Muslum Schools In South

[Boon Mee]

The author was writing for the Christian Science Monitor; an unbiased publication.

Islamist schools are blamed for bloody uprising in Thailand

By John R Bradley in Pattani

15 May 2004

Hidden a few kilometres down a remote country lane in the heart of Thailand's troubled deep south - where a Muslim separatist uprising has left more than 200 dead this year - is the multi-million-dollar new campus of the Yala Islamic College.

With more than a dozen Arab teachers from across the Middle East and a seemingly endless flow of funds from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait, Yala has become the most obvious manifestation of what critics here say is an "Arab threat" to the traditionally moderate and tolerant local Islamic tradition. It was first brought home in 2002 when two dozen Middle Eastern suspects were arrested in the south for forging travel documents, visas and passports for al-Qa'ida operatives.

The south's largely unregistered Islamic schools - which offer religious education, a regular curriculum and training in Arabic and the local Yawi dialect - are accused by the government of being breeding grounds for radical separatists. The Islamic faith in Thailand, like Buddhism, has always been seen as being integrated with many other beliefs and practices, but the foreign-returned Muslims are insisting on a "purer" form of Islam.

A number of the Muslim separatists killed on 28 April, when more than 100 Islamists were gunned down on their motorbikes by soldiers acting on a tip off about a planned series of raids on army posts across the south, taught at local Islamic schools. Radical Thai Muslims have also targeted government-run secular schools, with nearly 100 this year alone being burned to the ground.

Last week a Bangkok court issued an arrest warrant for a Muslim teacher accused of organising the worst separatist attacks - proof, say critics, that many Muslim Thai teachers who went overseas to Islamic schools must have come under the influence of hardliners.

The Buddhist minority in the south are circulating pamphlets detailing alleged local Muslim extremism, saying it poses an unprecedented threat both to their religion and the state. One senior Thai government official in Pattani said that he was aware of the first signs of "ethnic cleansing" in Narathiwat, one of the south's Muslim-majority provinces. "Some Thai Buddhist families have been told to leave under the threat of violence," he said on condition he not be further identified.

The Deputy Prime Minister, General Thamarak Isarangura, has said the Thai government believes there are military training sites in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Egypt where Thai Muslim separatists are trained to execute terror attacks. More than 160 Thai Muslims students are enrolled in Islamic institutions in Saudi Arabia, and 1,500 in Egypt.

Yala Islamic College is run by Dr Ismail Lutfi, a Thai graduate of the hardline Wahhabi Imam Muhammad Ibn Saud Islamic University in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. He has an estimated 8,000 followers in key Islamic posts throughout the south, and the 1,500 students at the college are taught a hardcore Wahhabi interpretation of Islamic law in the Arabic language.

"I am against violence and I am against extremism," Dr Lutfi said in flawless Arabic in an interview at the college this week. "However, I do not consider telling the local Muslims that they should go to the mosque and pray five times a day extremism," he added.

Thai Muslim complaints of discrimination in jobs and education - along with the economic neglect of the south - have provided fodder for various separatist movements since the provinces here, once part of the Muslim kingdom of Pattani, were annexed by Thailand in 1902. Their quest for an autonomous homeland has been rekindled partly because the Iraq war and Israel's violent suppression of the Palestinian intifada, but new visa restrictions on Muslims have also had a radicalising effect.

The upsurge in violence is proving difficult to control largely because it comes after Bangkok effectively dismantled its intelligence apparatus in the area and scaled down its military presence, thinking it had all but crushed the separatist movement in the late 1990s.

Local resentments, which radicals from outside are trying to exploit by linking them to a wider Islamic struggle, have become more intense. There is the alleged underlying hand in the recent violence of local military and police officials, each vying with the other (and local separatists, who frequently double as criminals) for control of arms- and drug-smuggling rings. And there are almost continuous reports of false arrests and torture.

After the Islamists killed on 28 April were shown on television wearing green Hamas-style headbands and other clothes with Islamic slogans emblazoned on them, the government conceded it was facing a complex separatist threat. One killed militant had stitched into the back of his jacket the letters JI - an assumed reference to Indonesian-based terrorist group Jummah Islamiya (JI), which seeks to establish a pan-South-east Asian Islamic state from southern Thailand through Malaysia and Singapore and across Indonesia into the southern Philippines.

