In surprise summit concession, Trump says he will halt Korea war games

[Rarebear]

1 minute ago, DM07 said:

Your last sentence is the only thing I agree with: what the #@$% has he been on about!?

?

He wants Europe to pay a fair share of Nato and allow USA to export to European markets in the same way Europe exports to USA.

[samran]

17 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

Not.  Germany won't pay the bills owed.  They won't meet their little 2% goal.  It is like pulling teeth.  Read a bit about how Trump wants Germany to start paying Nato bills.  USA gets nothing but aggravation and lopsided balance of payments from Germany.   What do you think Trump has been on about for the past year. 

Of course they aren't going to meet their 2% goal unless the Americans give up something worthwhile.

 

If the Germans are going to start spending, and they can given their strong economy, they may say to the US: 'Well, given we've bought all these planes, we are going to need that air field back, and we'll probably want that army base for all those tanks we've bought....oh and don't forget those barracks for all theses fine tutonic soldiers we've now trained up. Oh and by the way, we've got less room over our airspace for your jets now. Please only fly them between 3pm and 6pm on the 29th of February each year.

 

And do you think the yanks will want to give these bases back?? You know the ones that they are bitching and moaning that they 'have' to pay for? Of course not.

 

Oh, and how do you like our new/old national anthem? Deutchland Deutchland uber alles....really catchy isn't it?

 

Yep, the Americans are REALLY going to go for that.

[Rarebear]

27 minutes ago, samran said:

Of course they aren't going to meet their 2% goal unless the Americans give up something worthwhile.

 

If the Germans are going to start spending, and they can given their strong economy, they may say to the US: 'Well, given we've bought all these planes, we are going to need that air field back, and we'll probably want that army base for all those tanks we've bought....oh and don't forget those barracks for all theses fine tutonic soldiers we've now trained up. Oh and by the way, we've got less room over our airspace for your jets now. Please only fly them between 3pm and 6pm on the 29th of February each year.

 

And do you think the yanks will want to give these bases back?? You know the ones that they are bitching and moaning that they 'have' to pay for? Of course not.

 

Oh, and how do you like our new/old national anthem? Deutchland Deutchland uber alles....really catchy isn't it?

 

Yep, the Americans are REALLY going to go for that.

In 2016 the USA became Germany's biggest market.  We could go into to the leverage this gives Trump but it's not on topic and I don't think you know much about NATO so pointless really. 

[harada]

Putin, Xi and Kim Jong un must be popping the champagne corks and having a good old belly laugh, they've gotten all they ever wanted. 

[Rarebear]

6 minutes ago, harada said:

Putin, Xi and Kim Jong un must be popping the champagne corks and having a good old belly laugh, they've gotten all they ever wanted. 

Trump started N. Korea on the path to become a member of the global community which will eventually lead to something like the Korean Spring comparable to the Arab Spring.  I work for a Korean company in Thailand and they think Trump is a hero.  You havn't figured it out yet? 

[lannarebirth]

52 minutes ago, samran said:

Of course they aren't going to meet their 2% goal unless the Americans give up something worthwhile.

 

If the Germans are going to start spending, and they can given their strong economy, they may say to the US: 'Well, given we've bought all these planes, we are going to need that air field back, and we'll probably want that army base for all those tanks we've bought....oh and don't forget those barracks for all theses fine tutonic soldiers we've now trained up. Oh and by the way, we've got less room over our airspace for your jets now. Please only fly them between 3pm and 6pm on the 29th of February each year.

 

And do you think the yanks will want to give these bases back?? You know the ones that they are bitching and moaning that they 'have' to pay for? Of course not.

 

Oh, and how do you like our new/old national anthem? Deutchland Deutchland uber alles....really catchy isn't it?

 

Yep, the Americans are REALLY going to go for that.

