Obstetrician / Baby Doctor & Hospitals...

[scottie]

Morning all from UK,

just found out recently my wife going to have a baby (HELP!) and due to timings (or lack of! ha ha) she may be in Chiang mai for run up & birth itself.

Any help out there regarding a really good hospital, with English speaking doctors etc.

Obviously it's a worry, but looks like being unavoidable, the fact we'll be in Thailand.

Any advice etc. also much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Scottie

[p1p]

Many congratulations on the good news.

The hospital is not quite as important as the Obstretrician. We followed ours as he moved between hospitals and were very happy indeed with his care and attention to details.

(Can't remember his name, but will re-post and let you know where he can be found now.)

Many congratulations again and good luck

[p1p]

The Obstretrician is Dr. Wirat Charoenkiat and we believe he is now at the Chiang Mai Ram 1 Hospital. He has a clinic near to Changpuak Gate and is widely regarded as possibly the best "ladies-with-babies" doctor in Chiang Mai.

[scottie]

Many thanks for your kind words P1P.

I'm still in a bit of a daze to be honest.

Anything, anything at all you can think of we'd be very grateful.

Likewise......when my head's calmed down a bit I'll be coming up with other

queries people may be able to help us with.

Cheers

Scottie

[chanchao]

Congratulations from me too!!!

In general I don't think you can go really wrong with Ram hospital. Not the cheapest, but that may be a secondary consideration. Also heard good things about a babies doctor at Lanna Hospital. Was a long time ago, so maybe she/he moved to another hospital. I still like Lanna though, for being a solid fair priced professional place. There are MANY hospitals in Chiang Mai, quite a few are commercial operations that look like 4 star hotels. Waiing staff when you come in and all. I seriously don't need that. On the other end of the scale, I also don't need a place resembling a zoo or a bus-station at best. (Suan Dok... though being a university government hospital, there ARE some excellent doctors there. Problem is getting to them. ;-)

Cheers,

Chanchao

[francois]

some more congratulations

we did follow a doctor called "Mo Yaho" since sometime already.

she has a clinic down chottana Rd on the same side that teachers college, but some 150mtrs from the traffic light of the super-highway.

A real nice lady, a real good doctor, we did not need any echo, sonar stuff as she told us the baby was ok and at 5 month she told us that we might have a girl ...

then our daughter was born healthy and naturaly, no surgery or anything of this kind.

she is working at Ruampath hospital near ChiangMai gate.

price of all, room and care around 10,000 baths

may be this is the same lady chanchao talks about, she is in her 50's or so.

and as I understood, she teaches also at CMU.

hope it helps a bit

francois

[Ajarn]

In general I don't think you can go really wrong with Ram hospital.

I beg to differ. There are plenty of ways to go wrong at Ram. Don't ever assume good care in any Thai hospital, is my advice.....And I have numerous examples of 'why', including half a dozen at Ram1 hospital itself. Just because a place is clean and the nurses beautiful ( ) is no reason to assume the medical care is good....

As far as Suan Dawk goes, if I ever have another medical emergency, I'll choose Suan Dawk. Besides being a teaching hospital with a higher level of accountability than I've seen in private hospitals, and with every one of high-tech devices available in Thailand, doctors are all up on the latest news in everything, unlike at least some of the doctors at Ram, in my experience. Imagine telling a diabetic that a blood glucose level of 'about 200' is normal...90-120 is normal, over 140, and damage is being done. A 200 bg level will shorten your life considerably.

Or how about a Ram doctor suggesting a new drug to his heart patient, then failing to inform his patient when he (the doctor) received notice from the drug company that recent studies are showing the mortality rate among users of this medication is higher than non-users, and advising doctors to immediately notify their patients to cease using the drug. The patient only got the news when he went into the hospital with chest pains..."Sorry, I forgot to call you"

And the list goes on and on.....All personal experiences.

Please, don't completely trust any hospital or medical provider here. Confirm anything serious with another doctor. Ask questions, don't assume the doctor will be telling you anything. Do your homework. I learned that my best defence against bad medicine is the internet...Research your health issues and medication. On the internet, there are thousands of people with exactly the same problems, discussing these issues in newsgroups. Be proactive.

I learned the hard way. I hope you don't, too

By the way, for a good GP, I suggest Dr. Narong Lao at Chiang Mai Ram 2. Best GP I've found so far.

