Off topic deflection posts and the replies have been removed. 

23 hours ago, Spidey said:

Triumph employ more workers in Thailand than they do in the UK. It's the future for automotive production.

 

When I was a youngster the 2 iconic US brands were Harley Davidson and Levis.

 

Levis haven't produced a single pair of jeans in the US for a good number of years. US market Levis manufactured in Mexico. Several countries manufacture Levis for the European market, primarily Turkey.

 

Oh the irony that corporate globalism creates.

Maybe Levis are next on the hit list ?  But honestly , if all manufacturing is moved away from the USA to a third world country because of increased profits what will become of a non producing USA without industries ?  There would be massive unemployment and huge benefit claims on the government . Trump is trying to protect the US economy and not behaving like his predecessors , hence the strong dollar . For certain he has his critics but they are overshadowed by his many supporters . 

The Harley is an American icon , like it or not , and cannot see it disappearing any time soon .      

1 minute ago, superal said:

Maybe Levis are next on the hit list ?  But honestly , if all manufacturing is moved away from the USA to a third world country because of increased profits what will become of a non producing USA without industries ?  There would be massive unemployment and huge benefit claims on the government . Trump is trying to protect the US economy and not behaving like his predecessors , hence the strong dollar . For certain he has his critics but they are overshadowed by his many supporters . 

The Harley is an American icon , like it or not , and cannot see it disappearing any time soon .      

Under Margaret Thatcher, most British manufacturing industries moved abroad. Britain adapted to become a service based economy.

 

I agree that a president who fought to protect US manufacturing would be a good thing, Trump is doing the opposite. HD is a prime example. Impose ridiculous trade tariffs and US manufacturing will move abroad. 

 

Manufacturing industries aren't charities, they will do whatever it takes to maximise profits. No sentimentality in business.

On 8/13/2018 at 7:16 AM, Bluespunk said:

Appalling behaviour. 

 

Spoilt brat resorting to absurd threats to any company or person not buying into his thinking. 

 

Trump has the right to his own opinion just as anyone else does. If you don't want to support a business because you feel they sold out and moved to another country then you have every right to choose to not support them. The real spoiled brats are the ones who get upset because others don't always fall in line with their way of thinking. 

3 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

 

Trump has the right to his own opinion just as anyone else does. If you don't want to support a business because you feel they sold out and moved to another country then you have every right to choose to not support them. The real spoiled brats are the ones who get upset because others don't always fall in line with their way of thinking. 

So it's ok for the POTUS to throw an iconic US business under the bus...…...just like he does with his friends/family? 

 

Can somebody please put his toys back in the pram before he does any more damage?

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Spidey

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

So it's ok for the POTUS to throw an iconic US business under the bus...…...just like he does with his friends/family? 

 

If Harley Davidson is such the "US icon" as you say then you really think that no one is going to criticize them for shutting down and taking this US icon and jobs out of the country and setting up in Thailand? Then people want to blame Trump. Laughable. 

7 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

 

Trump has the right to his own opinion just as anyone else does. If you don't want to support a business because you feel they sold out and moved to another country then you have every right to choose to not support them. The real spoiled brats are the ones who get upset because others don't always fall in line with their way of thinking. 

And others have the right to mock him and point out the stupidity of his comments. You got a problem with that?  I somehow doubt that the American workers at Harley are going to be grateful to Trump. His actions may lead to some of them being unemployed. Not only because he called for a boycott of HD, but because he increased the cost of manufacture thanks to tariffs. Way to go, POTUS!

11 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

 

Trump has the right to his own opinion just as anyone else does. If you don't want to support a business because you feel they sold out and moved to another country then you have every right to choose to not support them. The real spoiled brats are the ones who get upset because others don't always fall in line with their way of thinking. 

He has the right to an opinion. 

 

He should, however, not be issuing absurd threats against a company, that does what is best for them, just because they do not buy into his thinking. 

 

Which is what he was doing in the quote I posted. 

 

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Bluespunk

Just now, vinegarbase said:

 

If Harley Davidson is such the "US icon" as you say then you really think that no one is going to criticize them for shutting down and taking this US icon and jobs out of the country and setting up in Thailand? Then people want to blame Trump. Laughable. 

Well it was Trump that criticised them and urged people to boycott them. Or was it Crooked Hillary putting words in his mouth again?

2 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

 

If Harley Davidson is such the "US icon" as you say then you really think that no one is going to criticize them for shutting down and taking this US icon and jobs out of the country and setting up in Thailand? Then people want to blame Trump. Laughable. 

Can you point out a news report that said HD was being shut down in the USA? Because I can point out news reports that say Trump's tariffs on steel and aluminium have increased the cost of making a motorcycle.

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And others have the right to mock him and point out the stupidity of his comments. You got a problem with that?  I somehow doubt that the American workers at Harley are going to be grateful to Trump. His actions may lead to some of them being unemployed. Not only because he called for a boycott of HD, but because he increased the cost of manufacture thanks to tariffs. Way to go, POTUS!

 

Not at all, you can say whatever you want, why should I care about your own personal opinion? People have the right to criticize all they want just like I have the right to respond with a criticism or my own support for Trump. You got a problem with that?