 

The US has been closing bases for a decade or more.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/world/proposed-us-base-closings-send-a-shiver-through-a-german-town.html\

 

Here's the new reality:

 

https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/is-nato-back-that-depends-on-germany/33475

[samran]

16 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

The US has been closing bases for a decade or more.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/22/world/proposed-us-base-closings-send-a-shiver-through-a-german-town.html\

 

Here's the new reality:

 

https://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/is-nato-back-that-depends-on-germany/33475

I'm not sure what your point is. The article you sent justifies German reticence for increasing its defense budget.

 

“Germany is still in a very pacifist mood. Everybody who’d ask for increasing substantially our defense budget would be seen as a warmonger,” says Clemens Wergin, the foreign editor for the center-right German newspaper Die Welt.

[samran]

47 minutes ago, Rarebear said:

In 2016 the USA became Germany's biggest market.  We could go into to the leverage this gives Trump but it's not on topic and I don't think you know much about NATO so pointless really. 

Supposedly good friends don't leverage one part of the relationship with another.

 

But, even so. American's need something from Germany (their superior goods and services presumably). And he wants to cut this off?

 

Germany will just turn to other markets. Like it has always done. It has more friends than the US does at the moment.

 

[Rarebear]

1 minute ago, samran said:

Supposedly good friends don't leverage one part of the relationship with another.

 

But, even so. American's need something from Germany (their superior goods and services presumably). And he wants to cut this off?

 

Germany will just turn to other markets. Like it has always done. It has more friends than the US does at the moment.

Sorry, not being rude but it's just too far off topic to debate. 

[lannarebirth]

2 minutes ago, samran said:

I'm not sure what your point is. The article you sent justifies German reticence for increasing its defense budget.

 

“Germany is still in a very pacifist mood. Everybody who’d ask for increasing substantially our defense budget would be seen as a warmonger,” says Clemens Wergin, the foreign editor for the center-right German newspaper Die Welt.

 

It doesn't justify it in any way at all. It's not because of pacifism, it is because of expedience and a political calculation that some other country (US) will foot the bill for a while longer:

 

"Here’s one big indicator: Despite talk of increasing the defense budget in the wake of Russia’s takeover of Crimea, Berlin ultimately cut its military spending for the coming year by €800 million (about $1 billion) — from €33.3 billion to €32.4 billion. The government argued it had to close the budget gap, but Benitez says it’s a bad sign that “they’re cutting the defense budget at a time when their economy is doing so much better than the other allies.”

[Hummin]

2 hours ago, Rarebear said:

That's a benefit for Germany not the USA. 

Well, that is wrong, if you look at the map where USA have it´s "stations", you will see how they surraunding Russia, and Norway is back on the map for USA soldiers, and target for Moscow! Why do you think Nato care so much about Krim? And how important it is to Moscow? In you wildest dream you could believe they would let Ukraine get closer ties to Europe and EU?

 

We have seen this cind of circus before like we see with Korea, it will not last, thats for sure, because how could NK give up their nukes now? It will be status Q, and hopefully in time, they will reunion with SK somehow when enough is enough! The next problem USA have is Irak, and how they are going to deal with that one, and Syria, China/Pillippines/Vietnam/Japan, Pakistan, India, Russia, Libya, and many other African countries as well. 

[dragonballz]

same again i would like to post but being a trump supporter do not want to get banned

[johnnybangkok]

 I appreciate you Trump supporters are not big on facts or historical data but lets have a go:-

 

1985: North Korea signs Nuclear NonProliferation Treaty

1992: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#1)

1994: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#2)

1999: North Korea signs historic agreement to end missile tests

2000: North Korea signs historic agreement to reunify Korea! S. Korean President awarded Nobel Peace Prize

2005: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula

2005: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program and "denuclearize"! (#3)

2006: North Korea declares support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula

2006: North Korea again support for "denuclearization" of Korean peninsula

2007: North Korea signs historic agreement to halt nuclear program! (#4)

2007: N&S Korea sign agreement on reunification

2010: North Korea commits to ending Korean War

2010: North Korea announces commitment to "denuclearize"

2010: North Korea again announces commitment to "denuclearize"

2011: North Korea announces plan to halt nuclear and missile tests

2012: North Korea announces halt to nuclear program

2015: North Korea offers to halt nuclear tests

2016: North Korea again announces support for "denuclearization

2018: NORTH KOREA SIGNS A VAGUE DOCUMENT ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF NO NUKES..... AND THIS TIME GETS ALL THAT THEY WANT.

