many kids will put two arms around the neck of a dog. Most dogs absolutely HATE this. Well, i can go on like this for a while and I won't.

any dog behaving like that is by default dangerous.

Saying that 'any dog behaving like that is by default dangerous', then in fact you are stating that EVERY dog is by default dangerous, as EVERY dog speaks the same language within their human-made limitations. And yeh, you can put it in that way as well. Others put it as : 'EVERY dog can bite' and, thus, is by default dangerous.

Nienke

Kind regards

Edited June 11, 2007 by Nienke

[larvidchr]

Okay Nienke, They could not have known, the girl was a guest, as stated in the first post.

My naboo dident se the dog it came rushing out from under the bush, and his dog is trained not to react to much to other dogs when walking in the lead ( as should all dogs be) moreover you cant walk your dog here without it being in the lead. traffic. soi dogs aso.

As to the rest you mostly state the obvius, with wich I agree.

We do however not agree wether a Rottweiler is dangerous , I think it is beeing breed for a single purpose for years, you think not.

But I am sure you are a good dog owner, as am I.

Have a nice day

Kind regards

Edited June 11, 2007 by larvidchr

[GracelessFawn]

Dogs love my brother. Even street dogs. My bro. is an Alpha Male. I've seem him punched dogs jokingly.

When we were little we had a Rottweiler. The ###### dog bit my brother and I saw it with my own two eyes when my brother bit the dog back! It was kinda funny and scary at the same time. I yelled! Later on, my sister and I teased bro coz he had fur stuck in-between his teeth. Ewwww.

[ozzydom]

In most cities in Oz Rotty,s are classed as a dangerous breed and a license must be applied for to keep one, this is because of the large number of attacks on humans over the years.

You must also provide a 2metre high fenced area to keep the dog in and muzzles must be fitted to the dog in public places.

[mellow1]

Most of my life,I've been around German Shepherds.Here in Thailand,we have 2 of them, along with 2 small Thai dogs,that look like miniature shepherds.We got all the dogs when they were tiny puppies.They all grew up here,with lots of love and room to run.None had any special training,and they behave quite well.They of course know the family,and the people who work for us,they also know the difference.If other people come here,be they family or strangers,the dogs are put into a dog run.Although they are good sensible dogs,they get excited and protective with new arrivals.If the people are here for more than a few days,the dogs will then be introduced, to the people,under supervision.The dogs seem to be able to understand this very well.The people seem to get it too.I've never seen them make any moves, or raise their voices, in what may be perceived as aggressive,towards any family members,nor the couple who work for us,and should be considered as part of the family.I am careful of any strange dog,big or small,and you should be too.

I feel sorry for this woman as well as her dogs.But I find it hard to believe, that well loved and cared for dogs,will just kill their owner.There has to be more to this story which led to this womans death.

[thaigerd]

I think it is beeing breed for a single purpose for years, you think not.

Sorry, but I think you're a bit wrong with this statement.

Gerd

[TAWP]

As many of you already know, we have a lot of dogs. And by 'we' I mean my wifes family on our shared land. 32 of them right now. So from this I have both been able to see how people, owners and non-owners, handle these dogs aswell as other dogs during numerous trips to the vets to fix up the dogs mentioned before.

From my experience I would say that most problems with dogs owners experience here comes from their inability to handle them properly. It might be from lacking basic training downto not showing any affection at all apart from them giving food once or twice per day. Different people and different families at different levels, but in the end it all boils down to 'improper handling and care'.

Have you ever seen or heard a dog cry in pain for three days before dying? And having the owners proclaim that it's not a buddist way to put a dog to sleep? It is an eye-opener.

To answer your questions you no doubt have in the back of your minds: No, I haven't been bitten [in Thailand] sofar. But then again I know how to handle dogs and most dogs around here have taken me in as a friend. Or their packleader in the case of our latest pack of puppies just growing up...

So, why was the woman killed? Why did the chicken cross the road? How long is a string?

[Beardog]

All I want to know is were the Rots on that new Fad raw meat diet, Maybe she forgot dinnertime so they ate her instead?