The Chiang Rai drama should open our eyes

[Brunolem]

Following closely the dramatic events unfolding in a Chiang Rai cave, we realize how powerless we are against nature.

 

A cave and some rain are enough to put us on our knees, despite the best of what the world can provide being now on site.

 

What will happen when the consequences of our destructive actions (massive pollution and poisoning leading to soil depletion, climate change, extinction of species and so on) will be felt in all their intensity?

 

Shouldn't we learn from a minor event like the one in Chiang Rai (minor is not meant for the victims but for the scale of this specific nature's strike), that we are not really more prepared than our long gone ancestors to deal with nature's wrath?

 

Instead of blindly, and greedily, developing self-driving cars, hypersonic planes and weapons, rockets to reach Mars and other artificial intelligence BS, shouldn't we get our priorities straight, stop ignoring the massive dangers that we will have to face soon enough, and start dealing with the issues that (will) really matter?

 

[worgeordie]

Mother nature will always win ,one way or the other,

once civilization moves forward,good or bad ,there's 

no turning back, we are all along just for the ride.

I don't like the way some things are going,the pollution

of the seas with plastic,chemicals,same with the land,

out of control consumerism, must have it,and have it

today,there's too many of us on the planet,so expect

something to bring things back into balance,be it war,

or epidemic.

regards worgeordie

[OmarZaid]

Native Americans said > a century ago that whites 'will die by and in their own refuse' 

[Megasin1]

I'm afraid I don't see your comparison with this current event to what you are talking about. These kids wandered far into a cave that had warning signs telling people not to enter for the risk of flooding, this is more a case of familiarity breeds contempt. The attention that the situation is receiving (other than from the self serving politicians ) indicates that humanity is still thriving and people are willing to help their neighbours in times of need. The self driving cars are being advanced furthest by Tesla, which are electric cars, not fossil fuelled cars and the advances in rocket technology for man to reach Mars is an insurance against extinction. 

Yes, plastics need to be sorted out and yes, nature can be a fickle and destructive force, but the flooding of the caves was hardly unpredictable and cannot be described as a force of nature.

 

[SpeakeasyThai]

20 minutes ago, OmarZaid said:

Native Americans said > a century ago that whites 'will die by and in their own refuse' 

Was he a racist then?

[JLCrab]

3 hours ago, worgeordie said:

<snip> there's too many of us on the planet,so expect

something to bring things back into balance,be it war,

or epidemic.

regards worgeordie

... and on that happy note, a musical interlude:

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by JLCrab

[Juan B Tong]

Well written, but <deleted>.

 

I urge all TV contributors to smoke up after you contribute, not before.

[CanuckThai]

My best wishes go out to the kids in the cave and their families, honestly.  Their are many people involved in this, risking their own lives and safety,  it is extremely commendable.

 

The most poignant of this ordeal for me is the unprepared, disorganized emergency response capabilities and lack of respect for not only the Thai people, but also the 35 million +/- tourists/ATM's that help drive the economy.  Yes, their will be arguments, and nay sayers  about my opinion.  

 

My argument is, when a handful of people (not just a bit, but obscenely) rape and pillage a country,  gross negligence across the board is rampant (excused and wai'd),  basic emergency services/resources ignored (specialist training etc), education system purposely sabotaged,  etc...etc..etc, but then hide behind the 3rd world country excuse, it is obscene.

 

Yes the kids are in trouble, its a horrible situation.  But on average, 30+/- people/kids a day are killed in car/motorcycle/vehicle accidents.  Anyone taking a stand to protect/prevent unnecessary deaths?  No.  

 

Nature has a very minute part this incident.  Park authority negligence, enforcement of park policy, education, a culture of ignoring rules, emergency response preparedness/plans,  culture of poor communication/unqualified authorities, ...the list goes on. 

 

8 days in the cave, and authorities have yet to confirm the exact location of the kids...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by CanuckThai

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, Megasin1 said:

I'm afraid I don't see your comparison with this current event to what you are talking about. These kids wandered far into a cave that had warning signs telling people not to enter for the risk of flooding, this is more a case of familiarity breeds contempt. The attention that the situation is receiving (other than from the self serving politicians ) indicates that humanity is still thriving and people are willing to help their neighbours in times of need. The self driving cars are being advanced furthest by Tesla, which are electric cars, not fossil fuelled cars and the advances in rocket technology for man to reach Mars is an insurance against extinction. 

Yes, plastics need to be sorted out and yes, nature can be a fickle and destructive force, but the flooding of the caves was hardly unpredictable and cannot be described as a force of nature.