[cmsoulbrother]

Ajarn's experiences underly the fact that it is always wise to be an informed participant in any medical situation.

My wife had our son at Ram1. The delivery was normal so I thankfully cannot comment on any emergency care, but the level of regular care and attention was impressive. My wie especially commented on the delicious meals...It's unusual for someone to miss hospital food after getting home!

Anyways, the bill for a c section, three nights, medicine etc all included was 25 000.

Good luck

[p1p]

I reiterate my advice to go for the best-recommended doctor and worry less about the hospital.

Unfortunately Ajarn had bad experience with one, incompetent doctor. This should not have any bearing on the suitability of the hospital as an institution.

In Thailand levels of ability and diligence vary wildly from person to person. This is true amongst those who hold your life in their hands as much as any other sector of society. It is sad but many have risen well beyond their levels of competence and Thai interpersonal relations make it very hard to remove them.

Ask for, and follow recommendations.

[Ajarn]

I reiterate my advice to go for the best-recommended doctor and worry less about the hospital.

Unfortunately Ajarn had bad experience with one, incompetent doctor. This should not have any bearing on the suitability of the hospital as an institution.

.

Please! It sounds like you are discounting my experience...

We are not talking about someplace to buy a hamburger ...This is your life!! And there are PLENTY of reasons to be extremely careful.

And it's NOT simply one doctor. As I clearly stated, there are many such experiences with many such doctors. And if incompetent doctors doesn't give one cause to question other aspects of their facility, then I'd say that person is foolish.

But, even fools get lucky sometimes.

As I said, cleaniless and beautiful nurses don't guarantee quality. Thailand is full of such bogus facades. I still go to Ram 1 sometimes, but I don't go in clueless anymore, as before. I've learned the hard way. I do my research, including talking to others, and any meds are carefully researched on the internet before I take them. Any advice is taken with a grain of salt and, if questionable, I take the steps to verify or deny my concerns. Experience has shown that had I simply listened to what my doctor said, and followed all their advice, I'd be dead. Really. On likely more than one occasion, too.....

I'd say I probably have a lot more experience with Thai doctors and hospitals than anyone in this forum. Ignore my ranting at your peril. I've had good experiences, too, just like most of you....But, I also know the other side, the side most of you haven't seen, and hopefully won't. If I didn't give a shit, I'd just keep quiet, but the issue of safe and good medical care is way too serious to discount what ANYBODY says.

Again, my advice is: Please, don't completely trust any hospital or medical provider here. Confirm anything serious with another doctor. Ask questions, don't assume the doctor will be telling you anything. Do your homework. I learned that my best defence against bad medicine is the internet...Research your health issues and medication. On the internet, there are thousands of people with exactly the same problems, discussing these issues in newsgroups. Be proactive. TIT.

[chanchao]

As it happens I may find myself seeking a good obsterician/hospital in the near future... Just last Saturday I went again to Suan Dok hospital, a friend of my girlfriend recommended a doctor there, and it kind of sounded to me like this was like a proper clinic that just happened to be located at the Suan Dok compound. (This would not be inconcevable, there's a dental clinic there opposite the entrance to Wat Suan Dok that's great, inexpensive and professional) So I thought: might as well check it out...

Ugh. I'm not in doubt that the best doctors work there.. but how on earth do you get to one and get one to make enough time for you.. It's an F'ing zoo there! Where do you even park your car there? Then wait in between what seems like hundreds of terminally ill rural folks trying to find someone who can tell you where to even register. (Also, I totally understand that someone who looks like he's dieing on the spot needs more urgent attention than just a woman suspected of being pregnant, but I prefer my hospitals not to look like the old Mor Chit bus station.

Again, no bad word about the doctors there, but this is NOT a hospital that your average expat would be comfortable seeking service there unless he/she really knows who to talk to and where to go.

So while still trying to find a parking spot, I got a call from my girlfriend saying she was totally lost, with nobody to even tell her where to register so we got the ***F*** out of there. Imagine this being something urgent! I don't envy those rural & hilltribe folks having to go to Suan Dok.

We then drove to Lanna hospital, which was rather busy as well, but registered, got to see a doctor, had tests done and were out of there in an hour or so with the bill coming to 240 baht, and the friendly advice to let nature run it's course if there are no symptoms beyond the usual throwing up and stuff, and received some info booklets and the basic general advice that we mostly knew of course but was nice to hear anyway.

