Farang Xenophobes

[Jet Gorgon]

This is a sidebar to Mr Pilchard's "Cultural Cringe".

I've seen this many times in Thailand among the expat community. When hearing my accent, Europeans and Brits often castigate me in the stupid Yank category, and until folks get to know me, they often treat me with disdain. One Brit advised to hire "this Canadian chick" for freelance work, laughed heartily upon meeting me in the flesh. He said he was expecting a fat, ugly, loud feminist.

I find the dislike between many foreign nationals is alive and well in Thailand. Seems strange to me, as I like to meet and talk with people (except Canadian flag bearers). There are boors, jerks, snobs, and shysters from every country, but also some really lovely folks. My farang pals include Brits, Germans, Swiss, Americans, French, Aussies, Japanese, Scots... Gay and straight. Girls and boys. Common bonds: drinking, dogs, neighbourhood, laughs. A little family. We all drink together, along with Thai friends, throw impromptu BBQs and chatter about the world. If anyone has a prob, someone can fix it. If anyone obnoxious tries to join us, I tell them I am related to George dubbleya, lay on the southern accent and spout the benefits of US policies and practices in the world. They laugh or leave.

Do you have preconceptions of farang from countries other than your own?

Edited February 8, 2007 by Jet Gorgon

[Grover]

I might feel sorry for an Iraqi or Palestinian, but thats about it. At least thats what I tell myself although I probably have all sorts of preconceptions lurking beneath I am unwilling to admit/be aware of.

laughed heartily upon meeting me in the flesh. He said he was expecting a fat, ugly, loud feminist.

huh? so does that mean you're a slim, beautiful, soft spoken anti-feminist?

wow!

[sutnyod]

It depends.

I shun the bully farang, screaming at taxi drivers or others they consider under-dogs. I also shun the Jesuit-farang who likes to dwell in his/her sufferings here, but does not want to do anything about it. The red flag goes up when I see a naked and drunk (or deranged) farang staggering towards me.

During my line of work I (fortunately) come across farangs that are okay and very interesting people.

[endure]

I judge the people that I meet as individuals. I don't understand how people can have preconceived ideas about a whole nation.

[davidjtayler]

I judge the people that I meet as individuals. I don't understand how people can have preconceived ideas about a whole nation.

I can only agree with Endure again here ... being a relaxed sort of guy I like meeting everyone, wherever I am, and most people are pretty chilled when you sit down and have a yarn and a beer together.

[Jet Gorgon]

I might feel sorry for an Iraqi or Palestinian, but thats about it. At least thats what I tell myself although I probably have all sorts of preconceptions lurking beneath I am unwilling to admit/be aware of.

laughed heartily upon meeting me in the flesh. He said he was expecting a fat, ugly, loud feminist.

huh? so does that mean you're a slim, beautiful, soft spoken anti-feminist?

wow!

Always been slim (swimming, high metabolism); beautiful is Rita Hayworth, I'm more of a gamin girl; soft spoken but occasionally sharp; anti-feminist? No classifications, just a person of the world.

And what's with you, Grovie? Having an identity crisis? That's three avatars in as many weeks. You wanna talk about it off line?

[Grover]

I judge the people that I meet as individuals.

Good point endure, and I agree with that line of thinking.

And what's with you, Grovie? Having an identity crisis? That's three avatars in as many weeks. You wanna talk about it off line?

Identity crisis? yes. but I think ill stick with this freakish looking one for awhile, at least a couple of months.

[PhilHarries]

I like to think that on first contact I instinctively treat all people with respect and in the manner I would like to be treated myself.

Having said that, first impressions are both a useful guide and a minefield. Many people I have disliked at first turned out to be great friends and vice versa. But when I meet and talk to people my demeanour is not, conciously, affected by their nationality as that attribute is becoming less and less relevant in today's global village. It is not important where you come from for that is in the past. It is who you are, where you are and where you're going that is important.

I think my attitude has mellowed over the years I have been working in the oil and gas industry. My current project has a Vietnamese client, predominantly British PMC team and the engineering being performed in four operating centres in Paris, Madrid, Yokohama and here in KL. Other sub-op centres are in Yokohama, UK, India and Venezuela. In such an environment there is no place for rabid nationalism, if you can't get on with other cultures you are in the wrong business.