 

But yeah, well done Trump.

[sanemax]

I do not know why people are surprised by this move .

The joint US/SK military exercises in the area were to prepare for a war with North Korea , now that there is a new era of friendship between USA & NK , there are now no need for these military exercises .

   It would show a lack of distrust in the peace agreement , if the USA continued preparing for war with NK , by continuing their military exercises in the region

[bristolboy]

6 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

While I think Trump's comments with regard to military exercises may have been off the cuff I'm pretty certain the actual concession , if it happens, will have been vetted by both the State and Defense departments.

Really?

Pentagon and Seoul Surprised by Trump Pledge to Halt Military Exercises

 

 President Trump’s pledge on Tuesday to cancel military exercises on the Korean Peninsula surprised not only allies in South Korea but also the Pentagon.

Hours after Mr. Trump’s announcement in Singapore, American troops in Seoul said they are still moving ahead with a military exercise this fall — Ulchi Freedom Guardian — until they receive guidance otherwise from the chain of command.

Lt. Col. Jennifer Lovett, a United States military spokeswoman in South Korea, said in an email that the American command there “has received no updated guidance on execution or cessation of training exercises — to include this fall’s schedule Ulchi Freedom Guardian.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/trump-military-exercises-north-south-korea.html

[lannarebirth]

19 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Really?

Pentagon and Seoul Surprised by Trump Pledge to Halt Military Exercises

 

 President Trump’s pledge on Tuesday to cancel military exercises on the Korean Peninsula surprised not only allies in South Korea but also the Pentagon.

Hours after Mr. Trump’s announcement in Singapore, American troops in Seoul said they are still moving ahead with a military exercise this fall — Ulchi Freedom Guardian — until they receive guidance otherwise from the chain of command.

Lt. Col. Jennifer Lovett, a United States military spokeswoman in South Korea, said in an email that the American command there “has received no updated guidance on execution or cessation of training exercises — to include this fall’s schedule Ulchi Freedom Guardian.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/12/world/asia/trump-military-exercises-north-south-korea.html

 

 

Yes, really.

 

Quote

 

Pentagon: Mattis consulted on Trump move to halt US-South Korean war games

Defense Secretary James Mattis was consulted on, and not surprised by, President Trump’s announcement Tuesday that the Pentagon will hold off on military exercises with South Korea during ongoing negotiations with North Korea, CNN reported. 

“He was not surprised. He was consulted. ... The secretary is in full alignment with the president to meet his goal which is denuclearization of the peninsula,” Pentagon chief spokeswoman Dana White told CNN.

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Joseph Dunford also knew of Trump’s plan to suspend large-scale military exercises, according to multiple news reports.

 

 

 

 

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/391862-pentagon-mattis-consulted-on-trump-move-to-halt-us-south-korean-war-games

 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

 

Yes, really.

 

 

 

 

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/391862-pentagon-mattis-consulted-on-trump-move-to-halt-us-south-korean-war-games

 

And yet no one in South Korea was told about it? Because Mattis is incompetent? Do you think maybe just possibly that Mattis is not being entirely truthful? What would Mattis gain by saying he wasn't consulted. Because Trump would never hold that against him. 

In addition to which, as you may recall, Trump agreed to meet with Kim without consulting anyone. So I don't know why you think it's unlikely that Trump would offer this without consultation.

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And yet no one in South Korea was told about it? Because Mattis is incompetent? Do you think maybe just possibly that Mattis is not being entirely truthful? What would Mattis gain by saying he wasn't consulted. Because Trump would never hold that against him. 