 

MAGA Trump!

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by vinegarbase

15 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Under Margaret Thatcher, most British manufacturing industries moved abroad. Britain adapted to become a service based economy.

 

I agree that a president who fought to protect US manufacturing would be a good thing, Trump is doing the opposite. HD is a prime example. Impose ridiculous trade tariffs and US manufacturing will move abroad. 

 

Manufacturing industries aren't charities, they will do whatever it takes to maximise profits. No sentimentality in business.

You would like to think and hope that Trump and advisers had thought this trade war through to its conclusion . I can only assume that he holds the ace card because of the mass of businesses and consumers within the US and possible defecting countries from the European gang ( when it happens ) . I can see his next step to the US nation being   " Buy USA manufactured products only " . He is determined to fulfill his election promises of making America great again .   

2 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

 

Not at all, you can say whatever you want, why should I care about your own personal opinion? People have the right to criticize all they want just like I have the right to respond with a criticism or my own support for Trump. You got a problem with that?

 

MAGA Trump!

But no one was denying Trump's right to say it in the first place. Just pointing out the stupidity of it. So why belabor a point that wasn't even in contention.

I will say though that the final sentence in your latest post ought to be respected no less than are those of this POTUS.

Just now, superal said:

You would like to think and hope that Trump and advisers had thought this trade war through to its conclusion . I can only assume that he holds the ace card because of the mass of businesses and consumers within the US and possible defecting countries from the European gang ( when it happens ) . I can see his next step to the US nation being   " Buy USA manufactured products only " . He is determined to fulfill his election promises of making America great again .   

There was a huge campaign in the UK many years ago, "Buy British". Most people supported the campaign but very few bought British. People say one thing and do another. Shoppers tend to buy with their brains not their hearts. They buy what is best and, more importantly, cheapest.

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Can you point out a news report that said HD was being shut down in the USA? Because I can point out news reports that say Trump's tariffs on steel and aluminium have increased the cost of making a motorcycle.

There were many reports about the Kansas City plant being closed and soon after HD announces they are opening a plant in Thailand. Harley Davidson said it was not meant to outsource jobs but to avoid taxes and tariffs because they wanted to increase their international business. 

 

It's so ironic, the world cries about the US increasing tariffs but HD themselves admitted that it is because of other countries tariffs that is forcing them to manufacture in country to avoid them. This is exactly what Trump is doing. He is raising tariffs in order to start bringing back businesses in jobs to America because it will cost too much to import from foreign countries. Good for Trump, short term pain, long term benefit. 

Just now, Spidey said:

He is determined to fulfill his election promises of making America great again .  

He never had intention of fulfilling this promise. His promise to himself was "Make Trump Great Again". His businesses were failing badly and he saw the role of POTUS as an opportunity to shore them up. He's doing quite well on this promise, but not as well as he'd hoped.

4 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

There were many reports about the Kansas City plant being closed and soon after HD announces they are opening a plant in Thailand. Harley Davidson said it was not meant to outsource jobs but to avoid taxes and tariffs because they wanted to increase their international business. 

 

It's so ironic, the world cries about the US increasing tariffs but HD themselves admitted that it is because of other countries tariffs that is forcing them to manufacture in country to avoid them. This is exactly what Trump is doing. He is raising tariffs in order to start bringing back businesses in jobs to America because it will cost too much to import from foreign countries. Good for Trump, short term pain, long term benefit. 

Are you aware that the Europeans imposed those tariffs in response to the tariffs that Trump imposed? 

 

And Harley Davidson shutting down their Kansas City plant does not mean the same thing as Harley Davidson "shutting down and taking this US icon and jobs out of the country".

 

8 minutes ago, Spidey said:

He never had intention of fulfilling this promise. His promise to himself was "Make Trump Great Again". His businesses were failing badly and he saw the role of POTUS as an opportunity to shore them up. He's doing quite well on this promise, but not as well as he'd hoped.

If that was his motive it would have been exposed by now and dealt with . H.Clinton and supporters are bad losers , they are trying everything to bring Trump down but unsuccessfully . D.T is a bit like marmite , like or dislike but difficult to argue that he is a strong character and out of a different mold .  He no longer wants to have America seen as an easy touch and thus the reformation .

I've been riding for 4 decades. I've always owned Japanese bikes because I thought they were better. I used to live in Calgary, Canada, which had a large HD store. Every summer HD would have a open drive weekend. All you had to do was show up with a bike license, helmet and leather jacket of some sort and you could sign up and take any HD model for a long drive - follow the leader style. It was about a 20 minute drive through a neighbourhood onto a highway and back around through the 'hood to the dealership. You could do this as many times as you wanted. Just keep signing your name beside a different model.

 

I rode every model they had. Nice bikes but none were worth $20,000 + more than my Kawasaki Vulcan.

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Are you aware that the Europeans imposed those tariffs in response to the tariffs that Trump imposed? 

 

And Harley Davidson shutting down their Kansas City plant does not mean the same thing as Harley Davidson "shutting down and taking this US icon and jobs out of the country".