Anyway I can't see what place foreign nationalism has in Thailand. All of us farangs are the same, foreigners in a foreign land, we walked away from our homeland either temporarily or permanently when we passed outbound through passport control.

Oh but I forget, the reason we all are leaving the UK is there are too many blaahhddy foreigners moving in aint there?

[terry57]

I might feel sorry for an Iraqi or Palestinian, but thats about it. At least thats what I tell myself although I probably have all sorts of preconceptions lurking beneath I am unwilling to admit/be aware of.

laughed heartily upon meeting me in the flesh. He said he was expecting a fat, ugly, loud feminist.

huh? so does that mean you're a slim, beautiful, soft spoken anti-feminist?

wow!

Always been slim (swimming, high metabolism); beautiful is Rita Hayworth, I'm more of a gamin girl; soft spoken but occasionally sharp; anti-feminist? No classifications, just a person of the world.

And what's with you, Grovie? Having an identity crisis? That's three avatars in as many weeks. You wanna talk about it off line?

classic reply jet and your just getting better all the time.

[jdinasia]

It depends! On the trips to Pattaya etc I try hard to avoid the tourists etc and try to keep closer to my friends that are locals!! However most of the time I enjoy meeting new people from anywhere!

[Prakanong]

I am with PhilHarries here

I work in a true multi-national team here in Asia nad cover the region but in a world-wide organisation

While some bits of national stereotyping does happen (mainly when something goes wrong - bad time to do it though they do all seem to get along great - when we have our yearly parties (ooops sorry conference) its great to see everyone mixing together.

Living in Singapore I have friends of many nationalities and races - I really enjoy it here (up to now) more than anywhere else I have lived and that includes Thailand (which I never thought I would)

[November Rain]

He said he was expecting a fat, ugly, loud feminist.

Jet, sweetie, you really are going to have to stop taking people's comments so literally! "I expected a fat, ugly, loud feminist" is actually polite Brit-speak for "I didn't expect a 99 year old woman with writhing snakes instead of hair, and exactly why is it dangerous to look you full in the face??"

I am xenophobic against all those foreign tourists who walk through the center of Hua Hin in just bikinis, or with their shirts off exposing a variety of body types & body hair. I'm also xenophobic against those who visit temples in beachwear, those who refuse to take their shoes off in a place where everyone else has left their's outside the door & those who will quite happily sit above a Thai with their feet dangling inches from his head. I see those people, I judge them and I make no apologies for it. Just like they make no apologies for neither learning about nor caring about the culture of the place they visit.

[kmart]

I'm happy to say that I hate everybody equally. My misanthropic world view is not tempered by race, religion, creed, or colour. Or sex.

Have a nice day, y'all.

[keenok]

This is a sidebar to Mr Pilchard's "Cultural Cringe".

I've seen this many times in Thailand among the expat community. When hearing my accent, Europeans and Brits often castigate me in the stupid Yank category, and until folks get to know me, they often treat me with disdain. One Brit advised to hire "this Canadian chick" for freelance work, laughed heartily upon meeting me in the flesh. He said he was expecting a fat, ugly, loud feminist.

I find the dislike between many foreign nationals is alive and well in Thailand. Seems strange to me, as I like to meet and talk with people (except Canadian flag bearers). There are boors, jerks, snobs, and shysters from every country, but also some really lovely folks. My farang pals include Brits, Germans, Swiss, Americans, French, Aussies, Japanese, Scots... Gay and straight. Girls and boys. Common bonds: drinking, dogs, neighbourhood, laughs. A little family. We all drink together, along with Thai friends, throw impromptu BBQs and chatter about the world. If anyone has a prob, someone can fix it. If anyone obnoxious tries to join us, I tell them I am related to George dubbleya, lay on the southern accent and spout the benefits of US policies and practices in the world. They laugh or leave.