Numerous regional leaders from JI, al-Qa'ida and the Free Aceh Movement are known to have spent time in southern Thailand since the attacks on New York on 11 September 2001.

Neighbouring countries, many battling their own Islamist insurgencies, fear that calls for revenge over alleged Thai army heavy-handedness in the ongoing crackdown could provide the excuse JI and other regional terrorist networks need to broaden their ties to local Thai separatist groupings.

Independent estimates already put JI membership in southern Thailand as high as 10,000, and the Thai military says that it is hunting down at least 5,000 armed separatists.

The success of the military operation against those calling for jihad ultimately depends on closer co-operation from neighbouring Malaysia. Bangkok is urging Malaysia to withdraw the right from about 30,000 Thais who hold dual citizenship. 19 May 2004 04:10

[sonthaya]

I don't think it's the Muslim schools who are to blame for the problems in the South, it's the Muslim fanatics who can't accept a civilized way of living.

The vast majority of muslims are kind and gentle people, I lived with them for 30 years in the Middle East.

[Yohan]

The author was writing for the Christian Science Monitor; an unbiased publication.

.....

the multi-million-dollar new campus of the Yala Islamic College

.....

With more than a dozen Arab teachers from across the Middle East and a seemingly endless flow of funds from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait, Yala has become the most obvious manifestation of what critics here say is an "Arab threat" to the traditionally moderate and tolerant local Islamic tradition.

.....

Yala Islamic College is run by Dr Ismail Lutfi, a Thai graduate of the hardline Wahhabi Imam Muhammad Ibn Saud Islamic University in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. He has an estimated 8,000 followers in key Islamic posts throughout the south, and the 1,500 students at the college are taught a hardcore Wahhabi interpretation of Islamic law in the Arabic language.

.....

Thai Muslim complaints of discrimination in jobs and education -

.....

Bangkok is urging Malaysia to withdraw the right from about 30,000 Thais who hold dual citizenship.

This report is NOT unbiased, as it is using Christianity as a principle, but it contains many true aspects.

This is my opinion about South Thailand and this report:

1-

If some rich and militant Arabs are opening an unregistered multi-million dollar Islamic school in South Thailand and are an *Arab Threat* for moderate and tolerant local Thai Muslims, then this *school* must be closed quickly and all these *teachers* must be kicked out of the country by the Thai government.

A questionable multi-million-dollar investment should be not a reason to keep such people in Thailand....

2-

Thai-Muslims have good reasons to complain, and Thai government should do something about....

To remove all radical elements first of all - especially those, who are not even Thai nationals - might be a good beginning and it will help moderate Thai-Muslims in their argumentations with their own people there.

3-

Why should Malaysia withdraw the Malaysian citizenship of ethnic Malay Muslim people? Because they are living in Thailand?

What about to withdraw the Thai citizenship of some militant local Thai-Muslims and send them to Malaysia? They are anyway sometimes on this side, and sometimes on the other side of the border.

4-

It might be legally acceptable by Thailand security laws to force this Mr. Ismail in Yala, who is a Thai citizen, to teach more useful subjects in his college, like economics in Thai and English, and should he fail to do so, he might go into exil to Saudi Arabia...(or directly into a Thai prison)

5-

I am against any RADICALS, radical Muslims or radical Arabs or whoever, who are radicals....

I am very open-minded and well informed about the Thai Muslim problems in South Thailand, and I think, to remove ANY radical element PERMANENTLY out of that region is urgently required.

Johann

[Yohan]

I don't think it's the Muslim schools who are to blame for the problems in the South, it's the Muslim fanatics who can't accept a civilized way of living.

The vast majority of muslims are kind and gentle people, I lived with them for 30 years in the Middle East.

As you correctly said, the problem is Muslim fanatics...radical Muslims....

and such people must be removed from South Thailand .....

If there are foreigners involved, like radical Arabs, teaching hardliner Islam, then they must be arrested and deported....

Johann

[Boon Mee]

Well, this Dr. Lutfi is an extremist as the Wahhabi sect, by definition, is extremism.

Clitorectomys for girls, stoning, cutting off hands and fingers for criminals. Sounds pretty extreme to me!

[Yohan]

Well, this Dr. Lutfi is an extremist as the Wahhabi sect, by definition, is extremism.

