Filing Vat And Withholding Tax For Free!

[junkofdavid2]

Hi!

Accounting firms will charge as much as 4,000 THB per month to file and pay your withholding tax and Vat.

This is not a bad amount if you have a medium sized company with many transactions.

However, in a company like mine which issues maybe one receipt a month to Clients and only has a few receipts from very few suppliers, it doesn't seem worth it.. considering that all it really is, is a "fill in the blanks" form where you state your Vat sales and Vat expenses (Form P.P.30) and write your Net vat payable. And it's also a fill in the blanks form for withholding tax (Forms PND 53 and/or PND 03).

Supposedly, you can fill these up yourself (if you read and write Thai) and submit it to the Revenue Dept. together with your cheque payment.

So, does anyone here know how to do it?

Is it easy if you don't have many transactions?

On which item numbers on PP30 do you write down your gross vat sales, and on which item numbers do you write your input VAT expenses? On what item number do you write your Net vat payable?

Which item numbers are for what on the PND03 and PND 53 (for withholding tax)?

Sorry, I don't read and write Thai, but I already know how to fill out my own withholding tax certificate (given to my suppliers) by "memorizing" which items pertain to what...

Any comment on PP30, PND03, and PND53?

Cheers!

Edited February 8, 2007 by junkofdavid2

[rogerinthai]

Hi!

Accounting firms will charge as much as 4,000 THB per month to file and pay your withholding tax and Vat.

This is not a bad amount if you have a medium sized company with many transactions.

Not exactly. If you have hundreds of transactions you will probably pay more.

Supposedly, you can fill these up yourself (if you read and write Thai) and submit it to the Revenue Dept. together with your cheque payment.

So, does anyone here know how to do it?

Is it easy if you don't have many transactions?

PND3 and PND 53 are very easy for any Thai who knows how to read and write and had half an hour of training from an accountant or someone who knows how to do it. PP30 is a bit more tricky but still doable.

Sorry, I don't read and write Thai, but I already know how to fill out my own withholding tax certificate (given to my suppliers) by "memorizing" which items pertain to what...

I suggest you get the forms translated once, then maybe ask an accountant who is fluent in English to advice you once how to do it.

Or if you don't have anyone that will help with that, and don't want to pay for the advise, you can just go to the Revenue Department and ask them to explain it to you. May not be an easy experience, but I am sure you will learn something!

[trd]

Unfortunately whether you can fill out vat forms yourself is irrelevant. If you have a Thai company as I have, you are obliged by law to hire a CPA qualified accountant so there's no way of avoiding the monthly fee. I also have very few transactions and negotiated down from 4,000 to 3,000 baht a month. Shop around for the yearly auditor's fee based on the amount of paperwork you have. I pay 12,000 baht.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Unfortunately whether you can fill out vat forms yourself is irrelevant. If you have a Thai company as I have, you are obliged by law to hire a CPA qualified accountant so there's no way of avoiding the monthly fee. I also have very few transactions and negotiated down from 4,000 to 3,000 baht a month. Shop around for the yearly auditor's fee based on the amount of paperwork you have. I pay 12,000 baht.

Our professional fee is 1,000 Baht per month for withholding tax and Social Fund filing. (Up to 50 transactions in a month)

For Vat, our professional fee is 1,500 Baht per month. (up to 50 transactions in a month)

For the Audit, the fee starts at 13,000 Baht. Most SME pay this amt. For clients with many transactions, it is more.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[rogerinthai]

Unfortunately whether you can fill out vat forms yourself is irrelevant. If you have a Thai company as I have, you are obliged by law to hire a CPA qualified accountant so there's no way of avoiding the monthly fee.

First time I heard of that. Please point us to the law that requires that. There are plenty of companies that don't hire accountants for the monthly accounting. AFAIK, the only time you must use a professional is with the yearly Audit.

[rogerinthai]

For the Audit, the fee starts at 13,000 Baht. Most SME pay this amt. For clients with many transactions, it is more.

Audit fees with good and reliable Auditors starts at 9,000 baht, and that's for a company that had around a hundred transactions a month, stock records, VAT registered, several employees, fixed assets with depreciation, etc, etc. Not a company with minimal activity.

[trd]

Unfortunately whether you can fill out vat forms yourself is irrelevant. If you have a Thai company as I have, you are obliged by law to hire a CPA qualified accountant so there's no way of avoiding the monthly fee.

