simple1 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, zydeco said: It was America that squandered the money. If you want to know how, read my book. Title of your book? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tumama Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 More like Germany is captive of U.S. As a European, I don't understand how we view U.S as a friend and Russia as a foe. We are swamped with refugees due to U.S, not Russia. We should slap U.S with sanctions over that. Force them to end the wars, and re-settle as many refugees as we can. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sukhumvitneon Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 US: Provides defense guarantees to Europe backed by a $639 billion budget US: Perhaps you should willingly increase spending on your own militaries to protect your countries Europe: What!? We're getting ripped off by American Imperialism and Drumpf!!! The EU is pathetic. Can't close the military bases. Can't have balanced trade. America should just walk away from the whole arrangement. Merkel's pontification about East Germany and "knowing about the Soviet Union" really took the cake. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: Psychiatrists refer to this as ‘Projection’. You're referring to Trump's "captive of Russia" remark??? You sly dog.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpoint Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 28 minutes ago, zydeco said: It was America that squandered the money. If you want to know how, read my book. 20 minutes ago, simple1 said: Title of your book? "How America squandered the money" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ballpoint Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 I bow to his superior knowledge. If anyone knows about being tied down and abused by the Russians then Trump does. 2 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, buick said: i'm not against NATO's existence but it seems like the formation of the EU back in the early 90's has done some of what NATO was set up to do - mainly, avoid military conflict in europe. russia doesn't have the best reputation these days but the same can be said for the USA and other military powers (china ?). if the EU could facilitate a somewhat friendly relationship with russia, which i think is somewhat underway already, it might reduce any threat from russia. that is surely more effective than showing force by having USA military troops in europe (and they seem to get closer and closer to russia). i think it would be great if the USA closed/phased out it's military bases in europe. at some point, that should happen, i don't know if it is 5 years from now or 15, but the EU can take care of itself (or request assistance if/when needed). or maybe have 'joint' military bases for awhile as a transition. suffice to say, hosting a foreign country's military base for a century or so, seems kind of odd. at some point, the risk that was there when the base was put in is gone or significantly reduced. Sorry to say, but I don't think the European nations' collective military alone are a credible deterrent against Russia -- now or any time in the future. And that aside, the EU as a decision making body doesn't exactly have the best track record either. There's a reason, as the OP article mentions, that the Baltic states are worried about future aggression from Russia, having seen what happened to Ukraine and Crimea. All of that argues for a continued U.S. military presence in Europe, and I think most European governments would agree -- especially those geographically closest to Russia. As for European nations cultivating "friendly" relations with Russia, that's a bit hard to do when Russia is invading neighboring countries and assassinating expat citizens on foreign soil in Europe (in the latest case, being the UK). All of that has earned Russia condemnation both from EU nations and from most of the nations in the U.N. Edited July 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhumvitneon Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: There's a reason, as the OP article mentions, that the Baltic states are worried about future aggression from Russia, having seen what happened to Ukraine and Crimea. All of that argues for a continued U.S. military presence in Europe, and I think most European governments would agree -- especially those geographically closest to Russia. Nah. Their problem, not ours. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said: Again, the media fails to connect the dots as to why Trump even cares about the Baltic pipeline that feeds natural gas from Russia into Germany. It has nothing to do with US producers, as US gas must be converted to LNG and shipped, making it too expensive for the market. Does anyone recall that Trump was offered an 18% ownership in Rosneft if he lifted sanctions against Russia? Gazprom, who has the German nat gas contract, and Rosneft are vicious global market competitors, being the largest nat gas producers in Russia. Rosneft v. Gazprom Obviously, Trump still believes he can lift Russian sanctions and be rewarded with ownership in Rosneft. Now, do you understand why he wants to talk to Putin, mano-on-mano? From the Business Insider: Quote The [Steele] dossier says that during the Trump adviser Carter Page's July 2016 trip to Moscow, Igor Sechin, the CEO of the Russian state-owned energy company Rosneft, offered Page the brokerage of 19% in Rosneft in exchange for the US lifting sanctions on Russia. Page denied the allegation but later told the House Intelligence Committee that he "may have briefly" discussed the potential sale of a stake in Rosneft with Andrey Baranov, the company's head of investor relations. ... In December 2016, Rosneft signed a deal selling 19.5% of its shares to unknown buyers. The next day, Page traveled to Moscow to meet with "top managers" at Rosneft. http://www.businessinsider.com/mueller-questions-bombshell-manafort-collusion-trump-russia-investigation-2018-5 Edited July 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redline Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 6 hours ago, simple1 said: Usual insulting hyperbole and misinformation from Trump concerning US NATO contributions, deserves a slap from Merkel. Reality... Russia currently provides 40 percent of the fuel that generates 10 percent of Germany’s power, that’s 4 percent of the country’s energy production. Trump also needs to bear in mind US liquid gas is more expensive than dry gas from Russia. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-18/germany-brushes-aside-u-s-objection-to-russia-gas-pipeline-link Germany is striving for complete green energy sources, while the USA wants to move to coal ? In any case, the man child is again misinformed and looking looking me an ignorant idiot, as usual. I guess Trump never knew the history of Russia and Germany, or the USA for that matter. What a tool! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redline Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, tumama said: Sadly almost all European government think this. I think it's ridiculous. What happened in Ukraine happened after U.S meddled and supported the violent coup in Kiev. Crimea has been a part of Russia for hundreds of years and was only recently given to Ukraine by the communist Soviet Union. If Kosovo had the right to self determination, then why not Crimea? The hypocrisy is just mind boggling. I think Russia should be doing more for the rebels in eastern Ukraine. If U.S can openly fund the propaganda arm of Al-Nusra Front (a.k.a the White Helmets), and illegally bomb and station troops in Syria. Russia should be allowed to do the same thing. The sanctions against Russia are not only unfair, but it also hurts the European economy. It only serves the interests of the United States. Awe, maybe you should go help!? I’m not sure how old you are, but that’s how the world works-humans for that matter. If you want to live under the Russian model of rule, they will take you in and give you free land. I would think about it if I were you ? Edited July 12, 2018 by Redline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, tumama said: Sadly almost all European government think this. I think it's ridiculous. What happened in Ukraine happened after U.S meddled and supported the violent coup in Kiev. Crimea has been a part of Russia for hundreds of years and was only recently given to Ukraine by the communist Soviet Union. If Kosovo had the right to self determination, then why not Crimea? The hypocrisy is just mind boggling. You seem to have a blinkered view of history. As I mentioned above, Russia's invasion of a sovereign Ukraine has been condemned by most of the nations in the world, and with good reason. Quote After the breakup of the Soviet Union, Ukraine endured years of corruption, mismanagement, lack of economic growth, currency devaluation, and problems in securing funding from public markets.[38][39] Successive Ukrainian governments in the 2000s sought a closer relationship with the European Union (EU).[40][41] One of the measures meant to achieve this was an association agreement with the European Union, which would have provided Ukraine with funds in return for liberalising reforms.[42] President Yanukovych announced his intention to sign the agreement, but ultimately refused to do so at the last minute.[43] This sparked a wave of protests called the "Euromaidan" movement.[44] During these protests Yanukovych signed a treaty and multibillion-dollar loan with Russia.[44] The Ukrainian security forces cracked down on the protesters, further inflaming the situation and resulting in a series of violent clashes in the streets of Kiev.[45] As tensions rose, Yanukovych fled to Russia and did not return.[44] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution Edited July 12, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morch Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, tumama said: More like Germany is captive of U.S. As a European, I don't understand how we view U.S as a friend and Russia as a foe. We are swamped with refugees due to U.S, not Russia. We should slap U.S with sanctions over that. Force them to end the wars, and re-settle as many refugees as we can. Rubbish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, zaphod reborn said: Again, the media fails to connect the dots as to why Trump even cares about the Baltic pipeline that feeds natural gas from Russia into Germany. It has nothing to do with US producers, as US gas must be converted to LNG and shipped, making it too expensive for the market. Does anyone recall that Trump was offered an 18% ownership in Rosneft if he lifted sanctions against Russia? Gazprom, who has the German nat gas contract, and Rosneft are vicious global market competitors, being the largest nat gas producers in Russia. Rosneft v. Gazprom Obviously, Trump still believes he can lift Russian sanctions and be rewarded with ownership in Rosneft. Now, do you understand why he wants to talk to Putin, mano-on-mano? sorry dude, there is zero factual verifiable evidence of this, but keep up the good work. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mcambl61 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, tumama said: More like Germany is captive of U.S. As a European, I don't understand how we view U.S as a friend and Russia as a foe. We are swamped with refugees due to U.S, not Russia. We should slap U.S with sanctions over that. Force them to end the wars, and re-settle as many refugees as we can. wow, that is a strange look at reality. perhaps it is just time for the EU to actually step up and be an equal partner in everything 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sukhumvitneon Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, mcambl61 said: wow, that is a strange look at reality. perhaps it is just time for the EU to actually step up and be an equal partner in everything Time for the US to just leave NATO instead. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, sukhumvitneon said: Merkel's pontification about East Germany and "knowing about the Soviet Union" really took the cake. Well, as a Communist and former Stasi agent, she does. Edited July 12, 2018 by zydeco 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ELVIS123456 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, sukhumvitneon said: Time for the US to just leave NATO instead. If EU doesnt soon pay its share of the costs of NATO, that is what Trump will threaten to do. And if that doesnt work, he will start scaling down the US involvement in NATO. That the US pays more as a % of GDP than Germany or UK of France is an example of USA being far too easy in the past - a ridiculous situation that Trump is going to change. USA pays $664billion of a $918billion bill? To defend Europe?? WW2 ended when?? Russia annexed Crimea when?? NATO did what about it?? Waste of USA money - money that US taxpayers pay. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Some off topic troll and conspiracy posts have been removed, topic is not about Syria or 911 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, sukhumvitneon said: US: Provides defense guarantees to Europe backed by a $639 billion budget US: Perhaps you should willingly increase spending on your own militaries to protect your countries Europe: What!? We're getting ripped off by American Imperialism and Drumpf!!! The EU is pathetic. Can't close the military bases. Can't have balanced trade. America should just walk away from the whole arrangement. Merkel's pontification about East Germany and "knowing about the Soviet Union" really took the cake. Should get Merkel and a few of her EU sycophants and put them under Quarantine,their ignorance has infected their responsibility to pay up, 1.2% crumbs. Your piggy bank is talking back Edited July 12, 2018 by riclag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zaphod reborn Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 Quote I wrote "Again, the media fails to connect the dots as to why Trump even cares about the Baltic pipeline that feeds natural gas from Russia into Germany. It has nothing to do with US producers, as US gas must be converted to LNG and shipped, making it too expensive for the market. Does anyone recall that Trump was offered an 18% ownership in Rosneft if he lifted sanctions against Russia? Gazprom, who has the German nat gas contract, and Rosneft are vicious global market competitors, being the largest nat gas producers in Russia. Rosneft v. Gazprom Obviously, Trump still believes he can lift Russian sanctions and be rewarded with ownership in Rosneft. Now, do you understand why he wants to talk to Putin, mano-on-mano?" 34 minutes ago, mcambl61 said: sorry dude, there is zero factual verifiable evidence of this, but keep up the good work. Another blind sheep. The Trump-Rosneft deal is well documented. http://www.businessinsider.com/carter-page-trump-russia-igor-sechin-dossier-2017-1 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/business/energy-environment/exxon-russia.html 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mcambl61 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 15 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said: Another blind sheep. The Trump-Rosneft deal is well documented. http://www.businessinsider.com/carter-page-trump-russia-igor-sechin-dossier-2017-1 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/business/energy-environment/exxon-russia.html well thanks for the insult little man. another ridiculous assumption, already debunked. Carter Page is under no current prosecution...why? Because there is no evidence. He has testified already, it is laughable that an unpaid "advisor" could be offered billions. get a grip dude. But is is a FACT that the former chancellor is on the board of directors of the Russian gas company, but of course there could be no corruption there. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, mcambl61 said: well thanks for the insult little man. another ridiculous assumption, already debunked. Carter Page is under no current prosecution...why? Because there is no evidence. He has testified already, it is laughable that an unpaid "advisor" could be offered billions. get a grip dude. But is is a FACT that the former chancellor is on the board of directors of the Russian gas company, but of course there could be no corruption there. The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (ie, removal of sanctions) is just one LLC transfer away from Trump's offshore wallet. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-rosneft-privatisation-insight/how-russia-sold-its-oil-jewel-without-saying-who-bought-it-idUSKBN1582OH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said: The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow (ie, removal of sanctions) is just one LLC transfer away from Trump's offshore wallet. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-rosneft-privatisation-insight/how-russia-sold-its-oil-jewel-without-saying-who-bought-it-idUSKBN1582OH quite a large stretch and assumption, but it would seem you have already made up your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ELVIS123456 said: USA pays $664billion of a $918billion bill? To defend Europe?? WW2 ended when?? Russia annexed Crimea when?? NATO did what about it?? Waste of USA money - money that US taxpayers pay. Well, I think you just won the prize for the most ridiculous comment of this thread. Almost as ridiculous as Trump claiming other Nato members owe the US back payments. And since when was the Crimea or the Ukraine for that matter a member of NATO? Edited July 12, 2018 by bristolboy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sirineou Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 If Germany is "captive" of Russia because their energy reliance, Then what is the US to China for its reliance of financing it's debt? 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcambl61 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, sirineou said: If Germany is "captive" of Russia because their energy reliance, Then what is the US to China for its reliance of financing it's debt? I don't think it was about debt, it is about reliance on energy from one source. there is a lot of debt puzzles, very interesting: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15748696 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, mcambl61 said: I don't think it was about debt, it is about reliance on energy from one source.<snip> By now you should know Trump lies and misinforms practically every day, even in front of people during meetings who know he is lying. Germany is not reliant on one supplier / one source. Refer to charts below which identifies German energy production from natural gas was 13.2% in 2017. https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts Edited July 12, 2018 by simple1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said: If EU doesnt soon pay its share of the costs of NATO, that is what Trump will threaten to do. And if that doesnt work, he will start scaling down the US involvement in NATO. That the US pays more as a % of GDP than Germany or UK of France is an example of USA being far too easy in the past - a ridiculous situation that Trump is going to change. USA pays $664billion of a $918billion bill? To defend Europe?? WW2 ended when?? Russia annexed Crimea when?? NATO did what about it?? Waste of USA money - money that US taxpayers pay. Can you imagine if PT cut a deal with Vlad for 400 billion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, riclag said: Can you imagine if PT cut a deal with Vlad for 400 billion Alas, given that it's Donald Trump who is president, I easily can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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