Clitorectomys for girls, stoning, cutting off hands and fingers for criminals. Sounds pretty extreme to me!

As I said, 2 ways to deal with such a person....

Exil in Saudi Arabia, no way to return to Thailand....

or a life-sentence in a Thai prison...

Johann

[Boon Mee]

Let's see if Taksin's up to the job! It may be a PR nightmare but things would settle down for a while in the south if the evil Dr. was outa there...

[Yohan]

1-

To remove foreign nationals, who are teaching militant Islamic faith in Thailand should be a priority for the Thai government. They should be deported quickly.

2-

Dual citizenship radical Thai-Muslims with a criminal record should be expelled to Malaysia and the Thai citizenship should be nullified.

3-

If a Thai is a Muslim and is spreading religious radical propaganda, then you have to bring him behind bars or to ask him to leave Thailand forever and to go to exil in an Islamic country.

The Koran itself is very similar to the contents of the Thora of the Jews and the Christian Bible....over 90 percent basically the same...

All what is written in such old religious books, you can turn its meaning in this or that way....

Arab customs are not Malay customs. Their cultures are totally different.

Islam is a religion, which is often misused by such radical elements, who are using it to justify all their criminal actions done in the name of God.

It would be good for the image of the Thai government to clean up with any radical people...it is much better so solve these problems from the root, and not to shoot over 100 totally misguided, low educated fanatic young men, who are getting wild and who are feeling they die for something better in a Holy War...

Johann

[Up2U]

Let Thaksin do what Gaddafi does in Libya - every Muslim 'freedom fighter' that returns from training abroad is met at the airport by security people and never seen again.

Despite being a state where Islam is the recognised religion of 99.9% of the population, he has no problems in that direction. He has survived many attempts on his life from American-sponsored 'patriotic' groups, however.

[Yohan]

Let Thaksin do what Gaddafi does in Libya - every Muslim 'freedom fighter' that returns from training abroad is met at the airport by security people and never seen again.

Despite being a state where Islam is the recognised religion of 99.9% of the population, he has no problems in that direction. He has survived many attempts on his life from American-sponsored 'patriotic' groups, however.

I do not think, it is possible to compare Thaksin of Thailand with Muammar Abu Minyar al-QADHAFI of Libya.

A funny view of this problem....

Johann

[Basher]

I am a bit upset that no one has stopped thisthread or removed it and banned Boon mee for using a swear word in the title and text,....

Oh yeah I forgot he is one of the privilaged sepppos... can say what he wants with no retribution

Bash

[Yohan]

I am a bit upset that no one has stopped this thread ......

I do not see anything wrong with this thread, which is addressing some urgent and serious problems in South Thailand....

Johann

[sonthaya]

There is nothing wrong with this thread, it's very much related to Thailand.

[Boon Mee]

I am a bit upset that no one has stopped thisthread or removed it and banned Boon mee for using a swear word in the title and text,....

Oh yeah I forgot he is one of the privilaged sepppos... can say what he wants with no retribution

Bash

Bash,

What swear words? Privileged seppo? You're just pissed that I haven't been banned yet! Been skating pretty close to the edge tho. Just have to know how to "finese" your words!

[Basher]

Quote

title and text,....

yes you privilaged seppos.. and don't kid yourself it is skating close to the edge, you can say what you want mate so long as you aint colonialist you are in the 'in' crowd

carry on, keep up the good work,

Bash

[Yohan]

Quote

title and text,....

yes you privilaged seppos.. and don't kid yourself it is skating close to the edge, you can say what you want mate so long as you aint colonialist you are in the 'in' crowd

carry on, keep up the good work,

Bash

To produce such a posting I think, it is mandatory to be fully drunken.......

This posting should be pinned as an unique example how funny it is to read the thaivisa-forum topics....

Johann

[Basher]

Quote

title and text,....

yes you privilaged seppos.. and don't kid yourself it is skating close to the edge, you can say what you want mate so long as you aint colonialist you are in the 'in' crowd

carry on, keep up the good work,

Bash

To produce such a posting I think, it is mandatory to be fully drunken.......

This posting should be pinned as an unique example how funny it is to read the thaivisa-forum topics....

