Trump backs boycott of Harley Davidson in steel tariff dispute

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Curmudgeon1 said:

Imo. People pay a premium for an HD. Not because they're worth it, but because of branding.

Corporate ownership are squeezing every nickle at the cost of US jobs etc. when they're already getting premium$$.

Always a one way street.

The overseas factories were already in the mix,I believe. I hope their sales suffer... big time

Why? It makes no sense to ship such heavy (and I do mean heavy) things around the world. Assemble locally. If it's cheaper to nail together the frames locally so be it.

[Grouse]

Didn't Harley name one of their bikes after Delta Tango? Fat Bas**** or something?

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Why? It makes no sense to ship such heavy (and I do mean heavy) things around the world. Assemble locally. If it's cheaper to nail together the frames locally so be it.

Shipping costs are only a small part of the overall costs, lower labour costs and cheaper raw materials, make it financial sense to manufacture in places like Thailand and ship to the US/Europe.

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Didn't Harley name one of their bikes after Delta Tango? Fat Bas**** or something?

Seen a few orange hogs around.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Spidey

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Shipping costs are only a small part of the overall costs, lower labour costs and cheaper raw materials, make it financial sense to manufacture in places like Thailand and ship to the US/Europe.

Environmental costs? Non-tariff barriers?

[Time Traveller]

4 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Appalling behaviour. 

 

Spoilt brat resorting to absurd threats to any company or person not buying into his thinking. 

I don't follow your logic. If Harley Davidson decides to manufacture their bikes in Asia, then that doesn't help the American worker, does it? 

And last time I checked, Trump is the President of USA, not the President of Asia....his concerns should only be for Americans, not workers in other countries. The boycott seems reasonable, for his Make America Great Again effort to bring manufacturing jobs back to America....Does any other country in the world celebrate the fact that their corporations are firing workers to send jobs offshore? 

 

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Environmental costs? Non-tariff barriers?

Triumphs are built near Chonburi. Whole site is classified as a duty free zone/bonded area. No export duties to be paid, or import duties on parts/raw materials.

[HHTel]

Trump has opinions that are Matchless!

[Bluespunk]

11 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

I don't follow your logic. If Harley Davidson decides to manufacture their bikes in Asia, then that doesn't help the American worker, does it? 

And last time I checked, Trump is the President of USA, not the President of Asia....his concerns should only be for Americans, not workers in other countries. The boycott seems reasonable, for his Make America Great Again effort to bring manufacturing jobs back to America....Does any other country in the world celebrate the fact that their corporations are firing workers to send jobs offshore? 

 

He still does not have the right to threaten Harley Davidson because they do not along with his thinking. 

 

I quoted him threatening punative measures against them for doing what is best for their company. 

 

As they have every right to do. 

 

Trump is a petulant, sulky, spoilt brat who cannot take criticism or anyone going against his thinking. 

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

I don't follow your logic. If Harley Davidson decides to manufacture their bikes in Asia, then that doesn't help the American worker, does it? 

If Trump hadn't imposed tariffs, manufacturing would have remained in Milwaukee, due to the tariffs, it makes sense for Harley to move some production abroad. Also makes sense for someone wanting to buy a Harley (cheaper). 

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Triumphs are built near Chonburi. Whole site is classified as a duty free zone/bonded area. No export duties to be paid, or import duties on parts/raw materials.

Are Triumphs still made in U.K.? Are engines or other parts shipped to Thailand for final assembly? Just out of interest

[finnishmen]

not have important were HD building/making, if have cheapen LOT than now, HD have today most ower prize bike what can be all world, who buy ower prize ? only idiots. 50% and more need drop HD prize. 

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Are Triumphs still made in U.K.? Are engines or other parts shipped to Thailand for final assembly? Just out of interest

Some models made in UK, some in Thailand. Engines are assembled in Thailand but, I believe all cranks are still manufactured in UK.

 

Seems to constantly change as to which parts/ which models are made at which site.

[johnnybangkok]

It's really not that difficult to work out. Companies have a responsibility to maximise profits to ensure competitiveness in their chosen markets. This also ensures stability and continued employment for their workforce. HD are not doing this because they want to, they are doing this because The Orange Buffoons tariffs are making it a lot costlier to buy steel in the US. No tariffs - no need to ramp up production elsewhere.

