stroll Posted May 16, 2004 Share Posted May 16, 2004 Comments appear in several threads about backpackers and other tourists causing offense through their ignorant behaviour, and, more important, by insisting they are right and Thai customs are wrong. This ranges from arguing with immigration officers about the 'stupidity' of the rules, to disrupting religious events on temple grounds. Then, when the polite Thais are still smiling, they are being called double-faced, dishonest cowards and so on... I believe it is a responsibility of farangs staying in Thailand to help clear misunderstandings of this nature. For example a busdriver once asked my partner to ask me to explain to other passengers on the overnight journey not to put their feet on the headrests and point at the Buddha he had displayed in the front. I wasn't keen on the job, but did explain politely, and luckily it was accepted by everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 When in Rome...The problem is the expat trying to live in Thailand (not just party) is caught square in the middle. We reap to locals attitude generated by abuse from the foreing traveler. In turn, we are the targets to be sneered at as being /holier than thou/ or overstepping our bounds if we attempt to correct improper behavior. Being and accepting we are guests in the Kingdom, we attempt to follow the rules and act appropriately. The problem, as I see it, is the clown contingent ruins it for everyone. We reap the results of thousands of arrogant anal orifices at the borders, at immigration and such. What is the solution? People like you have got a good hold on the right things to do, but as you know, so many farang expect Thai's to do things their way. Just look at the posters who don't fit into the visa mould. They actually expect the laws be tailored to suit their particular needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbkudu Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I think the root of the problem is that many things that Thais find offensive, are perfectly acceptable in western countries. There are quite a few, but probably the most important ones to be aware of are actions that might offend religions, the clergy (monks), the monarchy, touching someone's head inappropriately, gesturing with pointed fingers and placing feet inappropriately. No shoes in houses is a no-brainer anywhere in Asia; if you haven't figured that one out yet, there's no hope. Westerners will often step on a coin that is errantly dropped. This is a bad thing in Thailand because the coins show the King on them. These simple things I have mentioned should keep you out of about 50% of the trouble you could get into. The other 50% can be found at Pat Pong, Nana Plaza or maybe Soi Cowboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 "These simple things I have mentioned should keep you out of about 50% of the trouble you could get into. The other 50% can be found at Pat Pong, Nana Plaza or maybe Soi Cowboy. " What do you mean? Farangs misbehaving there in which way? Touching people's heads inappropriately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbkudu Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Uhhhhhhh......no comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeDanan Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Sorry to my UK friends for this post but…We (Irish that is) have noticed the difference in attitude towards us from people in mainland Europe : If they think we are Irish they are in general positive to us. If they think we are English they are generally negative to us. So, some times we have to go to extremes hence the hats “Kiss me quick I’m Irish” How can we indicate to Thai’s the difference between those of us who love the Kingdom and those who are just pissing through. Have a Happy… DeDanan Perhaps George will do another run of Tee Shirts bearing the slogan THIS FARANG TRIES HARDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbkudu Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Now we all know how wars are started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 A good OP, and I have no doubt one that encompasses the sentiments of many on this web board. However, things have only just started, Thailand is becoming an ever more accessible and ever more popular tourist destination. The people we see in Thailand now, our selves included, are the vanguard for the inevitible onslaught of mass tourism. Things are not going to get better. I also think there is a difficulty when we start to critisize the behaviour of others, rather than inform them of the correct behaviour. That difficulty comes when we try to determine what is acceptible/offensive and who is the judge of such behaviour. There are people in the Thai government who find the existance of beer bars and the whole sex tourism an afront to Thai values. What then is the response to this? At what point does the line have to be drawn and who draws it. I'm not advocating control and I'm not defeding the bars and sex toruism, I'm just pointing out that there is a two way street in Thailand's persuit of the tourist dollar, will inevitably come at a cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Now we all know how wars are started. Is this topic leading to a war ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 One way to stop a lot of it from centering on one's self is to live and visit where farang are not in the majority,such as PATTAYA and BKK and go to where there are no farang, behave yourself and you will find friendly and non-judgmental Thais. But if you are like a lot of visitors here that I know of,they are afraid to get away from farang hangouts,do not feel comfortable with Thais,So therefore, Why not go home and then you will not have to worry about it. I got in an info exchange with a farang that was coming here with the intent of maybe moving,she knew nothing of travel outside of her own country,was not at ease around non-english speakers but didn't want to be away from farang and still wanted the full Thai experience, she called us,asked us to come pick her up at the bus depot and bring her to our home and let her stay with us, We are not in the TOUR GUIDE business,,she lasted in Thailand 4 days and left for home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Now we all know how wars are started. Is this topic leading to a war ? Certainly hope not. But since we all have to "walk" before we can "run" the best advice for newbie farangs in LOS is to listen with both ears the advice they get from the "experienced" ones having lived in-country for some time. I, for one, was not aware of not putting my feet out in the direction of a Monk unitl the first time I was in the company of one and my Chinese/Thai friends pointed out what was acceptable and not. Point is, every Farang when first in a Buddhist cultural situation needs to be taught the social mores. Getting through to some of these arrogant tourists and stoned-out hippie backpackers is another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbkudu Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I agree with Boon Mee, it really is just paying attention to other's guidance and simple common sense. What might be a good idea is a simple pamphlet handed out on incoming Thai Airways flights concerning basic Thai etiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitrevie Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 [For example a busdriver once asked my partner to ask me to explain to other passengers on the overnight journey not to put their feet on the headrests ] Is this for real, does anyone in any country need to have this explained to them, sadly yes I see it all the time in England and on International flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluecat Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 And then, on top of everything, a lot of things vary from location to location. I'm reasonably at home in rural Lanna culture and get by well with Isan. I fail and am honestly quite screwed up when it comes to BKK trraditional. I also am a square peg in higher society of the north. This is very true, Snark. Thailand is quite a big country and if everybody is Thai, the culture can be very different from one place to another as well as from one social "class" to another. My Thai colleagues from Bangkok are very, very different from the people I know in Phuket who in turn are very different from the people I know in the North and in the North East. But isn't it the same in any country? We should not expect the Thai people to follow the same "rules" wherever they are from as we do not expect the Texas people to be the same than the New York people,... Use your own judgement, be open minded and as said before, while in Rome (which is a city, not a country,...), behave like the Romans,... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 A friend and I were going through a wat to our apartment building. An older farang couple in tourist normal attire, shorts and regulation rumpled exotic shirts were strolling and taking pictures, plowing their way through a large group of novices. I let it slide but my friend got the bit in her teeth. She went up to the couple and said,"That is not the proper attire for visiting a Buddhist temple." To which the woman casually smiled and replied, "We're not Buddhist" This is not a bad argument by a foreign tourist. It is especially valid, if the Buddhist temple is a tourist attraction and makes money out of the foreigner by dual pricing, and charging the foreign tourist much more than the local Thais... If you charge them more, because they are foreigners, you have to tolerate more disrespect from them in return..... If foreign visitors are not welcome as they are, they should close this temple to all visitors, and accept only their own believers, like this group of novices. There are many religious places in Thailand (and elsewhere in this world) which are off-limit to foreigners. Temples in Thailand have to make a choice.... a- remain poor, but isolated and undisturbed b- earn good money, but accept the fact, that American or European tourists are not interested in Buddhism, but interested to take plenty of pictures, and this often in a loud and very direct way.... Anyway, they pay for it.....not only for dual pricing entrance fees, but for hotels, restaurants, tailors, nightlife, taxis....and so on and so on.... As for Thailand with such a huge income out of tourism, Thai people have to expect, that some foreign tourists will not even be willing to try to understand something about Thai culture.... Johann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TizMe Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What might be a good idea is a simple pamphlet handed outon incoming Thai Airways flights concerning basic Thai etiquette. There's plenty of space on the back of the Arrival / Departure Card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medicinebox Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What we need is more posters from here to volunteer to walk around with a wooden ruler, and smack the naughty tourists on the wrist, should they seem to do something so ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonthaya Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 You will have to live by the "rules" you are a guest in the country, the least you can do is respect their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 It took me a while to understand what the poster is trying to say, too. I think he believes Thai temples couldn't maintain themselves without the 20B he puts in the donation box, so they shouldn't complain about him pissing on the statues!??? -figuratively speaking. No doubt he will post an exhaustive discourse on the subject within the next 2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 You will have to live by the "rules" you are a guest in the country, the least you can do is respect their way. This is a wish of the host, but everybody who ever worked in the tourist business, as I myself, knows, that it is not possible in reality. You have 3 ways, if your country is visited by many tourists and you have private property of historical value... 1- Keep it closed - this means, no income, but nobody will disturb you. You might eventually run out of money to preserve your historical property. 2- Keep it open, but only for guided group - so you can control, what the visiting tourists are doing. You can give them instructions.... The problem is, that if you have not enough tourists during off-seasons and due to dual pricings and such matters, then you have to pay the employees, considerable maintenance expenses....not so much profit, not so many visitors... 3- Keep it open for everybody.... then you should not be surprised, that tourists coming from everywhere will litter, piss, make noise, paint, damage, steal...consider a lot of damage.... consider also that nobody will care about anything which might be the polite rule of that country, like respectful clothings....they will touch everything, step on everything, make offensive pictures of everything and even push away the locals to continue on time to the next place of history..... stroll Posted on Tue 2004-05-18, 08:04:52 It took me a while to understand what the poster is trying to say, too. I told you the facts... I hope this is understandable now.... Johann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darknight Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Temples in Thailand have to make a choice.... a- remain poor, but isolated and undisturbed b- earn good money, but accept the fact, that American or European tourists are not interested in Buddhism, but interested to take plenty of pictures, and this often in a loud and very direct way.... eeeuh , Buddhism and temples Poor?? I wouldn't like to gues the amount of money on the buddhist order's bank account They own practically half the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted May 18, 2004 Author Share Posted May 18, 2004 QUOTE]stroll Posted on Tue 2004-05-18, 08:04:52 It took me a while to understand what the poster is trying to say, too. I told you the facts... I hope this is understandable now.... Johann Thank you, Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Temples in Thailand have to make a choice.... a- remain poor, but isolated and undisturbed b- earn good money, but accept the fact, that American or European tourists are not interested in Buddhism, but interested to take plenty of pictures, and this often in a loud and very direct way.... eeeuh , Buddhism and temples Poor?? I wouldn't like to gues the amount of money on the buddhist order's bank account They own practically half the country? We had similar movements here also in Japan... but after shutting down for the public for always like the temples in Kyoto, they suddenly had some repairings and after 12 or 18 months they all opened again.... It is difficult to refuse money out of tourism... Yes - everybody knows, what tourists are damaging...how they behave... but it is still a business....it is a very profitable business money is money.... Johann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted May 18, 2004 Author Share Posted May 18, 2004 The world is full of bad monks, who want to take the man's money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxexile Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 They own practically half the country? the way some of the old temples which functioned quite adequately are being rebuilt as mirrored chromed las vegas style glitzoid palaces is nothing short of shameful. the monks get upgraded accommodation too. the villagers who donate are still living in shacks with no access to decent healthcare or government services. it reminds me of the enormous roman catholic cathedrals filled with priceless artifacts that are dotted around the world whilst the people who go and pray in them are wanting for basic healthcare. i enjoy visiting thai temples but stopped donating long ago. religion.....dontcha just love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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