Johann

Like anyone listens to your ramblings

For the record

Not drunk

Not American

Been banned

still can't workout why

Not American again

still more interesting than you Johan

Bash

[Boon Mee]

Bash, don't feel picked on, man. Not too long ago, us septics were the ones getting reamed here. Maybe it's just your turn in the barrel?

[Basher]

Actually I don't feel picked on, as I was not alone...

And especially as the preferences were directed towards mental cases??

Anyway I am just pointing out injustice bit like Batman or Superman but without the Gay clothes...

Bet you have a batman suit though Boony.... cum on let us know... maybe PJs?

Bash

PS Hang on I just thought of a Basherman suit....

[Boon Mee]

I don't even have a Halloween Costume but if I did it would look something like the Gent!

[Basher]

Riiiiiiight

so back to the original thread content....

I say..

Spend more money, re-educate the poor, show them that earning money helps their lives much more than listening to a few mental Mullahs who aint getting any rumpy pumpy...

Kids listen up, money aint what it is all about but it makes it all a little easier to get on with, Bombing folk don't get anyone a meal, get out there and work boys and girls, and start to think for your selves

bash

[Boon Mee]

Absolutely, Bash, and nobody would have a problem with those schools in the south if they would stick to teaching non-violent behavior and not hate. The problem is Muslims get taught that anyone who is not a Muslim is a candidate for jihad. Definetly not a religion of peace...

[Yohan]

The problem is Muslims get taught that anyone who is not a Muslim is a candidate for jihad.  Definetly not a religion of peace...

1- It is not true that Islam considers anybody, who is not a Moslem to be a candidate for Holy War.....

Even Iranian hardline Mullahs will confirm you that they are accepting Christianity and there are in fact Christian minority groups (of the orthodox East Church) living in Iran.

There are Islamic countries, with the majority followers of Islam, and other religions are accepted, too.... Not so few... look to Morocco, Tunesia, Egypt, Turkey, Malaysia.....

2- It is permitted for a Muslim, to marry a Christian woman, and she is not forced to convert to Islam.....how can the own wife be a candidate for jihad?

3- In the past, Buddhism did not prove to be a religion of respect and tolerance and non-aggression.

This is especially true in South Thailand, where the Thai Buddhists over centuries were attacking the Malay Muslims.

Johann

[GuestHouse]

Might I suggest that if anyone wants an inside view of the Muslim World and the possbile causes of Muslim extremism they read

"The Trouble With Islam" by Irshad Manji ISBN 0-312-32699-8

She puts the case that the Islam faith has been hijacked by the Mullahs and provides plenty of historical evidence to demonstate her point.

Yohan,

To understand the light in which Islam views Christianity, read 'The Pact of Umar" forced on Christians at the point of a sword during the hight of the Muslim empire it defines the basis of what many Muslims regards as Christian rights in the Muslim world.

[Basher]

Might I suggest that if anyone wants an inside view of the Muslim World and the possbile causes of Muslim extremism they read

"The Trouble With Islam" by Irshad Manji ISBN 0-312-32699-8

She puts the case that the Islam faith has been hijacked by the Mullahs and provides plenty of historical evidence to demonstate her point.

Excellent post, great book and the reason for all the troubles, Guesthouse has ended the thread as far as i can see and on the right note

Bash

[meadish_sweetball]

What about the <deleted> Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, 30 years war?!? Islam is not the only violent religion.

There is a huge problem with undereducation in the Moslem world, and fundamentalism is on the rise - this is a very unfortunate combination.

Fundamentalism and Islam are not synonyms though.

Plenty of the bible belt yook-a-doodle-dang-meteeth-gotstuckinmeisister'sbumbecausewedoittoomuchwitheachother-yaahoos in the South of US and elsewhere in the Christian world are fundamentalists as well.

Fundamentalism = believing that everything in the [insert name of Holy Scripture] is *literally* true and should be followed to the letter.

The problem is that the Torah, Bible and Koran are getting OLD. They are not always clear and to the point, the Koran maybe being the most cryptic. Also, there's a Siam Square size body of literature with interpretations of the scriptures and the traditions (mainly as regards Judaism and Islam) to be considered.

To sum it up, if you have more education than the rest, the powers of persuation and a will to power, you can dominate the less educated and make them blow up your enemies. This is not a good thing.

[Up2U]

Let Thaksin do what Gaddafi does in Libya - every Muslim 'freedom fighter' that returns from training abroad is met at the airport by security people and never seen again.