 

Were their warning signs? The one pictured in the papers when the rescue mission first began looked brand new and cautioned about entering the cave in July, not June. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Krataiboy

[Briggsy]

Gosh, my take from this is that Thailand continues with its "learn on the job" culture that eschews planning, preparation and rigorous training. There you go, same situation, two different viewpoints.

[alzack]

Good god  help us, another global warming freak Its called the MONSOON mate, happens   every year god help us The real problem all those Thai faces trying to get on the Telly VANITY gone mad

Edited June 30, 2018 by alzack

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Megasin1 said:

The self driving cars are being advanced furthest by Tesla, which are electric cars, not fossil fuelled cars and the advances in rocket technology for man to reach Mars is an insurance against extinction. 

 

Electric cars powered by electricity produced by burning...fossil fuels!

 

Extinction caused by what? An asteroid or, more likely, human stupidity?

Destroying a perfectly habitable planet and then seek refuge on a perfectly unhabitable planet!

 

[Brunolem]

12 minutes ago, alzack said:

Good god  help us, another global warming freak Its called the MONSOON mate, happens   every year god help us The real problem all those Thai faces trying to get on the Telly VANITY gone mad

Can you understand what you read?

Climate change deniers, another species close to extinction, are not known for being open minded, but anyway my post is not about global warming or the monsoon, but about us vs nature.

Don't let your dogmatism blind you...

 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Brunolem

[Lacessit]

I'm finding a big gap between the reporting of this potential tragedy, and the reporting of a fire at Wiang Pa Pao which killed a number of GIRL students. Media coverage only lasted a couple of days.

[jenny2017]

2 hours ago, Megasin1 said:

I'm afraid I don't see your comparison with this current event to what you are talking about. These kids wandered far into a cave that had warning signs telling people not to enter for the risk of flooding, this is more a case of familiarity breeds contempt. The attention that the situation is receiving (other than from the self serving politicians ) indicates that humanity is still thriving and people are willing to help their neighbours in times of need. The self driving cars are being advanced furthest by Tesla, which are electric cars, not fossil fuelled cars and the advances in rocket technology for man to reach Mars is an insurance against extinction. 

Yes, plastics need to be sorted out and yes, nature can be a fickle and destructive force, but the flooding of the caves was hardly unpredictable and cannot be described as a force of nature.

 

Agreed, totally different shoes. The assistant coach was at fault and the disaster was predictable. Considering that we're in the rainy season, there's no need for a fortune teller. 

 

  The coach made his biggest mistake by leading them to their misfortune. Well, let's hope that they are still alive, even if it's more wishful thinking. While it's true that we want to fly to other planets, have space stations, too many people are so spaced out that they don't see the trees in the forest.

 

  Why was the deep sea never really part of expeditions, experts know of so many unknown species that live down there. Even when I don't believe that NASA made a moon landing, what did we get out of this money wasting events? Some man on the moon posters and a frying pan? 

Is the Teflon pan the only useable creation that somehow relates to the missions?

The truth is that it was more an "I've got the longer one" between Russia and Super now pretty much outpowered U.S of A. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by jenny2017
Moon and beerwalk had to be done

[mfd101]

The only useful contribution most of us can make individually to the future of the planet is not to reproduce for the next 50 years.

[soalbundy]

25 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Electric cars powered by electricity produced by burning...fossil fuels!

 

Extinction caused by what? An asteroid or, more likely, human stupidity?

Destroying a perfectly habitable planet and then seek refuge on a perfectly unhabitable planet!

 

sounds like us as we are.........stupid to the bone

[soalbundy]

13 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

The only useful contribution most of us can make individually to the future of the planet is not to reproduce for the next 50 years.

too late.

[Brunolem]

17 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

 

 

Even when I don't believe that NASA made a moon landing, what did we get out of this money wasting events? 

Maybe this...

 

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/Moon-Fuel-A-New-Multi-Trillion-Dollar-Treasure.html

Edited June 30, 2018 by Brunolem

[alzack]

extinction, well certanly some of these ex pats going that way. MONSSOOOOOON nothing else

[Brunolem]

12 minutes ago, alzack said:

extinction, well certanly some of these ex pats going that way. MONSSOOOOOON nothing else

Can't you make a difference between the event and the CAUSE of the event?

 

The monsoon and the teacher's irresponsibility caused the event, yes!

 

But that doesn't change the fact that, despite all of our technology, we are powerless in the face of such an event...in the same way that we are powerless when hurricanes destroy Puerto Rico and other places.

 

So maybe it would be better avoiding to disturb too much our natural environment, and not to get even more frequent and destructive events in return for our irresponsible behavior...

Edited June 30, 2018 by Brunolem

[jenny2017]

36 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Electric cars powered by electricity produced by burning...fossil fuels!