In addition to which, as you may recall, Trump agreed to meet with Kim without consulting anyone. So I don't know why you think it's unlikely that Trump would offer this without consultation.

 

I'm not saying it is likely or unlikely he would have offered without consultation, only that he did consult the Pentagon, according to his highest ranking officials and official spokesperson. I think Mattis is being truthful because I've never read anything from him that struck me as untruthful. I take him at his word unless someone can definitively prove otherwise.

 

As for South Korea not knowing or our forces stationed there, that doesn't surprise me at all. I wouldn't let that information out prior to the meeting either.

Edited June 13, 2018 by lannarebirth

[Hummin]

53 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I do not know why people are surprised by this move .

The joint US/SK military exercises in the area were to prepare for a war with North Korea , now that there is a new era of friendship between USA & NK , there are now no need for these military exercises .

   It would show a lack of distrust in the peace agreement , if the USA continued preparing for war with NK , by continuing their military exercises in the region

No one ca afforth a war with NK! Simple as that, and the paper they written their agreement on, is in best case worth a place on the wall, just for awhile before this one goes down the drain as well. 

 

Anyway, it is just about time for a bigger conflict, but with whom and when, we just have to wait and see! 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And yet no one in South Korea was told about it? Because Mattis is incompetent? Do you think maybe just possibly that Mattis is not being entirely truthful? What would Mattis gain by saying he wasn't consulted. Because Trump would never hold that against him. 

In addition to which, as you may recall, Trump agreed to meet with Kim without consulting anyone. So I don't know why you think it's unlikely that Trump would offer this without consultation.

If Donald doesnt want to participate in war games, he doesnt have to and he doesnt have to ask or tell anyone before hand .

   What difference does it make , if Donald told SK last week or next week ?

Donald and Kim came to an agreement : No more rocket testing and in return, no more military exercises  , Donald will then inform SK that USA will not participate in any more war games 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

If Donald doesnt want to participate in war games, he doesnt have to and he doesnt have to ask or tell anyone before hand .

   What difference does it make , if Donald told SK last week or next week ?

Donald and Kim came to an agreement : No more rocket testing and in return, no more military exercises  , Donald will then inform SK that USA will not participate in any more war games 

Since North Korea had already announced it had stopped missile testing, how did this agreement change the status quo in regard to that?

And no one's questioning that Trump has the right. Just questioning his negotiating savvy. He also has the right to reveal highly classified intelligence to the Russians. But he would never do that...oh wait..

Edited June 13, 2018 by bristolboy

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

No one ca afforth a war with NK! Simple as that, and the paper they written their agreement on, is in best case worth a place on the wall, just for awhile before this one goes down the drain as well. 

Would you like to see this peace agreement fail , just to see Donald fail ?

Would you rather have hostilities, confrontation and possibly a war , just to get a victory about a Trump failure ?

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Would you like to see this peace agreement fail , just to see Donald fail ?

Would you rather have hostilities, confrontation and possibly a war , just to get a victory about a Trump failure ?

Are you running the Tinkerbell Gambit here? If Trump fails, it will be because we didn't clap our hands hard enough?

Whatever  motivations may be, they are irrelevant to an analysis of the situation.

Edited June 13, 2018 by bristolboy

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Would you like to see this peace agreement fail , just to see Donald fail ?

Would you rather have hostilities, confrontation and possibly a war , just to get a victory about a Trump failure ?

Not at all, and not my intention with the post. If Donald Succeed, great, we just have to wait and see. My coment was "We can not afford a war now", therefor kind of treaty is on its place, but I promise you, new war plans, are made in the moment, trust me! 

 

 

[Thaidream]

Donald Trump has failed at many things but his meeting with Kim is not one of them.  NKorea has already released 3 American 'hostages';  agreed publicly to denuclearization; and  publicly shut down its nuclear test site-  of course Trump would order ceasing military exercises as a show of good faith. No surprise to anyone. The Pentagon; State Department and most analysts could see this coming.