HD have no responsibility to politicians but by singling them out this way as somehow 'unpatriotic' rather than HD just doing what he is forcing them to do, the Orange Buffoon is taking an active role in severely effecting their sales (perhaps to the point of bankruptcy) which cannot be in the remit of any POTUS. Surely the easier route would be to incentivise them through lower corporation tax or other incentives to keep production in the US. This smacks of double standards as he did somehow manage to find $12 billion for the farmers who were also suffering from this badly thought out trade war.

[NonthaburiBear]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Are Triumphs still made in U.K.? Are engines or other parts shipped to Thailand for final assembly? Just out of interest

Not/ Made in Thailand for Asian Market( as Vespa made in Vietnam) however  compare to the Vintage one its lost much of the details.. parts mostly down grades and actually the same as Japanese motorcycle ( Smith Speedo arent exist, rubbers ,Handgrips ) . Everything made in the 50s,60s or 70s are built to last compare to what these day manufactures are making of. But i still choose Triumph or Vincent over HD . wonder did HD ever won race or any racing competition ?

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Time Traveller said:

And I suspect you are still crying that Hilary didn't win the election.....What does global economics (globalism) have to do with it?.....use you brain, The President's role is to focus on the interests of AMERICANs....if American companies choose to enhance "bloody shareholder value" then they are not benfiting American workers, are they? Trump is the logical choice if you are opposed to globalism and seeing your job moved overseas.  

Globalism has everything to do with it. Like it or not it's a global world. No country can be an island.

American jobs go abroad. Foreign jobs come to America. Very few Japanese cars are manufactured in Japan today.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, NonthaburiBear said:

Not/ Made in Thailand for Asian Market

Nope, Triumph models made in England are exported to Thailand. Triumph models made in Thailand are exported to UK.

[NonthaburiBear]

Tramp are clever as we know . for Example : Schlumberger didnt have any oil field, hoever have many profits from Software lincese from exploration purpose.. The way Trump think are how HD can spread to the world like McDonalds does..

cheap as Chips and burn with expensive parts or after warranty sales.

 

just my 2 cents

[Time Traveller]

31 minutes ago, Spidey said:

If Trump hadn't imposed tariffs, manufacturing would have remained in Milwaukee, due to the tariffs, it makes sense for Harley to move some production abroad. Also makes sense for someone wanting to buy a Harley (cheaper). 

I don't know if that's true. Any tariff system, to work effectively, would need to be consistent.

What this means is that any tariffs on raw materials - eg. Steel, would also need to have the same tariffs on manufactured steel products - e.g auto's and HD bikes as well.

So, any advantage they have of moving to a low steel cost country, they (HD) would still lose out when they import the foreign made bikes into the US. They only advantage would be their foreign (non- US ) sales.

 

[NonthaburiBear]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Nope, Triumph models made in England are exported to Thailand. Triumph models made in Thailand are exported to UK.

really ? Knock Down? btw  Lambretta use to export scooter to India in 50s and 60s as knockdown due to government regulation .

[Spidey]

Just now, NonthaburiBear said:

Tramp are clever as we know . for Example : Schlumberger didnt have any oil field, hoever have many profits from Software lincese from exploration purpose.. The way Trump think are how HD can spread to the world like McDonalds does..

cheap as Chips and burn with expensive parts or after warranty sales.

 

just my 2 cents

Everyone likes McDonalds. No one likes Harleys, they're just not great bikes. Owned a Buell briefly, pile of junk.

[Spidey]

Just now, NonthaburiBear said:

really ? Knock Down? btw  Lambretta use to export scooter to India in 50s and 60s as knockdown due to government regulation .

Really.

[Time Traveller]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Globalism has everything to do with it. Like it or not it's a global world. No country can be an island.

American jobs go abroad. Foreign jobs come to America. Very few Japanese cars are manufactured in Japan today.

Look, I'm not arguing against what you are saying. I'm just saying if you want manufacturing jobs in your own country, then the only way to do it, is what Trump is doing. I do not agree that it's the best course of action for the economy, but it's the logical way to do it, to avoid jobs going to the lowest cost country. It's the opposite of what globalism is.

Ironically, it's the same people criticising Trump, are mostly the same people opposed to globalism and corporations exploiting cheap 3rd world labor.

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Time Traveller

[Spidey]

Just now, Time Traveller said:

Look, I'm not arguing against what you are saying. I'm just saying if you want manufacturing jobs in your own country, then the only way to do it, is what Trump is doing. I do not agree that it's the best course of action for the economy, but it's the logical way to do it, to avoid jobs going to the lowest cost country. It's the opposite of what globalism is. 