 

Extinction caused by what? An asteroid or, more likely, human stupidity?

Destroying a perfectly habitable planet and then seek refuge on a perfectly unhabitable planet!

 

 More plastic bags for Thailand! Turtles need more digestive problems and people are poisoning themselves by putting boiling hot food into them. 

  Isn't America the number two, right after China, in polluting the planet? 

I'm glad that I'm too old to live on the moon. 

[jenny2017]

15 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

sounds like us as we are.........stupid to the bone

With one of the best examples in another thread. A Brit who's selling drugs until he almost got caught. That's indeed stupidity pure. ?

[toofarnorth]

6 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Mother nature will always win ,one way or the other,

once civilization moves forward,good or bad ,there's

no turning back, we are all along just for the ride.

I don't like the way some things are going,the pollution

of the seas with plastic,chemicals,same with the land,

out of control consumerism, must have it,and have it

today,there's too many of us on the planet,so expect

something to bring things back into balance,be it war,

or epidemic.

regards worgeordie

You have reminded me worgeordie of the scenario mentioned on here last week and all the tons of metalic rubbish at the dock here. It has , now to be sent back and someone said it won't get back as no one wants to pay and it might end up dumped in the ocean. If this happens the pollution would be the biggest the world has likely seen .

This world is take take take , very little given back.

[Brunolem]

2 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

 More plastic bags for Thailand! Turtles need more digestive problems and people are poisoning themselves by putting boiling hot food into them. 

  Isn't America the number two, right after China, in polluting the planet? 

I'm glad that I'm too old to live on the moon. 

No plastic bags with nuclear fusion.

In theory the best source of energy, but still far from our grasp...

[Expatthailover]

7 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Mother nature will always win ,one way or the other,

once civilization moves forward,good or bad ,there's 

no turning back, we are all along just for the ride.

I don't like the way some things are going,the pollution

of the seas with plastic,chemicals,same with the land,

out of control consumerism, must have it,and have it

today,there's too many of us on the planet,so expect

something to bring things back into balance,be it war,

or epidemic.

regards worgeordie

War is no good if we have to rely on geordies to win it

[Expatthailover]

1 hour ago, alzack said:

extinction, well certanly some of these ex pats going that way. MONSSOOOOOON nothing else

Amen to that

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, Megasin1 said:

I'm afraid I don't see your comparison with this current event to what you are talking about. These kids wandered far into a cave that had warning signs telling people not to enter for the risk of flooding, this is more a case of familiarity breeds contempt. 

Indeed!

Chiang Rai is an event at a micro level that replicates what we can see at macro level in many other cases.

 

Despite the risks, the children and especially their teacher, entered the cave, and nature is making them pay for their irresponsibility.

 

Agrobusiness and the farmers poisoning the soils and the crops are behaving in exactly the same way, with far greater consequences.

 

They also know the risks and yet they ignore them!

 

In return for their irresponsibilty, and greed, people, often innocent because nature strikes back blindly, get cancer (cases are exploding worldwide with little or no alarm from the media...go figure).

Later on, once the destruction will reach a certain threshold, the consequences will go much further than cancer.

 

And this is also true with many other issues.

 

Plastic in the waters is not only killing fish...

People know the risks and the consequences...do they stop?

Not at all! They behave exactly like this group in Chiang Rai, ignoring whatever they feel inconvenient.

 

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, toofarnorth said:

You have reminded me worgeordie of the scenario mentioned on here last week and all the tons of metalic rubbish at the dock here. It has , now to be sent back and someone said it won't get back as no one wants to pay and it might end up dumped in the ocean. If this happens the pollution would be the biggest the world has likely seen .

This world is take take take , very little given back.

Whilst I agree with the general thrust of your arguments the fact is human societies have cared very little for the general environment.

 

We have ample evidence that the general deforestation of Mesopotamia and the Mediterranean basin has caused massive problems but no-one cared when they chopped down the trees in antiquity or at any other time.

 

Think of all the ships that were sunk in WW2-all the oil and other pollutants that were released.

 

Perhaps we are a rogue species doomed to extinction-who knows?

 

As for Mother Nature..good lord!You should face a "white" squall at sea-then you know how small you are.

[Toscano]

One must congratulate the efforts of armed forces and caving experts for their unceasing efforts to save this group of boys and their football coach .

Leaving aside that there are notices at the cave entrance warning people not to enter during the rainy season , it should be common sense to be aware of the risk of flooding in the cave . One is aware that many Thais pay little attention to officialdom or official notices but in so doing they are risking their lives . Let it be a warning to other budding cave explorers that caving is dangerous at any time , especially when there may be heavy rain .