 

Now the devil is in the details. I expect the next step will be a formal meeting between Kim; Trump and all the allied powers who fought in the Korean War to sign a document formally ending the war.  This will take place at Pannmunjon in a huge ceremony probably  with a Trump visit to NKorea and a Kim visit to the US.

 

Negotiations will continue over who takes control of NK's nuclear armaments and when the US will leave SKorea and pull it's troops off the peninsula. Then there is the question of inspections.   The final step will be the reunification of Korea which will take decades to occur.

 

As much as I dislike Trump and his policies- he must be given credit for this. No other President has made this happen- but Trump did.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Donald Trump has failed at many things but his meeting with Kim is not one of them.  NKorea has already released 3 American 'hostages';  agreed publicly to denuclearization; and  publicly shut down its nuclear test site-  of course Trump would order ceasing military exercises as a show of good faith. No surprise to anyone. The Pentagon; State Department and most analysts could see this coming.

 

Now the devil is in the details. I expect the next step will be a formal meeting between Kim; Trump and all the allied powers who fought in the Korean War to sign a document formally ending the war.  This will take place at Pannmunjon in a huge ceremony probably  with a Trump visit to NKorea and a Kim visit to the US.

 

Negotiations will continue over who takes control of NK's nuclear armaments and when the US will leave SKorea and pull it's troops off the peninsula. Then there is the question of inspections.   The final step will be the reunification of Korea which will take decades to occur.

 

As much as I dislike Trump and his policies- he must be given credit for this. No other President has made this happen- but Trump did.

No other President would agree to meet a Kim for a preliminary negotiation in which nothing definitive was arrived at. Trump is now on the electoral hook to spin whatever follows as a success. Kim has no electorate to worry about. The LA times had a report that the North Koreans balked at completing it by 2020 which was requested by Trump for electoral reasons. Advantage Kim.

 

And how do you know that these negotiations will ultimately succeed?

 

[Psimbo]

7 hours ago, aircooledflat4 said:

^ for sure. It’s about time Sth Korea and Japan pony up their own defence resources and capabilities. The days of relying on the US to be the world’s cop, watchdog, protector are over.

I don't think either country has ever had much choice in the matter. Japan has been stuck with them since 1945, Korea since the 50s. When the Philippines kicked the US out Okinawa became even more important strategically, along with the other bases. Huge amounts of US hardware sold to both countries as well- makes your comment pretty ill-informed.

[Psimbo]

37 minutes ago, sanemax said:

If Donald doesnt want to participate in war games, he doesnt have to and he doesnt have to ask or tell anyone before hand .

   What difference does it make , if Donald told SK last week or next week ?

Donald and Kim came to an agreement : No more rocket testing and in return, no more military exercises  , Donald will then inform SK that USA will not participate in any more war games 

Errrr- that has been no actual 'agreement'. Loads of words and rhetoric but nothing actually fixed (the no wargames thing was an afterthought not even in any document- I bet the Pentagon and SKs are spinning).

 

Typical Orange Buffoon, smoke and mirrors with little or no substance behind it but 'did you get my picture'? 

 

Mind you as Kim is such a 'terrific guy' I'm sure all will be well.

[simple1]

6 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

That's why China is removing its missiles from Wood Island? 

Trump played the summit perfectly. 

Correct, but PRC has relocated the missiles to another island in the South China Sea. so not a win for Trump

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Psimbo said:

I don't think either country has ever had much choice in the matter. Japan has been stuck with them since 1945, Korea since the 50s. When the Philippines kicked the US out Okinawa became even more important strategically, along with the other bases. Huge amounts of US hardware sold to both countries as well- makes your comment pretty ill-informed.

Actually, it's pretty well informed.

South Korea spends 2.6 percent of its GDP on defense.

https://tradingeconomics.com/south-korea/military-expenditure-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html

Japan's came in at 0.93

https://tradingeconomics.com/japan/military-expenditure-percent-of-gdp-wb-data.html