Do you have preconceptions of farang from countries other than your own?

i think most of us do to some extent (including yourself with the canadian flag bearers) i personally do not mix much with farang since moving to pattaya. i did mix more when i lived in bangkok. my preconceptions are much more justified here i find,than they were in bangkok.i will be a happy man when i can move back.

[Jet Gorgon]

Kya kya kya. Oh, I figured I knew Brit speak, NR.

Agree with you on the ill-mannered farang front. I was aiming this post more at people who, for example, refuse to go to a German bar, or a Brit or French restaurant or to talk with a national from a country they have a previously ingrained dislike of. The longer I'm overseas (half of my life), the better I like sharing a really good laugh with people when we cannot really speak each others' languages. Good hearts and clean humour have no cultural or linguistic divides.

[PeaceBlondie]

I try to ignore the nationality, because usually it doesn't mean much. Actual behavior that's presented, or obvious ideas that are stated, can give me an avoidance reaction. I'm sure I come on too strong, too verbose and opinionated, sometimes, and that scares some farang away. Most folks don't become friends because they don't have particular things in common: sports, hobbies, politics, family background, etc.

But if this is just another discussion to slag off various nationalities, I'm outa here.

[lannarebirth]

Do you have preconceptions of farang from countries other than your own?

I wish I didn't, but I'm afraid I do. 30 years ago, when I began my travelling life, Brits used to be some of the best company I would come across. Now, from many personal experiences, I don't find many that aren't trying to get over on you. Obnoxious, violent drunks and classist snobs for the most part. I know that's strong and a generalization, but it's my experience all the same. It's not my intent to flame the Brits, I'm sure many or even most are very good. I just haven't met them.

Edited February 9, 2007 by lannarebirth

[kmart]

Do you have preconceptions of farang from countries other than your own?

I wish I didn't, but I'm afraid I do. 30 years ago, when I began my travelling life, Brits used to be some of the best company I would come across. Now, from many personal experiences, I don't find many that aren't trying to get over on you. Obnoxious, violent drunks and classist snobs for the most part. I know that's strong and a generalization, but it's my experience all the same. It's not my intent to flame the Brits, I'm sure many or even most are very good. I just haven't met them.

This is quite true, i'm ashamed to say. For the most part, the professional expat guys who work here and around this part of the world with legit jobs are still generally a great bunch. Sadly though, a lot of the yob and criminal classes have seemed to have made the tourist centres of Thailand their dens. After Spain signed extradition treaties...?

Globalisation's down side.

[alexth]

Nationality, skin colour or sex is not something too important for me. Behave like a decent person and you're ok. I might add I hate seeing those drunken farangs, who start bullying everyone around , screaming, shouting, getting their tops off or any kind of indecent behaviour. These can especially be found in Pattaya and most of them are brits, unfortunately.

[Prakanong]

Kya kya kya. Oh, I figured I knew Brit speak, NR.

Agree with you on the ill-mannered farang front. I was aiming this post more at people who, for example, refuse to go to a German bar, or a Brit or French restaurant or to talk with a national from a country they have a previously ingrained dislike of. The longer I'm overseas (half of my life), the better I like sharing a really good laugh with people when we cannot really speak each others' languages. Good hearts and clean humour have no cultural or linguistic divides.

Funny you should say that because its rare i would go to a German bar - its nothing conscious but thinking about it I never do.

I do have German friends - not many but I do - but I think it might be a sub-conscious thing of Brits of my generation - maybe why we find the Fawlty Towers episode so funny.

Funnily enough I spoke with an older German woman in her 50's on the ferry to Batam two weeks ago - we got along fine along with a Singaporean of Indonesian descent - as the boat was pulling in she confided in us bioth she hated the British - I thought this was quite funny at the time as we had got along fine and nothing was said about any contentious issue.