 

Yes that is right. The tariffs were raised in the EU and HD as a company had a choice to make in which they sold out the USA for what they believe is more profit in Europe. 

5 minutes ago, vinegarbase said:

There were many reports about the Kansas City plant being closed and soon after HD announces they are opening a plant in Thailand. Harley Davidson said it was not meant to outsource jobs but to avoid taxes and tariffs because they wanted to increase their international business. 

 

It's so ironic, the world cries about the US increasing tariffs but HD themselves admitted that it is because of other countries tariffs that is forcing them to manufacture in country to avoid them. This is exactly what Trump is doing. He is raising tariffs in order to start bringing back businesses in jobs to America because it will cost too much to import from foreign countries. Good for Trump, short term pain, long term benefit. 

HD said they would NOT BUILD a plant in Thailand if the USA signed onto TPP. There would be no need to because the existing tariffs of the participating TPP countries would be suspended. HD bikes could be then imported into those countries with no import tariffs. That would not include Thailand but would others like Austrialia, N.Z., Japan, Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam. When Trump won and declined to sign on to TPP HD pulled the trigger on the Rayong plant. So Trump is the reason HD was not able to increase it's market share in the TPP countries which would have expanded production in its American plants and instead had to close K.C. and build a plant in Thailand. Trump completely put the screws to HD and is now blaming it for the effect of his decision. But the dimwits continue to drink the kool-aid.

On 8/13/2018 at 12:16 PM, Tradewind777 said:

The redneck Harley riders now conflicted are going to be facing a big decision. Their hero clown in Washington is now telling them to boycott Harley. Which if his argument is to hold out, they must stop riding bikes and buy American cars instead because he forgot one small point in one of his regular moments of lunacy: Harley Davidson has no American competitors! So if they want to follow his line (and keep riding bikes), maybe they will buy a Honda Gold Wing instead. Is this buffoon all America can produce as a “leader”?

What an ignorant buffoon you are. All HD riders are rednecks?

Trump didnt tell them anything - he agreed to support them doing what they said they would do! 

There are competitor's bikes to HDs - Indians (Polaris) and Victory for a start! And Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki all have 'cruisers' !   

The only moment of lunacy was yours when deciding to spew the rubbish you did.  

 

The reality of this situation is that HD sales fell by $50Million last year.  Biggest fall was in Asia when HD wouldnt drop their prices like their competitors did and now they cant justify their extra prices there anymore.  In the US their sales also dropped and that is because of two things: 1. Indian and Victory are succfessfully competing against them in their traditional markets, and the Japanese are offering better and cheaper cruisers that is kicking them out of that end of the market.  HD has been planning for years to build in Thailand so they can offer their bikes to the Asian market at a lower cost. HD are in trouble and they can blame Trump all they like - but they caused their problems themselves through failing to change.

 

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 10:51 AM, JAG said:

Norton Trumps watch anyway...

 

Although I will allow that it is a Bonnie idea!

 

I'll quit now, whilst in front - which isn't much of a boast as the bloke behind is riding a Hartley.

Can't better those comments , Matchless.

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

There was a huge campaign in the UK many years ago, "Buy British". Most people supported the campaign but very few bought British. People say one thing and do another. Shoppers tend to buy with their brains not their hearts. They buy what is best and, more importantly, cheapest.

Exactly , US products will be cheaper as they will not carry the imported tariffs .

Fat Boy says no to Fat Boy

2 hours ago, vinegarbase said:

The real spoiled brats are the ones who get upset because others don't always fall in line with their way of thinking. 

You mean just like the man-child that you support?

56 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

What an ignorant buffoon you are. All HD riders are rednecks?

Trump didnt tell them anything - he agreed to support them doing what they said they would do! 

There are competitor's bikes to HDs - Indians (Polaris) and Victory for a start! And Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki all have 'cruisers' !   

The only moment of lunacy was yours when deciding to spew the rubbish you did.  

 

The reality of this situation is that HD sales fell by $50Million last year.  Biggest fall was in Asia when HD wouldnt drop their prices like their competitors did and now they cant justify their extra prices there anymore.  In the US their sales also dropped and that is because of two things: 1. Indian and Victory are succfessfully competing against them in their traditional markets, and the Japanese are offering better and cheaper cruisers that is kicking them out of that end of the market.  HD has been planning for years to build in Thailand so they can offer their bikes to the Asian market at a lower cost. HD are in trouble and they can blame Trump all they like - but they caused their problems themselves through failing to change.

 

Victory went out of production in January, 2017. Its parent company Polaris now only builds the Indian.

Just another stupid action by DT..........

"Look, Donald, I don't care if you are the President.  Next time we go for a ride it's your turn to be the bitch".

3 hours ago, vinegarbase said:

Yes that is right. The tariffs were raised in the EU and HD as a company had a choice to make in which they sold out the USA for what they believe is more profit in Europe. 

You do realize that the market for HD  in the USA is well over-saturated, right?

 

Beginning with the big push around their 2003 100 yr anniversary and since they have basically sold a Harley to every US citizen who wanted one. 

 

Without expanding globally they were close to done. That would have been much worse for US jobs.

Edited August 14, 20187 yr by mikebike