[Also the doctor did not prescribe any medication, which in Thailand deserves an honourable mention as many Thai people EXPECT medication, no matter what, even if it's a totally normal condition that nature will take care of all by itself. Quite a few doctors in this country know this and just prescribe something colorful to make the patient happy, thus purporting the tradition of patients feeling that a doctor visit is not complete without some colorful pills to swallow. Think about it, how often you went to see a doctor and ended up with 3 different kinds of pills, one of which being regular paracetamols that you already have a whole jar full of at home]

Anyway, I will follow up on p1p's advice and go see Dr. Wirat at Ram 1. Or at his clinic and perhaps save some baht.. Do you know where exactly his clinic is near Chang Phuak? On Chang Phuak / Chotana road or on Maneenopparat (along the moat)?

Cheers,

Chanchao

[Ajarn]

[Also the doctor did not prescribe any medication, which in Thailand deserves an honourable mention as many Thai people EXPECT medication, no matter what, even if it's a totally normal condition that nature will take care of all by itself.  Quite a few doctors in this country know this and just prescribe something colorful to make the patient happy, thus purporting the tradition of patients feeling that a doctor visit is not complete without some colorful pills to swallow. Think about it, how often you went to see a doctor and ended up with 3 different kinds of pills, one of which being regular paracetamols that you already have a whole jar full of at home]

Hey, congrats on the kid, Chanchao!

Excellent point about the medicine....I've seen many of these types of clinics...One clinic in Songkhla my wife used to go to (like many Thais, she went to the clinic at the drop of a hat.) had three big glass jars on the front counter, half full of pills. One pink, one blue, one red.....No drug names on the bottle, or written on the little bag the pills are handed out in...

If it was just paracetimol in those jars, I wouldn't have worried, but anti-biotics are still standard fare at most clinics, and this clinic simply ignored my requests to write the name of the drug they were dispensing on the little bag- no doubt to try to guarantee that the patients only buy their meds at the clinic, and many clinics actually manufacture (illegaly) their own pills to stuff in those jars...

And, of course, you're right about the Zoo at Suan Dawk

But.....If you come in through emergency (with a real emergency!), you'll find a different scenario, in my experience. Like I said, it's my choice in the event of a serious emergency. But. I wouldn't go there for a cold...

The other big government hospital is Nakornping Hospital out on Chotana road, just past city hall. Still a similar scene as Suan Dawk, but it's not easy for any hospital to successfully deal with literaly thousands of patients per day....Reports I've heard from aquaintences say that the quality is generaly good. The also have some very innovative pediatric programs, from what I've heard.

[cutethaigirl]

Chanchao

Trouble booking Air Asia.....

Trouble at Suan Duak......

Jai yen yen man

Scottie

Can recommend an excellent place that is a bit off the 'foreigner' trail and not high profile like Ram.

Many of the Staff that you would encounter speak English. All md cons and NOT afraid to offer advice rather than dish out pills.

3 day stay and natural birth plus a few tests for stuff beyond me was under 20K. Plus gave a quote BEFOREHAND. Ram has a habit of exceeding those.

Lanna .. went there with three dog bites. You have insurance? Yes ok bill 10,500. The place i am talking about above said not more than 2000 for traetment and rabies injection course! Knowledge is a great thing huh:-)

CT

[Snark]

My congratulations as well!

If I may, just a little sound advice. Giving birth need not involve the medical profession at all. PLEASE, approach the obstetrician as you would approach a partner in a business deal. You work with them, trusting them. Do not go shopping for a hospital but find someone who you feel you can trust.

As well, assume responsibility yourselves. While the average birth is not a medical crisis, it is a physical and mental ordeal for both parents. A time to reassert your love and affection, and very much so a time for Mom to 'get in shape' with Dad strongly supporting her. With sound medical advice and this effort given to unity of the couple in the upcoming endeavor, all will go much more smoothly.

Many couples these days opt to use a midwife and not go the baby production line route of the hospital. This is in fact a healthy sensible way to go quite often. Do not however discount modern medical procedures that can foresee potential problems and complications. Know your options.

May I suggest http://www.pregnancy-info.net/ for a lot of very helpful information. You might also wish to read about Dr. Leboyer and birth without violence which you can find on that web site as well.

My very best to you both.