I do think the younger generations are different (well the Germans are)

[Minburi]

Where we live there is not many Farangs and these I do see at Fashion Center, Carrefour and such really have made it not worth it to try and meet or chat with which is sad. I used to try and be polite and just say hello as we do stand out and for the most part and they look at me like I am from some other planet(which is possible I guess) Or i am trying to sell them something(Which I was not) Sigh... I was and still am just trying to be polite and when I say good morning or hello/Hi or just nod(Kinda like that driving a v.w bug thing you know where you wave at all these driving V.w`s as its our own little club sorta thing but just put the word Farnag in place of the V.w Bug part) I am not looking to be your best friend(Who knows they could get to like me I do not consider my self that bad a guy though my wife says my humour is warped) Yes I know there could be many reasons why the people do not say hello or nod and such or even smile. But to actually have a few manners would be nice. Am I asking to much?

[PaulUSA302]

When I began to plan my first trip to Thailand, I went to some message boards and asked the people there how black Americans would be treated while there. For the most part, all the advice I received was negative. I was warned that Dark skin was looked down on and I would be looked down on. It was suggested that I would have a difficult time meeting and making friends due to my color.

I was beginning to have second thoughts regarding my visit. Then I got a private e-mail telling me to ignore all the posts I have read. They told me that many Thai do not get to see many black American in flesh and blood. They only see them on TV in sports events, or movies and music videos. He went on to tell me that I may well be treated like a rock star.

On my first day in Bangkok, I was walking around and looking at the wonder of it all, I was stopped many times by locals asking me where I was from, talking to me about my country and a few asked to take my picture with them.

Not only were the Thai people friendly, other Farang were very kind and social. Even when I was in Pattaya, a Austrailian guy quickly stood next to me and his Thai lady took our picture. I did not know what was going on because it happened so fast! I offered him a chance to take a proper picture and he accepted, we took the picture and had a pleasant conversation.

As far as I am concerned, I think Thailand is a great place with some of the kindest people I have ever met.

I will admit that I try not to meet too many Farang. Not because I am anti Farang.... I find that most farang I meet are residents of Thailand and tend to want to take up to much of my limited time in Thailand. I can understand the thrill of meeting a new friendly stranger who can communicate with them in their native language but for us guys only in Thailand for a few weeks.... Well.... We came to Thailand for the Thai people and Culture and spending too much time with another Farang can be fun but it is not the fun we came for.

Edited February 9, 2007 by PaulUSA302

[gisele]

Where we live there is not many Farangs and these I do see at Fashion Center, Carrefour and such really have made it not worth it to try and meet or chat with which is sad. I used to try and be polite and just say hello as we do stand out and for the most part and they look at me like I am from some other planet(which is possible I guess) Or i am trying to sell them something(Which I was not) Sigh... I was and still am just trying to be polite and when I say good morning or hello/Hi or just nod(Kinda like that driving a v.w bug thing you know where you wave at all these driving V.w`s as its our own little club sorta thing but just put the word Farnag in place of the V.w Bug part) I am not looking to be your best friend(Who knows they could get to like me I do not consider my self that bad a guy though my wife says my humour is warped) Yes I know there could be many reasons why the people do not say hello or nod and such or even smile. But to actually have a few manners would be nice. Am I asking to much?

There aren't many farangs where we live either so when we do spot a new specimen we tend to gawk, so today, as we were driving to Tesco, a weekly outing, we saw 2 tourists walking along the main road, how did I know they were tourists you ask?

well, they were shirtless, had very dark tans and were wearing fisherman pants, in Nakhon city this is somewhat of a strange site to see.

Now, to the point of the post, my husband (he is Thai) mentionned how that was not appropriate for the city (he also didn't like the guy's tattoos) and we both tought that we don't care for the look much. I guess we jumped to conclusions since we don't know who they are or where they are from, but appearances are what determines first impressions, in this case, we don't want to hang-out with tatooed and dreadlocked backpacker tourists walking shirtless in the city

[Jet Gorgon]

When I began to plan my first trip to Thailand, I went to some message boards and asked the people there how black Americans would be treated while there. For the most part, all the advice I received was negative. I was warned that Dark skin was looked down on and I would be looked down on. It was suggested that I would have a difficult time meeting and making friends due to my color.

I was beginning to have second thoughts regarding my visit. Then I got a private e-mail telling me to ignore all the posts I have read. They told me that many Thai do not get to see many black American in flesh and blood. They only see them on TV in sports events, or movies and music videos. He went on to tell me that I may well be treated like a rock star.