Despite being a state where Islam is the recognised religion of 99.9% of the population, he has no problems in that direction. He has survived many attempts on his life from American-sponsored 'patriotic' groups, however.

I do not think, it is possible to compare Thaksin of Thailand with Muammar Abu Minyar al-QADHAFI of Libya.

A funny view of this problem....

Johann

I was just suggesting a solution - effective in another country.

And Muammar is regarded in S.P.L.A.J. in much the same way as Toxin is here - most of the population revere him as a successful man, some despise him as an unfeeling despot.

(But only Gaddhafi was put in power by the CIA)(Who realised their mistake too late )

[GuestHouse]

Meadish,

The difference between the Islam and practiced Islam is that practiced Islam is being constantly controlled.

This cannot be said of the Christian faith, or indeed Judaism.

For example

Sharia Law.

This is an interpretation of the Koran, it is not the word of Alah, it is an interpretation of the word of Alah.

That interpretation took place centuries ago, and yet the Sharia law is held up by Muslims (some very well educated muslims too) as the final word.

It is not the final word, it is just the first interpretation.

You cite the Christian wrongs of the Crusades and the Inquisition, but disregard that fact that Christian faith has moved on. It has asked questions of itself and adapted to the modern era.

For example.

Christian groups today are marching and campaigning against the war in Iraq, they are pleading for reason and compassion, openly in the press, in churches and in political circles.

The war is not being waged on behalf of Christianity but Christians are campaiging against the war on the basis of Christian values.

Where are the Muslim protesters, not the ones that protest against the war, the ones that protest against murder in the name of their faith?

They are not to be seen.

Go get a copy of "The Trouble With Islam" by Irshad Manji ISBN 0-312-32699-8

Read it and listen to the arguments.

Islam is not a faith of violence, but it has been hijack by men of violence and intolerance and the Muslim world keeps quiet about it.

All this talk about Jihad

No more the talk about "Itjihad".

[Boon Mee]

Well, tell that to that Dr Ismail Lutfi in that fancy new school down south...

[Yohan]

Yohan,

To understand the light in which Islam views Christianity, read 'The Pact of Umar" forced on Christians at the point of a sword during the hight of the Muslim empire it defines the basis of what many Muslims regards as Christian rights in the Muslim world.

Guesthouse,

I think, you really do not know about the history of the 'Pact of Umar' - so let us take a look to the archives of the New York City Jesuit University (Fordham)

After the rapid expansion of the Muslim dominion in the 7th century, Muslims leaders were required to work out a way of dealing with Non-Muslims, who remained in the majority in many areas for centuries. The solution was to develop the notion of the "dhimma", or "protected person". The Dhimmi were required to pay an extra tax, but usually they were unmolested. This compares well with the treatment meted out to non-Christians in Christian Europe.

Yes, the Christians had similar regulations in their occupied areas, when dealing with Non-Christians.....

The pact, which was in fact surrender and capitulation of the Syrian Christians, who lost the war and were asking for peace and mercy, sent a letter to Umar ibn al-Khatta, the pact of Umar was not written by the Moslems, but by the Christians..

Umar ibn al-Khittab replied: Sign what they ask, but add two clauses and impose them in addition to those which they have undertaken. They are: "They shall not buy anyone made prisoner by the Muslims," and "Whoever strikes a Muslim with deliberate intent shall forfeit the protection of this pact."

from Al-Turtushi, Siraj al-Muluk, pp. 229-230.

Islamic History Class at the University of Edinburgh in 1979.

The Pact of Umar became famous and was used as a sample for similar situations in the Arab world for centuries, it helped the non-Muslims, who lost the battles against the Moslems with easier feelings to surrender and to avoid massakers.

Islam's policy toward pagans; pagans had it even worse, they were forcibly converted at the point of a sword. If they refused they were murdered.

Christians and Jews were never forced at the point of the sword to convert to Islam.

They had the choice to pay high taxes, but remain unharmed - or to convert to Islam.

Only pagans were forced to convert to Islam (mostly in Africa) ....it is similar to the Christians, when they entered America or other territories to promote the Christian religion among pagans...

Sorry, your interpretation of the Pact of Umar is not correct. Please check again reliable sources of history.

Johann