First time I heard of that. Please point us to the law that requires that. There are plenty of companies that don't hire accountants for the monthly accounting. AFAIK, the only time you must use a professional is with the yearly Audit.

Go to http://www.dbd.go.th/index_en3.phtml

It's in there somewhere. The reference is in the Accounting Act of 2000 which states that a Thai company must appoint a licensed CPA accountant for ongoing admin and submission of monthly returns.

[trd]

Here's the document.

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/account/ac_act.phtml

[Cyberstar]

Here's the document.

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/account/ac_act.phtml

Did you read it yourself? ... The document is totally void of any reference to filings of vat and withholding tax.

[rogerinthai]

Here's the document.

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/account/ac_act.phtml

Please quote the relevant paragraph/s which states that a Thai company must appoint a licensed CPA accountant for submission of monthly returns.

[trd]

Section 19. The person having the duty to keep accounts must provide the bookkeeper possessing the qualifications prescribed by the Director-General under Section 7(6) to keep accounts under this Act, and shall have the power to control and supervise the bookkeeper to keep accounts accurately and correctly under this Act.

I think it concerns this paragraph. Accounts have to be kept by a qualified person. Let me dig deeper. As usual the words are often one thing but interpretation is another.

[trd]

So what's Sunbelt Asia's take on this. I know you want the business, but can you give an ubiased view.

[trd]

Here's the document.

http://www.dbd.go.th/eng/account/ac_act.phtml

Please quote the relevant paragraph/s which states that a Thai company must appoint a licensed CPA accountant for submission of monthly returns.

Can I ask you. Do you actually personally know anyone with a Thai company who does not employ either a qualified accountant or book keeper to submit monthly returns, but does it themselves. That would include VAT returns, withholding tax forms and payments to the Revenue department and Social Security payments, That about covers monthly obligations.

[rogerinthai]

Can I ask you. Do you actually personally know anyone with a Thai company who does not employ either a qualified accountant or book keeper to submit monthly returns, but does it themselves. That would include VAT returns, withholding tax forms and payments to the Revenue department and Social Security payments, That about covers monthly obligations.

Yes, I do. In addition, in my company, my Thai staff (who had no training in accounting whatsoever,) used to process and submit w/t tax forms (they are really easy - you need to w/h 3% for service, 5% for rent, 2% for advertisment, 1% for trasnpotation - EASY), the social security payments (how hard is it to w/h 5% from the salary? with a cap of 750 baht? and same from the employer - EASY) and salaries (PND1 - you hust need to verify once what is the tax you pay for your salary and that's it!). I could have done it myself if forced to, without being able to read Thai, but I had a full time Thai staff for administration, so she did it.

We only used an accountant for the bookKeeping and the VAT returns (which are a bit more tricky as they require month to month accumulation), to make sure everything is in order for the yearly Audit. In retrospect, with a bit more effort we could have given that a miss as well and save around 40,000-50,000 baht a year.

Edited February 9, 2007 by rogerinthai

[trd]

We only used an accountant for the bookKeeping and the VAT returns (which are a bit more tricky as they require month to month accumulation), to make sure everything is in order for the yearly Audit. In retrospect, with a bit more effort we could have given that a miss as well and save around 40,000-50,000 baht a year.

I'm still being advised by my accountant (I just received an email from her in response to my question) that it is a requirement. She quoted Chapter 9 Section 2 as the relevant reference. You could take the view that I am not getting an unbiased opinion because she is protecting her business interests. You will be all too familiar with how laws can be on the statute book but not necessarily enforced until some point in the future. Take the current issues concerning the Foreign Business act as regards Thai nominees for example. Appreciate your comments, but I still feel that I haven't received a definitive answer by reading the act. A not entirely unusual experience in Thailand!!!

[Cyberstar]

Another edge could be to ask: What papers does the accountant sign? Rather unlikely that papers, not signed by a certified accountant, need to have passed through the hands of a certified accountant ... Around here she signs nothing but the audit papers.

[rogerinthai]

You will be all too familiar with how laws can be on the statute book but not necessarily enforced until some point in the future. Take the current issues concerning the Foreign Business act as regards Thai nominees for example. Appreciate your comments, but I still feel that I haven't received a definitive answer by reading the act. A not entirely unusual experience in Thailand!!!

I took the path of going "by the book" as much as possible, but looking backwards, the approach of "when in doubt, spend more money and be on the safe side" seems to fit those who supply those services more than anyone else.