On my first day in Bangkok, I was walking around and looking at the wonder of it all, I was stopped many times by locals asking me where I was from, talking to me about my country and a few asked to take my picture with them.

Not only were the Thai people friendly, other Farang were very kind and social. Even when I was in Pattaya, a Austrailian guy quickly stood next to me and his Thai lady took our picture. I did not know what was going on because it happened so fast! I offered him a chance to take a proper picture and he accepted, we took the picture and had a pleasant conversation.

As far as I am concerned, I think Thailand is a great place with some of the kindest people I have ever met.

I will admit that I try not to meet too many Farang. Not because I am anti Farang.... I find that most farang I meet are residents of Thailand and tend to want to take up to much of my limited time in Thailand. I can understand the thrill of meeting a new friendly stranger who can communicate with them in their native language but for us guys only in Thailand for a few weeks.... Well.... We came to Thailand for the Thai people and Culture and spending too much time with another Farang can be fun but it is not the fun we came for.

Hey, Paul, glad you had a good time! Sounds like you have a great attitude. Just what is needed in LOS.

[dukkha]

Only foreigners who present with emotional, psychological, financial, ego, psychiatric, relationship, visa, accommodation, alchohol, racist, problems...I think we are all covered as ex-pats.. Dukkha

[maccaroni man]

I'm happy to say that I hate everybody equally. My misanthropic world view is not tempered by race, religion, creed, or colour. Or sex.

Have a nice day, y'all.

here,here

[dumspero]

Just take each person as an individual. Unless thee's a need to stereotype (e.g. picking a jury, betting where someone is from or whatever), stereotypes just rob us of the chance to meet great people.

Jet, it is hard for many to understand, but Americans with Southern accents can be ok, as can the roughly half the registered voters in the US who voted for George Bush. It's amazing to me how certain types of prejudice are acceptable, but not others. Shouldn't we all strive to be intolerant only of the intolerant?

Cheers.

[LaoPo]

Do you have preconceptions of farang from countries other than your own?

No, but I dislike people behaving bad and rude, no matter from which country they are, including my own.

The point is that rude people, behaving badly, attract more attention than the vast majority of nice and kind people and luckily there are much more of those than the first kind.

LaoPo

[terry57]

Just take each person as an individual. Unless thee's a need to stereotype (e.g. picking a jury, betting where someone is from or whatever), stereotypes just rob us of the chance to meet great people.

Jet, it is hard for many to understand, but Americans with Southern accents can be ok, as can the roughly half the registered voters in the US who voted for George Bush. It's amazing to me how certain types of prejudice are acceptable, but not others. Shouldn't we all strive to be intolerant only of the intolerant?

Cheers.

mate i give you top points for that reply,

she's a little ripper.

your quote " shouldnt we all strive to be intolerant only of the intolerant " should be carved in stone and plastered onto the side of the space shuttle.

i think a few posters should take your quote on board.

nice peace of work.

[November Rain]

Just take each person as an individual. Unless thee's a need to stereotype (e.g. picking a jury, betting where someone is from or whatever), stereotypes just rob us of the chance to meet great people.

Jet, it is hard for many to understand, but Americans with Southern accents can be ok, as can the roughly half the registered voters in the US who voted for George Bush. It's amazing to me how certain types of prejudice are acceptable, but not others. Shouldn't we all strive to be intolerant only of the intolerant?

Cheers.

mate i give you top points for that reply,

she's a little ripper.

your quote " shouldnt we all strive to be intolerant only of the intolerant " should be carved in stone and plastered onto the side of the space shuttle.

i think a few posters should take your quote on board.

nice peace of work.

Agree with both of you, but just to nit-pick (as is my wont), that sentence "shouldn't we all strive to be intolerant only of the intolerant" can't work. Firstly, who decides who is intolerant? You or I might think (probably would think!) a racist was intolerant, but to a race supremasist that same racist might be thought of as extremely tolerant because he gets on a bus with others of a different race. Who draws the line?

Secondly, if you are intolerant of the intolerant, then you become one of that maligned and untolerated group. Viscious circle...