 

You can't have your cake and eat it. Either all jobs/ produce stay in America and no jobs come to America or you have a free market. Having a trade war will result in a nett loss of jobs in the US.

[johnnybangkok]

7 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

And I suspect you are still crying that Hilary didn't win the election.....

Look bro, I totally understand the Adam Smith argument about benefits of international trade v. mercantilism, but what does global economics (globalism) have to do with this?.....use your brain, The President's role is to focus on the interests of AMERICANs....if American companies choose to enhance "bloody shareholder value" by sending jobs to Asia, then they are not benefiting American workers, are they? Trump is the logical choice if you are opposed to globalism and seeing your job moved overseas.  

Global economics has everything to do with this. Companies like HD trade to a worldwide market so obviously they become less competitive when their production costs increase and it's got to be particularly galling when that increase in costs come from the actions of your own President.

POTUS role is indeed to focus on 'the interests of America' so by your own logic how can this frankly stupid trade war be in the interest of Americans? So far HD and other manufacturers are suffering and with a $12 billion subsidy to the farmers (who somehow get different treatment than HD), they too are obviously suffering.

The role of POTUS should be to help US manufacturers not add $100 million to their bottom line.

And if The Orange Buffoon is ' the logical choice if you are opposed to globalism and seeing your job moved overseas', shouldn't he be leading by example by getting all of his own manufacturing immediately changed from the overseas manufacturing that he currently does? A small example of his hypocrisy include:

 

- A "Trump National Golf Club" blue cotton cap sold at Trump Tower was manufactured in Bangladesh.

- The ties in his apparel collection have been made in Indonesia, Vietnam, and China.

- Some of the suits in his Donald J. Trump Signature Collection are made in Mexico.

- A trademark registration shows products in the Trump Home collection such as bookcases, picture frames, and wardrobes were made in India.

- Pens, towels, and bathrobes at Trump hotels are made in China.

- The Trump Home's mirrors and chandeliers are manufactured in China.

- Components for furniture piece such as beds and dining tables in the Trump by Dorya line were made in Germany and Turkey.

.

     

[Time Traveller]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You can't have your cake and eat it. Either all jobs/ produce stay in America and no jobs come to America or you have a free market. Having a trade war will result in a nett loss of jobs in the US.

You will understand better if you read Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. It's explains the difference between Free Trade against Mercantilism (i.e tariffs). Each has certain advantages. 

 

The 2 major issues in the World's largest economy over the last couple of decades is the Trade Deficit and the loss of American jobs to Asia. I think everyone, on both sides of politics can agree on that issue. Trump's policy of tariffs seeks to address both of these issues. Clearly, it's not going to help everyone is it? .....But it is the logical attempt to balance the one way trade deficit with China, and encourage employing Americans in jobs that otherwise would be held by foreigners.

 

Now, you may hate that, and love seeing American jobs go to Asia, and corporations making larger profits, while the trade deficit grows exponentially. But you can't deny what Trump is doing is logical.

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Time Traveller

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Time Traveller said:

You will understand better if you read Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. It's explains the difference between Free Trade against Mercantilism (i.e tariffs). Each has certain advantages. 

 

A lot has changed since the 1700's. No such thing as the global economy then.

 

Pity you guys didn't read it before you dumped our best Darjeeling into the Hudson river because you didn't want to pay a fair and reasonable tax, your first attempt at isolationism.

 

That didn't end well, did it?

[transam]

I think McDonald's are safe...

[Spidey]

Just now, transam said:

I think McDonald's are safe...

True, but don't expect me to be grateful. It wouldn't be the first Big Mac that I've thrown in the river. ?

[yougivemebaby]

It’s funny to listen to all the ignorant sheeple following the lead of the anti Trump American media. Must be mostly old angry Europeans that follow the lead of bitter Merkel who is completely destroying all of Europe with her open door policy. 

Edit: people also don’t fully understand the motives behind the tariffs either. Most haven’t done their reasearch. Most imported steel originates from China in the first place. America (or most countries) doesn’t want low quality Chinese steel. So places like Canada would import Chinese steel into Canada and put their label on it selling it as Canadian steel. Lower quality. Lowery cost. High profits scamming American companies and government. Many places were doing this and trump put a stop to it. American steel is much better quality and benefits all Americans. 

Edited August 13, 2018 by yougivemebaby